LEGSLIP

I disagree about Imran Nazir being axed from the team. Perhaps he should be tried lower down the order in ODI cricket and only as a specialist opener in T20 cricket and nothing else. This must be stressed.

I also would like to see Imran Farhat get another bite of the cherry. He scored a ton in a recent domestic fixture.

In regards to this controversy which has been laid on by Dasti I feel Younis’s reaction was more of emotion then anything. Shahid Afridi was getting popular and PCB were having some big chats with him. Therefore I feel Younis decided to call it day to his captaincy and just put that match fixing accusation as a way of hiding his anger.

Nonetheless, unless the reports are blatant rumours, that Dasti is brainwashed for what he said. It was totally uneducated and unnecessary, shame on him for linking the country’s name in something so disgraceful like match-fixing. What an embarrassment to all fans and players of the game.

Khansahab,why are u so anti-Malik ? Fawad’s time will come……………

Khansahab

For once, this is a pretty passionate post!

Anyway, you have ignored the main culprit, Rana Naved. What has he got to do with Pakistan cricket?

On the other hand, I think in one days, because of the powerplays, Pakistan should take risk with three mercurial players at the top. We have got really good defense in the middle order in Mohd Yousof, Younis Khan, and Fawad Alam, so it would make sense to play aggresive players around them.

Matchfixing allegations are just rubbish. Younis shouldn’t have resigned, however, as he is the best person to captain the team. Younis should take criticism more positively, in that, if he made mistakes as a captain, he should take the criticism to improve as a captain. A fact that is generally ignored is that it was precisely his captaincy which won Pakistan world 20/20– sending Afridi one down, playing Razzaq, removing Butt, and the like (they were all very good decisions). If he resigned because of matchfixing allegations, however, then it is his call, as the allegations are a typical Pakistan reaction in defeat and it is unfortunate that it happens in Pakistan.

Khansahab

Versus West Indies on that seaming wicket he took only 1 wicket. Versus Australia on a very low scoring pitch he took only 1 wicket. He lost the match against NZ, singlehandedly (you have to also consider that when Malik doesn’t perform, it is not equivalent to losing a match by himself= a bowler like Rana can lost a match singlehandedly by his own).

Let me put more sense to the statistics you have put:

33 overs for 164 runs with 4 wickets (most of his wickets were tail-enders). That is a bowling average of more than 40 with an economy rate of around 5….in matches where the oppositions scores were 130-odd for West Indies, 200-odd for Aus, NZ made 232, and India made around 250 (the only match in which a team played 50 overs with an economy rate of 5 was when India made 250 runs). With that Average Rana would take 400 runs to bowl a team out, and he wouldn’t even be able to do that, since his average, because of three tail-enders is inflated. In essence, Rana wouldn’t be able to get 6 top order wickets even after giving away 400 runs, and if there are about 6,7 tail-enders in the team, Rana would get a team out by about 420, 430 runs (that is how the above stats read)…compare this to the average bowler’s bowling in these matches, 200 runs all out (Aus), 130-150 runs (West Indies), 250-odd runs (India), and 232-odd (NZ). What you fail to consider is that he has no wicket-taking ability and with the inability to take wickets, his economy rate is way too high. Also, what needs to be considered is a bowler’s downside, that is, Rana can singlehandedly lose a match, and his upside is much less than that of an average bowler: For Rana it is almost impossible to win a match. He is truly among the worst bowlers in the history of the game and how he can make it in this team is something that baffles me.

Younis resolution likely by Monday

Osman Samiuddin

October 16, 2009

Text size: A | A
An official has revealed that Younis wants the board to announce him captain for longer than just on a series-by-series basis © AFP

Related Links
News : Younis, Butt meet over captaincy rethink
News : PCB chief hopeful of Younis rethink
News : Younis keeps door open for return
Osman Samiuddin : Stupidity of staggering proportions
News : Younis offers to quit as captain
News : Younis to meet Butt next week
News : Younis and Intikhab upset over match-fixing claims

Players/Officials: Ijaz Butt | Younis Khan
Teams: Pakistan

Little clarity has emerged from two key meetings within the Pakistan Cricket Board centering around the future of Younis Khan as captain of Pakistan.

Younis met Ijaz Butt, the PCB chairman, on Thursday in Lahore and Butt then presided over a meeting on Friday with the chairman of selectors, Iqbal Qasim, the coach Intikhab Alam, the team manager Yawar Saeed, associate manager Shafqat Rana, and the team’s vice-captain Shahid Afridi. Younis had been invited, but had informed the chairman that he would not be able to make it.

The PCB was unwilling to make any official comment on the conclusions of either meeting, save to say that a final announcement will be made “in the next couple of days.” That is likely to be on Monday, after Butt meets the PCB governing board and discusses the matter with them as well. “We will make an announcement soon,” Butt told Cricinfo. “I will not comment on either meeting but will say only that today’s meeting was a regular debriefing of the kind we hold after big series and tournaments. We wanted to address issues and concerns arising out of the Champions Trophy. Younis had told me he would not be able to attend so there is nothing in his absence.”

At least one board official, closely monitoring the situation – which arose with Younis’ resignation at a National Assembly hearing looking into match-fixing allegations earlier this week – is privately confident that Younis will return. “The meeting with the chairman went fairly well yesterday from what I know. Younis told him what he would like and they are fairly just requests, so I expect they will be accepted and he will return,” the official told Cricinfo.

Reports in local media yesterday said that Younis had asked for a guarantee of his captaincy tenure till the 2011 World Cup, but both the official and sources close to Younis have denied such a demand was made. “He is realistic enough to know that such a long-term assurance is not possible in Pakistan,” the official said. “But he does want the board to announce him captain for longer than just on a series-by-series basis. Maybe for the next six months or so, but more than a specific time he just wants some stability so he can plan how his team will be and how it should play.”

The other matter supposedly discussed at Younis’ meeting with Butt is possibly more telling. Younis, it is believed, wants to streamline the process of selecting the final XI; during the Champions Trophy, as many as five people were often involved in selection, including the captain, vice-captain, coach, manager and associate manager. Younis wants the panel to be reduced: captain, coach and a member of the selection committee at home and captain and coach on overseas tours.

Friday’s meeting is believed to have discussed these conditions. Additionally, Qasim wants senior players in the team to have a meeting among themselves, to clear the air so to speak, over issues that have been floating around the team since Younis took over. Even though the board has denied it, speculation over the role of a lobby, led by Shoaib Malik, and Afridi’s own desire to be captain, in trying to undermine Younis’ authority is rife.

There are those close to Younis who believe, however, that the situation remains 50-50. “The conditions he has laid down at the meeting are things he has been requesting over the last 6-8 months. Not much has emerged about how the meeting with the chairman went but those two conditions were laid out. If the board doesn’t agree to them, or compromises further on it, I can’t see Younis changing his mind and coming back.”

khansahab and Omer “I am agree” with you both.

Gul had a very bad tournament and that is why I wanted him to be dropped and Asif to be included in place of Gul, but people were unhappy with my comment and wrote that one bad performance should not be an excuse to drop Gul. Clearly he had not just one bad performance but quite a few and it started from Sri Lanka and not just at the CT.

Rana, has the knack of giving away too many runs when he is supposed to restrict, it was a crucial match against NZ and he failed. So, I don’t consider him as a good bowler. In fact I don’t want him in any format of the game, he is a liability.

As regards Inzamam’s winning matches, most of his winning innings came when Wasim and Waqar were not in the team and as a captain he scored more, so it is not fair to take away the credit from him.

Shoaib Malik is a lucky bastard, he scores a fifty or so when he is about to be dropped and by scoring that fifty (and this hundred against India) he has cemented his place. They will never drop him no matter what you guys may think about him or write against him.

Thank you Khansahab and LS for your Diwali wishes!

I will pray this Diwali in the hope to have peace around the world.

Guys,

It has been a Diwali treat for me to watch the biggest club level tournament — Champions League. It is a shame that the Indian and Pakistani Govt’s prevented the Pakistan clubs from displaying their talents at the world stage.

I’ve been most impressed with the talent from the West-Indies — T&T (Trinidad and Tobago). As the name goes they literally are TNT! Wow! I guess they are surely my champions over here. Man, they got talent — Keoron Polard is the new KP and then they have Lendl Simmons, the son of Phil Simmons, and Adrain Barath, the talent prodigy picked by Lara himself. These youngsters are wasted because of the petty fights between the WI administrators and players associations. Who said cricket is dead in WI? Also the T&T players, 6-7 of them have their roots in India. The people from Bihar were taken as slaves and then got settled in WI, now returning back after several decades, must be quite an emotional moment for them.

There are other teams, especially from SA which surely have shown the fight and talent which has never been seen before. I think its a great idea to have such a club-level tournament. I hope ICC officially oversees this and makes it a must. I am sure Pakistani players would have shown the same or even more hunegr to win the tournament, had they been allowed to play. I hope next time round they will and petty politics will take a back seat.

But from what I’ve seen, the most consistent teams are the Australian clubs. Now i know whay they have so much of success at the highest level. They simply have a problem of too many. For every slot they have a fight between 3-4 international level players. Surely if any country has talent and has nurtured it, it is Australia.

The IPL teams have also performed admirably. Royal Challengers Banglore have shown why they were among the top teams in this years IPL. Especially Ross Taylor — he looks to me the Viv Richards of this generation. Watch out for him.

But T&T are the team on fire.. watch out!

More later…

The match between Delhi and Cobras looks fixed. I read an article on Cricinfo in which a writer thought that at least one of the matches was fixed. What is the situation of Champions League right now, have any of the Indian teams qualified? And does this match have any significance in that sense, in terms of qualifying to the next round? Because if most Indian teams aren’t in the next round, it would kill the tournament, not many would come to watch the matches, and there would be a substantial loss of revenue.

Pawan

You must be kidding me, Viv Richards and Ross Taylor? How do you compare the two?

Khansahab

I don’t know what makes you think Rana only performed bad in one match, performing bad is not equivalent to losing a match singlehandedly. He lost 1 match singlehandedly, he performed bad in almost all the matches. To see what I am saying, lets consider “average” the performance of the average bowler, and anything substantially worse than average, lets consider it bad…and better than average would be good. In the matches that Pakistan bowled, in each match find the “average” first by finding the runs conceded by the average bowler (all others apart from Rana) in his 10 over spell. So, just as an example, if Rana conceded 50 runs while the team conceded 200, take 150 (200-150)…divide 150/40 overs to get runs per one over and multiply by 10 to get the 10-over average….and then since wickets taken should also be weighted in this number…multiply the runs conceded by 1/no. of wickets taken….the lower the number, the better the effort….likewise, you can find this for this number for the average bowler and see if Rana’s score is higher (worse than average) or lower (better than average). So, further suppose that in the above example where Rana conceded 50…suppose further that he took 1 wicket and 9 wickets were taken by the other 4 bowlers…thats an average wicket of 2.25 for a bowler…so the average bowler (minus Rana) conceded 37.5 runs in his 10 overs and took 2.25 wickets…so his score is 37.5* (1/2.25)=16.66 and while Rana’s is 50 runs for 1 wicket= 50…which means that Rana bowled three times worse than the average bowler. You can use this logic in every match of the CT and lets see if, even once, Rana bowled better than average, let alone good. I don’t know what you consider good, but it would be fair if we were to consider “good” relative to how others did in the match (and others would constitute the average).

Omer Admani

You are WRONG, Rana has not lost one match single handedly, he has done it on a few more occasions, I reckon Caribbean WC match also the first high scoring ODI between India and Pakistan in Karachi in Jan/Feb 2004, Inzamam played him in place of Afridi and in that match both Malik and Rana got out cheaply after Inzamam’s departure and Moin Khan struggled to make runs. It was the Pakistani third umpire Zamir Haider or Aleem Dar who miscalculated the run and Rana had to play instead of Moin Khan. Anyways, the point is Rana is NOT A PLAYER and he should not play for Pakistan, period.

Another news is Machikay’s Asaf cannot go to Dubai, he is banned in the UAE so he is OUT. They should try the new tallest fast bowler Mohammad Irfan from Gaggu Mandi, Punjab he is 7 feet 1 inches tall and in two domestic matches he has taken 9 wickets best is 7/113. He could be better than Rana although he is not very young in cricketing years, he is 27 1/2 years old.

I agree about Mohammad Irfan. They should take him on tour when they go down under this winter.What a prospect!

My Odi team from now on:

Imran Nazir
Imran Farhat/Salman Butt/Fawad Alam
Younis Khan
Mohd Yousuf
Umar Akmal
Afridi
Kamran Akmal
Rana Naved ( final chance)
Gul
Aamer
Ajmal

No no Malik for odi btw.

LOL@ Viv Richards and Ross Taylor !

Javed Khan

I am totally agree with you. I meant that in the previous Champions Trophy he lost one match singlehandedly, in the past he has done it many, many times. In SA Pakistan consistently lost the matches, prior to the world cup, because of Rana. I would say Rana sapped all the confidence out of the team before the world cup. In fact Pakistan performed poorly in the world cup precisely because of Rana.

You are also correct, Inzamam has won Pakistan numerous matches with the bat– he had this knack of winning matches whenever he got set. However, as a captain, the system that he created, it was precisely that which eventually didn’t allow him to analyze players better and made him to continue with players like Rana…and eventually because of this, after being thrashed in SA prior to the worldcup because of Rana, Pakistan wasn’t as confident and performed poorly in the world cup.

Just to add to the articles that I posted a few days before:

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/357319/Niall-Ferguson-U.S.-Empire-in-Decline-on-Collision-Course-with-China;_ylt=AkfifAFhlMGTH7bPuoFHtju7YWsA;_ylu=X3oDMTE2MmZkY3V1BHBvcwMxMQRzZWMDdG9wU3RvcmllcwRzbGsDbmlhbGxmZXJndXNv?tickers=FXI,PGJ,%5EGSPC,%5Edji,SPY,LMT,RTN&sec=topStories&pos=9&asset=&ccode=

In the article referenced by Omer about the American power diminishing and China’s ascend, there is one huge difference to be noted between the Spanish/British empire that Ferguson compares America to, that is China is America’s largest trading partner and they own billions of dollars worth of American debt. If Dollar weakens then that is directly impacting China’s own wealth, the reserves and the debt that they own is going to be valued much less. Besides without America buying up the cheap products that they build their trade will weaken. It is in their interests to make sure Dollar is not weakened. Over time however they can reduce the dependency, I am yet to see which currency is going to stand in as a replacement for Dollar, Euro? A currency based on a coalition of nations whose growth is going on at slower pace than U.S. American power may be somewhat diminishing, but I am not convinced it is going to get replaced any time soon.

newguy & Omer;

The US economic power and control over other countries will remain as long as the “Dollar Drawings” are there. By dollar drawings I mean all these countries when they sell their products (not just to the USA) they trade in the US dollars, ultimately all the money stays in the US banks because, that is their local currency. Hence the USA is benefited even when they are not involved in these transactions.

A few major currencies have mildly diluted this monopoly like, pound sterling, Euro, Japanese Yen but, the US dollar still remains the dominant currency and it will continue to until and unless they do something systematically and with long term planning.

The Arabs sell oil in US dollars and all the sales proceeds in the shape of ‘petro-dollars’ stays in the US banks. Apart from that a majority of the corporations and individuals also keep their money in the US currency. If the Arabs make their own “petro-dinar” or “petro-dirham” or “petro-riyal” it will break the backbone of the US economy. But, for some reason or the other they cannot ……. for them it is like a point of no return. They cannot de-invest or divert their sales into another currency, if they do, they will simply annoy the US and the result will not be in their favour. If you remember Iran’s gold reserves and petro-dollars worth hundreds of billions were withheld by the US and Iran could do nothing.

Likewise, during this recession time, despite the fact that the GCC countries have a lot of surplus in the US banks they simply did not have the courage to withdraw from their own accounts, because they were told to withdraw only a certain amount and not more than that.

As regards China getting that MFN status, it is not because of love or charity but, it is a known fact that the US owns several trillion dollars in debt to China, like the Arabs they too have a similar problem but, in a opposite way i.e., like the petro-dollars surplus cannot be withdrawn, if China acts drastically then, there is a possibility that the debt will not be repaid. So, the US has hedged its bets from both sides. In Punjabi they say “Giitchii wee phharow tay tuttay wee.”

In order to deal with this monopoly they ALL have to take long term measures it is not as simple as it appears that you cut your ties with the US and switch over from the US to Euro or any other currency.

Abdul

Why don’t you invite Rana Naiyee and Salman’s Butt to your club and make them play for your club?

NewGuy,

I don’t mean America is diminishing, but America’s global hegemony is diminshing. What I mean is that as the US will have to cut back on spending (after probably the economy revoers) to not make the Chinese and various other countries avoid disorderly selling the dollar and dollar-denominated assets. America’s GDP is still about 1/3rd of the global economy (which is much more than any other country’s), but at the same time cutting back on expenses would mean cutting back on wars, other types of funding which help mantain US global influence, US bases abroad and so on (which would imply the collapse of an empire)…on the other hand, 20 percent or more of the world’s growth is coming from China, which means various other countries, increasingly, are getting tied upto, and dependent, on the Chinese economy one way or the other, which means an increasing global hegemony for China. For instance, increasing demand of oil, and the decreasing proportion of the US consumption of oil, amid a declining dollar, might prompt the petro-states to push for a more stabler currency…which could prompt a substantial decline in the dollar’s worth, so the Chinese will be faced with a scenario in which by holding the dollar they might lose more…besides that, at some point, the Chinese will have to focus more on consumption, thus reducing thus dependency on the US, and other countries gaining their dependency on the Chinese consumer…the point, ultimately, is that a gradual, rather than a sudden (as you say the Chinese are too dependent as well as others and hold too many dollar-denominated assets) collapse of the dollar will ensue.

Why should I do that Javed ? Are u trying to show that they are “club level” players ?

Abdul,

What do you mean last chance for Rana Naveed? What happens if he performs and his figures read 10 overs 60 runs and 2 wickets (both tail-enders). With that performance, he will remain in the team for the next 10 matches, and will lose probably many more significant matches, against Aus and then others…they should select a replacement for Rana, there is no point keeping him in the squad, Rao Iftikar is a 10 times better bowler than Rana can be..

Khansahab,

Since you haven’t been commenting much on LS lately, here is some food for debate on Lara/Tendulkar/Sehwag/Ponting comparison:

Highlights

Brian Lara’s career performance graph.Lara struck 277 runs against Australia in Sydney, his maiden Test century, the fourth highest maiden Test century by any batsman,[30] the highest individual score in all Tests between the two teams and the fourth-highest century ever recorded against Australia by any Test batsman.
He became the first man to score seven centuries in eight first-class innings, the first being the record 375 against England and the last being the record 501 not out against Durham.
After Matthew Hayden had eclipsed his Test record for highest individual score 375 by five runs in 2003, he reclaimed the record scoring 400 not out in 2004 against England. With these innings he became the second player to score two Test triple centuries, the second player to score two career quadruple centuries, the only player to achieve both these milestones, and regained the distinction of being the holder of both the record first-class individual innings and the record Test individual innings. He is the only player to break the world record twice.
In the same innings, he became the second batsman to score 1000 Test runs in five different years, four days after Matthew Hayden first set the record.
He was the all-time leading run scorer in Test cricket, a record he attained on 26 November 2005[31] until surpassed by Sachin Tendulkar on 17 October 2008.
He was the fastest batsmen to score 10,000 (with Sachin Tendulkar) and 11,000 Test runs, in terms of number of innings.[32]
He scored 34 centuries; joint-third along with Sunil Gavaskar, on the all-time list behind Sachin Tendulkar (42) and Ricky Ponting (38).[33]
He has the most centuries for a West Indian[34]
Nine of his centuries are double centuries (surpassed only by Donald Bradman)[34]
Two of them are triple-centuries (matched by Bradman[34] and India’s Virender Sehwag).
He has scored centuries against all Test-playing nations. He achieved this feat in 2005 by scoring his first Test century against Pakistan at the Kensington Oval in Bridgetown, Barbados.
He became only the sixth batsman to score a century in one session, doing so against Pakistan on 21 November 2006.[35]
Lara has scored an astonishing 20% of his team runs,[36] a feat surpassed only by Bradman (23%) and George Headley (21%). Lara scored 688 runs (42% of team output, a record for a series of three or more Tests, and the second highest aggregate runs in history for a three-Test series) in the 2001-02 tour of Sri Lanka.[37]
He also scored a century and a double century in the third Test in that same Sri Lanka tour, a feat repeated only five other times in Test cricket history.[38]
The first was the unenviable one of becoming the batsman to score the most runs (351) on a losing side in a Test.
The second record was that he became the batsman to score the largest proportion (53.83 per cent) of his team’s runs in a Test (221 out of 390 and 130 out of 262). He eclipsed the long-standing record of 51.88 per cent by the South African J. H. Sinclair (106 out of 177 and 4 out of 35) against England at Cape Town in an 1898 – 1899 series.
[39]

Lara holds the world record of scoring most runs in a single over (28 runs against left-arm spinner RJ Peterson of South Africa) in Test cricket.[40] He also scored 26 runs in a single over off the bowling of Danish Kaneria at Multan Cricket Stadium on 21 November 2006.
He scored the ninth fastest Test century, doing so off 77 balls against Pakistan on 21 November 2006.[41]
With 164 catches, He is the fourth all-time catch-taker of non-Wicketkeepers, behind Rahul Dravid, Mark Waugh and Stephen Fleming.[42]
In 1994, he was awarded the BBC Sports Personality of the Year Overseas Personality Award. In 1995, he was chosen as one of the Wisden Cricketers of the Year.
Comfortably averaging over 50 per innings (the benchmark for batting greatness in Test cricket), Lara has been ranked the number one batsman in Test cricket in the PricewaterhouseCoopers Cricket Ratings several times.[43]
Lara has played some of his best innings in recent years. Wisden published a top 100 list in July 2001, a distillation of the best performances from 1,552 Tests, 54,494 innings and 29,730 bowling performances. Three innings by Lara were placed in the top 15 (the most for any batsman in that range).[44] His heroic 153 not out in Bridgetown, Barbados, during West Indies’ 2-2 home series draw against Australia in *1998-1999 was deemed the second greatest Test innings ever played, behind Bradman’s 270 against England in the Third Test of the 1936–1937 series at Melbourne. On 13 October 2003, PricewaterhouseCoopers Ratings team published a list of top innings since 1990 under their own methodology. Lara’s 213 against Australia in Kingston, Jamaica in 1999 came out to be the top innings. His 375 was placed 8th and his three other innings, including the 153 not out, were not far behind.
Lara holds the third fastest century in ODIs, 45 balls against Bangladesh in 1999.
He is one of six batsmen to make a century before lunch.[45]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Lara

Although, I have been quite busy these days, but seeing some of the interesting comments on Finance and American Economy (Omer Admani, Javed Khan and New Guy), I could not hold myself back. Here, I would like to share a rather comic view of it all …

Living on a Credit and the American STIMULUS PLAN …

It is the month of June, where a resort town sits next to the shores of a lake. It is raining for few days, and the little town looks totally deserted … It is tough times for the residents, as everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit.

Suddenly, a rich tourist comes to town. He enters the only hotel, lays a 100 dollar bill on the reception counter, and goes to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one.

While the tourist is inspecting the rooms, the hotel proprietor takes the 100 dollar bill and runs to pay his debt to the butcher.

The Butcher takes the 100 dollar bill from hotel owner, and runs to pay his debt to the pig raiser.

The pig raiser takes the 100 dollar bill, and runs to pay his debt to the supplier of his feed and fuel.

The supplier of feed and fuel takes the 100 dollar bill and runs to pay his debt to the town’s prostitute that in these hard times, gave her “services” on credit.

The hooker runs back to the hotel, and pays off her debt with the 100 dollar bill to the hotel proprietor to pay for the rooms that she rented when she brought her clients there.

The hotel proprietor then lays the 100 dollar bill back on the counter, so that the rich tourist will not suspect anything.

At that moment, the rich tourist comes down after inspecting the rooms thoroughly, and takes back his 100 dollar bill, after saying that he did not like any of the rooms, and leaves town.

No one earned anything. However, the whole town is now without debt, and looks to the future with a lot of optimism.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how the United States Government is doing business today !!

Rana Naved is international class. The one and only problem he has is over stepping the line under pressure circumstances which cost him dear as batsmen always capitalise on that opportunity which shifts momentum. Other than that he is unarguably one of the best t20 players around. So if anything he should be kept in the reckoning for that format.
Imran Nazir is a mouth-watering player who can dominate proceedings and win a match single handily on his day with his free scoring counter attack style. Yes he will be inconsistent because he is risky with his unorthodox style but I’m in the view we should have uniqueness in our line up. For T20 he’s a necessity but need to either improve technique and controlling his instincts or bat lower down the order in ODI cricket if he’s going to play. I would still like to see him have some more chances though and be accomplished with his ICL partner Imran Farhat at the top of the order. The two tend to bat well together.

Although professional cricketers haven’t got an excuse to underperform I do feel the PCB is too harsh in dropping players. The selection committee don’t provide players with a worthwhile run which never allows one to settle. But then how come the like of Malik and Misbah the 2 mediocre batsmen got 101 chances and the like of Rana only got a few and in reality only had one bad game?

Omer: Rao Iftikar is a 10 times better bowler than Rana can be..

LOL at your analysis!

YES MISBAH IS AXED !

Omer Admani Thanks for posting that link and the record about Lara.

It is some record by Lara that no one can match it and there is something missing in that whole article and that is about Lara’s character, his elegant style and his humbleness towards the opponents. I don’t think there is any other batsman who is more stylish than Lara, he used to play his shots with such a perfect timing and with so much ease that made it look so easy.

I remember watching one of the last matches that Lara played against India while Dhoni was also in the Indian team (not sure if Dhoni was captain then) and the commentators were comparing the two sixes that were scored in the same match and both were played in almost the same direction i.e., long-on.

Lara played his shot with such elegance and style, it appeared more like he is teeing off from a golf course and he remained calm, cool, composed and stood motionless.

Dhoni played the shot with such ugliness and body jerks that he moved a few steps on his right, lost his balance, stumbled and then managed himself some how by not falling on the ground.

They showed those two shots side by side on the same screen and showed it a few times.

LOl Mohammad Munir

Nice example. That is what the US govt is doing, but that would work assuming it is a liquidity crisis rather than a bankruptcy one. In the example, all the people combined actually have no net debt, their assets equal their liabilities, all they need is liquidity.

Abdul

If you are such a great admirer of Rana Naiyee then you can be his Chota and learn some tricks from him i.e., how to overstep the line under pressure circumcisions and not let the batsmen communisize under unsocial circumcisions. You can also get some mouthwatering recipes from Imran Nazir and drool it with you googlies.

Team announced and following are the Squads:

Tests: Salman Butt, Khurrum Manzoor, Imran Farhat, Younis Khan (capt), Mohammad Yousuf, Shoaib Malik, Fawad Alam, Faisal Iqbal, Kamran Akmal (wk), Danish Kaneria, Saeed Ajmal, Yasir Arafat, Umar Gul, Mohammad Asif, Mohammad Aamer, Abdur Rauf, Umar Akmal, Sarfraz Ahmad

One-dayers: Salman Butt, Imran Farhat, Khalid Latif, Younis Khan (capt), Mohammad Yousuf, Shoaib Malik, Umar Akmal, Kamran Akmal (wk), Abdul Razzaq, Rana Naved-ul-Hasan, Shahid Afridi, Saeed Ajmal, Umar Gul, Mohammad Aamer, Rao Iftikhar Anjum, Wahab Riaz

Twenty20: Khalid Latif, Imran Nazir, Umar Akmal, Shoaib Malik, Shahid Afridi (capt), Kamran Akmal (wk), Abdul Razzaq, Rana Naved-ul-Hasan, Umar Gul, Mohammad Aamer, Rao Iftikhar Anjum, Saeed Ajmal, Imran Farhat, Fawad Alam, Sohail Tanvir

Abdul – I think the PCB is too harsh on Misbah now What do you think?

The selection committee is comprising of monkeys, they have included Salman Butt once again in test and ODI’s both despite his poor show Butt, Butt noo Butt ditta. And they have labeled Fawad Alam as a test player because of his century on debut and instead of making him sit outside they dropped him from the ODI and T20 squad, Na rehay baans na bujay baansuri. They have also left behind Shahid Afridi from the test squad whereas his test average is far better than his own ODI average and he is any time a better player than Danish Kaneria in every department of the game, yet this is the way you see a picture through Butt Vision.

LOL Munir, thats a good one and it is similar to that Monkey Business example on US economy.

Khansahab

These are the people’s opinions. Similarly, many would say Lara was the best. Shane Warne, every once in a while, produces a publicity stunt to keep himself marketable, and in his own words, he said something like, “sometimes I think I am just a good bussinessman”. Maybe he wanted to sound sarcastic, but I think he was just being plain honest. You have to bear in mind that, by far, the largest market in the cricket world is in India, and to create a brand name of yoursel so to speak, or to get into the headlines of cricinfo, you just have to say Tendulkar is the best. There is a whole blog dedicated to a certain person on cricinfo, a supposed statician, who just keeps on coming out with algorithms claiming that Tendulkar is the best. There is so much media spin that comes with it that you have to really think freely about this rather than relying on a few people’s words. I remember, prior to cricinfo, I used to go at the BBC’s website for sports news, and there was a discussion board there. Over there, Tendulkar barely made it to top-10 lists of all time, and he was considered like just another good batsman (Like Inzamam or Saeed Anwar). However, afterwards it has been exagerrated to very large proportions, and though for Tendulkar to be the best is indeed someone’s opinion, the sort of spin that is created does matter. But seriously Tendulkar has produced very few innings which are special as a proportion of his overall innings; that for me is what defines a batsman, not making runs for the sake of making runs. Mohd Yousof is averaging 55,56, probably as much as Tendulkar, but I don’t claim he is better or as good precisely because of this. Lara, for me, was by far the greater batsman as not only did have possibilities on the field, in terms of the shots he could create through his agility, footwork, and eye, thereby creating space, but he played innings that stick in memory. PWC rated him as the best batsman ever, three of his innings are in Wisden’s top 15 of all times; there are fourth innings match-defining centuries chasing high targets against the best team in the world, and there are the 300s, 400s, and 500s. These things, which weren’t possible for most, were for him…Lara, when he set his mind to something, could do things that probably aren’t possible for Tendulkar. That is the difference, there is almost equal consistency (in terms of averages) but Lara also had a lot more possibility.

I fully agree with Omer Admani not only his support for Lara but, also about how the media has hyped up in praising Tendulkar – this doesn’t mean Tendulkar does not deserve praise – but, the unnecessary and over exaggerated praise and accolades that are being showered over Tendulkar and undermining Lara’s class is very obvious and Shane Warne is like Wasim Akram both are His Master’s Voice. And, their master is Moolaa or Money.

The guy Omer Admani mentioned on cricinfo who keeps computing the stats and using various algorithms is S. Rajesh and I have always noticed that his calculations and computations are so confusing and complex that it always leaves a doubt in one’s mind. And not just Rajesh but, Sambit Bal, Nagraj Gollaphuddi and the rest of the gang appears as paid employees of cricinfo and their job is to chant mantras for Tendulkar.

It is not that I want to say Inzamam is better or Saeed Anwar is better but, they all have their own class and I have always believed that it is not the number of runs or the number of wickets that counts but, it is the innings that you play for your team under the most adverse and difficult circumstances that matters and there is no denial that Inzamam and Miandad both have played some real great innings for their country they may not have 15000 runs or 42 centuries but, their innings were match winning innings and that is what matters.

Similarly the classical shots, the cover drives, the pull shots and the lofted sixes played by Lara and Viv Richards are unmatchable and Lara definitely stands “heads & shoulders” above the rest of the batsmen.

Javed Khan,

I didn’t mean S Rajesh, whom I personally understand as a very honest statiscian, because he is very neutral. There is someone who has a blog, who tends to reinforce the view every few days that Tendulkar is the best batsman, and most of his methodology/algorithm, and even intentions, are questionable. Apart from that, the above writers that you mentioned are mostly neutral. Generally, the headlines, and the way information is put forth and what information is put forth, cricinfo has become very, very biased. Maybe it is about tapping the market…but it wasn’t the case before cricinfo went Disney and the acme of biasness was when India-Australia went into a praise-each-other spiral, before India visited Australia, and they played the game like they were the only two teams in the world that actually played cricket. Within this period or around was when Shane Warne produced his list, and what followed was baffling. Every 3 days Shane Warne was at cricinfo on the news, whether he was playing golf or poker, or making a casual statement somewhere…anyway, afterwards India lost in Sri Lanka, and Australia to SA in Aus and now Eng in Eng, and the realization set in that no single team was the best and the bubble kind of collapsed. In any case, I still think SA is the best team in the world, Aussies always good under pressure, India has superior batting, and Pakistan, if they can play their best 11 players, the only team, now, that can consistently challenge South Africa. A pace attack comprising Asif, Akhter, Aamer, Kaneria, Afridi will be by far the best in the world…if that could happen.

Javed Khan …

Fawad Alam is in there for the T20, at least his name is mentioned above. Anyway, you are right, he is a better ODI player then Tests and they ‘fixed’ him in Tests only due to that debut century.

BTW, if Fawad is good enough for Tests and also for T20, why not ODI ?

Munir you have to ask that question from the selectors. Yeah, I missed his name in T20 like they always miss him in the playing XI. Perhaps they have kept him there to use him as a 12th man to do some fielding when Mun Muni Si Jaan Malik gets tired.

Omer Admani

That (best 11) will not happen and Pakistani selectors are notoriously famous for that.

Khansahab

To be honest, the association of genius with Tendulkar is uneccesary. Genius is a very abused word in this sense. In any case, if there is anyone who has to be close to a genuis in cricket, it has got to be someone who has a lot more possibility, art, and creativity. In terms of shots, someone who can create space which others, with the traditional techniques, can’t. It is probably better seen in terms of bowling, if a bowler can hit the good-length spot 99 out of 100 times, he is very effecient but where is the ‘genius’ in that?

Tendulkar is a very, very effecient player and should be in anyone’s top-5,6 list of batsmen of his generation. And as far as the question of 100s is, it is just a number, it is an oversimplification of an “achievement” in cricket. 100 is just another number like 75 is or 150 is…The significance that 100s have in cricket is a bit faulty– as someone who scores 300 in an innings has only 1 hundred added to his tally of 100s…if we are to actually look at the “significance” of any score in cricket, then we have to not pick a random number such as 100, but we have to look at what the number means. In other words, how significant was the scores impact on the outcome of the match. A matchwinning 30 could mean more than a 100; and, likewise, a 300 is 200 more than a 100, it is much, much more…to say that both are the same is an inane oversimplification.

Anyway, I understand the way you see things and there is a crucial difference in the I see them. Shoaib Malik was your favorite batsman because he could churn up a 30, 40 almost every match. I always prefer a batsman who can win a match, make big scores when it counts. So, for you Ghambir might be a better batsman than Sehwag, and for me there is absolutely no comparison–Sehwag is a much better player. He can have a similar average, which would obviously imply that he doesn’t get to that average as often as someone who doesn’t make very big scores. For me, a batsman doesn’t have to score well in every match, he just has to make it count when he does score.

Khansahab

What? I thought you mentioned that Malik was your favorite batsman in the Pakistan team at some point back in time.

I totally respect your opinion Khansahab, but I would like to also point out that, in the past, you have consistently supported players like Mohammad Hafeez, Shoaib Malik, and the like. And, if you notice, Hafeez was another player who would score 20 runs in almost every match but always never score more than 30. In my view it was as though he was throwing darts, and aiming for only one number, 20. I would be surprised if Ghambir is ever considered a great player by anyone, and Sehwag–well–he is already a great player. He is averaging more than 50, has two triple centuries, and his performed in the most difficult situations, not by taking singles cheekily, but by demoloshing bowlers.

Dear Omer Admani,

Why do you always want to compare each and every player? I mean We should be wasting our time on arguing whether this player is better or that and more so if you are talking about Tendulkar and Lara. The way you talk about Tendulkar it gives me the impression that you did not actually grow up watching him or following him since the beginning i mean 1989 that is..To me Tendulkar and Lara are both simply the best batsmen of their Era followed by Ponting and I see no reason/need to compare the three of them as all of them have come from different settings and background and hence imcomparable.

There is no doubt that some of Lara’s knocks are unforgettable and so massive that it is easy to remember them for long time in the future.But does that really make him a better player than Tendulkar? One can always argue for and against by churning up new arguments every now and then but then either you decide to settle down on one Conclusion and be content with it or if you are unsure try to look through the arguments and change your mind.

In reference to your earlier reply to khansahab regarding People having different opinions all the time I would only say that there is a big difference when the People you are talking about are players like Bradman,Gavaskar,Akram,Ponting,Donald,Lara, Warne, Mcgrath, Hadlee e.t.c. or when it is you, me or any normal non-playing supporter!

“I am fully agree” with khansahab in his arguments regarding Tendulkar’s defence.

As far as Cricinfo is concerned I too am not very comfortable with the presence of too many Indian Writers there, not because their views would become India Centric or they would be churning up lot of Articles relevent to India but because that would give people enough fodder to some people to come up with certain allegations and just for my curiosity I decided to check out some of the recent Statistics Articles written by S.Rajesh. Surprisingly this is what he had to say about Tendulkar in his last Statistics-Article on him written last year in Feb in Australia.

http://www.cricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/340239.html

Of special interest to Omer would be the last two lines in this Write-up!!:)

Excuse-moi for my hasty comment full of errors. I wrote it in haste from this noisy Cafe where I came for dinner.

Tendulkar, besides being a good batsman is also lucky in the sense that he got a chance to play for India at a very tender age and he is still playing. The second aspect is, he has always opened the innings and anyone who opens the innings have more chances of making more runs than those who play at number 4 or 5. Jayasuriya is another example and likewise, Miandad and Inzamam do not have that many runs as Saeed Anwar had in that many number of matches. Ponting plays at number 3 and often gets more chance to play longer innings……….. All this is in reference to ODI and not test matches.

Once again I do agree with Omer Admani about Hafeez and Malik. Especially Hafeez is a big liability, in fact the first T20 WC which India won was because of Hafeez. He dropped that simple catch of Rohit Sharma or was it Irfan Pathan? (either one) And, that resulted in a six, because Hafeez dropped the ball outside the line. India would not have scored more than 125 but went on to add 30 odd runs in the last 3 overs. I am glad that Hafeez is not in any squad…….. Rana should be out as well…… he is a bigger liability than Hafeez.

Varun,

Cricketers play the game, no doubt, and know about its finer details on the field. But not all of them are good analysts. If you would go and ask Umar Gul about who is a genius in cricket and why, he wouldn’t necessarily give the most accurate– and for that matter, sublime– answer. After all, I agree with most of their comments, that Tendulkar is a great batsman. But a few go on to only say that he is better than Lara and that is their opinion. Warne’s list, though, was considered to be very, very political (even by the writers after the list) and some days after that, he said himself something like, “sometimes I think I am just a good bussinessman”.
Viv Richard’s comparison of Lara and Tendulkar probably makes the most sense to me. He said,
“So as we can see, the jury is still out on this never-ending debate, which will probably be still raging long after the two have hung up their boots. Like someone on a message board said, comparing the two is akin to comparing literary giants. Tendulkar is the master non-fiction writer, the Bertrand Russell.
Businesslike and focused on results, with little for the people to become emotionally attached to, except the tremendous results he achieves for his team. Lara, on the other hand, is the Dostoevsky, weaving together a story of beauty and force, using both sledgehammer and razor blade to equal effect. Dangerous yet compulsive, with a level of artistry that brings readers (or viewers, in this case) to the verge of tears. “I can’t watch, yet I MUST watch.” Take your pick to read in bed tonight.”

And, for this reason, Lara would be a much greater batsman in my view, because he was more of an artist than a scientist

Omer,

Although I have read Bertrand Russell’s couple of books and also The Idiot and Crime and Punishment by Dostoevsky but honestly speaking i find it hard to compare them with Lara and Tendulkar.

“Cricketers play the game, no doubt, and know about its finer details on the field. But not all of them are good analysts.”

By the same logic how can you agree/trust with Richard’s assessment? So it simply means that you pick and choose the assessment done by someone which appeals to you and then you try to argue to prove your point just for the heck of it.

khansahab

I know that Tendulkar was playing from the age of 13 – 14 and along with Vinod Kambli they entered into a record partnership at school level and that is how they came into limelight.

Talking of Vinod Kambli, I think he is the only player who smashed 3 sixes of Shane Warne’s bowling in the same over in Sharjah. I was watching that match and I remember Kambli lofting over the bowlers head and after the 3rd six, Shane Warne folded one arm around his stomach and with the second one he was covering his face in order to avoid the embarrassment, over all Kambli scored 23 runs in that over.

Kambli was a very dashing left hand batsman but, he ruined his career by getting involved in other things and got distracted with fame and money. But, its a fact and whether you may agree or not openers always get more chances to score runs in ODI’s as opposed to those who play down the order.

The thing that Jayasuriya has achieved in ODI’s, neither Tendulkar nor Lara has managed to do that in fact no other batsman in the world has done that. He is the second highest run getter in ODI and the highest wicket taker and that makes Jayasuriya an over all better player than Tendulkar and others. Kallis is number two and Afridi is number three in that respect i.e., wickets and runs combined in ODI.

I would certainly enjoy the (50-60) innings of Jayasuriya and Afridi when they are on song as opposed to Tendulkar’s hundred. That is because, those two help in winning their team whereas, Tendulkar’s hundreds often end up in vain and it goes only into his records that he scored “yet” another hundred.

Varun,

I said not “all” of them are good analysts. Besides that, I didn’t post Viv Richards quote to show who is better, it was just the way he compared the two that I liked.

Khansahab

You have often supported Malik and you also mentioned before, when Inzamam was captain, that he was your favorite player in the team. Anyway, many players have won the player of the year Award and they aren’t considered great. Ghambir, in no way imaginable is great, nevermind Sehwag’s tripple centuries, just look at his this innings:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrqrfRIiD08

Here is the match situation that he played in:
http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/343730.html

These are the sort of innings that make a great player, no-one else was up to task, but because of Sehwag India was able to win the match. Just look at the Indian team in the world 20/20 and the Champions Trophy, without Sehwag it barely performs– he has an impact on the team and the opposition that Ghambir can probably never have. In fact, even find me an innings of Tendulkar where he made 200 and the next highest score was 50-odd, and most others were under 10.

Khansahab

Like I said the way you think and the way I think are the total opposite. In the first innings there, Ghambir is batting with Sehwag, and once Ghambir gets out, Sehwag is batting with every batsman who comes to the crease and gets out after a few overs. Its Sri Lanka’s low-scoring pitch, there is Mendis, and most Indian players can’t read him, so Sehwag just keeps on clobbering him in return, demolishing his psyche and Sri Lanka’s. This innings after losing the first test match and trying to make a comeback, he singlehandedly does it.

This is the sort of thing that you don’t associate with Tendulkar, winning the match by himself. This was also something that Inzamam did a lot more often than Tendulkar, and Ghambir has probably never done it.

NSW winners – Doesn’t mean Australia have the best T20 structure !

New South Wales may have won the CLT20 but surely it’s only evident that Pakistan are the kings of the format. If Sialkot Stallions were in the reckoning I’m sure they would have been a frontline force with their unique and flamboyant style.

T20 comes as a synthetic format for the country. In fact it originated long ago for the talented and gifted cricketing nation when people used to play “Ramadan tournaments” and specifically 20/20 matches with tape balls etc. Therefore it’s nothing new and comes very naturally to the people. The interest within the nation is of abundance and the structure is one that really motivates the players.

Khansahab, what did u make of the selection for the different versions of the game ? I feel the PCB made wise choices and were innovative in opting for format specialism i.e Nazir for T20 only.

Khansahab

Maybe I haven’t mentioned that, Tendulkar is the best ODI batsman I have seen, but at test level I’d have to put Sehwag and Lara higher just because of the possibility they had and the type of innings that they could play. Despite such logevity, Tendulkar has made only 1 4th innings 100. He has barely won any matches by playing innings of pure brilliance, singlehandedly carrying the team. An innings like this (just notice the initial score in the fourth innings when the clip begins– this is also the second best innings of all time rated by Wisden),

Khansahab,

Tendulkar has performed in only one series against both Mcgrath and Warne. His average, you will find, is considerably lower than his career average against Mcgrath. In the clip above, I don’t know how you figured that Mcgrath is not at his peak, but, from what I can see, Mcgrath is bowling some ferocious deliveries, in fact Mcgrath is in full flow of the battle, worked up, and bowling really, really well. Besides that, Tendulkar hasn’t really ever performed against Waqar and Wasim at their peak either. In any case, for me, Lara is a much, much better test match player, a genuine matchwinner, someone who could dominate, and had the most possibility and ability. In fact, even now, if someone who comes close to Lara in that sense is Sehwag. The other player that could be something similar is Duminy.

khansahab

you are talking about current Pakistani openers like Malik, Butt etc., during Miandad and Inzamam’s time the Pakistani openers were pretty reasonable, Mohsin Muddassar, Saeed Anwar Aamir Sohail, so you have to keep that in mind what I am saying.

As regards class of Lara Tendulkar Ponting, like Omer Admani has said, making a hundred or scoring 15000 runs does not stamp the final authority of a player being ‘the supreme commander’ I concur his views that a swashbuckling 60-70 in 25 to 30 balls in ODI are far better than a 100 at a strike rate of 85.

Everyone has a different opinion about players and mine is very similar to that of Omer Admani’s. And, I fully agree with his comparison between Gambhir and Sehwag. Sehwag is Sehwag he is far better than Gambhir.

You may not agree with people’s views on different blogs where they consider Malak as a HERO, but for them he is one, whereas we all agree that he is a duddoo.

Javed Khan

I agree with you, it is more about the quality of runs rather than quantity. When a batsman dominates the bowler and the opposition, he also hurts them psychologically, and any battle has a psychological aspect as well. In fact the point about Jaysuriya is a very good one too. Jaysuriya at his peak would demolish bowlers at will. The only reason that his batting average has gone low now is that he has become really old and hasn’t performed a lot in the last 3,4 years…he is just there to participate in the 20/20 bling for a while, which is understandable as cricketers from Sri Lanka aren’t compensated very well, and after a cricketer retires, his skill becomes obsolete, and he has to find other ways of earning his bread and butter.

As an overall player, Jaysuriya is one of the legends of ODIs.

On Afridi, Pakistan has made a consistently big mistake by not playing him in tests. For me, Afridi can be a great test player. He has an average of around 40 with the bat, and if you consider the “quality” of those runs considering that he dominates, then that average is very, very good– for a player who can add a lot with his legspin, which somewhat resembles Kumble’s; he can be used effeciently when the pitch is broken on the fifth day, or to otherwise provide stability when some of the risky bowlers– though genuine matchwinners– such as Akhter and Kaneria go awry. In other words, Afridi can provide the balance that the team needs, he can be a much better Test player than he is in 50-over cricket.

Khansahab

Talking about what the established players say, check this out:
http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/2005/11/29/best.shtml

http://www.fractalenlightenment.com/2007/03/lara-better-batsman-than-tendulkar-says.html

And this one too:

http://in.rediff.com/cricket/2006/nov/04cric.htm

Omer,

I do not know how you can say that Tendulkar has Performed only once against Warne and Mcgrath (in the 97 series i presume) in India.

1991-1992:- Matches:- 5; Runs Scored;-368;Avg:46.50 Highest:-148
1997-1998:- Matches:- 3; Runs Scored;-446;Avg:111.50 Highest:-177
1999-2000:- Matches:- 3; Runs Scored;-278;Avg:46.33 Highest:-116
2000-2001:- Matches:- 3; Runs Scored;-304;Avg:50.66 Highest:-126
2003-2004:- Matches:- 4; Runs Scored;-383;Avg:76.60 Highest:-241
2007/08:- Matches:- 3; Runs Scored;-493;Avg:70.42 Highest:-154
2008/09:- Matches:- 3; Runs Scored;-396;Avg:56,57 Highest:-109

Total Matches:- 29; Runs Scored:-2748 Highest:-241* Average:-56.08 Total Centuries:- 10

Generally speaking against Australia he has performed better than other countires with the possible exception of England. As far as Wasim,Waqar and Pakistan is concerned unfortunately between 1989 until 2002 when Wasim retired there was very little Cricket between India and Pakistan infact there was only One Series in 1998-1999 so your jumping to the Conclusion that Tendulkar did not perform against the W&W’s is a bit far fetched!

Going by your posts it seems that you already have made up your mind and now you are desperately trying to prove your point. You mentioned Tendulkar scored only 1 Century in the 4th Innings(infact it’s 3) and Lara scored more than him in the 4th? Is this Criterion enough for Lara be a better batsmen? What about Tendulkar’s bowling? He used to be quite a useful bowler both in Tests and One-Days and it is for the same reason why Javed likens Jayasauriya more than Tendulkar, I would rate Tendulkar as a more complete Test player than Lara but as far as only batting is concerned, it is simply incomparable you can either compare the whole player or nothing at all but you can’t compare tits n bits like Who scored bigger hundreds? or Who scored more in the 4th Innings? or Who stayed longer on the crease?

Now you have started pasting old articles to support your POV but the fact is Chappell in 2007 was quite notoriously after Tendulkar’s sacking after he had not performed in quite a few matches and he was the No.1 person asking for Tendulkar’s retirement. The thing is if Lara would have been playing until now then also you would find many experts supporting your POV but since Tendulkar continued to play until now I am sure many of these experts have already changed their mind!!

As khansahab has said already that he is not a GOD and hence he will always have some weaknesses and Yes he has not scored heavily in the 4th Innings to win a Test Match but is that the only innings what you would consider a Match Winning Innings? What about the player who scores big in the first innings to give an advantage right in the beginning?

You say that Tendulkar never won matches for India as Lara did, maybe you did not follow Indian Cricket from 1990-2000 when the only time we had any chance to win was when Tendulkar performed and it was in those times when he was hitting a quick 70-80 in 30-40 balls and that is the reason why it took him 70-75 matches to score his first ODI Century. If you ever happen to realise how mediocre Indian Team was in that decade only then you would realise the importance of Sachin in the Indian context.

For now I would request you to kindly put this debate to rest because I am sure no matter how many articles you post neither khansahab nor me would be convinced by your way of thinking. Of Course Javed Khan is on your side on this one so you will never walk alone…

His record against Aus:
These are his scores in the series in which Mcgrath was playing:

http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=1;opposition=2;template=results;type=allround;view=innings

The first series in which Mcgrath was playing was 1996:

1st match: – DNB
2nd Match: 10 -
3rd math: – DNB
4th Match: 0 -

In the 1998 Series Mgrath wasn’t playing

In the 1999/2000 series Mcrath was playing:

His scores are: 61, 0, 116 52, 45, 4

In the 2001 series Mcgrath was playing:
76, 65, 10, 10, 126, 17

In the 2004 series, in the matches that Mcgrath was playing (when Mcgrath wasn’t playing in the first match Tendulkar was feeding of Lee, and Lee is an average good bowler– he made 244* and 60-odd* in that match):
8, 2, 5, 55

After this Mgrath retired…his average when mcgrath was playing is 10+0+61+0+116+52+45+4+76+65+10+10+126+17+8+2+5+55= 662/18= 36.77

His 10 centuries are reduced to 2 when Mcgrath was playing. Also, consider the flattest pitches in India…for fast bowlers it is very, very tough to bowl in India, whereas in the Carribean the ball does quite a bit and fast bowlers have better conditions to bowl in. His highest score is 126.

Also, consider how Tendulkar has fared on the flattest of pitches in the world against Pakistan– when either of Wasim Akram, Waqar were playing:

89 series:

15, 59, 8, 41, 35, 57

99 series

0, 136, 6, 29, 0, 9

In the 2004 series when Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis had retired, he does come in form though (albiet in Multan– arguably the flattest pitch in the history of the game).

15, 59, 8, 41, 35, 57, 0, 136, 6, 29, 0, add all of them/11= average of 35.09

Bear in mind that these are one of the flattest pitches of the world. Pace bowlers need a lot of heart to bowl for 5 days in places like Multan and Karachi.
http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=1;opposition=7;template=results;type=allround;view=innings

In fact against Pakistan it is 329/12= 32.9

Besides all this, just look at the Indian team in those matches– they have got batsmen like Manjreker, Dravid, Ganguly, and the like. It is a myth that Tendulkar was the only good batsman in the team; in fact India had one of the strongest batting in the world.

Tendulkar has really fed off Lee. I just noticed even after Mcgrath retires, Tendulkar has really made a meal of Lee. This prompted me to check Lee’s statistics. Just look at what the subcontinent can do to a fast bowler:

Lee has an overall average of 31 and averages in the 40s against Pakistan and England. Meanwhile, in Australia he averages a decent 28– but in the subcontinent, just notice:
In Bangladesh he averages 93, in India he averages 61.62, in Sri Lanka 56, in UAE 40.66. He hasn’t bowled in Pakistan (or for that matter Multan). This is why I think SA is a much better team than Aus now. If Lee is Aus’s lead bowler now, it shows how Australia’s bowling has plummeted. I always knew there was no comparison between Lee and Akhter. Akhter was a genuine matchwinner, even in the subcontinent he would bowl crazy spells, and he struck fear in the hearts of Australians and South Africans. But now I think Lee is not even an average good bowler, he is just an average bowler.

Hi Omer, Khansaheb, et al,

Interesting discussion on two greatest masters of all time. In my opinion it is futile exercise to compare these two, for one it has already done by many others and the conclusion seems to favor Tendulkar for reasons Khansaheb noted and not for the reasons Omer and Javed is thinking, i.e, most people supporting this position are paid by Indians, that is absurd, was the greatest batsman of all time Don Bradman paid by Indian media when he said Tendulkar comes closest to being like himself? This is the best compliment Tendular could get, coming right from the Don himself.

Second reason this exercise is futile is that both of these batsmen are true greats, but they are very different, their styles cannot be compared, you cannot put one on top of another, but then again Tendular seems to be the most complete batsman, he has no weakness and there is no bowler in history that he has not dominated.

Lastly, those who are in favor of Lara being a better batsman seems to have made up their minds, and those who are in favor of Tendulkar seems to have made up their minds as well, and neither one would budge.

But, there is more evidence on why Tendular is a better batsman, not from how many matches he won for India or how many hundreds he scored in 4th innings, but from the pure batting perfection.

This is the reason why people call Tendulkar the better batsman, he batting is perfect looking from the purest form of batting.

Winning matches is irrelevant, it takes 11 players to win a game, and test matches are won by bowlers, a batsman can set up the match or score the winning runs if the target is made achievable by bowlers, but is it bowlers who win matches. Reason why Lara or Ponting may have been more successful than Tendulkar is because of their superior bowlers, Lara had Walsh and Ambrose, Ponting had Warne and McGrath, who did Tendulkar had in comparison, Srinath and Prasad? how laughable is that comparison, in fact Anil Kumble was the lone warrior for India in this regard, Kumble won most Test matches for India than any other player, so in this regard Kumble was alone, if India had another bowler of his caliber then Tendular would have seen more victories.

Khansahab

I don’t know where you are getting the majority view, it is your view so it is the majority view?

Please don’t tell me about my motivations, I know my motivations very well, I speak neutrally…Who is criticizing Tendulkar, I am just saying Lara was a much better batsman…it is a fact, he has done things that no other batsman has done, 300s, 400s, 500s, matchwinnings innings… I don’t see where the doubt is? Just because one person has played longer and made more runs doesn’t make him better, it simply doesn’t cut it. It would matter if someone had only played 30 matches, but when two people have played 90, 100 matches, I find it redundant to pick out the extra 2000 runs or 30 matches and say, this proves a point.

You are giving me words of commentators, so I did the same, gave you somee other opinions. When people make comments, usually it is a reporter who asks them a question– for instance, what do you think about Tendulkar as a player, or who was better Tendulkar or Lara…what do you expect, what way would commentators reply…they will tend to exageratte. In any case, you gave comments, so I gave some more commentary. For me, the real thing is discussing innings, the calibre, the possibility of the player– and I honestly rate Lara a lot higher than Tendulkar. If for you consistency is the major barometer, consistency as in who crosses 50 more often, then there is no greater player than Ponting. If you want to count the runs, who has more runs, then eventually Ponting will have, most likely, more runs. I don’t see your point, you mean Border was the best batsman because he had more runs (before Lara and Tendulkar surpassed him) or Tendulkar is the best batsman because xyz said so…? then also look at what abc says…but I am being honest, I am not making it up…I said Tendulkar is, hands down, the best ODI batsman because I think so. But out of all the batsman I have seen, this is the way I rate them:
1) Lara
2) Sehwag
3)Ponting
4)Tendulkar

I choose a great player with more possibility over a great player with more consistency. This doesn’t mean I choose Afridi over Tendulkar, it means a player who is averaging 50+ and yet has a lot more possibility. Call it my bias if you feel and our opinion will differ. Tendulkar and Ponting are 3 and 4 based on consistency, and Ponting is more consistent than Tendulkar.

I like when bowlers bowl magic bowls, test the boundaries of what is considered normal or possible, defy what is long held conventionally, and in a similar vein, that is what I like amongst batsmen. I can’t help it, no textbook technique will convince me otherwise.

On a different note…in today’s match between India and Australia Harbhajan and Praveen Kumar scored 84 runs in 9.3 overs and then just when they were near a very improbable win. Aussies pulled things back in the last over. It was a good lesson for Batsmen like Raina and Dhoni who really will have to pull up their socks in this series to restore their reputation….

khansahab,

I am agree with you,Mcgrath got Sehwag so many times that he had almost become his bunny and it was greatly after Mcgrath had retired Sehwag blossomed and this fact has been acknowledged by none other than Sehwag as he himself said that Mcgrath made his life very difficult and now that he is retired and also in the Camp of Delhi Daredevils so Sehwag is rest assured that he would never ever face him in a real match situation..

A 60 in 30 balls is good, but there is not much point in scoring runs like that if you will score them once every 25-30 matches. khansahab

25-30 matches is exaggeration and just a way to make a point. The real question is what the other players contribute in that match? Whenever players like Afridi and Sehwag performs others also do and when they fail the others struggle.

Now look at today’s match Sehwag was playing his natural game, 13 in 11 balls with 3 fours whereas Tendulkar scored at a strike rate of around 40 and see what happened? India already lost that game after that and Dhoni and Raina almost confirmed it by throwing the towel, it was only the two bowlers who almost made it possible that it looked like a win, they came so close yet they lost it by 4 runs.

The class was remembered by an Indian commentators when Nehra was playing the last ball he said ……… There is NO JAVED MIANDAD to score a six on last ball.

Indian bowling especially fast bowling is pathetic these days, only the first 8-10 overs helped the fast bowlers with a bit of a swing and after seeing Australia bat first India must have learned something. Both Indian openers were gone by the the time it was 8.1 overs and that shattered the Indian batting confidence they never looked steady after that although Gambhir’s gritty innings should have been capitalized but the job was left for Harbhajan and Kumar and they played the innings of their life, however you cannot expect them to finish off with a win. Over all it was a nice thriller but it never looked like India could have won, hence they lost.

Of Course Javed Khan is on your side on this one so you will never walk alone…Varun

Whether you like it or not, if you ask most English, Australian, Sri Lankan, South African experts they will say Tendulkar is better than Lara.…. khansahab

How many have you asked?

99% of Tendulkar’s criticism comes from Pakistanis … khansahab

You have simply cooked up the stats once again to make a point.

It is a fact that Tendulkar has highest runs and highest centuries but it is also a fact that Tendulkar is highly over-rated.

khansahab

mixing sport with politics or vice versa is also a reality because when two countries are not in good terms they cannot play in each others country except at a neutral venue. Both sides (India and Pakistan) the crowd is emotional. And there is one thing which is very clear i.e., the Indian crowd (spectators) are very, very biased and supports only Indian side and no matter who the opposition is be it Pakistan or Australia they only support India and never appreciate the opponent’s shots or wickets.

Today when Ponting, Paine and Hussey were hitting fours and sixes it never looked like it happened there was total silence in the crowd. Same thing when Indian batsmen get out like that expression in Urdu, “saanp soongh gayaa” ! Now, please don’t compare the crowds with some more instant stats

Wasim Akram’s wife was suffering from organ failure and when she needed him most he was in India in Bollywood and in TV lounges like Ek Hasina Ek Khilari or traveling to places alone to witness women world cup cricket etc., I am sure by now he has already recovered. May God bless the poor woman who went through so much sufferings and pain.

Omer, Khansaheb,

I think it’s time to put to rest the discussion on Tendulkar vs. Lara for now, this will resurface again for sure, until then both of you have made solid arguments supporting your suppositions

For the record I don’t think Omer is biased against Tendulkar because he (Omer) is Pakistani, that said I know too many Pakistanis do not agree to Tendulkar’s greatness just because he happened to be Indian. It’s refreshing to see the counter argument is not coming from an Indian or Indian born, but from Khansaheb who is Pakistan born. Likewise many Indians admire Pakistani greats too, like Miandad, Imran, Akram, Saeed Anwar, to name a few.

Fact is that Tendulkar is once in a generation player, so is Lara, end of story.

Changing topic to today’s match between Ind and Aus, match was lost by bowlers when they gave away 291 in the first place, and then batsmen lost it in the middle overs while chasing. Time for big names like Dhoni and Raina to stand up and deliver.

These days Indian batsmen are in constant pressure of chasing close to 300 scores every time they play quality opposition. This is because bowlers, especially fast bowlers give away too many runs, it’s so obvious that it’s simply amazing the coaching staff is not able to work on this problem, or may be they tried and it’s not working, this is why Venky Prasad and Robin Hood Singh were fired, both were getting a free ride on the Indian team bus for long without results to show.

Anyhow, Harbhajan always raises his performance against Aussies, whether it is with bat, ball, or mouth. He did it today againd, just could not get one more hit that would have made all the difference. Aussies bowled trash towards the end, especially Watson who bowled full toss after full toss, Siddle too did his share, but held his nerve in the last over.

This series most likely will go down 5-2 or 4-3 in favor of Australia, I don’t think India will lose 6-1 like England, and if India manage to claw back and win it is more likely a 4-3 in their favor, but I see Australia edging out the series just like they did in today’s match. Mainly because of slightly better bowling and far better fielding. Tendular dropped an easy catch today in the slips, which the commentator was saying probably Dravid would have caught, these little things make a difference in the end.

newguy

If Omer Admani is biased, so are you and your bias is reflecting in your patriotism. Secondly, you say:

Likewise many Indians admire Pakistani greats too, like Miandad, Imran, Akram, Saeed Anwar, to name a few. Are you really honest here or, trying to be more philosophical or diplomatic? I know a lot of them hate. Even Ravi Shastri said this in his recent interview that he hated Miadad ……… but, now it is different, neither of them are playing cricket and reportedly are friends, I respect Ravi because he is an honest bloke and his comments are always fair. He speaks his heart and not his mind.

Actually, that catch was not easy the second slip was just moved and Tendulkar had to cover the gap and the ball came towards his weaker side left hand and despite diving he couldn’t get it…. you should have seen Praveen Kumar’s reaction on that……….. AND, later, PK did a Rana Naveed by diving for the ball instead of stopping it and it went for a 4, that ball was not difficult to stop if he had not dived. But, then he won’t think it was his mistake he must have thought that it was a difficult ball to stop.

Gambhir too floundered and floored the ball and Gavaskar was supporting him by saying great effort and then making excuses for the white shade above the stands opposite to Gambhir…….. BS

The funny part was Nehra’s usual Maa Ki….. when Ponting came down with an intent to hit Nehra, he saw him and pitched the ball a bit short, still Ponting managed to hook it with his eyes closed and it went for a SIX and Nehra for a while looked at the ball, looked at Ponting, smiled in a bit of an embarrassment and then said to himself Maa Ki……….parachute……..whatever and that is Nehra!

Mohammad Irfan the 7 feet 1 inch tall Pakistani fast bowler is making headlines by taking more wickets in domestic matches. Earlier he had taken 9 wickets in 2 matches and in the third one he took 11 wickets. Overall 20 in 3 matches is a good achievement. He should be checked and trained further by the so-called ex-expert greats so that the talent could be harnessed and honed. If that bowler has the potential then he should be tried in place of NOTHING FAST BOWLERS LIKE RANA AND RAO ….. and if he succeeds at international level then, he will get more confident.

Bowling from that height is always and advantage for him and short batsmen will have more difficulty in playing a good length ball which could bounce up to their chest level. Therefore, I strongly believe that he should be checked out by the PCB selection committee and given a chance to play on fast and bouncy wickets like Australia and SA.

Khansahab

Sehwag against Aus in matches where Mcgrath was playing:
39, 0, 155, 12*, 22, 58, 8, 5/ 7= 42.77

Also, consider that he is playing the new ball against Mcgrath as an opener, and Mcgrath was probably the most effecient bowler of his time, too— Mcgrath was a great player and after his retirement, we have felt two Australias, the one with Mcgrath and the one without Mcgrath.

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/291353.html

Sehwag shouldn’t remain under the shadow of any player, he is a very unlimited player who repeatedly makes a joke of what is considered normal, and it would be be very unjustified to bound him below Tendulkar and look at him through that lens, he is a great player in his own right who can easily surpass any other player.

In any case, I am done with the debate, I better seriously start studying for an exam.

Khansahab

For you it might seem I am being biased, but I have always held Lara and Sehwag above Tendulkar. This is something I have not just said, my opinion has only changed recently in regards to Ponting and Tendulkar. If I were against India, I wouldn’t be putting 2 Indians in the top 5 batsmen I have seen and no Pakistani, I wouldn’t call Sachin the greatest ODI player (when there others like Bevan who average a lot, lot more). I watch India play to watch Sehwag play, especially in test matches. Because when Sehwag plays a matchwinning innings, I see the best bowlers of the world being dominated in a way that no other current batsman can. He psychologically kills them and produces 200s and 300s when he is in mood regardless of the pitch or conditions or what pain other batsmen might be feeling at the opposite end.

Javed,

Did you read my post or someone else’s, because I don’t understand some of your response.

You said “If Omer Admani is biased, so are you and your bias is reflecting in your patriotism.” – I said I DO NOT think Omer is biased, this is because he explained in his several posts his reasons for believing Lara is a better batsman, and I am convinced he is being honest. Also I am American now, I was born and raised in India, so I still align myself with India on cricket and other issues except when it comes to American interests where I align myself to America. But you placed a smiley there so I am not sure what you really meant.

Similarly you said quoting my comment:

“Likewise many Indians admire Pakistani greats too, like Miandad, Imran, Akram, Saeed Anwar, to name a few. Are you really honest here or, trying to be more philosophical or diplomatic? I know a lot of them hate. Even Ravi Shastri said this in his recent interview that he hated Miadad …”

I am 100% honest here, why should I be diplomatic? what am I going to get out of it, I have no reason to praise Pakistani players in vain. Of course when India play Pakistan I don’t want these players to do well, and I want them to get out without making many runs or getting wickets, but that doesn’t mean that I do not admire them when they play against other countries, or admire their performance against India when it is all over and you reflect back on it. Saeed Anwar used to be my favorite Pakistani batsman, I never liked Javed Miandad very much becuase he was not stylish to watch, although I admired his guts. I also admire Akram for his bowling skills. But these things happen as you grow older and mature.

About the Ravi Shastri comment, did you actually miss the full quote or was it deliberately left out, because he said “He hated Miandad’s guts” not “He hated Miandad” big difference. You can hate an opponents guts on field when you are playing against him, but hating him makes it personal. Of course Ravi is different from the average fan, he played along the same time as Miandad and they were adversaries on field, you don’t want them admiring each other on field, you want them trying to win over the other on field.

So your comment is out of place and it is twisting the actual meaning of what Shastri said.

I will provide one incident from my real life as an example of the stereotype that exists between Indians and Pakistanis and what others think about them.

Couple of years back I was working in a team that consisted of a Pakistani person. A new team member joined us and he was Jewish, not from Israel, but an American of Jewish faith. In one of our meetings I was with him but the Pakistani person was not attending at that time, this meeting happened after he got introduced to everyone, he turns to me and asks “Mr. XYZ and yourself, how do you guys get along, I mean he is from Pakistan and you are from India” then he puts on a I know it all smile.

I found that question totally understandable and I was not shocked because that is what the media generally projects, that Indians and Pakistanis are waiting to go over at each others throats, but I just said coolly that we get alone just fine and we have no problem, in fact I added most Indians and Pakistanis get along really well. Now, this is my view of it, of course, he was disappointed because the answer was not what he expected, he was thinking along the same stereotypical view. Anyhow, another person who heard it asked is that because you guys share history and similar culture, and I said partially yes, and added we also share similar language and food which is a very large part of any culture.

I got along OK with my Pakistani colleague, however, there were clearly instances when I knew he was not comfortable with topics involving India/Pakistan politics and problems, he made conscious efforts at not getting into that type of conversation, he also kept distance from myself and other Indians except for general chit chat and the occasional Hindi/Urdu chat.

One thing that pained me though was that he would befriend Muslim Indians while he kept a distance with others like myself who are Hindus. This is really strange though because of one he didn’t come across as a highly religious person, and second I don’t actually practice religion because I am primarily agnostic about this, so I really don’t care if someone is Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, or Christian, I like to be friends with everyone and especially like having diversity. I grew up with many Muslim friends and have been invited to their homes for special occations like Bakrid and I have attended many Muslim weddings, enjoyed many feasts, because these are my friends and I felt at home, and they made me and other Hindu friends feel at home, and we do same thing for them. These things may not be very well known or so common in India, but they do exist, and people forget to portray then when it happens.

Anyways, this person somehow felt more closer to Indian muslims and I agonized over it for a while then got over it, if that is how he wants to be so be it, it’s just lack of understanding, or may be he is just has more in common to discuss with them, whatever.

I am explaining this story to say that people do have their biases, and all they need to do sometimes is overlook those and try to trust the other party first, unconditional, then see if it gets reciprocated, if they do then you have won over some friends, if not you still haven’t lost anything.

Newguy,

The debate is not politically motivated, it is only Khansahab who is bringing a political tinge to this debate. In Pakistan Inzamam has a very high status and most Pakistanis wouldn’t appreciate me not putting him in top 5, but, as with Tendulkar, what I feel is true is what I argued. Anyway, this is the top 11 as I see it:

Lara
Sehwag
Ponting
Tendlkar
Steve Waugh
Kallis
Mohd Yousof
Inzamam
Smith
Sangkkara
Ghilcrist

In one days, from the above, Tendulkar, Smith, Ghilcrist, Ponting, and Inzamam stand out.

Ganguly, Dravid, and jaysuriya, though very good players, kind of faded of towards the latter part of their careers

How on earth can someone consider Sehwag (who by his own admission plays with minimal footwork) better technically equipped than Tendulkar? This is something extremely hilarious to me. Agreed one can debate over Lara and Tendulkar, but Sehwag? Come on. For a person to be a complete batsman, he has to be technically sound — now don’t say that it is okay not to be one.

Boycott would eat you raw, my dear friend, if you say Sehwag is better than Tendulkar.

I like the discussions over Lara vs. Tendulkar though. Good going!

newguy

I apologize, I’ve missed out in haste that you wrote Omer is not biased…. but, in the same sentence you said ………“I know too many Pakistanis do not agree to Tendulkar’s greatness just because he happened to be Indian” that led me to believe or understand that you are talking about Pakistani bias against Indians and saying Omer is biased. Sorry for that, also about Ravi’s comment yes, he did mention that he hated Miandad’s guts.

As regards mixing, I don’t think you guys have mixed with Pakistanis as much as I did with Indians. I have traveled to India a few times and I lived in Dubai long enough and I am accustomed to the culture and the food and, I am sure despite being an Indian you may not know how to cook Indian cuisine but, I do. I make thin and crispy Masala Dosa, Rawa Dosa, excellent Vada Sambar, Fried Idli, Uthapa, the green coconut chutney and authentic Upma with cashew nuts, peanuts, coconut curry leaves etc., etc. This is not something we eat as pathans but, I do make the South Indian cuisine once in a while to change the taste of food. For me the South Indian food is just like switching over from the regular desi food (North Indian and Pakistani cuisine) to French, Italian and Chinese cuisine and I prepare it with minute details to make it “look & taste” authentic.

In any case, I am done with the debate, I better seriously start studying for an exam. Omer Admani

Come on Omer don’t do this, don’t go, you have been doing well like Varun said, “I am on your side or, in Indian filmi isssshtyle dialogue……. Mai hoon na !”

Now LS has really sprung back into action after few days of dormancy!!

1. Tendulkar V/S Sehwag

I don’t think it is proper to compare players from different generations and more so if you consider that Sehwag has been only playing Test Cricket for only 8 Years and consider the circumstances in which he made his debut under possibly the best Captain of India:- Ganguly who made it easier for players like Harpphajan,Pathan,Kaif,Yuvraj,Sehwag and Zaheer Khan to get settled and play their natural game. Sehwag might appear and behave as cool as he would like to but he has never really felt the kind of pressure Tendulkar did during the 90’s. Sidhu, Manjrekar and Azhar’s form started to dip in the beginning of 90’s which led to their retirement amidst other reasons(match-fixing), there were occasional good knocks by Jadeja and Kambli but until Ganguly and Dravid came to the scene Indian Cricket was essentially a One-Man show as far as Batting is concerned!

Sehwag is alreay 31 now and I doubt he could match the lonegevity Tendulkar has displayed. If Tendulkar has been able to play at this level for 20 Years and still going strong, then Sehwag needs to play atleast another 2 Years at the Top Level to be even considered comparable with Tendulkar because as of now both of them are playing and it is only for this reason it does not make sense to consider the past articles where some people might have commented that Lara is better than Tendulkar because it is those same people only who are singing his praises and have changed their opinions and mind you not all of them have been paid by BCCI.

2. ….it is also a fact that Tendulkar is highly over-rated.

Over- rated by Who? Indians will definitely over-rate him because so many of them have made him a GOD and worship him and some of them abuse him when he does not perform. They have the right to do so being an ardent follower of Cricket.

As far as the people from other countries are concerned including Pakistan who over-rate him, I would like to ask Javed bhai with all politeness that Who has asked them to Over-Rate him? Are they gaining anything out of it personally? Is BCCI so rich that it can accomodate the luxurious lifestyles of all those Australian, South African and English experts who over-rate him?

3.Pakistan will always get an ovation or an applause if they are playing anywhere in South-India because most of the South-Indian Cricket fans tend not to mix emotion&politics with Cricket and hence are Generally more sportive as compared to people in the East the Bengalis or the West the Marathis or even in the North.

Javed Khan

You are a full-blown pathan and that is scary

Khansahab is somewhat pathan which makes me feel a lot more comfortable.

Let me refer back to an incident back in Karachi–

We had this gentleman, a chauffer, and he was a full-blown pathan. I used to go to KMC to play tennis and there was this person, who used to sell somee stuff– one day, after he met the driver, he, though himself a pathan goes like,

“Yaara tum ne pathan dreiver rakhi hui hai. Qayal rakhna, ye kab tumhen peechey se chura maar jaye gi tumhey pata bhi nahe chaley gi” (Be careful, one day he might hurt you from the back”

And lo behold, only a few days after that, the person drove head-on on a poor passer by…and, I was in the car, he left me behind and said that he is going to get some help and be right back. And, he didn’t return, he ran away, never again was he heard of.

After that incident, and for other slightly obvious reasons, I am a bit wary of this friendship with pathans, as you never know “when they might hurt you from the back”

Javed,

Your experience is very interesting, and you sure sound like a guy who knows more about India than many Indians do, honestly And your explanation of South Indian food is very authentic. You are definitely an interesting guy with a lot of experience in life. One reason I read and post on this forum is because of the knowledge of people here, Cricket and otherwise, is really of high quality. I read Cricinfo too, for fun, but don’t really find anything useful, except of course the ball by ball of live matches.

Omer Admani

Once bitten twice shy? Especially when you have not been hurt from behind why are you so wary of Pathans? First of all whether he was a Pathan, Sindhi, Balochi or Punjabi he did the right thing by running away because, you don’t know the mob sentiments when accidents happen in India – Pakistan, the first thing they do is beat the driver to death and burn the car. You are lucky that you were in the car and survived, perhaps it is your “Puppoo Face” that saved you.

Perhaps you are not aware of the Pathan hospitality, even if his enemy comes into his house and ask Pathan for shelter, they offer him shelter, food and comfort. Dushmani Ghar kay baahar hai ander nahee.

I would like to ask Javed bhai with all politeness that Who has asked them to Over-Rate him? Varun

No one dictates them yet they write because:

1. They feel proud and express their sentiments
2. They write because they want to be read and appreciated that they have written a wonderful piece.
3. They write because people want to read about their hero, their GOD.
4. They write because they are paid and are doing a job ………

There are hundreds of reasons Varun and the biggest reason is Tendulkar’s stats are the highest and no one can deny about it and that is why they all suck up to him and butter him and, not just him but they do it for the masses and that is how it looks like over rated and exaggerated.

The point that Omer Admani is trying to make is it is not just about the quantity but, the quality and, that counts, it is the pressure situations under which those runs were made that count and against the superior bowling attack that counts and on the pitches that are difficult to score, that counts and most importantly, when you are playing for the team and not for your record, that counts.

As regards the Australian, South Africans and English experts who shower praises and accolades, have you ever, ever, ever noticed when they do this? They NEVER, NEVER, NEVER say this when they are in their country, (except for Bradman) they ALL say something in praise when their sides are touring India or they are in India for something or the other like IPL or some award ceremony etc. This way they get good coverage from the media and they get VIP treatment. Even Wasim Akram does that and he knows which side of the bread to butter.

As regards Sehwag, agreed that guy has no footwork but, he is a very good entertainer and the difference between him and Shahid Afridi is, Afridi doesn’t stop he wants to go boom, boom, boom and out. Whereas, Sehwag attacks and then takes a pause, keeps his emotions under control and then attacks again. I have seen him time and again doing this and it works for him and it is a sensible thing to do i.e., to attack sensibly and not “andhaa-dhoon” that is why Afridi is not as consistent as Sehwag.

Javed Khan,

“Perhaps you are not aware of the Pathan hospitality, even if his enemy comes into his house and ask Pathan for shelter, they offer him shelter, food and comfort. Dushmani Ghar kay baahar hai ander nahee.”

Indeed, a pathan doesn’t know friend or foe in war or love

Just joking..

I don’t even know why this point of over rating a player and exaggerating someone’s records in this case Tendulkar is a point of discussion at all because this is not something only for Tendulkar you will find all sorts of journalists and writers favouring a player because of some reason other than Cricket and Usually they will write everything positive about them and exaggerate their records. When someone praises Tendulkar he does not have to fake anything there is so much to pick from the Stats but only when you don’t like him for some reason or the other or you never really enjoyed his play for some reason or the other or you are really irked by the wholesome praise and affection he generates from all corners of the Cricketing World, Only then and I reiterate Only then One would ever raise this point of overrating and exaggerating his Stats.

His 20 Year Record speaks for himself and whoever believes that he has ever played for himself is again trying to find a fault or some way to get to the Little Master. If you find a fault in him then why don’t you just realise that he is also a human being and not a GOD and if his fans and supporter over rate or exaggerate about him then that should not be a cause of botheration to you. Even though I am a very harsh critic of the whole Mumbai Lobby in Indian Cricket but he is an exception and above all the people who indulge in petty politics.

Varun

It is not the case of fans and supporters but, the whole of the Indian media goes on and, on and, on that irks some people and one starts saying, ub bus bhee kero yaar, kitna charhao gay usko? There is a limit but, in his case there is no limit. Neither Omer Admani, nor myself ever said that Tendulkar is not a good player, he is a very good player and statistically he is above all, but that is not the only criteria to judge him as the best batsman in the world and neither of us are picking up Lara just to undermine Tendulkar. The fact is Lara does have some unique records.

I am not Imran Khan to say Inzamam is better than Tendulkar i.e., just to create a senseless debate, Inzamam in someways has proved to be better than Tendulkar i.e., when playing under pressure and they are both different kinda players and that is just one aspect.

I feel that, Lara despite having some exceptional qualities and exceptional records did not get that much coverage as Tendulkar got and, Omer Admani has dug up some very interesting statistics (not simply copy pasted) by highlighting the fact which are missing in record books i.e., by pointing out when McGrath was not playing or, when Shane Warne was not in the team and what were the averages then?

Javed,

Indian media is over the top, this is a fact, they go on and on in adulation of their heroes, and Tendulkar certainly is on the top of the class in that list. Others include movie stars, politicians, models, and other such celebrities. Ever head of “King Khan”? sure everyone know as I am talking about SRK, who came up with this hyperbole adjective? India media, they could make a mediocre actor with limited skills and physique into “King Khan”, but of course they are not the ones how made him that, it’s the public who rushes into movie halls to watch what Bollywood produces.

I do enjoy Bollywood movies for sure, but I’ll never fawn over a movie star and worship him/her like the average Indian, take for instance Aishwarya Rai, another actress with mediocre acting skills, looks where she reached and how India media treats her.

If you analyze this mentality further you will see that there is a bit of servitude here, a left off from the Colonial Raj where ordinary Indians fawn over the “Gora Sahibs”, it’s still deep ingrained in the Indian psyche. I do not know if this exists in Pakistan, I am sure there is some of it, after all Pakistanis share the same history of bondage and servitude to the “Angrezi” masters.

What is the connection here? it’s the attitude to serve a greater human being, to bow down and praise another person. It’s just my opinion of course, but part of it is that for sure.

This is one of the many social shortcomings that makes me not go back to India and settle back there, I cannot live in a society where there is huge class differentiation and some people are praised like god, everything has to have a limit.

Coming back to Tendulkar though, this is not his fault, on the contrary despite all this, he has remained a very humble person, you got to give him credit for that. He may not be all that the India media write up about him, and surely they could give a bit more credit to Brian Lara and Ricky Ponting, but we should not penalize Tendulkar for this.

I still think Lara and Tendulkar are equals, I don’t think Sehwag can be rated higher even though he may be a better match winner, Lara has some achievements that Tendulkar do not have (mainly contributions in winning situations, higher individual scores), and Tendulkar has some that Lara do not (more centuries, more technically correct).

I am even willing to let go and agree Lara is better, because for all I care Lara is such a master batsman that it is no shame if he ends up edging out Tendulkar, bottom line both have a place in cricket history and there isn’t a lot of day light between them.

Finally, Tendulkar has disappointed Indian fans on many occasions, personally I have a few matches that I can pick. I am older than Tendulkar and I have watched his progress since the time he made his debut, in fact I watches that test series live, same match where Waqar made his debut as well. When I was young the arrival of Tendulkar to Indian cricket was greeted with a lot of expectations. Many Indians including myself expected him to win matches single handed, and he did so in many matches, but we wanted more from him, we wanted him to win more important matches.

For instance, I recall at least two CBFS cup finals in Sharjah between India and Pakistan where I hoped Tendulkar will win the match for India, he did not, I remember a match very vividly where Pakistan batted first and scored 250 odd, India started the chase and Tendulkar was opening, he made some great shots against Wasim Akram, I remember one shot where he cover drove Akram for four followed by a straight drive, Akram was shaking his head after that in disbelief, there was nothing wrong with the deliveries, in fact Akram was trying his best, yet Tendulkar made those shots, but soon after he got out trying to play another shot, he did not go beyond 30 odd runs while he needed to get a hundred to win that match, soon after that proceedings quietened as mediocre guys like Sidhu and Azhar were batting and India lost that match.

I could not finish my earlier post, I wanted to conclude with another paragraph. So here goes.

After the failures in the CBFS series I started having the realization that may be Tendulkar is not super human after all, but part of me still wanted him to win big matches, 96′ World Cup semi final against Sri Lanka was one such match. Batting second was so difficult, or so it appeared, that only Tendulkar could have won that match, he made 65 or so out of 120 odd that India made by the time Begali hooligans ended the match in the most shameless manner, but again Tendular did not get a big hundred and win the match. There were a few more, after that I lost faith in Tendulkar being able to win big matches for India and I lost faith in India’s ability to win big games, around the same time I also left India and soon lost touch with cricket, for a while, this is the same time frame when Tendulkar made progress as a batsman and he made many meaningful innings in Test cricket, and soon was joined by Ganguly, Dravid, and Laxman, I missed all of those years, but I came back to find out from archives, thanks to Internet you have things like YouTube.

I have been back following all cricket for the last 3 years or so, and I have matured as a cricket fan, I no longer expect Tendulkar to win all matches, not even big matches, I don’t expect India to win all games, I know their limitations, I also know other teams and their skills and weaknesses, I just enjoy the games on their merit. Some things have changed though, India wins more matches than they lose now against quality opposition, Tendulkar also started contributing to winning big games.

For instance, he won the CB series finals in Australia by hitting a hundred in first final, followed by a 90+ score in second final. He contributed to a series win in New Zealand, a very difficult place for sub-continental teams to win, his 163 not out in a ODI was a masterclass innings. He also made a hundred in the recent Compaq cup final in SL. Overall, Tendulkar is still around and he is winning matches now more than before, more importantly he is helping win big matches now.

He is not yet done, this is where his true greatness comes in, so perhaps we are too early in judging him, there may yet be some innings left in him to play, at least one hopes so. If not, he has still achieved everything he could possibly, given of course there are human limitations.

Here is something outrageous:

http://www.shtfplan.com/marc-faber/marc-faber-gold-to-1-trillion-an-ounce-bloomberg-february-6-2009_02152009#

This might be unrealistic, but if the dollar were to collapse, then the only store of value in the world would be gold, and there would be a rush for gold around the world. Even if this view is non-true, consider a low-probability event — gold shoots and dollar collapses, say gold becomes 4, 5 times, or 10 times, then the Indians, not the Chinese could be the richest people in the world:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Which_country_has_largest_private_gold_holding

Perhaps the US and the Chinese are really playing a giant ponzi scheme, but the Chinese have no backup defense should everything go amiss, whereas the US central bank still owns a lot of gold (probably there is also a lot mor eprivately held gold in the US):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_gold_reserves

Also, from the above link, if the total gold ever mined is 158000 tonnes, and if that link about India’s private holding of the gold is true, then India would account for perhaps about 40000 tonnes of gold (or maybe 60000-70000), or 1/4th (or 40-45 percent) of the world’s value should everything else fall apart!

If this is true, then the US can’t be unaware of the fact because of medicare, social security, all the debt accumulated now, it will default its debt at some point in time. On the basis of the above low-probability outcome above, then, is the US and China really together in this, and the real target country is India?
It is most likely not true, but then again, the US might be hedging its bet by mantaining its presence in that region!

And could it be that Indians are having strong economic growth since the past decade just because of the rising value of gold? If gold is rising, then there must be some economic gain in that…even if gold is worthless in itself in the sense that it doesn’t grow, the fact that it has quadrapled in the last decade would at least have some internal consequences on growth in India: At least so long as it is a store of value, it can act as collateral to acquire capital which can be used for growth, or in some other form value can act as capital to attract growth?

The US will not default its debt*, but print money to pay it, thereby dollar losing value dramatically and a global flight for gold. On the other hand, it may not be a dramatic outcome, but a long-drawn out process. In that case, too, gold will keep on rising, the value of equity held by Indians will rise, and Indians will get richer. This rise in equity will somehow have to transmit into growth as the capital to produce or consume increases…and whom will the Chinese sell their mass-produced, cheap goods to? The Indians?

In other words, all the outcomes above are possible, but should the dollar collapse in a long-drawn out process or in a dramatic few days or months, Indians have got to be the richest people in the world!

This is the most amazing article I have read, though despite the gloom and doom, it has clearly be written during the housing bubble, but the first part of it has precisely unfolded as the article has it…would the second part, too, unfold in the same way, since the author has made the correct prediction of housing collapse, and the US providing its version of heroin by printing money– what happens thereafter remains to be seen:

——————————————————————————–

What is a fiat currency?

A currency that’s created and controlled by a government. In other words, it exists by government “fiat.” Using the dollar as an example, the U.S. Federal Reserve creates new dollars simply by printing them or injecting electronic “reserves” into the banking system. The supply of dollars thus depends on the decisions of our elected officials and their appointed administrators like the governors of the Fed.

An example of a non-fiat currency would be the gold and silver coins that used to circulate in much of the world. There was only so much of each metal, and the supply only increased when some enterprising miner discovered and dug up more. Governments were unable to create this kind of money out of thin air.

Like the dollar, today’s euro, Japanese yen, and British pound are all fiat currencies. And—here’s the crucial point—every single fiat currency that has existed prior to the current batch was eventually destroyed by its government.

——————————————————————————–

Why do fiat currencies always fail?

Put simply, governments are fundamentally incapable of maintaining the value of their currencies. Every leader, whether king, president or prime minister, serves at the pleasure of two powerful constituencies: Taxpayers irate about what they currently pay and violently opposed to paying more, and recipients of government help who demand vastly greater levels of spending on everything from defense, to roads, to old age pensions. Alienate either group, and the result can be an abrupt career change.

So our hypothetical leader finds himself with two choices, the most obvious of which is to level with his constituents and explain that there’s no such thing as a free lunch. Taxes are the price of civilization, but government largess can consume only so much of a healthy economy’s output, so no one person or group can have all they want. This looks simple on paper, but in the real world it opens the door to challenge from rivals who have no qualms about promising whatever is necessary to gain power.

Not liking this prospect at all, our leader then turns to his remaining option: Borrow to finance some new spending without raising taxes. Then create enough new currency to cover the resulting deficit. The anti-tax and pro-spending folks each get what they want, and no one notices, for a while at least, the slight decline in the value of each individual piece of currency caused by the rising supply. Human nature being what it is, every government eventually chooses this second course. And the result, almost without exception, is a gradual loss of confidence in the value of each national currency, which we now know as inflation.

But a little inflation, like a little heroin, is seldom the end of the story. Over time, the gap between tax revenue and the demands placed on government tends to grow, and spending, borrowing and currency creation begin to expand at increasing rates. Inflation accelerates, and the populace comes to see the process of “debasement” for what it is: the destruction of their savings. They abandon the currency en mass, spending it or converting it to more stable forms of money as fast as possible. The currency’s value plunges (another way of saying prices soar), wiping out the accumulated savings of a whole generation. Such is the eventual fate of every fiat currency. “The Coming Collapse of the Dollar” tells the stories of five of the more spectacular currency crises, but like I said, they all go this way eventually.

——————————————————————————–

Why will the dollar be the first of today’s fiat currencies to collapse?

For the past few decades, the U.S. has enjoyed an historically unique position. As the most powerful nation in an increasingly globalized world, its currency, the dollar, is in demand as a store of value. That is, investors and central banks in other countries want to hold dollars as alternatives to their own, presumably less stable currencies. This insatiable demand for dollars has handed U.S. consumers and governments a virtually unlimited credit card. And we’ve spent the past two decades maxing it out.

The U.S. is now the world’s biggest debtor nation, and our current economic expansion is only possible because Japan, China, and Europe are willing to finance our trade deficit by, in effect, lending us $800 billion a year. They do this by taking the dollars we pay for their Toyotas, French wine and Chinese electronics, and using them to buy U.S. bonds and other financial assets.

Add it all up, and U.S. debt now comes to about $45 trillion, or $600,000 per family of four, a clearly unsustainable burden. When our trading partners figure out that we’re no longer solvent, they’ll stop lending us money (that is, they’ll use their dollars to buy euros or yen or gold rather than U.S. bonds), and the value of the dollar will plunge. The process has already begun, with decreasing demand for dollars sending the value of the dollar down by about a third in the past three years. But this is just the beginning.

——————————————————————————–

What happens when the dollar collapses?

Many things, most of them bad. When foreign investors and central banks stop demanding dollars, U.S. bond prices will fall, which is another way of saying that U.S. interest rates will rise. Mortgage and credit card rates will soar, bursting the housing bubble. Home prices in hot markets like California and New York will fall by 50% or more in a matter of months, bankrupting millions of over-extended homeowners. The U.S. government will respond by opening the monetary floodgates, printing as many paper dollars as necessary to keep the economy from collapsing. This surge in supply will send the value of the dollar through the floor. Prices for most things will skyrocket, and people whose life savings are in cash, bank CDs or dollar-denominated bonds, will be wiped out. Most U.S. consumer finance companies will be ruined, along with their stockholders.

THEN the Dollar Disease will go global. The only reason Japan or Europe have been able to generate their current meager rates of growth is the willingness of U.S. consumers to buy their Hondas and BMWs. As the dollar plunges, Asian and European goods, priced in suddenly-appreciating currencies, will become prohibitively expensive for U.S. consumers, who will respond by buying U.S.-made alternatives or nothing at all. Correctly interpreting this change in buying patterns as a threat to their vital export sectors, European and Asian leaders will respond with the only weapon they have left: monetary inflation. They’ll cut interest rates and buy dollars with their currencies, flooding the world with euros and yen the way the U.S. now floods the world with dollars. The result of these “competitive devaluations” will be a death spiral for all major fiat currencies, in which European and Japanese bonds will, eventually, fare as badly as their U.S. cousins.

——————————————————————————–

Why will gold go up when the dollar goes down?

Until very recently, gold was humanity’s money of choice, for one very good reason: It exists in limited supply, and governments can’t make more of it, so its value tends to be stable. As paper currencies collapse, the world will look for alternatives, one of which is sure to be gold. Massive amounts of global capital will start chasing a very limited supply of gold, sending its value through the roof.

——————————————————————————–

Why will gold keep rising?

All the conditions that led to its tripling so far in this decade are still in place. The U.S. and Europe are still borrowing far more than they can ever hope to pay off, and financing the resulting debt with newly-created paper currency. Oil and other commodities are still in short supply, as demand from China and India soars. And almost without exception, the world’s leaders seem unable to grasp the risks inherent in paper currency that can be created in infinite quanties by government.

Three more reasons:

* Gold’s fundamentals are very positive. The world’s mines produce about 2,500 tonnes of gold a year, while demand for gold is currently running about 4,000 tonnes. And new demand from emerging countries like China and India is soaring.

* The Fear Index is flashing a “buy” signal. This index measures the financial markets’ anxiety about the dollar and the U.S. monetary and banking system, and in the twenty years since GoldMoney’s James Turk invented it, each of its “buy” signals has been followed by a marked, sometimes spectacular, increase in gold’s exchange rate. Chapter 11 of “The Coming Collapse of the Dollar” explains the Fear Index in detail, but for now suffice it to say continues to point to a rising gold price. Click on “Latest Charts” for the most recent Fear Index chart.

* Central bank manipulation is about to backfire. The world’s central banks, led by the U.S. Federal Reserve, have been making up the difference between mine production and gold demand by secretly dumping their gold on the market. They do this by lending their gold for a nominal interest rate to “bullion banks” like JP Morgan Chase and Citigroup, which then sell it and invest the proceeds at higher rates. Because the banks are obligated to return this gold to the central banks, they’re “short” the metal. At some point in the future they have to buy this gold back on the open market. If gold’s price is low, they make money, and if it’s high, they lose. Since it’s currently high and rising, these banks are looking at multi-billion dollar losses. And as these losses mount, the pressure grows to bite the bullet and close out their short positions by buying back their gold. When one bullion bank does this, the others will be forced to follow, producing a classic “short squeeze,” in which all the major bullion banks try to buy at once, sending gold through the roof. Chapter 12 of “The Collapse of the Dollar…” offers an overview of the central banks’ machinations. For a far more detailed treatment, see Sprott Asset Management’s 70-page report, “Not Free, Not Fair: The Long Term Manipulation of the Gold Price,” available at http://www.sprott.com.

Add it all up–favorable demand trends, a Fear Index buy signal, and the coming central bank short squeeze–and the next few years should be spectacular for gold.

http://www.dollarcollapse.com/faq/

Wahh!! yaha to laraii ho rahi hay!!

You know what i tell you whose the best batsman:

1- Javed Khan
2- Omer Hamdani
3- aik aur….Khan sahab
4- Varun

Sorry for this ”bongii” i am half asleep, typing from my mobile, goodnight

Afridi shall be playing in for Australia and for South Africa as well. Although the reasons given is, “it will help him to gear up for the 2011 one day WC” but, in the process he would be making some good bucks.

Ijaz Ahmad has been appointed as coach for U-19 which is a strange move because, Ijaz is one of those who were banned from playing, representing or even coaching the national teams and that includes U-19. Also, recently he was jailed for not providing sufficient funds in his account and a Rs. 1.3 million cheque was bounced and he was jailed. Can’t they find any other person to coach the U-19 team?

Finally there is a strategic shift in the US policy towards Afghanistan. They have finallly realized– after many, many years– that the Taliban “is” Afghanistan (or we would think that now they have realized), the issue of terrorism has nothing to do with religious fanaticism– which is just an ideological motivator rather than the crucial force that drives people towards acts of terror– these are fighters and paid mercaneries. So, the US will pay them to be on their side.

But, in any case, we have to still try to comprehend the motivations of the US mission in Afghanistan in the first place. This war has no purpose whatsoever, at the least US invaded Iraq because Saddam Hussein delinked the price of oil from dollars to Euros and the US feared other Arab states following suit, but where is the endgame in Afghanistan, knowing that it can’t be “stable”, such has been its history. So, the question is, what might be the goals of the US in Afghanistan when it is understood that Afghanistan is the Taliban and the war has no concrete end and purpose:
1) The US fear that Afghanistan will destabilize Pakistan and an extreme goverment in Pakistan, with nuclear missles, would be dangerous for its larger interests. If this is true, however, then the US could choose a more easier path, that is to simply support Pakistan in fighting the Taliban from its borders, thereby reducing US costs in Afghanistan, and waging a more focused and effecient campaign through Pakistan,

Which brings us to the second possibility:

The US has larger term regional interests in Afghanistan. One possible reason among many is that after the decision to invade Iraq, the US has seen Iran’s influence grow on its eastern borders. In an era of diminishing global US influence, the US can easily use, at its behest, Pashtun mercaneries to act as a counterweight to Iran, thereby making it weaker. The ideological motivations wouldn’t be too difficult to transfuse as the Shia-Sunni divide would again provide ample motivation for the mercaneries to wage Jihad against Iran. Should the US choose this way, then it will also pit Pakistan against Iran– and it is possilble that Pakistan army might be complicit in this should it be getting paid well, too. Should the attacks inside Iran through Pakistan’s borders been seen within this light?

Varun

I think Dhoni and Raina have read your comments and not only pulled up their socks but even their undergarments. A century from Dhoni was long awaited and he wasn’t scoring much in the past, so now his confidence must be high after this innings. Also, this seems to be a one sided match. Australia hasn’t got a good record chasing 300 plus totals. Already the top three including Ricky Ponting are back so there is not much interest left in this match.

This is how India banks on their batting, their bowling is not that effective but, lucky lamboo got Shane Watson the first ball and Ricky was not happy with his LBW decision but, to me he was out.

About Pakistan cricket

YOUNUS KHAN or should I call him DRAMA KHAN? He has once again blabbered something new. “If my team and nation wants me to play T20, I will play.” WTF? He is a clown. In my opinion he should even retire from ODI’s and play just test cricket that’s all. There are two extremes to both Khan’s, Afridi doesn’t want to play test, he is such an idiot he wasted 4-5 years of his career by not playing seriously. He is a good test player but, his mindset is what people expect from him, boom boom Afridi. The culprit is Ravi Shastri who gave him this nick name of boom boom.

Javed,

Maybe you are right or maybe they wanted to welcome me as I have come to India today for 5-6 weeks to attend a few weddings in the family.

At the moment Hussey n White are still there and you can never trust the Indian Bowling so the match isn’t over yet!

So India won today, not only that, they completely outplayed Australia. Aussies are struggling with a young team and it’s not easy on sub-continental pitches. Still it’s not easy to win against them anytime, so credit goes to India for their all round performance. Seamers bowled really well too which is an encouraging sign.

But one cannot take too much from this performance, as it proves once again that Indian batsmen like Dhoni, Raina and Youvraj are kings of flat wicket batting, it is when times get tough like in South Africa recently that they have to prove they can do this there too.

Anyhow, 2011 WC is in sub-continent so the flat track bullies have a lot to look forward to.

Newguy,

It is true that with this team Australia should struggle in India. The most worrying thing probably for them is their pace bowling. Their bowlers are not as multi-skilled and used to pitches in India. Hence, Ponting, as a result, unlike Australia of old which concentrated mostly on taking wickets, has to field attritionally. Ironically, India is probably the worst place to be attritional, as if you dont take wickets, it is very hard to contain– not only because pitches are flat but because India has a very strong batting line-up. The batting line-up is also very complete in the sense that they have attacking and defensive players, a right balance, of good quality. Even if India is chasing 300, I’d back India to win. And though all credit should go to Dhoni–he won the match– Sehwag again provided that psychological advantage by scoring quick and killing Australian bowlers confidence, not allowing them to get on top after the first wicket fell.

Khansahab,

I was not comparing Sehwag with Ghambir, I was just emphasizing that the Indian team’s mentality changes when Sehwag plays, it becomes much more aggressive…just look at the team with Sehwag and without Sehwag, there is a huge difference. Sewag can provide the psychological advantage that Ghambir or most others batsmen can’t provide: Imagine if you were a bowler and you bowled the perfect ball, you hit the spot that the coaches make a living telling you about…and the batsman, without any fuss, technique, footwork, or effort, just standing on the crease, pulls you for a four or six. I don’t know about you, but I were a bowler, I’d hate the feeling. What goes through the bowler’s mind? What does he bowl next, wide, short, or a good ball? They are all good enough for a boundary, a six perhaps…here is where Sehwag psychologically kills bowlers, I have seen him do this against Pakistani bowlers– once Sehwag starts hitting bowlers, there line, length, and body language fall apart for the whole match. These are the ineluctibles of a player, but they make a huge, huge difference on the outcome of a match. I don’t mean all players should play like this, there are players which are naturally more defensive and they maximize the chances for the team in their own way, that is why team selection is so important: a balance has to be struck rather than expect players to change their styles or become floaters, as specialist players, whether aggressive or defensive, have the long-term likelihoods with them. In any case, that said, a player that demolishes the opposition with a 50+ average and a player that is much more subdued in his approach, the former is much more valuable for a team.

Omer,

For once I have to agree with you, Sehwag makes a huge psychological difference to the team make up. The problem for the bowler is that he does not indulge in mindless slogging, if that were the case the bowler will think anytime he will lose his wicket, he will block some balls, take some lazy singles, then out of the blues goes for sixes and fours when the bowler is least expecting it. It’s like he attacks then withdraw for a while to take rest then attack them again.

Last year Eng-Ind test in Chennai was won by Sehwag’s 80 odd runs, even though it was Tendulkar and Youvraj who did the completion job, it would not have been even thinkable without Sehwag. He just turned the match on it’s head after England declared, all the English bowlers were looking helpless, they didn’t know what hit them, and they didn’t know what to do, because Test matches are not played like that.

so in some aspects Sehwag is underrated, but this is fine, Indian media does a fine job of trumpeting a lot of it’s heros Let Sehwag go on unheralded, this might spur him on even further.

newguy

In response to your latest comment #135 please read the last paragraph of my comment of October 26, 2009 at 3:57 AM | #116

You are saying the same thing about Sehwag’s batting what I have said 3 days ago but, in different words.

khansahab

Gambhir has started playing steadily & consistently since the first T20 WC in SA, before that he wasn’t even noticeable. Agreed that he played consistently well in the past one year and also in the last 2 matches he scored sixty plus runs. But, in the first match when Sehwag scored only 13 runs, Gambir’s 68 odd runs were not much of help and India lost the match. Whereas, when Sehwag scored a quick 40 runs the Indians were able to post 354 on the board and that is because the bowlers were demoralized and the momentum was never lost.

Tendulkar is in the playing XI simply because of his past glories, if there was any other opening batsman like Karthik or anyone, after two flop performances they would have dropped that opener, but Tendulkar will play in the next few matches they will not drop him, that is the difference between him and other players. If Tendulkar realizes this now that it is better for the team to have another batsman, then it is better now rather than realizing under pressure after a couple of more similar bad performances. I am sure if that happens, he will probably ask for a rest saying his elbow or his back is not 100%. I think he should do this sooner than later because, the series is leveled at the moment and he should make way for another player and Gambhir can get back and fit into his opening role with Sehwag.

Ps

Now that I have written something about Tendulkar, he will score in Mohali.

Javed, yes I read your post #116 and that was in my mind when I wrote the same thing but in different words, you can say I was influenced But I agree with it essentially, although I would say that is giving too much credit to Sehwag, I doubt he is that organized to pace an innings like that, he wants to hit sixes and fours more often than not and for whatever reason is not as successful on ODI/T20 as opposed to tests, I guess there is no limit on tests and the field settings are different, so this allows more free scoring.

As for Tendulkar, I think it is unfair to say he is there because of past glories, and you cannot compare him to just another opening bat like Karthik. He has been performing more often than not and scoring at a high rate when he does score a fifty or hundred. The last 3 ODIs he played he has failed, and the last big score he had was the 100 in Compaq cup final. And to an extend the opening batting combination looks somehow better with Sehwag/Gambhir. But regardless of all this, he is still the most successful ODI player and he along with Ganguly holds the record for most 100 partnership in ODIs, Tendulkar and Sehwag is also in the top ten 100 run partnerships in ODIs.

Tendulkar will not go on for too long without a big score, he will score either in Delhi or Mohali. Otherwise we might see him going out with an injury excuse

Everyone know Tendulkar is preserving himself to play for one for WC, he wants to play in 2011 and it is only good for India that he plays for as long as he can, if Sehwag or Gambhir were to get injured and cannot play then India has no other quality opener, they cannot depend on the likes of Karthik to open the innings.

Khansahab

Sehwag doesn’t make 25 regularly! Sehwag really expresses himself in test matches…he makes humongous scores..and if you notice the top 11 batsmen list I gave, I didn’t pick him as a stand-out batsmen in ODIs. I give a lot more weight to test matches and it is through that lens that I see one days. In the sense that a player like Sehwag who is great in test matches, and yet “can’t be detrimental in one days” holds his greatness. In other words, I see the potential upside of a player in test matches and the potential downside of a player in one days. If a player has a lot of upside in test matches, yet he is neutral in one days, then I consider the test matches only in judging his overall calibre. If, however, a player is really good in test matches, and can be detrimental to the team’s cause in one days, then, when talking about his overall calibre, you have to reduce a few points from the points you assign to his test ability (Therefore, I rate Kallis a bit lower, though he is probably (along with Ponting)the most consistent player in the last decade). This is for the reason that good test teams can never be bad one day teams, but good one day teams can be pretty ordinary test teams (The only exception could perhaps be England, but England is not really in the top 2,3 test teams either, they are a decent test team but not necessarily a really good test team).

Anyway, there is no comparison of Sehwag and Ghambir, Ghambir is probably playing at the height of his calibre…whereas when Sehwag has his good day, he will cover for Ghambir’s 2 or 3 good scores, so eventually Sehwag will balance out at an average which is pretty close to Ghambir’s, but the force of Sehwag’s runs and quality will always remain more.

Khansahab

Normally what Sehwag makes in five matches, Ghambir makes in 3 matches?

Sehwag averages more than Ghambir in test matches. In test matches you need that sort of brilliance to win. The Mohammad Hafeez’s and Shoaib Maliks just don’t win test matches.

Take the last few important series India has played:

Against England, like Newguy said, Sehwag made an impossible situation possible and won India the match. Incidentally, that match was the one that also decided the series. I don’t know how that that score of 90 runs is just another 90 run score– it is a special innings. This is what seperates Ghambir and Sehwag.

When Australia last visited India, just look at the second innings in this match:

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/345672.html

Sehgwag’s second innings contribution of 92 of 107 balls was crucial in deciding the match. If it weren’t there, Australia would have chased the score and drawn the series.

This 200 in this match, after India had lost the first match in the series, was decidedly the single most important factor in India winning the match.
http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/343730.html

Take this 319 away from India’s score, and there is a good chance that India would have lost the match, and hence the series, against South Africa:

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/332911.html

This doesn’t even consider the ineluctibles, that Sehwag can take away a bowler’s confidence with a dominating 40 or 50. Not onl that, he makes the ball older by smashing it around. The new batsman plays much more freely. At the same time, the team believes it can chase any score, a player like Sehwag gives the team a lot more belief and this transforms into an attacking mind-set. Ghambir is a very good player, but he hasn’t so far played any special innings. If Ghambir weren’t there, can another Ghambir be found? Possibly, some other Indian player, maybe who averages 2-3 less for the team, can be in his place, and for any 60 that Ghambir makes, maybe he will make 50 or 55. But can Sehwag be replaced? Very unlikely, it requires a gifted player to bat with that average in such a dominating fasion that opens the unlikeliest of possibilities for the team. There is a price for the rate at which you score and that is the “average” score you make. As the former increases, the latter decreases (generally). This is the way cricket works but Sehwag, with the run-rate he plays, has the same average as other great batsman. He is unique in that sense.
And test matches and series are decided by such innings (unlike one days in which 100s of matches are played), like I said a player like Sehwag can produce something special which can open possibilities for the team. The difference in Sehwag and Ghambir is that another Sehwag can’t be found, whereas there would be many Ghambirs on the streets of India, and in the nets with coaches, waiting to happen. Both type of players are needed by the team in their respective roles, that rather than six Sehwags you need, say, a few Ghambir’s in the team as well, but it is a lot more harder to find a Sehwag than a Ghambir. The teams that have
Sehwag-type players have a lot more possiblity, to win from very unlikely positions.

Omer,

Excellent post, your 141. You are right, another Sehwag can’t be found, and players like Sehwag can open up so many possibilities in the match. In the 2003 WC final, chasing Australia’s mammoth 340 odd score all Indian players fell under pressure, only Sehwag kept counter attacking and he made 82 runs at a fast rate, more importantly he would have thought there is a possibility for him to pull it off, while others would have mentally given up already.

Among former Indian players Kapil Dev used to be somewhat like this with his batting, he could pull off impossible situations and counter attack, although not as successful as Sehwag, but he was an all rounder. In one test match against England, India needed 24 runs to avoid follow-on, Kapil was with last man Narendra Hirwani who cannot be trusted to last 4 balls, Kapil hit 4 sixes off Eddie Hemmings, follow-on was avoided, in the first ball of next over Hirawni was out promptly. This kind special ability is there for some players, but you cannot replace them.

Lets talk about something different. Yesterday someone told me a news from Russia and it was fairly sad and hilarious same time. i will try to keep it short and interesting.

A dirty Russian wanted to forcibly stick his sinrod deep into a raccoon’s stink, but instead today the man finds himself penisless, the victim of a ferocious mauling by the teeth of his would-be furry victim.

Like so many stories that involve rape and pain, the backstory here started with a 44-year-old man named Alexander Kirilov and his best friends, who went out for a night.
Unlike millions of normal Jacks and Jills who hit the weekend bar to get away from it all, however, this Kirilov took getting messed up to an all new level.

As he staggered outside bar, likely in a side alley, Kirilov saw a raccoon who must have been seductively sauntering around a trashcan, teasing the Russian with its flowing furry locks and exposed backside.
Kirilov then reportedly leaped onto the animal, pinning it down and trying to rape the creature………….and what happened next i can feel pain even typing that

Moral of the story: Man Tries to Rape Raccoon, Raccoon Bites Man’s Penis Off

Khansahab

Lets switch the focus on bowlers now.

The 90s saw bowlers like Akram, Walsh, Ambrose, Waqar, Mcgrath, Donald, Pollock, even Akhter for awhile. We fleetingly saw Asif who was close to that standard, but can Asif survive on Pakistani pitches in the long-term (no doubt he is very skillful on pitches that offer a bit)?

However, it is hard to pick a modern bowler of that standard. What distinguished these bowlers from modern bowlers was that, on their good days, they would run through the side, they evoked fear, and the batsmen just tried to see through them. I remember when Ambrose used to bowl, there was fear in our minds as viewers that his one spell can finish the match. Pakistan would usually make 5-6 runs of his 6,7 overs and if less wickets were conceded, it was a good start. On the other hand, Mcgrath was the most effecient in terms wickets per runs (not only the wickets he took but the wickets others took because of his presence), and Waqar for a while went berserk. Wasim would bowl balls that inspired imagination, while Donald and Pollock were a very fine mix of aggression and attrition. However, the modern bowler is totally inept in this regard, he doesn’t dominate the batsman or evoke fear, and doesn’t produce spells which seal the fate of matches. For this reason, test cricket has become sterile and one day cricket is teetering towards its demise. The quality of bowlers have made cricket dull. The problem, in my opinion, is too much coaching. Pace bowlers, perhaps more so than batsmen, are made for their art: When coaches focus on line and length, the “perfect” actions, and “particular” type of balls, they tend to reistrict the bowlers imagination to what they should do from what they can do. In this process they transform what can be extraordinary to something that is “average” by drawing on these limitations. It serves the purpose, more and more attritional bowlers are produced, and it maximizes produce for the average bowler (if 100 bowlers go through this process, the average bowler would definitely get better, but the rate talents would be spoiled).

Besides this, if a bowler were to rely on his own self for his bowling, he would have to think himself about his bowling and learn about himself. As an example, hen a coach tells Umar Gul what to do, Umar Gul only knows that one thing, and when the unexpected happens or things don’t go as planned, he starts bowling pretty ordinary. Rana Naveed, on the other hand, is only in the team, or has any relationship with Pakistan cricket, because of his first name. In any case, I was reading this article that Wasim Akram was brought into the team without first-class cricket, while Waqar probably didn’t have to go through all the unnecessary coaching either. Hence, they had to rely on themselves to learn their art, which probably made them better bowlers.

I’d add though– the two bowlers that stand-out nowadays are Steyn and Jhonson. However, they aren’t at that standard either, they may be close in terms of averages (I don’t know theirs), but they don’t evoke the same fear of an Ambrose, Mcgrath, Wasim, Waqar, or Donald.

Pakistan has hope in forging a special pair, in Asif and Aamer, but the team management are probably busy courting Rana’s presence and the garbage he bowls.

Stats from Cricinfo article today on Sehwag vs. Gambhir this year in ODIs:

Sehwag – 521 runs at 52.10 avg and rate of 8.42 runs per over
Gambhir – 639 runs at 53.25 avg and rate of 5.61 runs per over

Gambhir scored 1 run per innings than Sehwag, but Sehwag scored at almost 3 more runs per over.

I didn’t know that Sehwag had an average of above 50 this year and his strike rate of over 8 runs per over is unbelievable at an average above 50.

So one has to admit, opposition team absolutely dreads Sehwag at the crease, you got to get him out as there is no win by attrition strategy with him, while with Gambhir they can still try to win by attrition.

Newguy30,

Those are unbelievable statistics. He plays as an opener, against the new ball, and smashes everyone around with that average. No wonder when he wasn’t there, India wasn’t able to qualify in the second rounds of Champions Trophy or 20/20 world cup. Such is his impact on the team.

This is why Pakistan should also send Afridi to open or one-down, letting him play his natural game. There are powerplays and if he can average even 20-30, that is a lot more than what he is doing down the order. And, those 20-30 runs will be a lot in raising the spirits of the team if made quickly.

Khansahab,

I guess I got the averages wrong as I didn’t check them (they are usually accurate when I post links), but the way Sehwag gets the runs is a story to be told. Anyway, Ghambir seems to me like a flat-track bully. I never used averages to make the point that Sehwag is better than Ghambir, I just meant that a player who is averaging above 50, he can’t be inconsistent. What I was trying to say was this, if Ghambir didn’t play then Dravid, Ganguly, and many other players could play in his place (who might average a few points more or less). But can you replace a matchwinner like Sehwag?

The second ponint about Sehwag that I have been making is that, there are ineluctibles, such as, destroying the bowlers’ confidence and providing your own team belief which make him stand apart. There are two battles going on the field, and one is pshychological…and Sehwag has the capability to destroy a bowler’s confidence. If you think of this in terms of bowlers, it might be more apparent. Didn’t Mcgrath make Gellespie, Brett Lee and many other bowlers look really, really good? It was the pressure that Mcgrath applied which helped others get wickets, and I remember, when Ambrose would bowl, even when he wouldn’t take wickets, there was so much pressure on the batsmen that when Simmons would come to bowl, he would take a flurry of wickets. Such is the psychological nature of the game..

Khansahab,

I remember when India played in NZ. The pitches were the flattest there could be. The commentators were saying that they had made it so, so that Kiwi bowlers learn to bowl on flat decks…Unsurprisingly, Sehwag didn’t find the motivation in a totally one sided series, and one in which, NZ couldn’t have conceivably bowled India out twice. Also, unsurprisingly, Ghambir availed the opportunity. To understand Sehwag’s mind-set, you have to realize that he needs motivation to perform as well. Otherwise he is totally apathetic. Against Bangladesh he averages very low because there is no motivation.

You are right, in SA he hasn’t performed, but it was around this period I think he was dropped. Ever since his re-emergence, he is been a totally different player and he will probably correct his low average in SA. In SA an average of 40-45 is pretty good, because the pitches are difficult to bat on.

You are right– both are very different players, and both are needed by a hypothetically perfect team, but there is only one Sehwag and Ghambir’s can be found all over the world. In fact I find Ghambir’s batting very boring, it is almost as if there is a bit of sadness about it, there is no point where Ghambir really expresses himself. In other words, Sehwag is always attacking, and there are other players like Lara, which start slowly, get set, and then dominate bowlers with ease. Ghambir starts the innings at the same standard and ends it at the same standard, I don’t think he will average this high in the long-run and win many matches, right now he is feeding on ordinary bowling or flat pitches.

Omer Admani

You don’t have to apologize to khansahab for quoting the stats of Gambhir and Sehwag and he is nailing you down with the figure that “Sehwag averages 50.06 in Tests whereas Gambhir averages 54.07.”

Actually, the important point to be noted here is Gambhir’s average is marginally high and it does not mean he is better than Sehwag. Because, Sehwag has played 69 test matches whereas, Gambhir has played only 25 test matches, almost one third of what Sehwag played. Let us see where Gambhir stands when he plays his 70th test match.

Remember, initially Mike Hussey was averaging in 80’s and now after playing 42 test matches his average has come down to 52. Whereas, Ricky Ponting after playing 136 test matches has an average of 55 and Tendulkar after playing 159 test matches has an average of 54.

Smile Omer and you may wink at khansahab Varun knew that I am behind you and you are unnecessary worried about me being a Pathan – behind you.

khansahab on that news about Malak, Akmal et Co. complaining about Younus Khan, all I have to say is: In Pakistan there are two things:

Dahshat Gardi
Punjab Gardi

They are just like a dog in the manger.

Javed Khan

I was just apologizing for the inaccuracy, sometimes I don’t confirm the numbers with cricinfo, but usually when I post links, the numbers are accurate.

Of course Ghambir’s innings aren’t worth the same as Sehwag and Ghambir has only played relatively less matches, mostly on flat wickets, and against bowlers which aren’t as good.

This is why I wrote the comment about the declining standards in world bowling. It is precisely because of this that one day cricket has become attritional and generally lacks the excitement that it used to have. It is no co-incidence that one day cricket was earnestly followed 8, 10 years before in that bowling standards of the world were much better. 20/20 cricket’s creation within this background makes sense as, if matches were to be about batsmen making runs and attritional bowlers, why not carve a format which focuses on the abundance of that only…

The ICC has shown minimal urgency in this regard. While they can’t tell the countries to avoid their infatuation with coaches, they can at the least make countries make more bowler-friendly tracks, so that it may spark a renewal in interest for fast bowling. We have seen how monotonous and boring cricket becomes without quality pace bowling, it becomes rythmic and removes the uncertainty that a quality fast bowler or an out-out pace bowler brings to the match.

The ICC is working like Wall Street has done, greed is killing the game. Long-term profitability is being exchanged for short-term gain. After a while, 20/20’s will also get boring and numb, unless cricket brings the unpredictability and excitement of fast bowlers back. Without that, the game is totally one-dimensional and long-term interest will eventually wane. If they really want to make even 20/20 interesting, it should be played on green tracks every once in awhile, so that at least bowlers win matches not by bowling attritionally but bowling good balls and with the intent to take wickets rather than contain.

When “a source” in a newspaper comes out with some ‘revelations’ there may be some validity there but it should be taken with a pitch of salt and considered in the backdrop of what comes out of the horse’s mouth himself. So, let’s see what Malik has to say himself about it all.
————————————————————————————-

Malik denies lobbying against Younus

Shoaib Malik has dismissed reports that he had led a group of players to the PCB Chairman to replace Younus Khan as captain.

Appearing on a popular talk show on the Geo Super channel, Malik also denied he had led any campaign to have Younus replaced as captain.

“Yes I did meet with the board Chairman but I never suggested to him to replace Younus nor supported the appointment of Afridi. That is not my job and you don’t change captains on minor issues. If we have any problems I can talk to Younus myself,” he said.

“They are minor issues but we solve them and we support each other. I know all the players back the captain as well. They are absolutely no groupings in the team. We are a like a unit,” he said.

Media reports and statements by Younus and Afridi had indicated that after the team returned home from the Champions Trophy, Malik had led a group of players to the PCB chairman and conveyed they didn’t want Younus to continue as captain.

Malik said neither he nor any player of the team was bothered by allegations or groupings or match fixing as these only surfaced when the team lost.

“Honestly speaking the players have become used to these stories. But I can say with certainty there is no match fixing taking place in our team and every player plays for his country with pride.”

“But everyone must remember that cricket is a sport and no team can win everyday. Defeat must be accepted sportingly.Even the World Champions Australia lost the other day to India does it mean they under-performed deliberately.”

Malik also welcomed the induction of young blood like Umar Akmal and Muhammad Aamer in the team but advised the upcoming players to make use of their good patch.
Malik was replaced as captain by the PCB earlier this year by Younus Khan after Pakistan lost a one-day home series to Sri Lanka.

Malik said he had no desire to run after the captaincy and was happy just playing as an ordinary member of the team.

“I am very much relieved these days. I don’t want to be captain again. When I had this responsibility there was lot of tension for me and my family as well. So I am just happy now to perform as a senior player and give my input to the captain and management when asked by them. I am definitely more relaxed now,” Malik said.

khansahab

That is the problem with India Pakistan media, fans and supporters that they start comparing the newbies with superstars and that is why most of them get rotten so soon. Saeed Ajmal, I can imagine he could say that but, Aamir I wasn’t expecting this from him. He should understand that he has just started his career and must not end up like Asaf. In India too, they do the same thing, when Raina played in Karachi and scored 80 odd runs they said, he is the new Tendulkar and that got into his head and that is why he was out of the scene for long time and now he is back again and I hope he believes he is Suresh Raina and not Sachin Tendulkar.

Talking of Tendulkar, he was playing OK but, his short legs couldn’t give him the speed that he wanted and was run out. India is in a bit of a trouble at the moment unless Dhoni and Yuvraj play them out of the woods.

Awas

Good to see you back, I hope you have solved your work issues and are on top of it? LOL at Malik’s statement that he doesn’t want to be captain again. Even he knows that he is not a captain’s material.

khansahab :
It said that the argument with Saeed Ajmal started when he said he was the new “Saqlain Mushtaq” and Younis told him to keep his feet on the ground. Whereas with Mohammad Aamir, Younis told him off for something and Aamir did not like it and said, “I am being compared with Wasim Akram and how can you speak to me like that?”

LOL .. amazing, the level of stupidity shown by these players, “I am compared to Wasim Akram how can you speak to me like that?” – this is a newcomer talking to his captain? unbelievable. Notwithstanding the hyperbole from the media there is always some truth in all that. These guys should play themselves for a few years and get a reputation for themselves, instead of being the next somebody.

LOL .. where do

khansahab

Seeing Australian batting and bowling in the current ODI series one can say Malik is not too optimistic to say ‘we can beat Australia in Australia. However, the same Australian team plays different when they are playing in their own backyard because there aren’t any flat tracks and the same fast bowlers will become unplayable for Pakistani Champions. I think Afridi should reconsider his stupid decision of opting out of the test squad. His previous record in test against Australia in Australia is very good.

It is very likely that India will win this series at least by 5-2 margin. Dhoni is back in form and his not outs will improve his average.

Khsansahab

I think these rumours are exagerrated to a large extent. You take any group of 11 people, minor things will always happen, and there is always a little bit of politics here and there. The good thing is that Misbah has been dropped from the team because he, in particular, was playing for averages and not for the team. Apart from that, Malik has shown form in that in the last test series he played, he made a century and then in the Champions Trophy he hit a century, too. However, between him and Fawad Alam, I’d rather play Fawad Alam, while, on the other hand, in test matches Afridi deserves his place. In any case, it is good to hear anything positive coming from a Pakistani player before the team’s visit to Australia, if you remember Inzamam sort of chickened out and didn’t play when Pakistan last visited Australia.

Javed Khan,

The difference between Indian players and Pakistani players is that, in India, the public and the media make them superstars as soon as they come to the team. In Pakistan, our players become superstars in their own mind. Raina was being compared to Tendulkar by the Indian media, they had found the new “saviour” of Indian cricket, but who compared Tanvir and Akram in Pakistan? It was he himself who came on tv and said it! Not unsurprisingly, Ajmal and Aamer have done the same, they have decided who they are before either of them has played 5 test matches.

Khansahab

I agree with you, he has made those centuries on flat pitches. Nevermind the test series one, but the one against India did win us the match and Pakistan qualified for the semi-finals (so unlike his other feats against Zimbabwe, that one counted). I don’t think it as significant how many matches a player scores in, as much as the quality of the runs that he makes. In any case, I know what you mean, there is a history of Malik not being able to perform on seaming tracks or difficult conditions. This is why I also said Fawad Alam is a better player than him, but aren’t you resigned to the fact, yet, that there is no way Malik will be replaced by Fawad Alam?

I do like some players more than others, but not because of any personal bias, but because they are matchwinners. Not only can matchwinners change the course of the match in a very short amount of time, but they also make the game look good and make it appealing.

As for Ghambir, I don’t think his batting is very appealing nor does he have much matchwinning capability. He is the sort of player who will start the innings at the same standard and end it at the same standard (like Malik, Hafeez, and others). I generally don’t associate “matchwinning” batsmen with that, because there are players who get set, and then play considerably better and faster, and there are those which set about demolishing the opposition from the start. On the other hand, Tendulkar is a great player (I never put Tendulkar and Ghambir in the same league), I just don’t think he is better than Lara, Sehwag, or Ponting.

Khansahab,

In a career of 25 matches, you know about Ghambir’s each and every innings. I was just pointing out Sehwag’s few innings, he probably has played many, many more decent knocks. It seems like you have been following Ghambir’s each and every innings pretty ardently, you should write his biography! The only 100s that you will probably have to add are the ones that he had made for his school team.

Anyway, that average in 25 matches is nothing special, Hussey was averaging in the 90s, Mohd Yousof has probably averaged in the 70s, 80s in the last 4,5 years, there are many others like Sanggkara which may have averaged a lot more than 56 over a span of 20-25 test matches (great batsmen like Sanggkara, Yousof, or Ponting can average in the region of 70-80 for a period of 20-25 matches, yet their overall averages converge around 55-56 over a much more prolonged period). We’ll compare him with sehwag when he has played enough matches, comparing him now with other greats is like comparing Yasir Arafat with Wasim Akram. Lets see where his average converges after he has played 60-70 tests.

Just in case, here is something little different then cricket:

UAE have opened a brand new Grand F-1 race circuit on Yas Island, Abu Dhabi.

The finals of the first ever Day-Night Formula 1 – Abu Etihad Airways Grand Prix 2009 will be held today at 17.00 pm (local time).

Have a look:

http://www.yasmarinacircuit.com/default.html

http://www.formula1.com/

PS: Seeing F-1 live for the first time in my life, was truly an exceptional and unforgetable experience.

Khansahab,

I am in your total agree on Malik.

Btw what happened to the politics page?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9451

Andrew Gavin Marshall

.
Global Research, July 10, 2008

Email this article to a friend
Print this article

Establishing an “Arc of Crisis”

Many would be skeptical that the Anglo-Americans would be behind terrorist acts in Iraq, such as with the British in Basra, when two British SAS soldiers were caught dressed as Arabs, with explosives and massive arsenal of weapons.[1] Why would the British be complicit in orchestrating terror in the very city in which they are to provide security? What would be the purpose behind this? That question leads us to an even more important question to ask, the question of why Iraq was occupied; what is the purpose of the war on Iraq? If the answer is, as we are often told with our daily dose of CNN, SkyNews and the statements of public officials, to spread democracy and freedom and rid the world of tyranny and terror, then it doesn’t make sense that the British or Americans would orchestrate terror.

However, if the answer to the question of why the Anglo-American invasion of Iraq occurred was not to spread democracy and freedom, but to spread fear and chaos, plunge the country into civil war, balkanize Iraq into several countries, and create an “arc of crisis” across the Middle East, enveloping neighboring countries, notably Iran, then terror is a very efficient and effective means to an end.

An Imperial Strategy

In 1982, Oded Yinon, an Israeli journalist with links to the Israeli Foreign Ministry wrote an article for a publication of the World Zionist Organization in which he outlined a “strategy for Israel in the 1980s.” In this article, he stated, “The dissolution of Syria and Iraq into ethnically or religiously unique areas such as in Lebanon is Israel’s primary target on the Eastern front. Iraq, rich in oil on the one hand and internally torn on the other is guaranteed as a candidate for Israel’s targets. Its dissolution is even more important for us than that of Syria. Iraq is stronger than Syria. In the short run, it is Iraqi power which constitutes the greatest threat to Israel.” He continued, “An Iraqi-Iranian war will tear Iraq apart and cause its downfall at home even before it is able to organize a struggle on a wide front against us. Every kind of inter-Arab confrontation will assist us in the short run and will shorten the way to the more important aim of breaking up Iraq into denominations as in Syria and Lebanon.” He continues, “In Iraq, a division into provinces along ethnic/religious lines as in Syria during Ottoman times is possible. So, three (or more) states will exist around the three major cities: Basra, Baghdad and Mosul and Shiite areas in the South will separate from the Sunni and Kurdish north.”[2]

The Iran-Iraq War, which lasted until 1988, did not result in Oded Yinon’s desired break-up of Iraq into ethnically based provinces. Nor did the subsequent Gulf War of 1991 in which the US destroyed Iraq’s infrastructure, as well as the following decade-plus of devastating sanctions and aerial bombardments by the Clinton administration. What did occur during these decades, however, were the deaths of millions of Iraqis and Iranians.

A Clean Break for a New American Century

In 1996, an Israeli think tank, the Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies, issued a report under the think tank’s Study Group on a New Israeli Strategy Toward 2000, entitled, “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm.” In this paper, which laid out recommendations for Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, they state that Israel can, “Work closely with Turkey and Jordan to contain, destabilize, and roll-back some of its most dangerous threats,” as well as, “Change the nature of its relations with the Palestinians, including upholding the right of hot pursuit for self defense into all Palestinian areas,” and to, “Forge a new basis for relations with the United States—stressing self-reliance, maturity, strategic cooperation on areas of mutual concern, and furthering values inherent to the West.”

The report recommended Israel to seize “the strategic initiative along its northern borders by engaging Hizballah, Syria, and Iran, as the principal agents of aggression in Lebanon,” and to use “Lebanese opposition elements to destabilize Syrian control of Lebanon.” It also states, “Israel can shape its strategic environment, in cooperation with Turkey and Jordan, by weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq — an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right — as a means of foiling Syria’s regional ambitions.”[3]

The authors of the report include Douglas Feith, an ardent neoconservative who went on to become George W. Bush’s Under Secretary of Defense for Policy from 2001 to 2005; David Wurmser, who was appointed by Douglas Feith after 9/11 to be part of a secret Pentagon intelligence unit and served as a Mideast Adviser to Dick Cheney from 2003 to 2007; and Meyrav Wurmser, David’s wife, who is now an official with the American think tank, the Hudson Institute.

Richard Perle headed the study, and worked on the Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board Advisory Committee from 1987 to 2004, and was Chairman of the Board from 2001 to 2004, where he played a key role in the lead-up to the Iraq war. He was also a member of several US think tanks, including the American Enterprise Institute and the Project for the New American Century.

The Project for the New American Century, or PNAC, is an American neoconservative think tank, whose membership and affiliations included many people who were associated with the present Bush administration, such as Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, John Bolton, Richard Armitage, Jeb Bush, Elliott Abrams, Eliot A. Cohen, Paula Dobriansky, Francis Fukuyama, Zalmay Khalilzad, I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby, Peter Rodman, Dov Zakheim and Robert B. Zoellick.

PNAC produced a report in September of 2000, entitled, “Rebuilding America’s Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources for a New Century,” in which they outlined a blueprint for a Pax Americana, or American Empire. The report puts much focus on Iraq and Iran, stating, “Over the long term, Iran may well prove as large a threat to US interests in the Gulf as Iraq has.”[4] Stating that, “the United States has for decades sought to play a more permanent role in Gulf regional security,” the report suggests that, “the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification,” however, “the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime change of Saddam Hussein.”[5]

Engineer a Civil War for the “Three State Solution”

Shortly after the initial 2003 invasion and occupation of Iraq, the New York Times ran an op-ed piece by Leslie Gelb, President Emeritus and Board Member of the US-based Council on Foreign Relations, the most influential and powerful think tank in the United States. The op-ed, titled, “The Three State Solution,” published in November of 2003, stated that the “only viable strategy” for Iraq, “may be to correct the historical defect and move in stages toward a three-state solution: Kurds in the north, Sunnis in the center and Shiites in the south.” Citing the example of the break up of Yugoslavia, Gelb stated that the Americans and Europeans “gave the Bosnian Muslims and Croats the means to fight back, and the Serbs accepted separation.” Explaining the strategy, Gelb states that, “The first step would be to make the north and south into self-governing regions, with boundaries drawn as closely as possible along ethnic lines,” and to “require democratic elections within each region.” Further, “at the same time, draw down American troops in the Sunni Triangle and ask the United Nations to oversee the transition to self-government there.” Gelb then states that this policy “would be both difficult and dangerous. Washington would have to be very hard-headed, and hard-hearted, to engineer this breakup.”[6]

Following the example of Yugoslavia, as Gelb cited, would require an engineered civil war between the various ethnic groups. The US supported and funded Muslim forces in Bosnia in the early 1990s, under the leadership of the CIA-trained Afghan Mujahideen, infamous for their CIA-directed war against the Soviet Union from 1979-1989. In Bosnia, the Mujahideen were “accompanied by US Special Forces,” and Bill Clinton personally approved of collaboration with “several Islamic fundamentalist organisations including Osama bin Laden’s al Qaeda.” In Kosovo, years later, “Mujahideen mercenaries from the Middle East and Central Asia were recruited to fight in the ranks of the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) in 1998-99, largely supporting NATO’s war effort.” The US Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), the British Secret Intelligence Services (MI6), British SAS soldiers and American and British private security companies had the job of arming and training the KLA. Further, “The U.S. State Department listed the KLA as a terrorist organization, indicating that it was financing its operations with money from the international heroin trade and loans from Islamic countries and individuals, among them allegedly Usama bin Laden,” and as well as that, “the brother of a leader in an Egyptian Jihad organization and also a military commander of Usama bin Laden, was leading an elite KLA unit during the Kosovo conflict.”[7]

Could this be the same strategy being deployed in Iraq in order to break up the country for similar geopolitical reasons?

The Asia Times Online reported in 2005, that the plan of “balkanizing” Iraq into several smaller states, “is an exact replica of an extreme right-wing Israeli plan to balkanize Iraq – an essential part of the balkanization of the whole Middle East. Curiously, Henry Kissinger was selling the same idea even before the 2003 invasion of Iraq.” It continued, “this is classic divide and rule: the objective is the perpetuation of Arab disunity. Call it Iraqification; what it actually means is sectarian fever translated into civil war.”[8]

In 2006, an “independent commission set up by Congress with the approval of President George W Bush,” termed the “Baker Commission” after former Secretary of State, James Baker, “has grown increasingly interested in the idea of splitting the Shi’ite, Sunni and Kurdish regions of Iraq as the only alternative to what Baker calls ‘cutting and running’ or ‘staying the course’.”[9]

It was also reported in 2006 that, “Iraq’s federal future is already enshrined within its constitution, allowing regions to form, if not actually prescribing how this should happen,” and that, “the Iraqi parliament (dominated by Shi’a and Kurds) passed a bill earlier this month [October, 2006] allowing federal regions to form (by majority vote in the provinces seeking merger).” Further, “The law, which unsurprisingly failed to win Sunni support, will be reviewed over the next 18 months in a bid to bring its opponents round.” The article, however, stated that instead of a three state solution, “a system based upon five regions would seem to have more chance of succeeding. A five-region model could see two regions in the south, one based around Basra and one around the holy cities. Kurdistan and the Sunni region would remain, but Baghdad and its environs would form a fifth, metropolitan, region.”[10] The author of the article was Gareth Stansfield, an Associate Fellow at Chatham House think tank in London, which preceded, works with and is the British equivalent of the Council on Foreign Relations.

“Ethnic Cleansing Works”

In 2006, the Armed Forces Journal published an article by retired Lieutenant-Colonel Ralph Peters, titled, “Blood Borders: How a better Middle East would look.” In the article, Peters explains that the best plan for the Middle East would be to “readjust” the borders of the countries. “Accepting that international statecraft has never developed effective tools — short of war — for readjusting faulty borders, a mental effort to grasp the Middle East’s “organic” frontiers nonetheless helps us understand the extent of the difficulties we face and will continue to face. We are dealing with colossal, man-made deformities that will not stop generating hatred and violence until they are corrected.” He states that after the 2003 invasion, “Iraq should have been divided into three smaller states immediately.” However, Iraq is not the only country to fall victim to “Balkanization” in Peters’ eyes, as, “Saudi Arabia would suffer as great a dismantling as Pakistan,” and “Iran, a state with madcap boundaries, would lose a great deal of territory to Unified Azerbaijan, Free Kurdistan, the Arab Shia State and Free Baluchistan, but would gain the provinces around Herat in today’s Afghanistan.” Further, “What Afghanistan would lose to Persia in the west, it would gain in the east, as Pakistan’s Northwest Frontier tribes would be reunited with their Afghan brethren.” Peters states that “correcting borders” may be impossible, “For now. But given time — and the inevitable attendant bloodshed — new and natural borders will emerge. Babylon has fallen more than once.” He further makes the astonishing statement that, “Oh, and one other dirty little secret from 5,000 years of history: Ethnic cleansing works.”[11]

The map of the re-drawn Middle East, initially published alongside Peters’ article, but no longer present, “has been used in a training program at NATO’s Defense College for senior military officers. This map, as well as other similar maps, has most probably been used at the National War Academy as well as in military planning circles.”[12] Nafeez Mossadeq Ahmed wrote of Peters’ proposal, that “the sweeping reconfiguration of borders he proposes would necessarily involve massive ethnic cleansing and accompanying bloodshed on perhaps a genocidal scale.”[13]

Federalism or Incremental Balkanization?

A month before Peters’ article was published, Leslie Gelb of the Council on Foreign Relations, and Joseph Biden, a Democratic member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, wrote an op-ed for the New York Times, in which they stated, “America must get beyond the present false choice between “staying the course” and “bringing the troops home now” and choose a third way that would wind down our military presence responsibly while preventing chaos and preserving our key security goals.” What is this third option? “The idea, as in Bosnia, is to maintain a united Iraq by decentralizing it, giving each ethno-religious group—Kurd, Sunni Arab and Shiite Arab—room to run its own affairs, while leaving the central government in charge of common interests.”

They describe a few aspects of this plan. “The first is to establish three largely autonomous regions with a viable central government in Baghdad. The Kurdish, Sunni and Shiite regions would each be responsible for their own domestic laws, administration and internal security. The central government would control border defense, foreign affairs and oil revenues.” Then, “The second element would be to entice the Sunnis into joining the federal system with an offer they couldn’t refuse. To begin with, running their own region should be far preferable to the alternatives: being dominated by Kurds and Shiites in a central government or being the main victims of a civil war.”[14]

In testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 2007, Leslie Gelb stated that his plan for “federalizing” Iraq, “would look like this: The central government would be based on the areas where there are genuine common interests among the different Iraqi parties. That is, foreign affairs, border defense, currency and, above all, oil and gas production and revenues.” And, “As for the regions, whether they be three or four or five, whatever it may be, it’s up to—all this is up to the Iraqis to decide, would be responsible for legislation, administration and internal security.”[15]

The Senate subsequently passed a nonbinding resolution supporting a federal system for Iraq, which has still yet to be enacted upon, because it stated that this resolution was something that had to be enacted upon by the Iraqis, so as not to be viewed as “something that the United States was going to force down their throats.” Further, “when Ambassador Ryan Crocker appeared before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he testified in favor of federalism. In his private conversations with senators, he also supported the idea,” yet, while in Baghdad, the Ambassador “blasted the resolution.”[16] Could this be a method of manipulation? If the American Embassy in Baghdad promotes a particular solution for Iraq, it would likely be viewed by Iraqis as a bad choice and in the interest of the Americans. So, if the Ambassador publicly bashes the resolution from Iraq, which he did, it conveys the idea that the current administration is not behind it, which could make Iraqis see it as a viable alternative, and perhaps in their interests. For Iraqi politicians, embracing the American view on major issues is political (and often actual) suicide. The American Embassy in Baghdad publicly denouncing a particular strategy gives Iraqi politicians public legitimacy to pursue it.

This resolution has still not gone through all the processes in Congress, and may, in fact, have been slipped into another bill, such as a Defense Authorization Act. However, the efforts behind this bill are larger than the increasingly irrelevant US Congress.

Also in 2007, another think tank called for the managed “break-up of Iraq into three separate states with their own governments and representatives to the United Nations, but continued economic cooperation in a larger entity modeled on the European Union.”[17] In a startling admission by former US Ambassador to the United Nations, John Bolton, stated in 2007 that the “United States has “no strategic interest” in a united Iraq,” and he also suggested “that the United States shouldn’t necessarily keep Iraq from splitting up.”[18]

Conclusion

Clearly, whatever the excuse, or whatever the means of dividing Iraq, it is without a doubt in the Anglo-American strategy for Iraq to balkanize the country. Saying that what is being proposed is not balkanization, but federalism, is a moot point. This is because reverting to a more federal system where provinces have greater autonomy would naturally separate the country along ethno-religious boundaries. The Kurds would be in the north, the Sunnis in the centre, and the Shi’ites in the south, with all the oil. The disproportionate provincial resources will create animosity between provinces, and the long-manipulated ethnic differences will spill from the streets into the political sphere. As tensions grow, as they undoubtedly would, between the provinces, there would be a natural slide to eventual separation. Disagreements over power sharing in the federal government would lead to its eventual collapse, and the strategy of balkanization would have been achieved with the appearance of no outside involvement.

I posted the above link because the writer, Andrew Marshall, has made some points about the Mumbai attacks, which are being cited in the media to show that the Mumbai attacks had some other motives. In any case, at the time I had argued that the death of the honest police officer investigating the link between RSS, Indian Army Personall, and Hinduvita ideology being a co-incidence are hard to believe. This Indian writer completely rejects the Indian goverment view in light of subsequent evidence (nevermind his angle or the view he takes, we can just concentrate on the evidence he cites):

Mumbai Terror Attack: Further Evidence Of The Anglo-American-Mossad-RSS Nexus

By Amaresh Misra

03 December, 2008
Countercurrents.org

Now who has the last laugh? That is the question; I only have pity for those who cannot see reality and who were so glib to buy into what the media and political troubleshooters were saying about the Mumbai terrorist attacks.

Consider this:

As a BBC report notes, at least some of the Mumbai attackers were not Indian and certainly not Muslim.Pappu Mishra, a cafe proprietor at the gothic Victorian Chattrapati Shivaji Terminus railway station, described “two sprightly young men dressed in black” with AK47s who were “foreign looking, fair skinned.”Gaffar Abdul Amir, an Iraqi tourist from Baghdad, saw at least two men who started the firing outside the Leopold Cafe. “They did not look Indian, they looked foreign. One of them, I thought, had blonde hair. The other had a punkish hairstyle. They were neatly dressed,” Amir told the BBC.

According to Andrew G. Marshall, the ISI “has long been referred to as Pakistan’s ’secret government’ or ’shadow state.’ It’s long-standing ties and reliance upon American and British intelligence have not let up, therefore actions taken by the ISI should be viewed in the context of being a Central Asian outpost of Anglo-American covert intelligence operations.”The presence of “foreign looking, fair skinned” commandos who calmly gunned down dozens of people after drinking a few beers indicates that the Mumbai attacks were likely the work of the Anglo-American covert intelligence operatives, not indigenous Indian Muslims or for that matter Arab al-Qaeda terrorists. The attacks prepare the ground for the break-up of Pakistan and the furtherance of destabilizing terrorism in the Middle East and Asia. The Mumbai attacks had little to do with India or the relationship between Muslim Pakistanis and Hindu Indians.”Pakistan’s position as a strategic focal point cannot be underestimated. It borders India, Afghanistan, China and Iran,” concludes Marshall. “Destabilizing and ultimately breaking Pakistan up into several countries or regions will naturally spread chaos and destabilization into neighboring countries. This is also true of Iraq on the other side of Iran, as the Anglo-American have undertaken, primarily through Iraq, a strategy of balkanizing the entire Middle East in a new imperial project.” (See Marshall’s Divide and Conquer: The Anglo-American Imperial Project.)

Now I ask specifically: WHO HAS EGG ON THE FACE? MY DETRACTORS OR ME?

Andrew Marshall is a respected author; he is clearly saying here that terrorists looked like Anglo-American covert operatives and that the entire Mumbai operation was an attempt by Anglo-American forces to destabilize India and push it further into the Israel-US orbit. Marshall also says that Americans are keen to dismember Pakistan–it is clear that in this project, America needs India as a firm ally–it cannot afford Indo-Pak friendship at least on a long-term basis. The Mumbai attack thus was multi-layered–and one of the reasons could be to warn India that the Anglo-American elite has the power to penetrate India, with the help of its own people. Clearly, the attackers would not have come from the sea route without some kind of a connivance of Gujarat and Maharashtra Governments with the terrorists, and the connivance of RSS type Hindutva elements as I will prove later in the piece.

This afore-mentioned report appeared on the BBC, a news agency which pro-west, Muslim-haters and all NRIs love to see. NOW I ASK THESE PEOPLE: why are you adopting double standards? Now a BBC report is incovenient because it militates against your idea of what happened in Mumbai?

Even the Indian Government is aware of this reality. That is why it is not issuing statements in a hurry and that is why the kind of Islamo-phobia seen earlier after Bomb Blasts is not being seen now.

A second report is more shocking–some news channels captured it but then it went off air:

One Police officer who encountered the gunmen as they entered the Jewish Center (Nariman House) said the attackers were white. “I went into the building late last night” he said. “I got a shock because they were white. I was expecting them to look like us. They fired three shots. I fired 10 back”.

The Nariman House affair brings the Mossad angle to the fore. Two of the `hostages’ killed in the Narimam House were identified as Rabbi Gabreil Holtzberg and his wife Rivka. They ran the center as spokespersons of the Chabad Lubavitch movement.

Now the Chabad movement is one of the many sects within Israel and Judaism. But of late it has come under the Zionist influence. Now what is Zionism? A brief digression would suffice: Zionism is the political ideology of racist Jews, just like Hindutva is the political ideology of a section of `race conscious’ Hindus. Just as a majority of Sanatani Hindus have opposed Hindutva, a majority of Jews oppose Zionism and its fascist-anti-religious tone.

In opposition to the teachings of Judaism, the orthodox Jew religion, Zionists want to dominate the world; they see the `Jewish race’ as the most important, almost divine, race in the world. Zionists are opposed to democracy and even the concept of naitonhood. Zionists believe in creating murder and mayhem as a matter of policy.

In America, Zionists have entered into an alliance with the American elites–the White-Anglo-Saxon Protestant (WASP) forces–which rule America. The reasons for this alliance lie in the way the Zionist agenda matches with that of the American corporate and WASP elite and is beyind the scope of this article.

People who do not understand Zionism will never be able to understand what happened in Mumbai.

Back to members of the Chabad-Lubavitch movement killed at Nariman House–people have asked how come the Rabbi and his wife were killed if Mossad is involved in the Mumbai terror attack?

The answer to this is being forwarded by Jewish anti-Zionist websites. They also detail the sectarian history of the Chabad-Lubavitch movement:

The attack on Mumbai spotlights the ultra-orthodox (haredi) Chabad-Lubavitch community and its international outreach network. When Chabad outreach (keruv) started in the 1950s, it seemed rather intellectually dishonest because the organization used nostalgia for a never-existent Jewish past as a hook to enmesh secular or secularized Jews in ultra-orthodox (haredi) practice as hozrim bitshuvah (returnees, sometimes improperly called baalei tshuvah), but on the whole the activity was mostly harmless in contrast with current Chabad activities, which long ago crossed the border into dangerous territory.

As the Lubavitcher organization has become larger and wealthier — partially because mobilization for keruv has brought large contributions, members have shown a propensity for corruption.

Yet, the Lubavitchers have worked closely with Jewish racists like Lawrence Summers and Alan Dershowitz in the ongoing attempt to control discourse on American campuses. The wealthy Russian Lubavitcher hozer bitshuvah Lev Leviev openly supports Zionist terrorism and settlement building in the Palestinan occupied territories. Possibly because of Leviev Chabad-Lubavitch has openly become involved in Putin’s struggles with Russian Jewish oligarchs.

Still, there is an even more sinister aspect to the Lubavitcher organization.

Because Lubavitcher outreach offices are located in some of the most important political, corporate and university centers throughout the world, the Lubavitchers have put together a network that is incomparable for corporate and international espionage as well as for the secret exchange of information. Because Chabad Houses could potentially act as safe houses, where there would be no record of a person’s stay.

Most people do not take the Lubavitchers seriously, but I have visited Chabad houses and encountered senior Israeli government or military officials (and probably intelligence agents). One can easily imagine that Neocon intelligentsia trying to develop a relationship with Hindutva (?????????) intelligentsia or politicians might have used the Chabad Nariman House as a meeting place.

Here a Jew is saying that he has visited Chabad houses and that he has seen covert operations going on and the involvement of senior Government and military officials of Israel. This Jew writer is also talking openly about a Neo-Con-Chabad-Hindutva tie-up!

The Jew writer mentions the Mossad involvement in Chabad Houses:

Because the Lubavitchers provide an unconditional welcome to all Jews in the hope of bringing them closer to the Lubavitcher way of life, the Lubavitchers have been open to potential subversion by Israeli intelligence organizations. Mossad and Shin Bet found it quite easy to penetrate the haredi community during the Yossele Affair. Jewish politics has often involved infiltration and subversion of one political group by another. The David Project Israel Advocacy organization has used its educational programs as a means to infiltrate more mainstream Jewish communal organizations with radical Islamophobes and Jabotinskian Zionists.

To Zionize haredi groups that practice outreach, the Israeli government need only give encouragement to Zionistically indoctrinated Hebrew-speaking young people to participate in outreach programs, and in a few years the targeted haredi community is thoroughly enmeshed in Zionist thinking while Israeli intelligence organizations have a new crop of saya`nim in place ready to serve in Zionist covert operations.

What is a sayanim? Go to the link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayanim and it states that “Sayanim (Hebrew: “helpers”) is a term used to describe Jews living outside Israel who volunteer to provide assistance to the Mossad.[1] This assistance includes facilitating medical care, money, logistics, and even overt intelligence gathering, yet sayanim are only paid for their expenses. No official number is known, but estimates put the number of sayanim in the thousands. The existence of this large body of volunteers is one reason why the Mossad operates with fewer case officers than fellow intelligence agencies”

Now back to the link

http://eaazi.blogspot.com/2008/12/
chabad-lubavitch-dangerous-game.html

from which I was quoting the Jewish writer originally. He says that the Lubavitcher shluchim (outreach emissaries) Gavriel Noach and Rivka Holtzberg fit the `sayanim’ profile to a “T” — especially Rivkah.

So the two people killed in Nariman House fit the Sayanim, that is Jews outside Israel who volunteer to provide assistance to Mossad, profile!

NOW WHAT OTHER PROOF DO YOU WANT?

The Jewish writer of the afore-mentioned link himself asks the question: WOULD MOSSAD HAVE KILLED THE RABBI AND HIS WIFE IN NARIMAN HOUSE?
AND HE PROVIDES THE ANSWER:

Zionists have always used dead Jews to build sympathy for Zionist goals and as cover for Zionist crimes against humanity.

Ben-Gurion explicitly stated that he would sacrifice German Jewish children for the sake of Zionism while the Zionist leadership probably learned the benefit of sacrificing Zionist operatives from the 1946 Kielce Pogrom. In this incident (Jewish) Soviet and Zionist agents probably worked together to make sure that surviving Polish Jews chose emigration to Palestine over a return to Poland.

Because the Kielce Zionist recruiters were killed during the pogrom, the events leading up to the pogrom was rendered forever unobtainable.

Some reports of the Mumbai attack indicate that the Holtzbergs rented space to the attack planners over the past few months and thereby helped make the operation far more effective.

An opportunity to interrogate the Holtzbergs would have helped investigators immensely.

AGAIN WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?

Another piece of massive evidence: In a telephone interview with CBC News from outside the Center (Nariman House), freelance journalists Arun Asthana said that there are reports that some of the militants had stayed at a guest house there (Nariman House) for upto 15 days before the attack. “They had a huge mass of ammunition, arms and food there”, Asthana said.

Now other reports have also confirmed that a huge mass of food was ordered by the residents of the Nariman House. This food was enough for 30-40 people for several days. Why was this amount of food ordered? Also why was Nariman House not assaulted till the very last? A Gujarati Hindu resident of Mumbai came onto TV on CNN-IBN to say at around 3.30 AM or so, that for two months suspicious activities wree going in Nariman House. A lot of foreigners were seen coming in and going out. This matter was reported to the Police. But no one took action.

The CNN-IBN did not repeat the news; then it was only when the common people of Mumbai threatened to storm the Nariman House the NSG commandos were moved in–why this delay in assaulting Nariman House when only two terrorists were holed in there?

This is sheer official complicity and nothing else–AN INVESTIGATION INTO THE WHOLE NARIMAN HOUSE AFFAIR IS A MUST.

Then it was reported that ” somehow surprising to learn that the terrorists in Cama hospital in Mumbai were fluently speaking Marathi. The terrorists who are said to have fired in Cama hospital talked to an employee clad in civil dress in Marathi, reports a Marathi daily ‘Maharashtra Times’.

The newspaper said the terrorists who targeted ATS chief Hemant Karkare, police commissioner Ashok Kamte and encounter specialist Vijay Salaskar were speaking Marathi fluently.

The newspaper claims the terrorists having fired at two watchmen in uniform asked the other beside them on gunpoint in Marathi, ‘You are here an employee?’ The employee caught the legs of the terrorist and said, ‘I am not working here. My wife has suffered from heart attack and I have come here to admit her.’ The terrorist asked him again in Marathi, ‘You are speaking true or false?’ The employee answered, ‘No, by God I am speaking true.’
On this the terrorist let him go.

NOW WHAT DO WE MAKE OF THAT? Another report says that traditional Jews of Mumbai who have migrated to Israel speak fluent Marathi and are known to have been recruited by Mossad!

The death of Hemant Karkare remains a mystery. All official versions are contradictory: some say he was killed near CST, some that he died near Cama hospital, some near Metro cinema, and some that he was killed while in a Police jeep. Also, where did the bullet hit him? Some say on the neck and some near the heart. Karkare was shown on TV wearing a bullet proof vest–he could not have been shot in neck in that case, unless there was a sniper waiting for him.

Also if he was shot near heart, then when did he take out his vest? No one has even bothered to answer this question. Also, another facet is coming to light: that Karkare was killed near Cama–but Kaamte and Salaskar in the Metro shootout!

Intelligent people–what do you have to say now? It is becoming obvious that…

1. Several terrorists might have been white

2. Were they International mercanaries? If yes, then from which country? Who collected them? It is well known that Mossad and CIA have several mercenary organizations, including so-called Jihadi ones on their list. They create Jihad and manipulate Muslims disaffected by the Islamophobia in the world. Some of them might have been used in the Mumbai attack. But why were they carrying American, British, Mauritian and Malaysian passports?

3. Who were the Marathi speaking Karkare killers? The lane next to the Cama Hospital is a deserted one–it goes straight to the backyard of the Mumbai CID Headquarters. Anonymous sources in the Police have revealed that Karkare was taken there, by a joint team of anti-Karkare, pro-Hindutva Mumbai Police officers, and Chota Rajan men. Now Karkare was opposed to Chota Rajan. Salaskar was anti-Pradeep Sharma, another Mumbai senior Police officer now in jail, for working as Rajan’s shooter. So the Marathi speaking terrorists could either have been Jews with some connection to Mumbai–or hired killers of the Hindutva brigade or men of Chota Rajan.

http://www.countercurrents.org/misra031208.htm

4. It seems that several things went on simultaneously–the Mahrashtra Chief Minister Vilas Rao Deshmukh was in Kerala when the Mumbai attack began at 9.30 PM on 26th November. Then by 11PM Deshmukh had informed the Home Minister Shivraj Patil–the latter has started proceedings to send the NSG Commandos. So Deshmukh knew about what was happening by 11PM–then why was there no Mumbai Police on various locations between 9.30 and 1am, the time when Karkare arrived? The Mumbai ATS is a separate organization. it does not lead the Mumbai Police. So the 40,000 strong Mumbai Police was absent from the scene of action between 11pm to 1am and then Karkare arrived and he was killed along with his men!

Isn’t there something fishy here? Obviously the Mumbai Police was kept deliberately away between 11pm and 1am, the time period when terrorists were killing people merrily. Then Karkare must have been told–and he went there expecting Mumbai police personals to be there–but there were none or only a few! And he was killed!

Amaresh Misra is a freelance writer, historian and poet. He is the author of Mangal Pandey: The True Story of an Indian Revolutionary; Lucknow: Fire of Grace: The Story of Its Renaissance, Revolution and the Aftermath, and more recently War of Civilizations: The Road to Delhi and The Long Revolution. He can be contacted on misra.amaresh@gmail.com

Leave A Comment
&
Share Your Insights

125 votes

Comments (63)
Comment Policy

——————————————————————————–

ShareThis

Share This Article

——————————————————————————–

Here is a unique chance to help this article to be read by thousands of people more. You just share it on your favourite social networking site. You can also email the article from here.

——————————————————————————–

Disclaimer

Feed Burner
URL

Support Indy
Media

Search Our Archive

Our Site

Web

This is why his death is so central to the whole Mumbai affair:

Hemant Karkare
Op Ed
A new book curiously titled Who Killed Hemant Karkare? says a nationwide network of Hindutva terror that has its tentacles spread up to Nepal and Israel is out to destroy the India most Indians have known for ages and to remould it into some kind of Afghanistan under the Taliban. The writer, a former IG Police of Maharashtra, SM Mushrif, has reconstructed a fearsome picture out of former Maharashtra ATS chief Hemant Karkare’s chargesheet against alleged Hindutva terrorists like Lt. Col. Purohit, Sadhvi Pragyasingh Thakur and others.

The chargesheet pointed towards a mind-boggling nationwide conspiracy with international support to destabilise the constitutional order and the secular democratic Indian state that upholds it, to be replaced by a Hindutva state run according to a new Constitution. For that the conspirators were prepared for a massive bloodbath, using bomb attacks on religious places to trigger an anti-Muslim holocaust.

Mushrif, who has over three decades of diligent policing behind him and whose feats include exposing the Telgi scam, has made an elaborate case out of nearly a dozen blasts over a large area of the country conducted by Hindutva terror groups of different stripes. His case: a section of India’s intelligence services, a miniscule group in the armed forces and a section of different state police forces have been compromised and infiltrated by these elements, a development that bodes ill for the future of the country.

In Hemant Karkare’s net (of investigations, of course) many big and small fishes of VHP, RSS, Bajrang Dal and Sanatan Sanstha (which has been found to be involved in Diwali-eve blasts in Goa last week) had been trapped. Serving and retired army officers, academics, serving and retired officials of India’s premier intelligence service were ensnared in Karkare’s fishing net. The menacing power of the latter groups, inspired by sustained anti-Muslim hate campaigns of the last six decades, gave the plot a sinister and highly destructive character.

Among the plans unearthed by Karkare was a blueprint for the assassination of 70 prominent Indians who could by a hindrance to the project of Hindutva. Interestingly, most of the persons marked for elimination would, naturally, be Hindus because it is they who primarily run the dispensation. The conspirators were also unhappy with organisations whose Hindutva they suspected to be less virulent than desired.

Mushrif, who very well knows the power of the Intelligence Bureau (IB) to make or mar lives and careers, says he is prepared to face the consequences of hostility of this power hub. He musters “evidence” to show that the IB has regularly been interfering with regular police investigations to let Hindutva terrorists slip out of the net and replace them with random Muslim youth. To fudge the issues further obliging police officers in the states would not mind exterminating a few Muslim youth to be branded posthumously as “terrorists”.

There are quite a few number of such cases where such extra-judicial killing of Muslim youth has turned out to be false police encounters. All this is done to cover tracks of Hindutva terror. Mushrif says a “Brahminist” network that has its origins in Maharashtra, and is closely knit across political parties, government services, including IB, and other vital sectors of life is behind the terror that seeks to destroy the secular, democratic state. He hastens to clarify that very few Brahminists are Brahmins. Many are from other high Hindu castes, some from middle and lower castes.

Most Brahmins are fair-minded and would not like to associate themselves with hate ideologies. Hemant Karkare, too, was a Brahmin, Mushrif says. So is Mushrif’s son-in-law.

It is pertinent to note that “Brahminism” and “Brahminical order” first appeared in Dalit protest vocabulary in the Dalit uprising movement in Maharashtra towards the turn of the 20th century. Mushrif, who appropriates part of this vocabulary for the present discourse, says that Maharashtra still remains the centre of this ideology that, among other things, has the dubious distinction of killing the Father of the Nation.

The power establishment that really runs the affairs of this country (Mushrif says it is not Sonia Gandhi, Manmohan Singh or Rahul Gandhi) does not want to expose the Hindutva terrorists. One example is the blasts in Samjhauta Express, which the IB said was carried out by Pakistan’s ISI. Mushrif quotes a report in The Times of India that said, “the Centre had blamed the ISI on the basis of the IB’s findings.” However, during a narco-analysis test under Karkare, Lt. Col. Purohit had admitted having supplied the RDX used in the blast. The IB, which draws its power from its proximity to the Prime Minister (its director briefs the PM every morning for half an hour), did not want Karkare’s investigation that blew the cover off the IB’s shenanigans, to continue.

Once Karkare was removed from the scene, the IB moved in to fill his position with KP Raghuvanshi, a pliant police officer with extremely low credibility among Muslims for his record of letting off known Hindutva terrorists and implicating innocent Muslim youth even in bomb attack cases on mosques.

There are quite a few interesting vignettes here, like Raghuvanshi and Col. Purohit’s association with Abhinav Bharat in Maharashtra, whose hand was evident in a series of blasts across the country. It has old connections with men like Veer Damodar Savarkar (whose relative Himani Savarkar leads the Abhinav Bharat movement), Dr Munje, who led the Hindu Mahasabha, and other Hindutva luminaries. It is at the Bhonsala Military Academy run by these groups that Purohit trained police officers, including Raghuvanshi. Mushrif asks a pertinent question: Will Raghuvanshi pursue the investigation against Purohit, his guru? A plausible answer is, perhaps no. Already charges have been dropped by a special court under MCOCA against 11 accused, including Purohit, on the grounds of insufficient evidence produced in the court by the prosecution.

This was just the beginning of the undoing of Karkare’s painstaking investigation. Mushrif says slowly the system is working to undo all of Karkare’s work and let off the terrorists who over the years destroyed scores of lives and wreaked irreparable economic damage. The ATS team under Karkare had pointed out VHP leader Praveen Togadia’s role in the blasts. The ATS under Raghuvanshi dropped the investigation against him saying (please hold your laughter) they do not know who Togadia is!

A number of investigations have been thus sabotaged by the powers that be and the tracks of the Hinduta terrorists duly covered. The 319-page book is crammed with such information.

But what about who killed Karkare? Mushrif says two teams were at work on 26/11 – one which did the maximum damage, and was from outside. The smaller team took advantage of the confusion of the moment and acted only on the relatively small CST-CAMA-Rangbhavan stretch that killed Karkare. It was a desi unit that wanted Karkare and his men out of the way.

Omer @ 168,

It is for the same reasons you’ve mentioned that Sehwag cannot be compared with Tendulkar!!

You only started talking about Gambhir in the beginning and compared him with Sehwag and Yes it makes sense to wait for Gambhir to reach Sehwag’s experience and although i am not a man of predictions but mark my words Gambhir is another Dravid in the making and hopefully he will have a very long career and when both of them finish then we will see how history remembers Gambhir and Sehwag until then it is pointless to debate who is better so this debate should be adjourned until both finish their careers!!

Varun,

Ghambir has played 25 matches. It would take only 25 more matches for him to average at 40 for his overall average to come to 47, 48. Sehwag has played 70-dd matches so his 50-odd average has a lot of weight, and it would take an extremely poor run on his part– an average of 40 for 70 more matches– for his overall average to come about 45.

Munir

The whole of Montreal and the entire province of Quebec is cursing Abu Dhabi for taking away this event from Montreal. It used to bring US$300 million business during the F-1 week-end. Because of that I shall be losing CAD4000 business every year. The race used to held here in second week of June every yearand the circuit is on an island and from both sides the river St. Lawrence is flowing with all its might. My house is 2 minutes from the river but, the circuit is about 10 k.m. away on the north side and there is so much noise during that week-end and also before that i.e., when they are doing practice laps that you have to keep the doors and windows shut to avoid noise pollution.

In case you don’t know, river St. Lawrence is the oldest river in the world, it is from the ice age times, don’t believe me Google it. And, here in the city it is 4 k.m. wide and it flows towards the Atlantic and gets wider and wider and becomes Gulf of St. Lawrence and it is 150 k.m. wide and then it joins the Atlantic.

For the F-1, not only the Americans but, fans from all over Europe used to come and during that week, hotels are fully booked from the moment the dates are announced i.e., in October/November. And, believe it or not, the small hotels charge a package of $1200 for 3 nights per room for 2 people and the five star hotels charge about $6500 per night, per room for 2 people and that includes a VIP ticket for 2.

Anyways, I am not a fan of F-1 race, not just because of the noise pollution but, you really can’t make out who is in the lead and who is behind? For me that sport is like American football or baseball. I would enjoy a one hour Jet Boating in the river St. Lawrence, take a look at this link, click on the video and watch it, at least here you are a part of the fun and not just a spectator.

http://www.jetboatingmontreal.com/

Varun

Yar please Dravid ko gali tou na dou! I mean there is no comparison between Dravid and Gambhir, game wise Dravid is known as THE WALL and has great temperament while he is batting and, off the field he is a GENTLEMAN, I have never seen any Indian, Pakistani or a player from any country who is so nice, sober and humble, and always praised the opposition even after losing.

Whereas, Gambhir he still has flaws in his batting technique and the way he got out on that ball from Hauritz in Delhi is an example, prior to that ball, twice he made the same mistake of playing a shot with an angular bat and Hauritz got him the next ball. He also tries to poke his bat to a ball which is moving away from him and that he has to learn from Dravid i.e., to leave the tempting and teasing ball alone, especially when you have not assessed the pitch, movement, variation etc.

As regards Gambhir’s temperament and attitude, both on the field and off the field he is a very bad ambassador of the country, he has a big foul mouth and all the time he is saying FU and MC, BC and he is not cool like Dravid is, in fact he is very arrogant and these are my analysis about him without any bias. Sehwag, you look at him he never swears and he stays calm, composed and cool.

Yuvraj thinks too much of himself but, not Sehwag. I have noticed many times when Yuvraj hits a six he stares at bowlers and opposition and shows a very angry face. That is OK and I am not saying its a bad thing. But, Sehwag never does that, i.e., because, from inside or I can say Sehwag’s inner self is very soft and humble and, game wise he is very aggressive, which is what you want to see in a player.

Omer Admani

Khansahab doesn’t like desi politics except for “Butt-Shot” politics, hence there is no politics page or even the Mumbai page.

You have tried to dig out the Mumbai case by copy pasting two articles one by Amaresh Misra and the other by SM Mushrif the former IG Police of Maharashtra. Both are interesting but, the point is most Indians will fail to recognize the whole of Mumbai Attack was a home grown, home cooked, Israeli baked pie. They have not been able to proof anything against the so-called Qassab in custody, who is probably destined to die in Indian custody. He may even be a Pakistani, caught in Nepal and held in custody and used as a decoy to show that Pakistan is behind the attack. Like, the cavemen with a few hours of flying single engine Cessna, mastered the flying of sophisticated Jumbo jets and rammed them into the WTC.

The more days pass by, slowly and gradually some of the Indians started to suspect their own government because, their own people are coming up with plausible and concrete proof about how Hemant Karkare was killed and what was the reason or motive behind that attack?

PS

Arundhatti Roy has been gagged by the government and some influential people, Amaresh Misra and Mushrif will be dealt the same way or end up in some kinda accident, but they are unable to do this because it will go against them.

Javed Khan,

I don’t know about Amesh Misra’s theory, but his theory is based on certain facts, which I find interesting:

1) The eyewitness accounts claim that one of the terrorists spoke in Marathi. It is true that there is no way a Pakistani can speak Marathi.

2) The only evidence against Pakistan, in the dossier forwarded, is the identity of Kasab. The other 9 terrorists were mutilated such that their faces can’t be indentified, their fingerprints can’t be ascertained, and so on.

3) The bullets of the guns used by the terrorists are not the same as the bullets of the guns found on some of the victims

4) Karkare, who was killed supposedly by the terrorists in the attacks, was actinvely unconvering a ring of Hindu supremacy idologoues, the Indian army, and the goverment. He was constantly receiving death threats from these extreme factions. This was the background of the terror attacks, more and more media outlets were printing news about this ring in the Indian media before the attacks. In fact an Indian colonel had admitted supplying material for some bomb blast (and that bomb blast was blamed on the ISI). Karkare was also actively pursuing the Samjhota Express bus blasts, which were again initially blamed on Pakistan (and most Pakistanis had died anyway), and Karkare had uncovered again the same ring of Hindu extremists involved who had, on purpose, set-up Pakistanis. The official version of the circumstance and place of Karkare’s death has been changed many, many times by the Indian govt. His wife refused to accept compensation offered after his death, because it was being given by the Extreme Hindu elements of BJP, apparently some of whom are part of that ring.

5)There are structural flaws in the way that the Indian govt has reconstructed the terrorists path and the way they went about their bussiness. In particular, 10 people split in groups of two, 4 went to the hotel where 4000 Indian policemen fought them for 2-3 days, one group of 2 (including Kasab) took 2 taxis– one for each– and after they got out of the taxis, they left two bombs in the taxis, and like it happens in Bollywood movies, as they got out and were walking away, both the bombs in both the taxis exploded. These professional terrorists were drawing attention exploding empty taxis. Then they walked freely around everywhere killing people at their behest, entered a train station (usually is usually laded with much police) and killed people with impunity for an hour or two.

In other words, on the balance of probabilities, one person Kasab versus so much evidence which doesn’t stand to reason, something ( or a lot) is faulty with the whole version that the Indian govt has provided.

Javed@177,

Well i did not say that he is already the WALL but one in the making. As far as temperament is concerned i know why you are so pisssed by him because he took Panga once with your favorite player and that is Afridi. I am not too concerned about his temperament because sooner or later he will realise that if he wants to be remembered as one of the Game’s true greats then he will have to control himself and there is no scarcity of psychologists and trainers who can guide him in this direction. All i am concerned is that he should try to constantly improve his batting as Tendulkar is trying to do even now and not get too overconfident by looking at his past records.

I am not too big a fan of Yuvraj mainly because of his arrogance and false pride which runs deep in their family, even his dad was kicked out of the Indian Team for indiscipline amongst other things.

It is very convenient for you all here to dig up old graves by bringing back Mumbai 26/11 when very conveniently the Politics and the Mumbai page was deleted when it was so evident Who and Where those attacks were hatched up. It’s a shame that amongst all the News Media you would only read what you’d like to read and by the way who is this Amaresh Mishra? What are his credentials? Is he not just one of those journalists who is just trying to get some publicity by being a bit controversial.

I would not go any further on this subject as we discussed it in great detail last year and once the Mumbai and Politics page was deleted I took it as a Silent Acknowledgment by the owners of this Blog that, that Mumbai Attacks were hatched up in Pakistan and since other than the usual Conspiracy Theories which are particularly fascinating for Javed A. Khan there is no other concrete proof that it was not hatched by or in Pakistan!

I would request Javed A. Khan to come out of his Dream-World from the Banks of the River St. Lawrence in Kane-da and visit Pakistan sometime now and he would realize just as Mrs Clinton did in her recent trip about how clueless Pakistani Authorities are whether it is Taliban or any other extremist elements present within the Country.

Javed,

I don’t know what to expect from you when you do not even consider Javed Miandad as a foul-mouthed and a abusive personality as you had recently said that he never used to abuse when the whole world knows about his provocative arguments with all the batsmen of his era and more so there is also a spoof made by some Pakistani which is all over Youtube where someone is trying copy the way Miandad used to talk and all one can hear is BC and MC.

Javed Khan …

Only you can know what I am talking about on the F-1 racing, it sure is either for the young or young-at-heart

I always had a thing for the motor racing and have attended several races, but this was my first experience with the F-1. This is the very first in the UAE and probably only second in the entire Middle East F-1 facility.

I never knew that this event was taken over from Montreal, Canada and I am sorry to hear that you will loose some business because of this F-1 Grand Prix being moved to Abu Dhabi, but at least we saved you the noise-pollution, didn’t we ? 

F-1 is a costly affair and as you rightly said about the hotels and other business opportunities around it, yes similarly, Abu Dhabi opened-up 7 new 4/ 5 star hotels at the Yas Island only to cater to the F-1 teams/ fans from all over the world. These hotels which were running fully booked were in addition to the normal hotels in Dubai and Abu Dhabi which all reported almost full occupancy during the first ever F-1 week in UAE.

BTW, Abu Dhabi have tied-up with the F-1 for at least seven years starting from 2009 till 2016, and so we would be seeing many more events right here in UAE. Nevertheless, the hype and publicity around this first event was extraordinary.

Coming back to the ‘Jetboating’, well this looks really something very exciting. I never heard of this before and the video link you sent made a great viewing. I am not a very adventurous person myself, but I am not totally freaked-out also, and so it gives me one more reason to visit Canada (before I die, that is)

Omer @ 175,

Just for the purpose of analysing i compared the batting records of Gambhir and Sehwag after he played 25 Test Matches.

Matches Runs Highest Average Centuries Fifties
G.Gambhir:- 25 2271 206 54.07 6 10

V.Sehwag*:- 25 2157 309 53.92 7 3

As you can see that the records of both of them are almost similar with Gambhir slightly edging out Sehwag on total runs scored, average and fifties scored but Sehwag has a 300 to his name and also he is a more complete player as he is also a Bowler so definitely he is a more all-round player than Gambhir but that is not the point of debate here the point of discussion here mainly is their Batting and it would be unfair on your part to assume that Gambhir’s average would fall in the next 25 Test-Matches to around 40, that is something only time will tell because if he keeps his head cool and maintains his fitness then he would probably end up playing longer than Sehwag and maintain his current average so this is nothing but just a case of personal bias as khansahab has already pointed out that You are so fascinated by the big tons scored by Lara and Sehwag that you are overlooking other aspects of comparison.

4 run outs by Indian fielders in one innings? This must be a record. If they win this match, which they should as the target is achievable then it should be because of their fielding today.

At 193 for 3 in 37 overs I was thinking Aus will make 300 plus but, they collapsed soon after Hussey’s departure. I think Ponting’s run out was the key. Anyways, lets see the Indian batting now.

On cricinfo, I saw the Pakistani probables for tomorrow’s match and they are:

Pakistan (probable): 1 Salman Butt, 2 Kamran Akmal (wk), 3 Younis Khan (capt), 4 Mohammad Yousuf, 5 Shoaib Malik, 6 Umar Akmal, 7 Shahid Afridi, 8 Naved-ul-Hasan/Abdul Razzaq, 9 Umar Gul, 10 Mohammad Aamer, 11 Saeed Ajmal

LOL @ Salman Butt’s selection once again. And why axe Abdul Razzaq in favour of Rana Naiyee?

Varun;

Don’t go on hearsay about Javed Miandad’s abuse. He was definitely a pest who would get under the opposition’s skin and irritate them but, he was never an abuser saying MC, BC or FU. I have seen him and met him in the UAE a few times also, people who have remained close to him they also confirm that he never use MC, BC, or FU (you may ask people of his generation that the word FU was not used in his times as it is today) in his communication on or of the field. It is because of his very ordinary looks and lack of eduction and unable to communicate properly media has created a very bad image of his. He is still better looking than Praveen Kumar btw

Btw, that Gambhir and Afridi spat has nothing to do with my not liking Gambhir’s attitude. Despite all the bad publicity of Yuvraj and his dad, I don’t recall Yuvraj uttering MC BC stuff. Those who do all the time are Gambhir, Nehra, Harbhajan, Munaf Patel, so correct me if I am wrong.

Javed Khan …Only you can know what I am talking about on the F-1 racing, it sure is either for the young or young-at-heart Munir.

Munir, UAE is a different market, where the young local lads can throw in any amount of money, but all over the world, the young ones cannot afford F-1 racing tickets. The lowest or the cheapest ticket of general stand here was CAD250 per day. Therefore, those who follow the circuit (means travel from one destination to another) are generally rich and are in their mid forties and above.

The other thing that used to happen here is, ALL the F-1 cars go on parade in downtown a day before the rally and during the week-end, most of the downtown streets are closed for vehicles (only pedestrians are allowed) and all the top best cars of the world are displayed on the streets like, the Crescent Street, Ste-Catherine Street (my office is right there) and believe it or not that week-end starting from Friday to Sunday night is like a festival time with hundreds and thousands of youngsters dancing, partying all night, live bands, pretty gals (khansahab and Omer would like to be there) and there are about 4000 restaurants and bars in downtown, they all serve food on patios, terraces and pavements…… you may visit before you are 70 years old.

Btw, there are thousands and thousands of Arab students here and they all live in downtown because of the 4 universities in downtown, 2 French and 2 English Universities, namely McGill and Concordia.

Varun

I have been to Pakistan, I enjoy being there, but I love Montreal

Javed,

I trust you and believe you what you say about Javed Miandad and also agree on the the Indian PLayers you have named who use these abuses but during Miandad’s times i don’t think any other Indian or Pakistani player could match what he could do verbally to the opposition player and that itself was a big thing then. Although i am by no means trying to defend these abusive players but it is the general degradation of the Hindi language in North India due to which many people from North India would casually utter these words at the beginning or the end of any sentence , specially the Punjabis are known to start and end any sentence with BC, but many times they might not really mean it from within however i agree whatever it is it is unacceptable and the senior players should advise them as to how to control their emotions or as they say in Shudh Hindi Apni indriyo ko vash main karna

Such arrogance usually comes from a fake superiority complex and maybe these Nehra’s and Munfa’s should learn from the players from the past.

I never said anything on Miandad’s looks but if you feel he is mroe handsome than Praveen Kumar than so be it!

In Btw…It looks like today is another Seh-wacking day and I am sure Omer Admani would be pleased to see him massacre Johnson!!

Varun,

I have used Amesh Mishra’s theory to highlight the facts, not the theory. Why would this be a conspiracy theory, when the only thing that ties Pakistan to Mumbai attacks is Kasab, someone who had dissapeared from Pakistan, had been seen supposedly in Nepal, and there is nothing concrete about him except that he can be traced to some remote village in Pakistan. Between this and the proof that Pakistan or all Pakistanis were involved, there are a million possibilities. Are you saying Mallegon blasts were also caused by Pakistan? And Samjhota Express bomb blasts (both officialy blamed on Pakistan)?

Did you read above, in the op ed, that in the place of Karakare the establishment has posted an officer who has long been an odds with the Muslim community in India, because the community believes that he has a history of letting off Hindu extremists inciting violence (btw have you seen Varun Gandhi’s recent remarks on Muslims, the heir to India’s most powerful political family: http://blog.beliefnet.com/cityofbrass/2009/03/varun-gandhi-vows-to-cut-heads.html)

Check this out:

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/india-news/army-officer-arrested-over-malegaon-bomb-blast_100115636.html

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/world-news/prosecutor-in-malegaon-blast-case-gets-threat-to-life_100119544.html

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/uncategorized/indian-army-officer-being-quizzed-in-malegaon-blast-case_100113013.html

http://www.countercurrents.org/comm-gatade071106.htm

Varun,

Even though I accepted what you said at the time, subsequently evidence makes me believe to the contrary:

For instance, Varun Gandhi’s words above help me draw a larger picture in terms of the context. A person coming from a family educated from Oxford and other elite British schools, with a very liberal perspective, spitting such virotil…it can’t be the case, this is a political speech. My gut feeling is that this ring of extremists in India (which at least you will admit to considering the above), which have been known to incite terror and put blame on either Muslims or Pakistan, which have links with the BJP, Shiv Sena, some parts of the army….are acting under the Hindutva ideology so that BJP comes into power. Varun Gandhi is a politician, he is doing nothing but playing on– and inciting– communalist sentiments in a percentage of public in India (which could happen anywhere) to garner political support, in fact the BJP is using this ring to incite hatred against Muslims in India and the ISI, spread a bit of chaos in India, and provide themselves as the alternative to Congress in India. Within this context, it is not too unlikely that the attacks of Mumbai served two purposes: With elections right after the attacks had happened, it could have provided BJP as an alternative to the people for the ensuing chaos (a BJP who “would take care of Pakistan and these extreme Muslims), and, second, eliminate Karakare, who was creating a lot of attention in media regarding this ring and unearthing the nexus and the extent. This is not too unlikely, it could have been the bombshell that the BJP pulled, right before the elections, a force them brought them into power. However, that wasn’t the case, and, seubsequently, the frequent bomb blasts in India, such as MAlegeon, have stopped happening (after the elections). Just consider the motivation: Pakistan is probably the most maligned country in the world, what purpose would it have served Pakistan at that time?
Who had the motivation, the most important thing?

At least part of the goal had been accomplished (to quote from the op-ed above):

“The power establishment that really runs the affairs of this country (Mushrif says it is not Sonia Gandhi, Manmohan Singh or Rahul Gandhi) does not want to expose the Hindutva terrorists. One example is the blasts in Samjhauta Express, which the IB said was carried out by Pakistan’s ISI. Mushrif quotes a report in The Times of India that said, “the Centre had blamed the ISI on the basis of the IB’s findings.” However, during a narco-analysis test under Karkare, Lt. Col. Purohit had admitted having supplied the RDX used in the blast. The IB, which draws its power from its proximity to the Prime Minister (its director briefs the PM every morning for half an hour), did not want Karkare’s investigation that blew the cover off the IB’s shenanigans, to continue.

Once Karkare was removed from the scene, the IB moved in to fill his position with KP Raghuvanshi, a pliant police officer with extremely low credibility among Muslims for his record of letting off known Hindutva terrorists and implicating innocent Muslim youth even in bomb attack cases on mosques.”

What a beginning and what an ending? After Sehwag demoralized and plundered Johnson’s morale and when he was out on 30, I decided to go to work assuming Tendulkar will play anchor role and others will chip and the match should be in India’s pocket and now, I am sure no one would believe how Indian batting collapsed. What a shame.

Varun

Thanks for understanding the point and accepting it. Yes, these young players do need to learn from the former players. I did mention the names of Indian players but, that doesn’t mean there aren’t any in Pakistan. The most arrogant player was Aamir Churail and, now among the new ones it is Churail Tanvir. I think that name Sohail or Churail has got something to do with the abusive lingo and arrogance.

Miandad was not abuser but a big time irritating person especially for the opposition and that is why Ravi Shastri said, ” I hated Miandad’s guts.” It was not only for his determination to stay at the crease but, stay with so much confidence and also keep bugging the players and that was not his initiative but, a reaction. Here is what Gavaskar said:

In Sharjah when Chetan Sharma was bowling he was arranging and rearranging the field. Miandad came close to Sharma and asked him what is your hotel room number? Sharma was a bit shocked and upset but, he did not stop the field changes and Miandad didn’t stop asking the same question. Gavaskar asked Sharma what is he asking you? Sharma said, ’some stupid question’ Gavaskar asked phir bhee? He said, he is asking my hotel room number then Gavaskar said, OK tell him the number so that he won’t bug you. When Miandad asked Sharma the same question again, Sharma gave him the hotel room number and Miandad replied, ” Udhar bhee ek fielder khara kar lay. ”

Gavaskar was laughing when he was narrating this incident by saying this is Javed Miandad and that was his reaction to Sharma’s frequent field arrangement and rearrangement.

Javed Khan,

Australia are the best team under pressure. India has a much better team on paper than Australia, yet Australia fight back and play well under pressure. Australia has 2-3 great players in the team, whereas India has 4,5 (at least by one day standards). That Ricky Ponting makes it count on every occasion that it matters is a testament not only of his batting ability but also of his mental toughness.

People say Pakistan is good under pressure. That is not true, Pakistan is good when no-one expects them to win and always panic when everyone expects them to win.

Javed Khan,

Exactly, I too noticed it, that after Sehwag destroyed Jhonson’s confidence, he was never able to come back in the match. This is what we were talking about, the quality of runs. I noticed that Tendulkar was in a shell. Sehwag plundered Jhonson, and after he got out, the Australian bowlers bowled a lot of poor deliveries. They bowled no-balls, wide balls…this was just an effect of Sehwag. Tendulkar fed off the poor bowling to improve his run-rate. But he was in such a shell, that when he got out, you could feel the pressure on all the other Indian batsmen, Aussie bowlers regained their confidence, and India started folding. The quality of runs matters so much.

Even though Tendulkar averaged 10 runs more than Sehwag today, does anyone think the quality of runs that Tendulkar made were better than Sehwag’s?

Hi Javed/Omer,

Australia is never easy to beat, they fight hard for every run, their fielding makes up for whatever shortage they have. The turning point was Youvraj runout, they should not have taken on Ricky Ponting for that run, because he hits the stumps nine out of ten times, Youvraj wasn’t running slow on or anything, after that the pressure was too much on Dhoni. When Dhoni is batting with Youvraj it’s a different game as opposed to Dhoni with others, this is because Dhoni gets so much confidence from batting with Youvraj.

I don’t think Sehwag’s attack on Johnson carried on to other Aussie bowlers, Tendulkar was looking good, he was a bit slow, but then he was setting himself up for a big innings, and when he does that he plays himself in, his LBW was wrongly given, he was hit in line of leg stump and ball was going down the leg, replays confirmed this. If Tendulkar was not given out at that stage match would have been different.

Anyhow, 3 more games to go and India need to win 2 out of it, should be possible.

Khansaheb/Omer,

Sehwag has to do better than these 30s that he has been making in the last few games, he gets the start, crashes a few boundaries and sixes then gets out. This is not going to win matches, India needs at least a half century from him and at least one another batsman to win games. At least one century partnership or a couple of 60-70 run partnerships were required. The 30s and 40s will not win matches. This is why India missed Gambhir today, he is one player who could have anchored the innings at the top, with Kohli coming in at #3 they lost the batting rhythm, and he was not going to make a significant contribution. Next game Gambhir will be back and India will be charged up to win again. Tendulkar and Sehwag, both needs to get a half century if not more, both are short of runs in this series.

Varun

The new ATS Chief wasn’t appointed till 7 months after Karakare’s death and it was done only after the Supreme court or some other court forced a deadline!

Within this period, a lot can be mopped up. I was doing research on this, even in some other bomb blasts eyewitness accounts claim that, after the blasts, one of the perpetrators, whose body had been cut in two pieces (the lower torso and the upper part), his beard was seen to be fake and was coming of. After the ambulance reached the airport, this person didn’t exist (among all the dead people). The evidence was clearly mopped up. Now it is established that they are appearing as Muslims…

I quote from the link below:

“The major terrorist attacks that took place in Maharashtra between 2005 and January 2008 (when Raghuvanshi was holding ATS charge) are as follows:

25 August 2005, twin blasts in Mumbai: Two powerful car-bomb explosions took place in South Mumbai in which at least 46 persons were killed and 160 injured.

1 June 2006, attack on RSS headquarters in Nagpur: Three militants were killed in an attack on RSS Headquarters.

11 July 2006, Mumbai train blasts: At least 190 people were killed and 625 injured in the blasts in first class compartments of several trains.

8 September 2006, serial blasts in Malegaon: 40 people killed in two blasts near a mosque and a Muslim graveyard.

All these cases are pending in courts with scores of Muslim youths, suspected to be involved in the attacks, are languishing in jails. Various questions and serious allegations have been made against some investigating officers in these cases.

In November 2006 Dr Tanveer Ansari, one of the main accused in the July 11, 2006 Mumbai train blasts, had shocked people when he disclosed in a letter to the MCOCA court as to how he was coerced by ATS Chief K P Raghuvanshi and other senior officers to confess.

Ansari, in a letter to MCOCA court on November 3, had alleged that Raghuvanshi told him that the police knew he (Ansari) had no role in the blasts but asked him to lie to strengthen their case. He had also alleged that another officer tried to bribe him saying he would be paid if he memorised a statement indicting him and stuck to it in court.

It is difficult to say that with Raghuvanshi as ATS chief the elite group of the Maharashtra police will follow Karkare.”

http://www.twocircles.net/2008dec25/raghuvanshi_chief_turn_ats_pre_karkare_era.html

Also, check this out:

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/world-news/ltcol-purohit-wanted-to-create-hindu-nation_100144954.html

khansahab & newguy

First of all LOL @ khansahab’s sarcasm in sending Sehwag to club level cricket.

Guys if you always expect at least a 50 from Sehwag in every match then, all other players to contribute 50’s and 40’s then India will always be scoring 400 plus runs. That doesn’t happen.

The point that Omer and I are trying to emphasize here is, after Sehwag plundered the best bowler Mitchel Johnson, Tendulkar should have also come out more aggressively but, he didn’t in fact at one point Sehwag scored 30 in 14 balls, Tendulkar has scored 8 in 22 balls, him being a senior player and also of that high caliber that he is considered as the BEST ODI player in the world because of his 16993 runs and 44 centuries, he should have taken the lead after Sehwag’s departure and that would have relieved some pressure from young Virat Kohli, who saw his mentor struggling to get runs and he edged to Bollinger.

Like Omer said, he was in a shell trying to score 17000 runs today and look at his 40 runs in 68 balls a strike rate of pathetic 58. And, mind you this is the best innings he played in the last 5 matches. The effect of Sehwag was so much that Johnson couldn’t bowl in any of his spells despite the confidence shown by his captain Ponting, who kept bringing him back and each time he was clubbed because of poor line and length.

Archimedes said: “Give me a place to stand on, and I will move the earth (with a lever).” Likewise, Sehwag says: “Give me some width and I will dispatch the ball over the ropes.”

The first ball he faced from Johnson with a little bit of width and it went flying over the point fielder and one bounce over the rope and in his 30 with 7 fours, six of them were from Johnson’s bowling and each one went like a rocket.

Omer Admani

No matter how many links you post or how many articles you copy paste here, Varun is not interested in reading them.

Since India has lost today and the series is 2-2 (looking more like a Noora Kushti to many people) they need a break before playing in Hyderabad on Nov. 5th. So, lets give them a break and talk about tomorrow’s match in Abu Dhabi.

This is another Ch2-Panti team selection, I wonder why they have to keep bringing back Salman’s Butt? This is the reason why Malik does not want to open the innings with Akmal because, this way he can create room for Nikki Butt to get in to the playing XI. Salman Butt should not be in the squad and I don’t know how many times they will try him? Tendulkar justifies selection because of his 17000 odd runs and 44 centuries but, what has Salman behind his Butt?

It may sound odd that I am bringing Tendulkar into this discussion but, it is relevant because, like the expression goes, Tout en une fin, or ‘everything comes to an end.’ Look at Jayasuriya, they have removed him from the opening slot and bringing him as an all-rounder who can bat at number 6-7 and also bowl. They do not have the guts to sack Jayasuriya or drop him, but this (Indian tour of SL) will be his last chance to prove his slow death or euthanasia whichever he chooses.

Javed Khan,

I have found the “smoking gun” of what I was saying. The evidence of the dossier has largely been inconsistent, but people say, rightly, where is the motivation?

The motivation is here–quite along the lines I had hypothesized. The colonel is admitting in plain words. Now see the sequence of events in retrospect, from a year bomb blasts goin on in India, many staged by Hindu extremists to implicate Muslims, Varun Gandhi and the like from BJP giving anti-Muslim political speech, and right before the elections, the major attack, two birds in one stone. The credibility of the link is irrelevant since the author is simply citing the colonel’s direct words:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44418097@N00/3081429931/

I quote from the above:

“Purohit has also confessed to training Hindu terrorists for attacking Muslims, besides

training them for attacking Samjhauta Express for which he had also supplied them

RDX. He further confessed that it was intended to cause armed conflict between

Pakistan and India so that anti-Muslim passions could be nurtured in India, leading to

violence.

The Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) claimed that Purohit supplied RDX to one “Bhagwan” for

Samjhauta Express blast. Public prosecutor Ajay Misar said Abhinav Bharat’s treasurer

Ajay Rahirkar had handed Rs2.5 lakh to Lt Col P S Purohit.

. Lt Col P S Purohit who provide RDX Samjhota Train blasts and also being interrogated for

other bomb blasts in India.

“Gandhiji also said ‘politics without religious values is of no use to me’. He meant the

Dharma. Dharma needs to be in politics otherwise it will become immoral” Singh

argued.

Dipankar Gupta argued that BJP can never ever rid itself of its Hindutva agenda. “When

you come down to the wire, the defining characteristic of the BJP is Hindutva. It can

occasionally take on other issues as well like economic regeneration but everybody is

talking about that. So what’s different about the BJP? The difference is Hindutva. So

when push comes to shove, their Hindutva colours come out.”

and,

I can’t believe the colonel is comparing himself to Gandhi, we have utmost respect for Gandhi. Gandhi was a beacon of tolerance and I have always wondered why we don’t revere Gandhi in Pakistan as a great personality of the subcontinent, our claim on him as much as any other person from India. Unfortunately, the way the colonel has used Gandhi as a motivation is a distortion of epic proportions, it isn’t something Gandhi ever advocated. What Gandhi obviously implied was that politics should be consistent with spirituality and moral character.

Yaar, Omer Manmani from where did you get hold of this website THAIINDIAN?

aur koi website nahi mila apna point prove karne ko….pehle wo saari arguments wapis le ke aao jo maine last year likhi thhi only then i would get in to this debate…

In Btw why are you so perturbed by what Varun Gandhi says? He is CH2So4 as J>A>K says and a very insignificant politician as it is BJP is FINISHED in India so stop worrying about Hindu Extremism and look for solutions for Islamic Extremism all over the World including places like Malaysia where discrimination is systematically induced in the constitution..or for that matter the Arab world which is still the most Racist in the World.

and as i had said so many times last year the threat of Hindu Extremism is only within India, all these Hindu Extremist do not have any ambitions to rule the world or make Hinduism the only dominatiing religion as some of the Jewish or Islamic or even Christian extremists aspire to do….

As long as Hindu Extremists creat raucous n chaos inside India, it should not be a cause of botheration to any Non-Indian and specifically our dear neighbours because you have bigger problems to solve than focussing on this insignificant issue.

Has there been any Hindu Extremist who has exploded himself on the Pakistani Soil ?
NO, So stop worrying about wrong things and instead put your brains at work to find a solution for peaceful co-existence between Sindhis, Pathans, Punjabis, Balochs, Shias and Sunnis….

All arguments against Tendulkar does not mean anything as Once again as it has happened so many times in his career that the decision was a bit harsh otherwise he was really in the mood to score big yesterday.

Anyways, as someone mentioned we missed Gambhir yesterday and now when he is back in the next one let’s see what the result is.

the Arab world which is still the most Racist in the World. Varun

Varun I have been saying this from a long time but to no avail. And, look at the entire Western world, India, Pakistan and all other countries are sucking up to them, WHY? Paisa and Politics! The west doesn’t want any democracy in the Arab world because the monarchy suits them so why the HELLO are they interested in implementing democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan and other countries?

As regards Hindu Extremists exploding himself on Pakistani soil, first of all NO Pakistani Muslim has exploded himself on the Indian soil either. So, you should not worry about Pakistani Muslims or extremists. If you talk about Kashmiris they are Indians aren’t they? The Tamils are Hindus and they have exploded themselves in India, remember that woman who exploded herself in Chennai to kill Rajiv Gandhi? Who was she? The smaller incidents are not reported by the media, but it happens, its not that India is a Paradise of Peace.

The other report is most of the so-called Talibans or whoever got killed in ambush are not even Muslims it has been proved so many times when they discovered their uncut diamonds and rubies. An extremist Muslim will never leave that thingi uncut. Most people talk openly about who they are and from where they are and I am not going to write it here, its for you to find out.

I won’t get into this argument anymore if you sincerely believe that no Pakistani has exploxed himself on the Indian soil before.

Talking about that women who killed Rajiv Gandhi it is very well known that she was a member of LTTE and hence a SRILANKAN TAMIL that has got nothing to do with Hindu Extremism so please do not mix different issues. Who says it was not reported in the Indian Media. We all know where she came from and even Prabhakaran silently admitted that it was LTTE who carried out that operation. LTTE is not based on Religion but on Race as 1960’s Mr Bandarnaike did the same thing in Srilanka what Zia-ul-Haq did in Pakistan by declaring Sinhalese as the only state language and systematic discrimination of Tamils and it was then when groups like LTTE and various other Tamil organisations took up arms.

As an Indian i am more worried about my Country and it’s borders and citizens so existence of Taliban and other Religious extremist groups in Pakistan directly pose a threat to our security and lives when people like the Talibani chief openly says that after conquering Pakistan their mission is to fight the hindu Infidels of India.

and if all this is not enough, Pakistan government has come out with the most ridiculous allegation that Indians are supporting Taliban. It’s aclear case of digressing from the real issue and all this ‘Drama’ of a Military Offensive against the Pakistani Taliban by the Pakistani Army is nothing but just a propaganda exercise to get more dollars from you know where. If this is not the case then how do you explain the recent bombings in Rawalpindi when just moments before the explosion Pakistan Army was boasting about capturing 125 militants in Waziristan.

The only Pakistani Newspaper i read regularly is Dawn and I would advise Omer Admani also to read that newspaper instead of looking for controversies on websites like Thaiindian or for that matter AhmedQureishi.

Varun,

What you seem not to consider is that, Hindus aren’t 30 percent or so of the population in the Arab world. India has a huge Muslim population “within” India. This Muslim population in India isn’t liable to Arabs.

As for Arabs, history is not on their side anyway, Arabs historically were tribes, and it is only the discovery of oil which has made them rich, but it is a very small amount of time that they have had wealth. Arabs haven’t built industrialized economies through their wealth, they have made no advances in science or technology, and so on. Even when Muslims were at their zenith around the world, the large-scale scientific discoveries and intellectual thought were coming from Persia and the Subcontinent, two civilizations which are 5000-years old. Arabs, without oil, don’t have the sophistication of thought and scientific advancement to sustain growth. They aren’t educating the masses and investing in sustainable growth, they’d rather keep them in the dark. In other words, the wealth that is coming out of the well, is simply being transferred to another empty well.

But this is a digression, in any case, why should Arabs care about Pakistan or India?

What’s wrong with the website? I’d agree if the website were promoting a view, providing a theory, but a website that is simply reporting facts, what is wrong with it? I believe it is an Indian website as well.

Nobody really wants to suck upto the Arabs…the day someone invents an alternative to Petrol it will all end. It’s the same reason why most of the Western Europe is dependent on Russia for OilnGas. Arabs have straightaway jumped from Camels to Ferraris when the Americans discovered Oil for them in the 1920-30’s (they can boast about whatever wealth and development they have achieved in the recent past but dimaag se abhi bhi wohi hai jo 100 saal pehle thhe)and Unfortunately Saudi Arabia is sitting over 200 Years of Oil n Gas Reserves which is not a good sign because if by then they are able to export their brand of Wahabbism to all corners of the Globe then the Judegement Day would not be that far and we will all die killing each other…

Omer point taken but the real problem arises when Saudia uses Mecca and Islam as tools to portray themselves as the most pure land or the most sacred land and then all the poor and ignorant Muslims of the Subcontinent or Malaysia or Indonesia start viewing them as the most perfect Society or the most perfect Heaven on earth and start to believe in their way of life blindly this feeling combined with poverty are the real reasons behind any Muslim whether Indian or Pakistani becoming a Terrorist.

Varun Sweetheart,

Pakistan’s allegations aren’t unfounded, or any more unfounded than the whole Mumbai affair. Indians, of course, are supporting Taliban in order to weaken Pakistan. This is in their interest, to weaken Pakistan, or to make it break apart (I mean India as a country, not the people, this is just the way the world works). But this is something expected, I don’t think it is as big a deal, Pakistan probably would have done the same in place of India. What I don’t understand is that, why do they blame Pakistan when something goes wrong in India ( at least Malegon, Samjhota Express are “concrete” cases of that). In fact, to be honest, it is really hard to comprehend what is going on in the whole region, definitely there is a lot of foreign ivolvement, possibly playing 2,3 sides at the same time. It could well be that the ISI is being paid to do all the dirty work, and is working along with the Indian agencies in some instances. The ISI is a state unto itself, and doesn’t act under any of the auspicies of the charter of Pakistan…in other words, the ISI are essentially a collection of independent officers with not necessarily a beauracratic structure, answerable to the top, and thereby to the govt. If you take all the officers, past and present, that have been in the ISI, it could well be that variously and independently, for money, they are doing te dirty work for foreign agencies. In other words, various officers providing their skills independently of each other to various interest groups. The problem, of course, is that there is no definition to ISI, it is not answerable to the head of the state, it is an umbrella organization that no-one knows why it is there and what purpose it serves. This being the case, it is not to impossible that the ISI is working outside the scope of, and interst of, Pakistan, various officers working independently of each other with various other agencies and interest groups around the world.

This is the way I see it; there are various interest groups..

1) The Taliban (and Muslim extremism) which seeks power
2)Hindutiva ideologues which seek power in India in the same way as the Taliban
3) The US which it hard to say what it seeks in the region, its presence in the region is very dubious
4)Israeli intelligence which seeks a weakeed, perhaps broken, Iran, Iraq, and Pakistan

Now the agencies, ISI, RAW– in fact individual members and groups within these agencies– might be working independently of each other for the sake of these interest groups. It is equally possible that the members of both the agencies might come together within the umbrella of an interest group and play their assigned roles as prescribed by the interest groups to accomplish a certain act or goal.

Omer,

On your items #1 to #4, point #2 comparing Hindutva ideologues to Taliban is taking it to the extreme and laughable. No one would ever state these two are same, Hindutva ideologues such as RSS, VHP, Bajrang Dal, and Shiv Sena are for sure extremists, and they do have their supporters, but they will never ever get to the level of danger that Taliban proposes, not because they are lesser evil, but because they will never get that power. Indians are far more secular society than any in the sub-continent to let that happen.

In fact BJP has to run as a toned down version of these ideologues to get into power, why was it that LK Advani who is the more hard core leader could not get to PM position in India, and they had to compromise by having the more secular and hence the less hard liner AB Vajpayee become PM? Because the Indian society will never allow a Hindu hardliner to be the commander in chief.

They seek power, through the watered down BJP, but as Varun said before BJP is finished in India.

Newguy,

What in your view constitutes power?

BJP won 116 seats versus 205 seats for INC. It is true that there is a huge difference, but the fact remains that the BJP is the only alternative to INC (and seats in parliament= political power and leverage).
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/17/AR2009051702212.html

To quote from the above:
“Instead, the party said Gandhi was a victim of a political conspiracy. Despite debate about whether he had damaged the party nationally, Gandhi won his constituency and became the BJP’s star campaigner in many other areas. ”

His rhetoric did make him win and, in fact, became the BJP’s “star campaigner”. This is what I mean, it worked. It was calculated on his part.

In Pakistan extreme parties never come close to winning, none of the alternatives to the present govt are any extreme Muslim parties (take PML N, PML Q, MQM, and so on– in fact MQM and the like have secularism as a key point on their agenda).

I understand what you mean, the Taliban is an extreme case, but what you fail to see is that, India is a much more volatile– and religiously diverse– country and anything can happen. The only thing an invisible force needs to do is spark communal riots, extreme snetiments will emerge, and things can change in a very short time. Especially, since normal and secular people like you are unwilling to recognize people like SM Mushrif’s concern, and the fact that the goverment quietly “mopped up” Colonel Prouhit’s– and others– confessions after Karakare’s death and the whole issue, for all its purposes, is under the rug. So, what would you know what is happening from behind? If they have infiltrated some parts of the govt, army, then the only thing left after a certain point in time is, that one day some major incident happens, communal riots begin, and these extreme forces come out and take power (you simply don’t know how profound their influence may be, when the “official” govt deliberately brushed the incident under the rug).

Varun; ********** Munir you must also read this

It is a wrong assumption that the ignorant blokes of the sub-continent, Malaysia and Indonesia view SA as the most perfect society or the most perfect Heaven on earth. Most people openly say that the Saudis are very rude and arrogant and the only reason they have to tolerate them is because of the two holy lands Mecca and Medina. And, mind you it is not Saudi Arabia’s property. They are taking undue advantage of the fact that these two holy lands are in that country.

It is the governments of the sub-continent and Malaysia, Indonesia etc., they suck up to the Saudi Shaikhdom and that is only to get some charity and protection.

There are many, many educated people who say that Mecca and Medina should be independent like the Vatican and there should be no Saudi influence or control over it.

Since the last few years the Saudi government has imposed very high Hajj and Umra fees and it is a wrong assumption that they spend their petro dollars towards the improvement of these places during the Hajj season. There are 3 million people performing Hajj every year and if they pay 1000 dollars towards the Hajj fees (not to mention the amount they spend in SA during their stay, the fees alone collected is 3,000,000,000, how much is that ……… 3 billion? This is just the Hajj fees that is collected, there is Umra fees to and millions of people perform Umra during the entire year, so double that amount.

It is more than enough to provide 5 star facilities but, look at the mess that happens during the Hajj time and the economy gets a big boost from the Hajees who stay in the hotels and buy consumer products, the service industry gets a big boost. And the amount of lambs, goats, cows and camels that are slaughtered and sacrificed by these people are all collected by the Saudi government and processed in the food labs and even the skin and bones are processed, packed and profited upon. So, who are they fooling?

So, who is saying that these hypocrites are doing any favour to the Muslim world? When their own Shaiks or any member of the ruling family comes to the Kabah for the Tawaf, the security forces cordon off the entire area for them and they perform Hajj like V. VIP’s like no one should be touching their shoulders.

When the Saudi, Kuwaiti, UAE and other nationality students they come here and say, brother, brother, brother, I tell them to F off, I am not your brother. The way you guys treat Indians and Pakistanis in your country is highly deplorable, you treat them like trash and here you call us brother? Go, F yourself. And, they can’t do anything to you here, they simply listen like cowards. And, I remind the Kuwaitis that when Saddam Hussain’s forces entered Kuwait, they are the first one to run away to Saudi Arabia and to the UAE, whereas some Indians and Pakistanis remained in Kuwait throughout the Gulf War.

What F’king business has Osama Bin Ladin has in Pakistan and Afghanistan? That MF is a Saudi and the Americans are still friends with the Bin Ladin family and the Saudi government. Reportedly all the nineteen so-called terrorists involved in 911 bombing were Arabs, 15 Saudis, 3 UAE nationals and 1 Egyptian or, whatever that number is, but there was not a single Pakistani or Afghani among them and since 911 Afghanistan is being bombed. Whereas, there is nothing to destroy and yet they keep bombing that Godforsaken country.

Javed saab for once “I am in your agree totally” and from my own experiences with working with Arabs not in Middle_East but in Europe i can say that not only they are the most Racist but also the biggest Hypocrites they share the No.1 Rank probably with the Americans.

The normal tendency of any American towards Europe is that “We saved your asses in 1945″ and normally my answer to this is What have you done since 1945? starting with Korean Wars, Vietnam, skirmishes in South-America, support for Saddam during Iran-Iraq War and when he got out of hand taking over of Iraq, creating a big mess in Afghanistan and now Pakistan is also dragged into the mess and maybe in few years India would also actively involved in the Bush’s War on Terror. Most of this was due to insatiable appetite of the Americans for the World’s Oil. Consider this they are 5% of World’s population but consume about 20% of World’s resources and after these facts MF/BC/MC Bush had the audacity to say last year that People in India and China have started eating more that’s we have a Food Shortage Crises when at their own backyard they even started producing fuel frolm Corn.

There is so much coverage and good-will for the Americans in the Netherlands that Jokingly people say that it is the 53rd State of USA. 52 ofcourse being CANADA! But most of the Americans from the South like Mississipi,Oklahoma, Florida and Texas do not view Canada in any positive light and think that they are totally dependent on USA for their Security as Canada is protected from immmigrant troubles by America in the South and the Pacific Ocean protects them in the East while Arctic Snow protects them in the North and the West.

Omer,

Agreed that BJP won 116 seats as of now but if they do not reform themseleves before the next elections then this number is sure to go down in the next elections because BJP is suffering from lack of leadership and the current BJP president Rajnath Singh is a stooge of RSS and VHP and hence they took extreme Talibani style measures to expel Jaswant Singh and probably Arun Shourie.

Once upon a time when Vajpayee was at the helm of things educated middle class Indians like me saw BJP as an alternative not because of their connection with extremist Hindu groups but because they had some really educated people who did not get into petty politics as Congress Party had done since Nehru’s times. But now things are different and as a senior expelled BJP leader said they are now like Kati- Patang or Alice in Blunderland.

Also I would like to clarify that RSS is not essentially 100% extremist organisations I know many moderates all over India who were or are memebers of RSS but it is just that it also consists of a lot of poor and illiterate and ignorant people who just like many sections of the Muslim community in India only thrive on the Division between Hindus and Muslims and they want to keep this division intact for as long as possible.

Just like there are parts in India in Delhi,Ahmedabad, Hyderabad, Bangalore and parts of UP where still people celebrate when Pakistan wins against India, there are places in India which are Hindu-Hotbeds and it was from such a place only where Varun Gandhi won but he can only go at the State Level because only in India we are so much obsessed with the word SECULARISM that he will never be able to win at the Centre as long he openly makes hate speeches against the Muslims.

Just yesterday the Deobandh issued a fatwa against one of the National Songs called Vande Matram which was so beautifully sung by none other than a Muslim although a converted one A.R.Rahman. They are trying to unnecessirily whip up emotions even when the objectionable parts of this song which said that One should always worship the land of your Country which was supposedly against the tenets of Islam as Muslims can only worship the Almighty Allah (PBUH) had been removed as early as 1960’s when Nehru only appointed a commitee to extract the acceptable lines from Vande Matram.

Even the great poet Allama Iqbal has said:-

patthar ki muraton mein samjha hai tu Khuda hai
khak-e-watan ka mujh ko har zarra dewata hai

Which if i understand correctly means that worshipping your Country and worshipping God goes hand in hand. I would request Javed A.Khan to pour his thoughts on the correct interpretation of these lines taken from the Poem sach keh dun ai brahman gar tu bura na mane

Omer,

You talk about communal riots, have you lived through one to what it is like? most likely not, I know what it is because I have, and that is something someone who knows how it feels not want to happen again. I was 16 years old when communal riots broke between Hindus and Muslims in my small town back in India, it began as a small thing, like you said a spark, someone a member of the so called lower caster Hindu, he was an RSS sympathizer, naturally they got involved, it was allegedly by Muslim youths, so RSS folks attacked Muslim homes, no one lost their lives but there were plenty of bodily injuries on both sides and some homes had their compound walls destroyed.

Then came the Police, they did not spare anyone, they hunted down RSS, most of them fled town and went to live with relatives in other places, Muslim youths left homes too, Police took whoever they could get hold of, you what happens to those people who are unlucky enough to end up in Police station without me telling I figure. I was in school away, but no one came to our house, all of my uncles and my family lived without any problem, our family was not involved in anything, and we had no problem with any Muslims or RSS people. Police warned people that if there is another problem in this town things will become really bad, they will raid every home and take everyone, people were scared enough, few weeks went by, slowly folks who went in hiding came back. Life went on moving normally, there was fear in everyone’s mind and there was distrust in general with each other, but no violent incidents happened. When I came to live there after finishing school, things were almost normal, I stayed far away from RSS, I did not make any enemies with them, it’s not very smart to do so, especially if you are living with these folks around you, instead best thing is to mind your business and not get involved, I had Muslim friends, I went to their homes frequently, their family treated me with great love and respect, and I had no reason ever to distrust any of them. Sure there were some bad elements within Muslim community, just like on any community, you just stay clear of these folks, I did until eventually I left. People went along their business, Hindus and Muslims conducted business with each other, they talked to each other, they still had distrust in their back of their minds, but not all Hindus were extremist RSS, only some, so Muslims had nothing to distrust others. They were not extremely friendly with each other though, me and some of my other Hindu friends were exceptions, RSS folks were not very fond of us, but we didn’t care and we were minding our business anyway, and we had the backing of our families, so we had nothing to fear anyone.

My family still lives there, to date there has not been another incident in that town, people learned their lesson, no one wants to go through that again.

So, yes, India is not perfect, I know, I lived there, I know what a communal riot means, it’s horrible, but it’s part of being India, unfortunately, but I think even after all that there is still a common bonding, Hindus and Muslims in India are destined to live with each other, they have been for thousands of years, and they will continue to do so, with all their differences and their lack of trust with each other, they will find a way.

Bottomline is that Hindu religion is a very loosely defined religion, you can take it to the extreme, but large majority of Hindus are not crazy about their religion, they are non practicing in other words, and they want tolerance, they want to co-exist with Muslims, Sikhs, Christians, and others. They will not let extremists take power. BJP has some power by way of controlling seats in Parliment, but the BJP itself is not an extremists party, only factions within it, by and large they try to project themselves as center party, but Indians know they are not, and they don’ get to do any of the extreme agenda they have. Sure they are right wing Hindu nationalist, but you must also consider BJP has it’s power coming from a few concentrated states, there are places they can evoke Hindu extremist sentiments and get votes, but they cannot change the shape of the country, if they had their way they would have built Ram temple in the place Babri Masjid was destroyed, but this did not happen, and this will not happen.

South India is unassailable to BJP, they will not win a single state and they will not get many parliamentary seats, if at all any from the Southern states. Without being able to each into the power corridors of South India, BJP cannot be called a nationalist party, they are concentrated in UP, Bihar, Gujarat, Rajasthan, Maharashtra, and Madhaya Pradesh. They do not have much hold in East either. So in the end BJP is concentrated in some of the North Indian states, India is much more than that fortunately.

Omer @ 211,

The Indian establishment at the top knows that a Weak Pakistan is not in India’s favour after all it is also a very highly populated country and amongst the top 10 highly populated Countries. I do not understand how can you believe that Taliban (Pakistani) could ever be friendly with Indians when they openly say that they are only fighting Pakistanis because they are listening to America otherwise their real enemy is India and if you just assume if today there was a war between India-Pakistan then there is absolutely no doubt that all the different factions within Pakistan would unite to fight the Indians. Even yesterday there was a report that said that Pakistani Taliban is going to transport some Talibanis on the Eastern Front to get into India during this winter – this exercise which we Indians have named Infiltration has been going since many years and was at it’s peak when Benazir was the Top Leader. Every winter there are armed personnel not necessarily Kashmiris who try to cross the Indian Border something which Javed A. Khan had acknowledged last year to create more attacks with in India and even then if he believes that no Pakistani has created chaos on Indian Soil (forget about our latest man the Kasab) then I do not really know what to say?

Why did the Pakistani government admit that Mr Kasab is a Pakistani? They could have gone on the usual denial route which had been taken all these years? Now don’t tell me that it was Uncle Sam again who pressurized them in doing so?

I can understand about Balochistan or Waziristan because there is a huge presence of Indians in Afghanistan but Indians supporting Pakistani Taliban is a complete hogwash by the confused Pakistani Government. As far as Balochis are concerned they are like cornered tigers in Pakistan. Do you know that there are hardly any Balochs even in the Balochian Regiment of Pakistani Army and instead it comprises of mainly Punjabis. There has been a long history of a deficit of trust by the Pakistani Establishment as far as Balochs are concerned and the main reason why this Baloch problem has really flared up now is because Musharraf blindly took lot of American Dollars while killing of many Baloch Leaders like Bugti and now they are really incensed and hence the demand for a separate Country/Leadership hence this problem just like the Talibani Problaim is an internal problem of Pakistan.

Varun Suri,

It wasn’t uncle Sam, it was Pakistani media which discovered his supposed village (I believe it was DAWN) and found his father. At the same time, he had dissapeared from Pakistan years back (he was living with his father and had left abruptly). It could be many things in between, he has been variously cited as being in Nepal, Indian Agencies could have picked him– this is not too difficult to do.

Anyway, I’ll reply to the other parts later.

Varun Suri,

Kashmir is a totally different issue. To understand Kashmir we will have to go in the past and start a totally new story. In any case, Pakistan has started the process of independence and autonomy of its side of Kashmir. Will India follow suit?

What happens anywhere inside India can be presumptiously blamed on Pakistan. Even if a bird dies off the coast of Australia, the assumption with which the govt in India functions is that the Pakistani govt is somehow the most ultimate cause.

I don’t imply with certainty anything about the Mumbai attacks, I don’t know, and I try to understand and hypothesize myself. However, Malegon blasts and Samjhota Express blasts have been blatantly done by elements within India, and that is a bare fact. However, in every incident, the country initially maligned is Pakistan. That is what appears on the BBC, CNN, and after evidence is unfolded to the contrary, the matter is deep buried and none of the international news media report it.

As for Taliban, they are more of a political organization, warlords, drug-dealers, and people who derive their sustenance through these means. The religious angle in this is only part of the equation and not the primary motivation. I still don’t see why India wouldn’t weaken Pakistan, the role of Indian embassies, and agents, in Afghanistan is well documented by Pakistani sources. That the international media avoids such discourse is not Pakistan’s fault. As you say, the Indians are really wary of Taliban and the “fanatics” over there. Consider this:
http://www.embassiesabroad.com/embassies-in/Afghanistan
There are 5 Indian embassies in Afghanistan. Now don’t tell me that 5 Indian embassies are there to print visas for the Taliban to enter India? Are you suggesting, that these people who are out to destroy India (as you say), are being given visas through 5 Indian embassies in Afghanistan, a country the size of Texas?
I don’t know about you, but I really doubt they are there to hand out visas. In fact there is one Indian embassy in Pakistan, and there are, I believe, three US embassies in India, and considering the amount of printing paper required for the visas of people migrating from India (Pakistan) to the US (both countries much bigger than Afghanistan, in population and size), India would be just about 20-30 percent Taliban by now.

Anyway, don’t take what I say personally, its just that all the Pakistani news channels are banned in India, the media doesn’t give the whole story, and Indians generally aren’t able to hear the other side of the story.

Just think about it, you say provide credible, Indian sources, but after searching for archives on major and “credible” Indian media, this is what I found of SM Mushrif:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/city/pune/Power-brothers-/articleshow/35967812.cms

The Times of India has found space in the magazine to write about the “power” brothers, but his book, “Who Killed Karakare” (which I have posted about above) hasn’t gotten any review or mention from any major news media in India. Unbelievable, right?

So, are we to confine our knowledge by, and believe, only that which major Indian media outlets are willing to convey?

Omer,

1. India is much bigger both in size and population than Pakistan than from the same link you posted about the Embassies in Afghanistan. Can you explain Why Pakistan also has 5 Embassies/Consulates in the same cities where India has its consulates? India always had good relations with Afghanis and Pathans except a few dissidents:):) but Pakistan had never been so close to Afghanistan since it’s inception so Why does Pakistan need 5 consulates in Afghanistan?
So this argument is totally baseless.

2. You are totally mixing up things when you combine the small time incidents like Malegaon, Samjhauta with something as big as Mumbai attacks. Like many other incidents the Indian establishment blindly pointed fingers at Pakistan when Malegaon happened. But the main culprits behind that were caught and are already behind prison so this issue is dead and buried. That Colonel was not a part of any Big Organization like Taliban and there’s was a group effort of a very small bunch of people. The same thing is true for Samjhauta express.

3. TimesofIndia is a gossip newspaper and although it might be the biggest selling newspaper in India but any person interested in Politics knows that to get genuine news India has only One Paper the Hindu which can compare with The Dawn of Pakistan. The fact that you are quoting information from Indian sources regarding Mushrif and Mishra does not perturb me at all because it’s people like them and Arundhati Roy which makes India a great democracy where anyone and everyone can come up with anything for whateever reasons. The kind of freedom of speech you have here is probably not anywhere in the World except for certain very liberal countries like in the Scandinavia or even Netherlands. It’s good that the Sceptics like all these people and yourself bring out such issues in the open and I would be glad if all the facts are laid bare on the table for all of us to know who exactly is behind it.

4. If this is not enough already LeT members were planning to celebrate the 26/11 anniversary by attacking the National Defense College in Delhi amongst 4 other targets.

5. The culprits behind the small time Malegaon blasts have already been Punished but why are members of LeT like Hafeez are roaming openly in Pakistan and further inciting people against India.

6. Moreover the Pakistani government is not helping things by un-necessarily shifting the blame on India when just few months ago Mr. Rehman himself admitted that this Blame-Game will not lead us anywhere.

7. Even though there was an extreme public reaction to the Mumbai Blasts, the Congress government other than threatening and applying verbal pressure did not do much and Extremists like Hafeez and Dawood are openly living in Pakistan.

Is it not that Pakistan wants to use these people against India when the right time will come otherwise what could be the reason that they are protecting Dawood Ibrahim in Karachi when he is a listed International Terrorist in Interpol? If the Pakistani government really wants to sort out things with India then Why don’t they take any steps to punish such people who in the past have incited hatred against India or killed innocent people getting on with their lives.

Now there is no need to bring in Srikant Purohit as a tit-for-tat because he is already being tried for a Crime committed on the Indian Soil or for that matter Varun Gandhi for his hate speeches because he might be a Muslim-Hater but he has not uttered a word against Pakistan yet.

8. How can the Indians trust Pakistan when Pakistanis themselves do not trust their inefficient government? There might be extremists(both Hindu or Muslim) in India but at least there is a stable government at the Centre where there are certain very educated and responsible people like SM Krishna, Manmohan Singh and PC Chidambaran, Shashi Tharoor to name a few. Even though I am not a big Congress supporter but I am proud of such people and accept the fact that this is not only the best but the only alternative for the Indian people as the only other Party which can rival them is the BJP and they are on a downward spiral and unless they reform themselves and find an enigmatic leader like Vajpayee they are finished and the Gandhi-Raj will Rule India again for few decades once Rahul Gandhi is ready to be the PM.

Varun,

The whole comment is full of false arguments and distortion of facts. I’ll revert.