LEGSLIP

Javed A Khan

Despite not liking Tendulkar’s style, you have shown you are not less than a maestro yourself by composing this thread which is full of praises for the Little Master, who was born to bat.

Fantastic thread!

Sachin has been a great ambassador for the game. Which player is the best and why will always remain a subjective interpretation. But, Sachin has captured imagination of people in India like no other player. His fan-following has been unequal in cricket, he has carried the hopes and dreams of a nation of a billion people, and that in itself is yet another milestone for Tendulkar, in a career full of records and milestones. That fact, and that he is the torch-bearer of Indian cricket, will remain unchanged. Where Lara was a magician on the field, Sachin is the magician off it: The spell that he has cast on his followers cannot be dismembered by any other individual player in the history of cricket, and pehaps, even modern history of the sport. Whatever crude fact that may lie beneath, it is perception and imagination that counts– the game, after all, exists because people watch it– and in that sense, Tendulkar is the greatest cricketer ever, even surpassing Sir Donald Bradman. With Tendulkar, it wouldn’t be a sin to create reality based on imagination alone, even if it tampers with fact, so that our experience of his batsmanship is surreal and creative rather than crude and real, for Sachin is not a reflection of what a player is, but what he aspires to be.

Omer

What you have said in comment no 4 has captured my imagination and cast a spell on me. If you were Abdul I would have accused you of stealing that from somewhere.

I would very politely and respectfully state that Tendulkar has created magic on the field too by playing the most impossible shots off impossible balls. But, this is something that goes without saying and something we have discussed many times.

Also, Omer, Tendulkar has also cast a spell on many non-Indians. He is the most admired cricketer in the world. Do you not agree? I know Indians will always perceive him as godly or whatever, because he is an Indian icon at the end of the day, but he is easily the most revered cricket of the modern era.

Khansahab,

You will realize that, I have used the word, “his fans”– from all over the world.

And, wow, thanks for accusing me of plagiarism

Javed Khan,

What a wonderful piece, you have written some really beautiful phrases, I am not saying this because you wrote this as a tribute to Tendulkar, but you have organized it really well and written nicely, especially when to say what things, like you found this poem which is so appropriate in the context that you have used it.

Like I have been saying all along I never believed you or Omer Admani are biased against Tendulkar because he is Indian and you are Pakistani, and this blog of your prove it, someone who is bigoted would have never been able to write this. You have shown great character by writing this especially because I know for a fact you do not consider Tendulkar as the greatest, but you are honoring his achievements without prejudice. I also know that you are not the type who writes something to please everyone. For all those reasons this is a wonderful blog.

To me Tendulkar is not God or anywhere close, I said it before too, my personal favorite is Viv Richards, my heroes are more manly, Gladiator like if you will, in this regard there is only Richards that comes closer.

Lastly, regarding that child picture, the first thing that stuck me in that is the perfect batting stance, without even reading your post about it, I saw it and I noticed the leg position, hands position, and the head position, everything neatly aligned in perfect poise, ready to face the bowler! This makes it even more disappointing given than Tendulkar had the gift from that early he still not fulfill his true potential. If he is simply being remembered for his records and longevity in the game then he has clearly underachieved. Like Kapil Dev said, I too hope he spends whatever time he has left in the game to dominate the bowlers and not worry about any more milestones.

Sachin Tendulkar upsets right-wing Hindus

MUMBAI: Indian cricket legend Sachin Tendulkar on Monday found himself at the centre of a political storm after comments he made about his identity upset a hardline regional Hindu party.

The 36-year-old batsman, who at the weekend marked 20 years in Test cricket, said in interviews with television channels that he was an ‘extremely proud’ Maharashtrian, referring to his home state of which Mumbai is the capital.

‘But I am an Indian first. And Mumbai belongs to all Indians,’ he added.

His declaration — in a country where regional identity is still fiercely guarded — provoked the ire of the founder of far-right Shiv Sena party.

‘Your statement that Mumbai belongs to all India has hurt each Maharashtrian’s heart,’ wrote founder Bal Thackeray in the local Marathi-language newspaper Saamna.

The hardline Hindu nationalist party has been a self-styled promoter of ‘Maharashtrian pride’ for nearly four decades, championing the rights of local people over ‘outsiders’, often with violence.

His party was instrumental in changing the name of Bombay to Mumbai in the mid-1990s.

The Sena lost to the ruling Congress party and its allies in last month’s state elections.

Sena offshoot the Maharashtra Navnirman Sena (MNS), run by Thackeray’s nephew Raj Thackeray, has also taken up the ‘Maharashtra for Maharashtrians’cause.

Last week, MNS deputies attacked a fellow lawmaker in the state assembly who wanted to take the oath of office in Hindi, one of the many official languages of India, rather than Marathi.

Indian cricket’s governing body, the Board of Control for Cricket in India (BCCI), on Monday reacted strongly to the row involving Tendulkar, who is seen as one of Mumbai’s greatest sons and is revered like a god by millions.

‘These comments are completely uncalled for. Tendulkar is a nationalist. He was born in India, he is for India. If somebody calls himself an Indian first, is it a crime?’ said BCCI spokesman Rajiv Shukla.

Tendulkar, the world’s most successful Test and one-day batsman, is playing his 160th Test match against Sri Lanka, after making his debut as a 16-year-old on November 15, 1989 against Pakistan in Karachi.

Newguy

Thanks for your compliments.

It’s a big compliment to us that you say what you like about us is that we are genuine writers and we don’t write to please or oppose anyone. Yes, that is true and especially true of Javed A Khan.

In fact this is the biggest compliment for any writer, that he is appreciated even when people may not necessarily agree with his views. That is the beauty of Legslip- the managers (myself included ) are par excellence and of course people like you, Omer Admani, Varun etc make it fun and worthwhile to have this blog and manage it.

Javed,

I know you are saying, it’s not just in your experience, I have plenty of such experiences in my work as well, people listen up when it is a man or women of some stature and power, otherwise even if you talk sense a lot of them generally don’t pay attention unless it has the blessing of someone in power. For this reason, I have seen many of my co-workers suck up to their boss, I was never the type who suck up to the bosses just to get in their good books and then get favors so on .. I try to make my work speak for itself and I will gladly let go of any opportunities I may get by sucking up.

Coming back to the topic though, I know you said you didn’t direct the comment to me, but I do have an understanding on where you are coming from after that, however let me go back and repeat why we had that debate in the first place. That was not because I have misunderstood it.

In the first place, I have debated with Omer Admani about the incorrect statements he has made about Tendulkar, for instance (1) Tendulkar was weaker against McGrath compared to Lara (2) Tendulkar has not played the better bowlers of his time compared to Lara, so on .. Without digging up that topic again, let me say that I wouldn’t change anything in any of that I said countering it.

The only thing I did agree to in Kapil’s interview is the kind of things that I would have agreed to even before we started this debate, I have said it before too on this blog that Tendulkar has disappointed many Indians including myself, so I have finally come to accept his performance the way it is, would I have wanted him to play to his earlier potential he showed in the early 90’s, surely, but for whatever reason he chose a more sedate approach in the second part of his career, I don’t think this is because of any weakness in his part that he did not try to dominate bowling, well, may be it is a weakness, in the sense that he wanted to prolong his career or whatever.. but you get the idea.

It is much easier for me to understand and accept these things as I am far less emotional than many of Tendulkar supporters and I am highly critical of Indian cricket team for many many years. I stopped supporting them blindly a long time back when I realized they aren’t a committed and ruthless bunch who wants to win.

Newguy,

Obviously imo he wasn’t the best test match player that I saw.

For you Viv Richards was the best.

But can you explain that to a young cricketer that aspires to be like Tendulkar, who was the best and why?
And, likewise, can you explain to the millions of people, or the billions that aspire to become like him?

And, what good is a game without its audience– in fact the audience itself makes the game. Otherwise it is just sticks and stones hurled at each other in various ways.

The fact that millions, even, perhaps, billions of people idolize him should alone make him the greatest cricketer ever to have graced the game. I can argue with you who was the best and why I think so, but the bottomline is that the most number of peole like him, and hold expectations from him, and that fact suggests to me that no other player has been his equal in cricket, and so I disregard what my personal opinion might be in terms of pure batsmanship. His record, matchwinning innings, and all other things are matter of much less significance in this context, because players live in the memories of people, and the statistics and rest go into the dustbin of history.

Omer,

Viv Richards was a great player, I liked his style, his presence. Everything with him was majestic. The way he will stroll on to the crease, chewing gum, then he will take guard, he had the sort of lazy arrogance and most bowlers never dared to confront him one on one, he was a powerful hitter of the ball, and he destroyed bowling attacks like no one else did. He never wore a helmet, just that maroon cap, and he will hook if a bouncer is bowled at him.

He had the gladiatorial qualities that bowlers feared, when Richards was out the entire opposition will be relaxed.

So when I say I liked him it is in the sense that he looked so invincible at the crease, and he was almost unlike any other player I have seen, almost superhuman.

I think Tendulkar is a better player than him, Tendulkar has more talents, although not the raw power and personality of Richards, but Tendulkar did not play except a few innings with his true destructive capabilities, I mentioned the match in NZ where he opened for the first time in ODI’s and made 82 off 49 balls, this is how he should have played all along. But then who knows, it is not possible, Shahid Afridi tries to play like that every time, and we know his average is not good because of this, if Afridi plays more sedate then his average will be better.

Javed Khan,

People like Bal Thackeray exists because there are people to support him, in India every fringe politician or goon has his followers. They thrive on by creating fear and anger among their followers. The origin of most of these organizations, if we can call it that, at one point may have been to fight some social injustice, then they fall into the usual hate filled ideology. One thing that keeps the communal balance in India is though that for every Shiv Sena there is also a Jamaat-e-islami countering it’s force, so in a twisted way these warring groups keep each other at arms length. But occasionally it could get out of control and innocents suffer.

No double for Dravid, he is out without adding a run to his overnight score, UWMBCA Waeegedera ended his innings in the 3rd over of the day. I guess another day and early on lapse in concentration did him in. ZK and Bhajji are having some fund, but if India cannot make close to 500 then does not look like good situation for them in terms of winning. Now 500 looks not possible.

I am watching the India-Sri Lanka match, and I’ve got to say, the standard of commentary is sub-par. Ghavaskar tends to push things too much, to the extent that it becomes nagging and annoying. The other Australian commentator that is currently speaking is not as good as some other Australian commentators are (Ian Chappel, Mark Taylor and there is this other former cricketer whose name I have forgotten which are really good). Ravi Shastri has a couple of lines and whenever he comes to commentary he uses one of those lines, “I just get the feeling that something’s got to give” and many others as such.

Seriously, if they can’t find better commentators, they should just put Waqar in the box: At least we can get some light-hearted comedy. During Malik’s captaincy where Pakistan lacked expression and was boring to watch, it was Waqar’s comedy that kept interest in the game. Or, else they could get someone, who knows how to keep things interesting in a cricketing sense…The whole star commentary team lacks ingenuity in terms of how to create interest in the game during a test match.

When England play matches, they have the best commentary, in people like Nasser Hussain, Bumbo (excellent commentator), Boycott, and the like.

I came across this on DAWN (isn’t something really fishy here?):

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/world/12-indian+n-plants+on+terror+alert–bi-09

Pakistan
Court resumes trial of Mumbai suspects in Adiala Court resumes trial of Mumbai suspects in Adiala NEW DELHI: India has put its nuclear installations on terror alert, the Press Trust of India said on Monday, citing home ministry sources.

It said the new measures were ordered after it was found that David Headley, a US citizen arrested by FBI on terror charges, had visited some states having atomic installations.

The PTI said the Indian home ministry had asked all state governments protecting their nuclear plants to step up patrolling and vigil around the facilities as a precautionary measure.

They said that Mr Headley, accused of plotting terror attacks in India on behalf of Pakistan-based LeT, had visited Gujarat, Maharashtra and Uttar Pradesh — all with nuclear installations — raising suspicion that nuclear facilities could be on the radar of the terrorists.

‘The step is precautionary in nature. The states have been asked to increase the vigil and patrolling to thwart any sabotage attempt aimed at these vital facilities,’ a ministry official was quoted as saying.

All these sources are very reliable. I am quoting the Hindu, DAWN, and Hindus Times. Anyway, my intention is not to make any particular arguments myself or bring politics in between, but just to eccentrities like these as they emerge:

When I searched the name of David Headly, this is what came across (note that now he is also been accused of involvement with LET– just ridiculous):

Pakistan
Court resumes trial of Mumbai suspects in Adiala Court resumes trial of Mumbai suspects in Adiala NEW DELHI: India has put its nuclear installations on terror alert, the Press Trust of India said on Monday, citing home ministry sources.

It said the new measures were ordered after it was found that David Headley, a US citizen arrested by FBI on terror charges, had visited some states having atomic installations.

The PTI said the Indian home ministry had asked all state governments protecting their nuclear plants to step up patrolling and vigil around the facilities as a precautionary measure.

They said that Mr Headley, accused of plotting terror attacks in India on behalf of Pakistan-based LeT, had visited Gujarat, Maharashtra and Uttar Pradesh — all with nuclear installations — raising suspicion that nuclear facilities could be on the radar of the terrorists.

‘The step is precautionary in nature. The states have been asked to increase the vigil and patrolling to thwart any sabotage attempt aimed at these vital facilities,’ a ministry official was quoted as saying.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india/Hunt-on-for-David-Headley-s-Mumbai-based-mystery-wife/477226/H1-Article1-477168.aspx

and:

David Headley ‘sleeper cells’ in some States

New Delhi: In the backdrop of American terror suspect David Headley’s visits to India, the Union government on Wednesday warned Gujarat, Uttar Pradesh, Delhi, Uttarakhand and Maharashtra against terror attacks, particularly on military academies.

Sources in the Home Ministry said the alert was issued on suspicion that during his stay in India between 2006 and 2009, Headley, who was arrested by the FBI for allegedly plotting attacks in India for the Lashkar-e-Taiba, may have done a reconnaissance of some vital installations for carrying out strikes.

The sources said it was found that Headley visited Mumbai, Ahmedabad, Lucknow, Agra and Delhi and did a reconnaissance of the National Defence College in New Delhi and vital installations in other cities.

The sources said it was possible that Headley established sleeper cells in these States. He was also recruiting cadres for the Lashkar to send them to a Gulf country using the services of his immigration business in Mumbai.

The States have been asked to coordinate with the Army authorities and the administration of the Indian Military Academy in Dehra Dun and Khadakwasla about security to the vital installations.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india/Hunt-on-for-David-Headley-s-Mumbai-based-mystery-wife/477226/H1-Article1-477168.aspx

I live in UAE for 2 years but I never seen a rain.

Jayasuriya wants a room, but Najaf is not giving him a room.

“Shahid Afridi tries to play like that every time, and we know his average is not good because of this, if Afridi plays more sedate then his average will be better.”

This is exactly why I argue that Sehwag is better than Tendulkar!

Because, by being attacking, it is natural that a player’s average will go down. In fact Afridi has a very good average of around 40 in test matches for the pace at which he plays. But people back there have this preconception that a player who plays fast is not a good test player. Afridi might have been averaging 50 as a test player, but if Zaheer Abbas (for eg) were the selector, he wouldn’t know that, and he would just assume Afridi is not suitable for test cricket because he plays fast. On the other hand, Shoaib Malik might have been averaging 29 in test cricket, but the same selector would select him just by looking at him bat, because “he blocks enough balls”. This is basically the thin and the thick of how Pakistan crickt works, and the surprise usually is how they are able to give decent performances sometimes. But, yes, I totally agree with your statement.

On the other hand, this is precisely why I consider Sehwag a better player “on the field”. In the sense that, Tendulkar is the greatest cricketer ever because he inspires so many people, but Sehwag is a bigger matchwinner on the field.

Omer Admani

“On the other hand, Shoaib Malik might have been averaging 29 in test cricket, but the same selector would select him just by looking at him bat, because “he blocks enough balls”. This is basically the thin and the thick of how Pakistan cricket works, and the surprise usually is how they are able to give decent performances sometimes”.

Well said. It’s always nice to read a comment on such logical grounds of how selection process perhaps works as my thought process here is similar to yours than to give undue reliance on regionalism. I do not dismiss the idea though that the likes of Malik have backing of a big “purchee” than anything else. There is also general tendency of selectors, wrong though it may be, to select an “experienced” player than give good chances to a deserving new player. Whatever the case, in no way I condone that likes of Malik should be selected on such basis or other mediocre players like Salman Butt and Kamran Akmal should ever be made vice-captains. Making them vice-captains can only create distaste amongst others in the team. We did see that happen when Butt was made vice-captain. That’s why I say the changes are needed at the top as this PCB command has proved to be the worst.

Awas,

The problem is, whichever PCB that comes, the pool of selectors from which it will select, will be of ‘old school’. They would, based on their preconceptions, see if a player can just block the ball, he is good for test cricket.

What we need in the Pakistan test team are players like Sehwag who can take the opposition apart on their day and provide the team belief in that ability. If they want to select defensive players like Shoaib Malik, then the standard required of such players should increase substantially, too. In the sense that such players have to be at the Mohd Yousof, Younis Khan calibre to be selected for the team. But a player who is defensive as well as averaging low in the 30s, it doesn’t make sense, plus he adds nothing on the basis of his bowling.

And, people here might interpret me wrong on Tendulkar, when I said whatveer may be the crude fact beneath, I actually meant whatver may be the fact in that, he might be averaging 99 in matchwinning circumstances, it is just that that aspect is irrelevant. In fact there is no other batsman close to Tendulkar in one days, and in test matches he would be on anybody’s top 5, even his worst critics. So, in that sense, that says a lot about why people aspire to be able to bat like Tendulkar.

If test cricket can get enough Afridi’s averaging 45-50 and Sehwag’s averaging high, then the focus point of the game can be the average viewer rather than the ‘romantic’ as it were. I mean, guys like Sehwag and Afridi broaden the game’s appeal (though obviously Sehwag is a much better test batsman), and if we can get enough of them in test cricket, it is good for the game. And, they win matches as well, a team like Pakistan should seek at least 1 or 2 such players, and get rid of players like Malik who are defensive and yet “defenseless” most of the time.

Anyway, I am out, I have a very difficult exam in a few hours.

Omer

The best thing that happened to Malik career wise, apart from his good run as a no 3 ODI batsman, was him announcing his Punjabiism on Nadia Khan Show. You remember that don’t you? It increased his fan following manifold.

Khansahab,

No, I am not aware of what happened at the Nadia Khan show.

But, from what I can see now, it is the spirit of the team himself chanting unity, faith, and discipline from the last 15 days or so. So, it is impossible, that Yousof will make any decision to the contrary himself.

NZ haven’t got a great pace attack, but if that ball is swinging then Bond and Mills can create some problems for the Pakistani openers.

Pakistan will have to rely very heavily on their bowling if they want to win this Test series. It will be tough unless the pitches help them. Pakistani batsmen have traditionally performed commendably against NZ, but firstly the standard of Pakistani batting has deteriorated and secondly, NZ has somewhat improved as a team. So if conditions suit them, the bowlers can do a lot of damage. No one in this Pakistani line up has shown decent skill at playing the seaming ball, Fawad Alam did when he made his century but it is still early days for him. Rest assured the main batsman is Yousuf and the onus is definitely on him to pile on the runs- he will be tested though.

After the NZ series Pakistan will go to Australia where they will be annihilated- no doubt about that. A second string Test team of Australia will destroy Pakistan.

Khansahab,

Actually, if you go through Bonds past performances, he is a very, very dangerous bowler. But what perturbs Pakistan isn’t pace. Pakistani players, apart from Malik and Misbah, have always been adept at playing out-and-out pace bowlers (take Brett Lee, Bond, and others). The bowlers they collapse against are usually the line-and-length type. I remember how Pakistan used to play out Steyn in SA but as soon as Andrew Hall would come to bowling, they’d start collapsing. Keeping with this tradition, they collapsed against Oram and some other line-and-length medium-pacers in the ODI series against NZ.

Imo they are going to pose the biggest threat, especially if pitches offer movement.

Omer

That Nadia Khan Show was the one where he said with a smirk and arrogant body language that he has Punjabi blood running in his veins and that he is a proud Punjabi.

Guys,

I dunno where that Tendulkar Lara debate ended. But nice thread this one Javed. Tendulkar deserves all the applause and more so now that he has made the right choice of beign an Indian first. Vote bank politics will never prosper, some or the otehr day people will realize that we are all humans after all and there should never be any segregartion based on relegion, caste, country, race. Anyway thats a thought and discussion for some other day.

Here I wanna ask you guys what you think about comparison between a bowler and a batsman, especially in todays cricketing times. I think bowlers have greatly suffered due to the T20 format. They are literally taken to the cleaners. This is affecting their bowling skills. I was watching India-Sri Lanka match and I suddenly realized that the bowling has goen from bad to worse. Even a bowler like Murali is facing problems. To be fair, there is not a single bowler in the world right now who will evoke fear in the minds of the batsman! This is something really pathetic. Where are all the Wasims and Waqars and Akhtars and Warnes?

Sadly the game of cricket has become very much batsman-centric. Nowadays teams look for keeper who can bat. With a keeper who can bat, why not have an extra bowler instead of carrying 7 batsman and 4 bowlers in a test match? Alright, Australia at one point of time used this 7-4 policy, but then they had McGrath and Warne.

India has always been left high and dry in the fast bowling department, but never were they having so much issues in the spin department. Sadly Harbhajan is not the same in test anymore. There is a definite effect of T20 on his bowling. Bowlers in general I have observed have developed a defense mindset nowadays thanks to T20.

Pakistan used to produce great quality fast bowlers, I don’t see a single one right now to whom a batsman can fear. Same is the case with Australia.

So my point is rather than having more Tendulkars, right now the world needs more Warnes and McGraths!

Javed Khan,

Murali doesn’t chuck per se. There is a natural deformity, it is visible.

Anyway, this pitch is not supportive of his type of bowling. He took 3 wickets but Indian spinners so far haven’t taken one. The spin is slow and the batsman reads it off the pitch if not the hand. On the 4th, 5th day, if the pitch breaks, then it might suddenly start supporting spinners a lot (when the bounce gets uneven). Murali is certainly not the bowler he was, but he is still pretty good.

You make a good point there about Pakistani players visiting IPL. I think PCB should be aware of that because you never know what might happen and it can unnecessarily flare up tensions between the two countries (if something does happen).

Imo they shouldn’t participate in the IPL. Not because they are against anything India or something along those lines, but they would be opportune targets for those trying to spark tensions.

And, well, if they chase money and something happens, I guess, well, in a way they took the risk. The PCB should instill this in their minds. Because the context is very important and the context here is such that, the players would be an opportune target for those who want to flare tension.

After the experience of Pakistan, I think it is right, that if there are any security concerns, the players shouldn’t visit. I mean two such incidents happening and, ultimately, all players coming out unscathed in both incidences might be pushing chance.

Pawan,

Pakistan has some pretty good bowling talent now, compared to a couple of years ago. If Asif can come back, and Aamer can support him, along with Kaneria, the bowling can improve a lot. Besides that, they can play Afridi as an all rounder who is a much improved bowler. The fifth bowler can be Sohal Khan or someone other than Gul, since Gul hasn’t shown any improvement in his bowling.

Gul doesn’t learn and improve. In the 20/20 world cup when Pakistan had tied against India, he was finding something hysterical, he kept on laughing, and he missed the stumps. Even if he was a new bowler then, in the worldcup, against Ireland, he was bowling back-of-a-length and the batsman were easily able to let his balls go. After seeing this, a bowler would naturally pitch the ball a bit fuller to induce the batsman into driving, but Gul wasn’t able to reason that and he just kept on bowling that same thing throughout the match. Inzamam, being not much different from Gul in this sense, didn’t have a word with Gul and ask him to pitch the ball up, as the pitch was green and had the batsman been induced to drive often enough, they might have nicked it.

Anyway, that is not the brunt of the matter, but it highlights Gul’s perrenial weakness: During the match when he is bowling, he doesn’t think it through. This is why he hasn’t improved, and is, in fact, not even as good as when he started. The unfortunate part is that he doesn’t have an Imran Khan who can have a word with him and provide him with fresh ideas on the field when things are not working out.
Apart from this, there was a time when he was reverse-swinging the bowl which made him pretty good, but I wonder what happened to that skill of his, he seems to do only one thing now and that is bowl short. In some of the bouncier tracks it may work, but it doesn’t seem to be working for him these days.

Gul can play as a support bowler to more wicket-taking bowlers, but he seems to be to inconsistent for the role of a support bowler who applies pressure. If Gul can find his reverse-swinging yorkers again, then with Asif and Aamer opening the bowling, he can be the perfect thing for Pakistan as a first-change or a secong-change attacking bowler (with the old ball). But if he plays as a support bowler, then he gives away too many runs.

Javed,

I think it’s mostly the Moolah that all IPL players are worried about, a very less about the game, this was evident from the quality of their T20 game in Champions League. If you think about it there is no selection committee in IPL, players are bought primarily based on the impressions they have made in their national team or regional teams, but after they come over to IPL they don’t necessarily perform the same. Even when they do, it is because the overall standard is diluted. IPL is all about making money and power, and it is killing quality of Cricket in India, Cricket in India will go to money and power based setup and mush less about quality players and so on, there will always be a market for Indian players because of local interest and the restrictions on foreign players.

Regarding security of Pakistani players, even though nothing can be guaranteed, historically groups like Shiv Sena issues threats but seldom acts on it, in fact they have issued threats about not letting Pakistan team play in India before when they toured, but security was given to the players and it was ensured that nothing happened, but Hindu extremist groups have never done anything to foreign nationals. But of course things can change anytime, before the attack on Sri Lankan cricketers, it was still only a theory that someone could attack cricketers, no one really thought it will happen, and one day that happened. So, in that aspect, players and the respective authorities have to think about how to handle the situation. I am sure IPL bosses will provide security, but it is a question of whether Pakistan cricket board and government should let the players go, and of course for the players themselves to decide.

SL is grinding down Indian bowling on a pitch that offers very little. A double from Mahela, just showed the Indian batsmen how to bat on this kind of pitch, this is the sort of pitch that once you get in you don’t get out without making a huge impact. Indian batsmen except Rahul Dravid scored below par, even Dhoni and Youvraj, but then I said it after first day looking at how these two played the pitch looked like a sleeping beauty. Youvraj an Dhoni are not the type who can bat on a true Test pitch against true Test bowling attack. But credit to Sri Lankans on how they applied, especially Mahela, I knew he will go on big when I saw he was on 67 when I went to bed.

Mahela could even go on for a 300 tomorrow, he is that sort of player. India has their task cut out in second innings. Bat out long and bat big, a few quick wickets up front and they are staring down at going 1-0, but given then past in Test matches they should be able to bat out and save the game.

I don’t see how Test cricket can have any future if pitches like this are made. There should be criteria that if pitches do not offer anything to the bowlers then the curator will lose his job, otherwise they will keep creating pitches like this which is good only for batsmen to score centuries and double centuries and add to their record. What a shame.

As always an axcellent write up !! Tendulkur was a pure genius when it came to batting as Javed A Khan and Khansahab are at writing !!

Javed,

Asad Rauf is the ICC umpire from Pakistan, if I am not mistaken this fellow is Abdur Rauf, he took 4/43, but when looking up his profile it says he is 30 years of age. At first I thought this must be a young and promising bowler. Where was he all along, and why is he playing now?

Asif is past his prime, it seems like his outside field activities and his time spent in the wilderness has taken a toll on his game, he doesn’t look very much interested these days.

As for Kaneria, he used to be one of the most promising leggies and he seems to have losing his art too. Overall this is not a terrible bowling line up though, if these guys can get their act together and get some of their old days glory back. Batting will have to put up really good scores to win in NZ and bowlers need to put pressure.

NZ plays well at home, players like Jesse Ryder and Ross Taylor scored heavily against India last time, but India managed to win the series because they bowled better and batted better. They could have won 2-0 had not rain washed away half a day of play in the final day of 3rd test with NZ 8 down.

So NZ is somewhat beatable if Pakistan can put up a good batting show and follow up with bowling.

Australia is a different deal though. This Pakistan team looks like the Indian teams that visited Australia in the 90s, like lambs for slaughter. One thing of relief for them will be that Australia is struggling with injuries, so it’s questionable whether they can put up a decent squad together.

Good day for Pakistan today. Well bowled Talha.

I have mentioned this before but let me engrave it yet again. The logic has been furnished in one of the posts was so peculiar that I couldn’t stop laughing after reading it. Razor was a product of Bronze Age. In Middle East Bronze Age was from 1100 to 1800 BC.

The History shows that razor was being used frequently even before 800 BC to get rid of unwanted body hair. Muslims of early era had been using razors for the removal of underarms and other unwanted hair like any other common practice. On the occasion of first Hajj in Islam Prophet also shaved his head.
Hence it is very clear that Razor wasn’t new for the early Muslims or even for the Christians times which was 500 years before Muslim era. It is also clear that razor was also not tricky to use in such epoch.

In my early post I refused to comment any further just to stop folks chatting about religion without self-control. It has become a common practice among westernized liberal minded public to talk about Islam freely and ingenuously. I just wanted to avoid this situation but here we go again…
Broadly speaking, writers of any field should use careful approach as they are the ones who can change people’s thought with the power of media.
Let me explain what Sunnah is: Sunnah is not sitting on the camel and eating dates all day. Sunnah means ‘’ the way of life prescribed as normative in Islam, based on the teachings and practices of Muhammad (saw) and on exegesis of the Quran. Sunnah is not just the name of Prophet’s life style.
This is the predicament of the people who are well educated in modern sciences and also have immaculate command over grammatical field of foreign languages that are so confident that they would add their own information in anything in anywhere.

I am not concerned what people think of an individual cricketer or a group of them but my request is to refrain from commenting on Prophet or Islam anymore. How peculiar is that the writers are more careful writing about ‘’cricket gods’’ and how hasty they are writing about God’s Prophet.

In the end I would simply insert that this post was not to impair someone’s belief and I would expect the same as a result. If this topic is not finished here and if someone again took the mick out of it then I would rather avoid visiting this blog……. Regards

Javed

In my last post I never directed any of my sarcasm en route for you yet it always strikes you straight.

First of all, let me rectify it here….this is never happened that my comments would have ever been removed here from LS. I remember once I wrote some funny comments for everyone, one of them was for you too like: kay ‘’aap ke photo aisee hey jaisey kisi ney aap key saamney Choosa hoa Chonsa Mango rekh dia ho or aap keh rahey hey k yeh kia Ch2So4 hay’’ I checked few hours later and my posts were not on the website and It gave me impression that management has blocked it and that’s how I ended up saying why my comments were being blocked, but this never happened and I didn’t hurt anyone nor i said anything harsh. Those comments were for fun.

Grammar? I said it in common not as a taunt, as I consider you guys with very good English skills. I didn’t make a joke of anyone’s English and I would never do this to anyone. Kindly if you read it again I said ‘immaculate grammar skills’, which means perfect skills. so in terms of English I actually well-liked you guys. How come I can taunt you and can take this seriously?

I know that you were joking about Gillette razors but I don’t think Khansahab was. If you still have doubts you can read khansab post again. Javed I can make a distinction between humour and seriousness.

Regarding ‘’gods of cricket’’……If you analyze i said ‘writers’ in plural form how can it be directed towards you. I said this in general like all folks were so careful about cricket gods but…….in fact Javed this taunt was for Khansahab who gave ambiguous examples of Sunnah e.g. riding on the camel and eating dates all day etc.

Kindly ignore my grammar or spelling mistakes as I am typing from my mobile half asleep lying in my bed.

Javed I was just about to write Hazrat Javed Sahab and I stopped myself perhaps I would offend you again. I don’t know man now I am afraid to write anything here, yet I will reserve the writing rights to me other than thanks for reminding me my human right …… regards

……and one last thing man before i would pass out…. i said cricket gods…..if you check, this god is not with capital ‘G’ it completely changes the whole scenerio anyway take care Javed Bhai no hard feelings brav, chill man life is short and i am sleepy nitenite

tomorrow is my birthday happy birthday to me

Javed Khan,

This is why I think Murali doesn’t chuck:

[edit] Controversy of bowling action
[edit] First throwing citation and testing
Initial concerns as to whether Muralitharan’s action contravened the laws of the game by straightening his bowling arm during delivery broke into open controversy after Australian umpire Darrell Hair called a “no ball” for an illegal action seven times during the Boxing Day Test match in Melbourne, Australia, in 1995. Australian Sir Donald Bradman, universally regarded as the greatest batsman in history, was later quoted as saying it was the “worst example of umpiring that [he had] witnessed, and against everything the game stands for. Clearly Murali does not throw the ball”.[106][107]

Ten days later, on 5 January, 1996, Sri Lanka played the West Indies in the 7th ODI of the triangular World Series competition, in Brisbane. Umpire Ross Emerson officiating in his debut international match, no-balled Muralitharan three times in his first over, twice in his second and twice in his third. It was an identical tally to that called by Hair on Boxing Day and (like Hair) Emerson made his calls from the bowler’s end while his partner stood silent. The main difference was that several no-balls were for leg-breaks instead of the bowler’s normal off-breaks.

In February 1996, just before the world cup Muralitharan underwent biomechanical analysis at the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology under the supervision of Prof. Ravindra Goonetilleke, who declared his action legal in the conditions tested, citing a congenital defect in Muralitharan’s arm which makes him incapable of fully straightening it, but giving the appearance of fully straightening the arm. Although under the original Laws a bowler’s arm did not need to be fully straightened to be in breach of a legal delivery.[108][109] They concluded that his action created the ‘optical illusion of throwing’. Based on this evidence ICC gave clearance to Muralitharan to continue bowling.[10]

[edit] Second citation and testing
Doubts about Muralitharan’s action persisted however, on the 1998-99 tour to Australia he was once again called for throwing by Ross Emerson during a One Day International against England at the Adelaide Oval in Australia. The Sri Lankan team almost abandoned the match, but after instructions from the President of the Board of Control for Cricket in Sri Lanka, the game resumed.[110] The Sri Lankan captain at the time Arjuna Ranatunga, was later fined and given a suspended ban from the game as a result.[111] It later emerged that at the time of this match Emerson was on sick leave from his non-cricket job due to a stress-related illness and he stood down for the rest of the series.[112] Muralitharan was sent for further tests in Perth and England and was cleared again.[10] At no stage was Muralitharan requested to change or remodel his action, by the ICC. Up to this point in his career (1999) Muralitharan primarily bowled two types of deliveries, namely the off-break and the topspinner. He had not yet mastered the doosra.

[edit] Third citation and testing
Muralitharan continued bowling, taking his 500th Test wicket in the second Test against Australia in Kandy on 16 March 2004. At the end of the series his doosra delivery was officially called into question by match referee Chris Broad. At the University of Western Australia (Department of Human Movement and Exercise Science), three-dimensional kinematic measurements of Muttiah Muralitharan’s bowling arm were taken using an optical motion capture system while he bowled his doosra. Muralitharan’s mean elbow extension angle for the doosra delivery was 14°, which was subsequently reduced to a mean of 10.2° after remedial training at the University. The findings reported to ICC by the University of Western Australia’s study conducted by Elliott et al. (2004)[113] was that Muralitharan’s doosra contravened the established ICC elbow extension limit of 5° for spinners.[12][114][115].

Under the original throwing Laws of Cricket, the umpires officiating were under an obligation to call “no-ball” to a delivery that they were not entirely happy was absolutely fair. This Law gave the umpires absolutely no discretion. In 2000, the Laws were changed to put an allowable figure of straightening of 5° for spinners, 7.5° for medium pacers and 10° for fast bowlers in an attempt to more clearly define what was legal.[116] But these figures proved difficult to enforce due to umpires being unable to discern actual amounts of straightening and the differentiation between the three different allowable figures. Testing in Test Match conditions is not currently possible “when the identification of elbow and shoulder joint centres in on-field data collection, where a shirt is worn, also involves large errors. In a match the ability to differentiate anatomical movements such as ‘elbow extension’ by digitising segment end-points, particularly if you have segment rotations, is extremely difficult and prone to error[13]. This is certainly the case with spin bowlers. It is therefore not surprising that laboratory testing is preferred, particularly for spin bowlers, where an appropriate pitch length and run-up can be structured. This is clearly the only way to test players, where data would be able to withstand scientific and therefore legal scrutiny.”[115]

An extensive ICC study, the results of which were released in November 2004, was conducted to investigate the “chucking issue”. A laboratory kinematic analysis of 42 non-Test playing bowlers done by Ferdinands and Kersting (2004) established that the 5° limit for slow and spin bowlers was particularly impractical.[117]

Due to the overwhelming scientific findings, researchers recommended that a flat rate of 15° tolerable elbow extension be used to define a preliminary demarcation point between bowling and throwing. A panel of former Test players consisting of Aravinda de Silva, Angus Fraser, Michael Holding, Tony Lewis, Tim May and the ICC’s David Richardson, with the assistance of several biomechanical experts, stated that 99% of all bowlers in the history of cricket straighten their arms when bowling.[118]. Only one player tested (part-time bowler Ramnaresh Sarwan) reportedly did not transgress the pre 2000 rules.[118] Many of these reports have controversially not been published and as such, the 99% figure stated has yet to be proved. In fact, Muralitharan stirred up controversy when he said during an interview with a Melbourne radio station that Jason Gillespie, Glenn McGrath and Brett Lee flexed their arms by 12, 13 and 14-15 degrees respectively, although it is unclear as to where Muralitharan quoted these figures from. Muralitharan was censured by the Sri Lankan Cricket Board for these comments.[119]

The ICC Executive was asked to ratify the panel’s recommendations at the ICC’s Annual General Meeting in February 2005. Based on the recommendations the ICC issued a new guideline (which was effective from 1 March 2005) allowing for extensions or hyperextensions of up to 15 degrees for all types of bowlers, thus deeming Muralitharan’s doosra to be legal.[14][120]

Explaining why the maximum level of 15 degrees was arrived at, panel member Angus Fraser stated “That is the number which biomechanics says that it (straightening) becomes visible. It is difficult for the naked eye to see less than 15 degrees in a bowler’s action. We found when the biceps reached the shoulder the amount of bend was around 165 degrees. Very few bowlers can get to 180 degrees because the joint doesn’t allow that. …… but once you go further than 15 degrees you get into an area which is starting to give you an unfair advantage and you are breaking the law”.[120]

[edit] University of South Australia study
The original decision of disallowing the doosra bowling action was hailed widely as justifiable on account of being scientifically based. Hence, a team of Australian scientists [121] representing the University of South Australia conducted an independent research, in line with modern Artificial Intelligence and biomechanics in order to solve the controversial issue arise from doosra. The University of South Australia’s study, founded by Prof. Mahinda Pathegama, and contributed by Prof. Ozdemir Gol, Prof. J. Mazumdar, Prof. Tony Worsley and Prof. Lakmi Jain has analyzed the previous studies with close scrutiny since the techniques in their fields of expertise are employed in the course of assessment as the basis for decision-making. The findings based on this scientific study are overwhelming[121] and David Richardson, General Manager ICC stated that the ICC is currently reviewing the Law on throwing and the ICC regulations and the study done by Prof. Mahinda Pathegama with UniSA scientists [13] is a valuable source of information in this regard[122]. The team of Australian scientists including Sri Lankan-born Australian scientist, Prof. Mahinda Pathegama[121] reporting their findings, in line with the Muralitharan test to ICC, has analyzed in-depth various issues, such as Pitfalls in image interpretation when using 2D images for 3D modeling associates compared to the modern techniques in Artificial Intelligence and biomechanics, and Biomechanics assessment for doosra bowling action, etc. Pathegama at al. (2004) further reports on the Disagreement of expression on measurement accuracy in the Murali Report, with the analysis of the Motion tracking system used for the Murali Report, and discussing Cognitive aspects, Evidence of errors in Anthropometric assessment and movement tracking, Lateral inhibition in response tracking, Psycho-physiological aspect on post-assessments, Angular measurement errors, Skin marker induced errors, Geometrics- and physics-based 3D modeling and the Approach to on-field assessment, etc.

The Muralitharan Report produced by the University of Western Australia’s study has considered the Richard’s study[123] done in 1999 to evaluate the error margin. University of South Australia’s study done by Prof. Mahinda Pathegama[121] argued that the Richard’s study which was presented by the University of Western Australia’s study has used a rigid aluminium bar that only rotated in the horizontal plane to introduce such error margin. Pathegama’s report[13] stated that “in view of the system used in the test itself yielding considerable error even with a rigid aluminum bar (an accuracy level of approximately 4 degrees as stated in the Murali Report), it stands to reason that the error margin would be considerably larger when tracking skin markers on a spin bowler’s moving upper limb by this same system”.

[edit] Fourth round of testing
On 2 February 2006, Muralitharan underwent a fourth round of biomechanical testing. There had been criticism that the previous round of tests in July 2004 did not replicate match conditions due to a slower bowling speed in the laboratory tests. The results showed that the average elbow flexation while bowling the ‘doosra’ delivery was 12.2 degrees, at an average of 53.75 mph (86 km/h). The average for his off-break was 12.9 degrees at 59.03 mph (99.45 km/h).[124]

[edit] Bowling with an arm brace
In July 2004 Muralitharan was filmed in England, bowling with an arm brace on. The film was shown on Britain’s Channel 4 during the Test against England on 22 July 2004. The documentary is not available for purchase and has not been aired in Australia.

Initially, Muralitharan bowled three balls – the off-spinner, the top-spinner and the doosra – as he would in a match. Then he bowled the same three balls with a brace that is made from steel bars, which are set into strong resin. This brace has been moulded to his right arm, is approximately 46 centimetres long and weighs just under 1 kilogram.

TV presenter Mark Nicholas who tried the brace himself, confirmed that “There is no way an arm can be bent, or flexed, when it is in this brace.” All three balls reacted in the same way as when bowled without the brace. They were not bowled quite so fast because the weight of the brace restricts the speed of Muralitharan’s shoulder rotation, but the spin was still there.

With the brace on, there still appeared to be a jerk in his action. When studying the film at varying speeds, it still appeared as if he straightened his arm, even though the brace makes it impossible to do so. His unique shoulder rotation and amazing wrist action seem to create the illusion that he straightens his arm.[125]

The off-spinner said the exercise was to convince a sceptical public rather than sway an ICC investigation into bowling actions launched after he was reported by match referee Chris Broad for his doosra delivery in March 2004, the third time action has been taken on his bowling. In an interview for August 2004 edition of Wisden Asia Cricket, Muralitharan stated “I think it will prove a point to those who had said that it was physically impossible to bowl a ball that turned the other way. I proved that it was possible to bowl the doosra without bending the arm.”[126]

In 2004 at the R Premadasa Stadium in Colombo, Muralithan voluntarily performed a series of tests with live video cameras. Michael Slater and Ravi Shastri witnessed it all unfold. Muralitharan once again showed he could bowl all his deliveries including the doosra with an arm brace that prevents any straightening of his elbow. Orthopediatrician Dr Mandeep Dillon stated that Muralitharan’s unusual ability to generate extra movement both at the shoulder as well the wrist enables him to bowl the doosra without straightening the elbow.[127]

[edit] Critics and converts
Two vocal critics of Muralitharan’s action have been former Test cricketers, Australian Dean Jones and Bishan Bedi, the former Indian captain.

Michael Holding, the former West Indian fast bowler was also a critic of Muralitharan, but withdrew his criticisms under the light of the tests carried out. Holding had been quoted[128] as being in “110% agreement” with Bedi, who likened Murali’s action to a “javelin throw”[129] and more recently, compared to a “shot putter”.[130] Following the ICC study, as a member of the panel that conducted the study, Holding stated, “The scientific evidence is overwhelming… When bowlers who to the naked eye look to have pure actions are thoroughly analysed with the sophisticated technology now in place, they are likely to be shown as straightening their arm by 11 and in some cases 12 degrees. Under a strict interpretation of the Law, these players are breaking the rules. The game needs to deal with this reality and make its judgment as to how it accommodates this fact.”[131]

In May 2002, Adam Gilchrist, speaking at a Carlton (Australian) Football Club luncheon, claimed Muralitharan’s action does not comply with the Laws of cricket. The Melbourne-based Age newspaper quoted Gilchrist as saying.”Yeah, I think he does (chuck), and I say that because, if you read the Laws of the game, there’s no doubt in my mind that he and many others, throughout cricket history have.”[132] These comments were made before the doosra controversy, in spite of Muralitharan’s action having been cleared by ICC in both 1996 and 1999. For his comment Gilchrist was reprimanded by the Australian Cricket Board (ACB) and found guilty of being in breach of ACB rules concerned with “detrimental public comment”.[133]

During the 2006 tour of New Zealand another Muralitharan critic, former New Zealand captain and cricket commentator Martin Crowe called for Muralitharan’s doosra to be monitored more closely, asserting that his action seemed to deteriorate during a match.[134] Earlier that year when delivering the Cowdrey lecture at Lords Martin Crowe had demanded zero tolerance instead of 15 degrees for throwing and specifically branded Muttiah Muralitharan a chucker.[135][136] In response to Crowe’s criticism ICC general manager David Richardson stated that the scientific evidence presented by biomechanists Professor Bruce Elliot, Dr Paul Hurrion and Mr Marc Portuswith was overwhelming and clarified that “Some bowlers, even those not suspected of having flawed actions, were found likely to be straightening their arms by 11 or 12 degrees. And at the same time, some bowlers that may appear to be throwing may be hyper-extending or bowl with permanently bent elbows. Under a strict interpretation of the law, they were breaking the rules – but if we ruled out every bowler that did that then there would be no bowlers left.”[137]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muttiah_Muralitharan

Javed,

While anything is still possible in the test, more and more draw looks like the most probable outcome. HAPW Jawyawardane is also nearing a hundred now. Indian will fight tooth and nail, and whatever else in their body to draw this test, in NZ they were facing a mammoth total and had to bat out two days, everyone thought it would be impossible, but Gambhir batted for 10 hours, blocking mostly in the company of Dravid who is the WALL, and they batted out a whole day and then some more. I don’t see any crumbling in this pitch, unless it lands on this pitch from heavens on the 5th day magically. Stranger things have happened, but I am not holding my breath.

Javed Khan,

At least don’t say “What I see is what I believe”, we all believe a lot that we don’t see

Lets just say, “We see what what want to see and we believe what we want to believe, or “what we want to believe is what we want to see and that is what we see”

Anyway, its true in everyone’s case, though I think we ought to be pretty much certain to accuse someone. I don’t know whether Murali chucks or not, but what if he doesn’t? At the least it is not certain whether he chucks…and if he actually doesn’t, then the unfortunate person has been tested again and again for a decade, as though a machine being tested for its functionality repeatedly before being put to use. Besides that, the way he has been treated at certain places isn’t right, after all, even if he slightly chucks or completely chucks, he has just broken, intentionally or intentionally, a very weak rule of a game. It’s not some natural or self-evident rule, it is just a rule which you and I can decide and make a game out of… Besides that, I bet, like 10 economists, you can make 10 personell of the ICC sit in a room and ask each to define what is chucking, and no two would define it the same way. There isn’t really a definitiion, just some mutual, intuitive historicial understanding which never really was true at closer inspection. Imo what the ICC has done nows is right, rather than saying it is right because of so and so…what they have done is that, they have just tested enough players and found where the averages lie and picked a number, like 15 degrees flexion, just so that it includes most bowlers who somehow ended up sharing the same initial intuitive understanding…and just made this a rule, based on experience, rather than claim what is right or what isn’t. There is no supreme logic behind it, except that it works. And i think that is right.

At least Michael Holding changed his mind.

Javed

I wish i would be sleeping at this time but unfortunately i had just few hours to sleep and right now its 5:30 and i am sitting in the airport staff shuttle, just briefly……thanks Javed bhai for understanding, yaar aap sahih keh rahey hey i should address the person directly but yaar mujhey lagta hey k mey impolite ben jau gaa ager mey ney ‘YOU’ kaha to …..

Thanks Javed for mubarakbaad, yaar i am still under 35 so i can celebrate . When i woke up my wife was still fast asleep, i felt a bit jealous when i said my birthday is tomorrow it was already 12 past something so its still tomorrow on 20th.

Ok Javed bhai got to go, regards…

oh haa one last thing Javed bhai, i dont mind ager merey Varun waley comments censord ho gaye……cuz yaar basically he said nasty things about my charactar but i told him not to do it but still in the next post he wrote such thing then i couldnt control myself. but yeah i remember now my comments had been censored before… thanks for reminding…..have a good day

What should Be The Team For The First Test VS NZ?

——————————————————————————–
My preferred team would be :

Butt
Farhat
Alam
Yousuf
Malik
Iqbal
Akmal
Aamer
Gul
Ajmal
Asif

I’m missing Imran Nazir !

Analysis

Ajmal should be Pakistan’s premier spinner. He is attacking and always maintains pressure in the sense that he doesn’t leak runs easily and become predictable like Kaneria. Kaneria can produce some magical deliveries but doesn’t dominate and win enough matches. Actually most of his wickets come in vain circumstances. Ajmal will be threatening and economical.

Asif was a huge prospect when he emerged on the scene in 2005/06 and good to see him back with the red cherry despite what he’s done in the past. He can extract amazing seam deviation of the pitch and produce some astonishing deliveries bowling in that “corridor of uncertainty channel”.

But above all Pakistan must maintain the same opening pair for a sufficient period of time. Chopping and changing will never settle the players or team balance which is bound to result in inconsistency.

Javed,

What you are saying about the pitch sounds ominous for India, if the ball starts turning and if they place attacking fields and if they lose one or two quick wickets then they will be in trouble for sure. First thing to do it get the first session of the morning without losing any wicket or at the most just one wicket, if they lose more than one wicket in the 1st session then they are in trouble. Tendulkar is suspect early on in the innings and especially if he has to come in the 1st hour. It’s a good thing he chose nightwatchman to go for him, hopefully Mishra can play a few shots in the morning then it will be a bonus.

Credit should be given to Sri Lankan’s to turn the match around after losing the toss, and making India play under pressure on last day. Indians did not apply well, their poor attitude from ODIs continue. Dhoni does not seem to have any imagination left. But it may be unfair to criticize him yet, since they haven’t lost the match. Let’s see what happens tomorrow and the rest of the series.

Alam shows glimpse of class for painstaking Pakistan NZPA

A rising Pakistani batting star made his mark before next week’s test series against New Zealand in the tour opener at Queenstown today, but rival opener Craig Cumming’s hopes of a recall dimmed with a second failure for an Invitation 11.

Fawad Alam showed the right temperament and application to suggest he in already in nick for the first test starting at Dunedin’s University Oval on Tuesday.

Alam, who made 168 on debut against Sri Lanka in July, topscored with 77 on the second day of the three-day game as Pakistan overhauled the home side’s 234 by compiling 286 on a pitch that continues to encourage the quicks with bounce and carry.

Omer

Mohali is India’s only seaming track, and England and New Zealand of course feature seaming pitches:

Gutsy Gambhir holds India’s fortunes

Virender Sehwag’s frustrating dismissal had sent blood pressure levels soaring, the Sri Lankan spinners – backed by a huge first-innings lead – were enjoying bowling into the rough and extracting sizeable spin and, with more than 120 overs left in the game, India were deep in the rut. What eased the tension for Indian fans on a dismal day for them was the knowledge that Gautam Gambhir was still around.

On form, Gambhir is India’s most bankable batsman. Mohali against England and Napier and Wellington against New Zealand indicate a career path over the last 15 months in which his stature has grown manifold.

In Mohali last December, at 80 for 4 in the second innings, England had opened up a chink in the Indian batting but Gambhir dug deep to bury their hopes with a vigilant 97 in a 153-run partnership with Yuvraj Singh. The defining knock of his career arrived in Napier when he stuck around after India were forced to follow-on: his 137 lasted 72.2 overs and was spread over 10 hours and 43 minutes. He was not finished though, as he returned in the following Test to score another big century (167) and douse New Zealand’s hopes of securing a win.

Enough precedent, then, to indicate that Gambhir will be India’s biggest hope going into the final day in Ahmedabad. Though the pitch remains a batting wonder, the threat is three-fold. To begin with, the crucial first hour, then the looming threat of Muttiah Muralitharan and Rangana Herath and finally the reverse-swing factor – both Dammika Prasad and the left-armer Chanaka Welegedara are able to reach speeds of at least 140kph.

But Gambhir has grown into a seasoned combatant having slugged it out on various pitches at home and abroad. Today, he called on that experience as he compiled runs more by placing the ball into the gaps rather than charging after the bowlers. In the process, he also managed to clear the few cobwebs that had begun to creep into his batting in the last month.

After a bright start in the ODI series against Australia, including half-centuries in the first two games, Gambhir fell apart and came up with single-digit scores in the next three. Perhaps the pressure of scoring off every ball might have weighed on his mind. But today there was no such pressure even if Sehwag was galloping away at the other end in streaky fashion. In a way, conquering or ignoring the Sehwag factor has been Gambhir’s most important quest.

Both the Indian openers have been opening together for a long time and have their own distinctive games: Sehwag is instinctive, impulsive, and goes with the gut feeling. Gambhir is also aggressive and can charge the bowlers, but he possesses a more gritty and stubborn mindset. In each of the above mentioned knocks, it was his strength of mind as much as skill that thwarted his opponents. Gambhir’s stronger temperament, at the moment, is something his senior partner wouldn’t mind having. Sehwag is 32, has 15 hundreds (only three of them have resulted in Indian victories) but despite his stunning batsmanship, he can occasionally disappoint you with his shot selection.

The spinners failed to dissuade him despite having a close ring of fielders as they pitched into the rough. When Herath followed that approach, Gambhir nonchalantly stepped out to firmly push the ball between the cover and mid-off fielders for a sweetly timed four. With his composed stance, he waited for the ball rather than rushing into the shots, a tactic that helped him counter the fuller length and incoming deliveries from the fast bowlers.

India’s coach Gary Kirsten said he was happy with India’s final scoreline today though he would have preferred one wicket less. As for his strategy for tomorrow, Kirsten said the batsmen had nothing to fear on such a bland pitch. The key was focus. “We have to play risk-free cricket as much as possible and within each one’s gameplans. It is going to require someone to bat 70-80 overs tomorrow.”

Gambhir is the best man to accomplish that task. “We know what he is capable of and he has proved that…he and Rahul [Dravid] saved us the Test in Napier,” said Kirsten. His message was clear: play according to the situation. “The bottomline is we need to bat for 80% of the day. As long as the guys understand that and confront the situation and come up with a determined and concentrated effort we have the skill to see through the day.”

Khansahab

Ghambir is a good player, but after 25 matches, how can he be a great player. You keep on bringing this up, I thought we were over this once you realized that he has just played 26 matches.

To be honest an average of 60 should be thew new barometer for greatness, considering the amount of runs being made.

In fact if you look at players like Ponting, Jayawardena, Sanggkara, Mohd Yousof, Younis Khan, and so on….and if you find their career averages for the last 4 years (as 2000-2004/2005 period many great bowlers retired), you will find that the averages for these great players have been above 60 (I am just assuming this, but from what I have seen, it seems to me).

If not much changes in terms of bowling and pitches, I think 60 will be the new barometer.

Sachin and Lara stood out from the 90s because they averaged above 50 and most others didn’t. Nowadays, 50 is pretty common– imo 55 is comparable to 47-48 of the 90s. Sehwag stands out because of the pace at which he plays though.

Khansahab:

I have made some points, just look at them, perhaps you don’t account for quality (had Sehwag not made a 50 there, would Ghambir have made this 70?)

On the Quality of Runs and the Impact of Sehwag (and Ghambir’s shell without Sehwag on the other end!):

Gautam Ghambir:

Overall Average: 54.55

Matches 26

Runs: 2346

Countable innings: 43

Ghambir with Virender Sehwag:

Average: 59.82 runs: 2333 countable innings: 39

4 countable innings without Sehwag with 13 runs

Average: 13/4= 3.25

Indian team since 2000—
Matches: 101 Win: 38 lost: 27 Draw: 35 Win to Loss ratio: 1.4

Since 2000 with Sehwag:

Matches 69 Won: 25 lost: 16 Draw: 27 Win to Loss ratio: 1.56

Since 2000 without Sehwag
Matches 32 Won 13 lost 11 Draw: 8 Win to Loss ratio: 1.18

Since 1990 with Tendulkar:

Matches: 156 Won: 51 Lost: 43 Draw: 61 Win/Loss: 1.18

Matches since 1990 Without Tendulkar:

Matches: 14 Won: 5 Lost: 4 Draw: 5 Win/Loss: 1.25

Hence, with or without Tendulkar, the win/loss ratio has had no impact (in fact decreased with Tendulkar playing), but with Sehwag, Win/Loss ratio jumps from 1.18 to 1.56 with Sehwag, that is, an increase of 32 percent.

There is no point doing this for Ghambir as Sehwag has played almost all the matches that Ghambir has played, except in 4 countable innings, and without Sehwag, Ghambir’s average plummets to 3.33

It’s Lunch time now and Once again Gambhir is proving his class by holding onto his wicket and I hope after this match saving knock Omer might start to see him in some positive light. And also appreciate the way he’s following the THE WALL’s footsteps!

As I am preoccupied with the weddings in the family so I won’t be able to comment much in the coming 3 weeks but I would try to sneak in every now and then and keep a track of what’s happening on LS.

Hi Javed,

I am sure it was a typo cos Berlin Olympics took place in 1936 (not 1930).

I am sure newguy must be going through anxious moments right now and Shoaib is definitely snoring right now on his birthday!

I slept off soundly at 11 pm (US EST), same time as in Montreal, a bit early yesterday because there wasn’t much to follow in the match. I knew it will end up in a draw unless miracles happened, the pitch was good for landing a commercial airliner

Murali has lost his potency, he could not get anything in the absence of assistance from the pitch, and Gambhir / Tendulkar / Laxman were happy to block all the balls.

This is really poor advertisement for Test cricket, this test does nothing but add more to the record books for all the batsmen concerned.

Already followers in India has very minimal interest in Test cricket, in a recent survey most people prefer T20, and Tests like this will push this form over the edge if not bury it.

Like I said earlier, curator should be fired if there are no results, no one really cares anyway. India do not even have a test planned for next year, there will be plenty of IPL and Champions League T20s for sure, and the T20WC.

Omer

When did I say Gambhir has played 100 matches? I know very well how many matches he has played. I explained to you earlier (but you must have skim-read) that saying someone is “great” is slightly different to saying someone is “a great”. Sehwag has shown he is “a great” because of his match winning ability and triple centuries etc. And Gambhir has been a top batsman for India- he has helped India save and win matches. That article proves that. If Gambhir plays like this for another year I can assure you he will be considered “a great”, too.

I pasted that article for your attention because you said that Gambhir does not score on seaming tracks, which is obviously very wrong. And by the way I did not say in that comment that Gambhir is “a great”, I just pasted an article and pointed out to you that he has scored on seaming tracks. I don’t even think an average of 60 should be a new barometer for greatness- since when did averages mean much? I have told you so many times I don’t rate Gambhir highly for this average! In fact what he did today- helped India immensely to save this Test, is why I value him highly.

Omer

Do you think you can be held out to have performed an incredible analysis on Gambhir’s batting without Sehwag, if poor Gambhir HAS ONLY PLAYED 4 INNINGS WITHOUT SEHWAG?

4 innings is way too less, I mean 4 innings could simply explain the very understandable point that, if you’re used to opening with a certain partner 85% or 90% of the times, you will struggle to adapt if you are opening with a new partner. That is a very plausible explanation. It happens to all openers in all teams.

It’s like a drowning man will clutch a straw, and sometimes you get so passionate defending Lara and Sehwag, that it seems desperate. I am sorry to say this. I mean, come on you can’t base Gambhir’s performance without Sehwag on the basis of merely 4 innings.

Khansahab,

They are 4 innings all right, but I believe three matches . Ghambir overall has played 26 matches, so that is about 11-12 percent of his career. Not as less as you think, besides the average comes from 55-56 to 3!

I don’t consider this last match as “saved”. India could have lost the match themselves by playing carelessly, but this match ending as a drawn match would barely fit the idea of ’saving a match’. I was looking at the history of the pitch before the fifth day, and the median number of wickets to fall on the fifth day at the ground were about 2-3. This was a batting paradise, it wasn’t a pitch for test match cricket, it was a pitch to showcase what the pitches for test match cricket ought not to be like and how cricket might look like post-test match cricket.

Anyway, Ghambir made good use of the opportunity and for that he should be credited.

But, I wonder, if you saw Ghambir’s expression after making that 100. It is something that I would never associate with you, but, as Gallelio might have announced to the world that the world was a sphere and he might hold it with its fingers if he could find the center, it was as though Ghambir was announcing to the world that if the world were flat, he’d smack it to the heavens with his bat.

Varun,

How can you even compare Ghambir with Dravid…Ghambir has played 26 matches, Dravid has carried the Indian team on his shoulders for more than a decade.

Perhaps the Kanpur massacre has dented the psyche of some Indian cricket fans that they keep repeating the same old record like a HMV puppy and lamenting about his age.

I don’t know whether this is the case or some of these folks are simply making these comments to rile up Pakistan supporters, or may be they are just jealous of Afridi and wants to play down his achievements. To me it is silly, if a player is capable then give him his due, we all know what Afridi is capable of, but good thing for Indian fans he is not going to repeat it often because he tries to play like that every time and gets out.

This is very similar to the last ball six from Javed Miandad which dented the psyche of the Indian team and it took them 18 years to break that jinx and come out of their shell. I wonder how many more years they have to wait to forget about Afridi’s age?

This is an urban myth. I would disagree with Javed Khan on this one, Miandad’s six had a much more significant impact, it is not that it broke the confidence of Indian team for many years, rather it boosted the confidence of Pakistan players for many years to come, so much that they started believing anything is possible.

But I think the real reason Pakistan dominated India during that period is simply because they had a better team, their batsmen were more audacious, like they believed anything is possible, the real deal though was bowling. Prior to the ‘86 match in Sharjah, Pakistan and India had similar bowling attacks with the exception of Imran Khan, other bowlers were medium pacers like Mudassar Nassar and the spin bowling was not so great. Co-inciding with Miandad six, Pakistan had players like Wasim Akram, Salim Malik, Syed Anwar, and in another couple of years more people like Waqar Yunus, Mustaq Ahmad, Saqlain Mushtaq, Aaqib Javed, Shahid Afridi to name a few. This was the golden period of Pakistan cricket, late 80s through late 90s. After that it started deteriorating for Pakistan.

As for India, they had a decent team, but compared to the names I mentioned from the Pakistan side, they were never closer. But in 2000’s things changed, Pakistan started losing the above mentioned players, and India started gaining audacious players like Virendar Sehwag, MS Dhoni, Youvraj Singh, Irfan Pathan, Harbhajan Singh, Zaheer Kahn, and a little later players like Suresh Raina, Gautam Gambhir, etc.

Omer

I honestly don’t care about whether Gambhir is arrogant or not. I would rather see an arrogant Gambhir than an arrogant Akhtar. Gambhir is a good player and he gets the job done. Normally when people become like that, they lose form. If he loses form then I will criticise him, too.

Gambhir’s arrogance is not like Saeed Ajmal’s or Malik’s arrogance, which is more like a regional type arrogance, so it does not annoy me that much. It’s like people say Australians are arrogant, yes they are but they have ruled the cricket world for a long time.

Omer

So Gambhir did not save the match? He is an opener and he played the anchor role after Sehwag left, because if everyone had started playing like Sehwag, India could have been bundled out for less than 250.

A bowling side’s confidence is not only shattered when someone makes 30 in 20 balls you know, it is also shattered when a batsman refuses to get out after the bowlers have tried everything against him. In fact that shatters their confidence more, especially if the batsman goes on to make a century. I am using this 30 runs example because Sehwag made 30 in 21 balls recently and you jumped and commented that he shattered the opposition’s confidence and that is why India won or something like that.

Omer

Recently Michael Atherton said that saying Tendulkar is the best batsman is demeaning to other greats of the past who have scored all those runs without protective gear etc.

I totally accept this and in my view, this is a very valid and sensible comment. However, the same applies to Lara, Sehwag, and all the rest of the modern era.

In fact if some very passionate fan would say that Atherton is not making a sensible comment, I would criticise him.

Javed A Khan

What did Atherton say about Lara? He made no comment for or against Lara?

In fact saying that considering Tendulkar is the best is demeaning to other (previous) greats, is a somewhat negative statement against Tendulkar.

PCB has announced that the decision on Misbah will be made after the 1st Test.

Firstly, why do they need to make a decision on Misbah in the first place? Why bring back an average player to play Test cricket?

Secondly, this is a shameful decision for Fawad Alam and very unfair on Alam. That is because after performing with both bat and ball in the warm up, Alam is due to play in the 1st Test but if he fails, Misbah will play in his position, because Malik and Umer Akmal will not be dropped.

The PCB has played politics and done everything it can to try and get Fawad Alam out of the team.

Khansahab,

The match wasn’t saved, it could have been lost, but it wasn’t a match saved. That is not how I understand matches saved. A match is saved when the team with good probability is about to lose. This match, in almost certainty, was always headed towards a draw, I suppose u didnt see the match or the pitch.

BF, please change this pic of ures. It’s not for u!

“Omer

I honestly don’t care about whether Gambhir is arrogant or not. I would rather see an arrogant Gambhir than an arrogant Akhtar. Gambhir is a good player and he gets the job done. Normally when people become like that, they lose form. If he loses form then I will criticise him, too.

Gambhir’s arrogance is not like Saeed Ajmal’s or Malik’s arrogance, which is more like a regional type arrogance, so it does not annoy me that much. It’s like people say Australians are arrogant, yes they are but they have ruled the cricket world for a long time.”

I am in your agree, Australians were arrogant becaue they ruled world cricket for a long while and that is understandable. But, with Ghambir, arrogant all right, but on the basis of what?
I have shown you his statistics with or without Sehwag. Sher ke saath geedar reh kar apnay aap ko sher samajne lagta hai, lekin kia wo waaqi sher ban jaata hai?

Anyway, he has just played 26 matchs, but as is the case, you keep on referring to Ghambir, as though he is the only player in international cricket that you follow. What’s with this love affair…..rather than referring to Ghambir so often,it’d capture our imagination, if you referred to Monica Belluci as often…

Javed Khan,

Eventhough I said earlier that, to understand Tendulkar’s greatness, we should not reduce him to numbers, but see how many people he inspires in India and around the world… but, nevertheless, it occured to me, in terms of style of play, what you had mentioned about Tendulkar and the Don having different strike rates. It makes sense, for if two players have the same playing style, then their strike rate rather than averages are more likely to be the same. It is believed that the Don didn’t necessarily have a perfect technique and his instinct and hand-eye co-ordination were developed early in life, as it is noted,
“Bradman practised batting incessantly during his youth. He invented his own solo cricket game, using a cricket stump for a bat, and a golf ball.[11] A water tank, mounted on a curved brick stand, stood on a paved area behind the family home. When hit into the curved brick facing of the stand, the ball rebounded at high speed and varying angles—and Bradman would attempt to hit it again. This form of practice developed his timing and reactions to a high degree.[12] In more formal cricket, he hit his first century at the age of 12, playing for Bowral Public School against Mittagong High School.[13]”

On the other hand, Tendulkar is a great technician of the game. Meanwhile, the pace with which the Don played, scoring 300s within the first day, it seems to me that he played more with instinct rather than technique, whereas Tendulkar doesn’t have that sort of strike-rate to suggest he is an insinctual player.

In any case, the differences on the playing styles become much more apparent in this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Bradman

I cannot forget the WC 2003 match of India vs. Pakistan. That Sachin’s innings was once in a lifetime! He literally killed the Pakistani bowlers psyche. Although the Pakistan stalwarts like Wasim and co. were on the verge of retiring, but am sure that one innings from Sachin packed the bags of so many – Wasim, Waqar, Anwar, Latif, Taufeeq Umar and also rocketed Akhtar into oblivion. So I can understand the hatred against Tendulkar in general in Pakistan. That one six against Shoaib Akhtar over square was so stunning that it changed the whole course of the game. Sehwag at the other end was going all guns. When he got out, it was all Sachin. 274 to win was a decent target, in fact more than a decent target. But Tendulkar made it look like childs play. I remember the reaction that Akram gave after Razzaq dropped the catch of Tendulkar. It looked like he was saying “Tujhe pata hai tuney kiska catch drop kiya hai..” And Tendulkar didn’t even score a hundred! He was out on 98 poor chap. He deserved that hundred so much. Well, losing is one thing, but losing in a world cup against arch rivals that too because of one man is sure to rile up the public. I heard that the Pakistani players didn’t fly home directly, some went to Dubai and then came home..
Anwyays, I gotto go.
Will write later.

Omer

I am used to repeating information many times for you, because you have proven time and again you skim-read, so I guess it won’t hurt me repeating myself again:

Gambhir has been India’s most consistent batsmen over last 2 years
Gambhir was 2009’s ICC Test Player of the Year
Gambhir averages 72 away from home (whereas Sehwag averages 49 away) and both of them have been playing the same bowling attacks, which makes Gambhir a far superior batsman who bats like a “shair” and Sehwag appears to be a geedar when playing at home.

Have you heard of, “Apni galli mai kutta bhi shair”? I think at home Sehwag is a shair, and I think I can now see why

Oh and about the love thing, when I saw your unabated love for Sehwag in all these discussions, I thought I should fall in love too and experience the Deewangi

Monica Bellucci is still a sweetheart by the way.

Omer

I am surprised being a Mathematician you are asking me how Gambhir helped save the match for India.

India was 334 runs behind after SL made 760. There were reports of cracks in the pitch and many people were saying the SL spinners could get India out for less than 334. So when Gambhir made 114 as opener, he helped India surpass that lead of 334.

I can’t explain in simpler words, sorry.

Pawan

Firstly, “hatred” is a very strong word to use. Secondly, there was no change of opinion about Tendulkar as a result of that match. I did not watch that match but I am sure it must have been a very good innings. But, I believe he has played many more innings like that.

I don’t know why you think Pakistanis started hating Tendulkar after that particular match?

Khansahab,

Unfortunately, out of all the posts in which you reffered to me, only one line stood out, and I’ll dignify it further by repeating it: Monica Bellucci is still a sweetheart by the way.

Don’t you get tired writing about Ghambir?! (I agree with you he is a good player, but he has just played 26 matches)

Pawan,

In that innings Tendulkar threw the bat around and it came off. There wasn’t one dropped catch, there were 3!
Besides that, before that, Tendulkar hadn’t done much against Pakistan. For Pakistan, the wall was always been a great deterrent.

Anyway, India has been a good team since awhile, whereas Pakistan, after 2003, has become a worse team generally, not just against India. However, there is no psychological barrier as Pakistan has surpassed itself as a team against India, drawing a test series in India under Inzamam and then winning at home, after which losing 0-1 against India under Malik. Australia recently lost 0-2 in India and Malik’s Pakistan was the worst Pakistan team in 2 decades (as far back as I can see), and it too was able to draw two matches. So, I don’t think there is anything psychological as you might think….its just that India’s batting is too strong for Pakistan to get 20 wickets. The series they won was because of Asif going berserk in Karachi and Asif is the only bowler in the Pakistan side who stands out and can win a match against a strong batting line-up such as that of India. Mohammad Aamer is too young, we don’t know, and Gul is not as good a test bowler.

Javed A Khan

I honestly don’t understand what you are implying I am jealous of, and I also don’t understand why you think Atherton made any comment about Lara. It seems to be he only spoke about Tendulkar vs the past greats?

Javed A Khan

Thank you for clarifying, but I still don’t see the point of Atherton mentioning Lara. Tendulkar crossed 30000 runs in international cricket and Atherton was just responding to people saying that Tendulkar is the greatest player.

I mean, these days there has been a lot of media hype about Tendulkar because of that 175 in that ODI and now, crossing 30000 runs, which explains why Atherton would make a comment like that. How he can mention Lara, or Ponting etc, I just don’t know why he would mention them when talking about Tendulkar.

Pawan, Khansaheb, Javed:

Too much has been said about Tendulkar’s 98 against Pakistan in the 2003 WC league match, and overall about this match itself, recently Tendulkar himself said that it was probably one of his best matches.

To me this gives causes too much embarrassment to Indian cricket, to speak so much highly about a league match, notwithstanding the fact Pakistan vs. India is always a huge deal, to me is not focusing on the real achievements. How about not letting Australia score that 359 in the final, or may be chase it down after they did that? To me, this is the kind of achievement Tendulkar and India should be talking about. Not beating Pakistan in a league game. But this is how the thinking goes in the sub-continent. I remember the day I went to the Desi shop run by Pakistani to buy mutton, and the butcher who knows I am from India started asking, suna nahin aaj war hone wala hai, India aur Pakistan key beech”, he was so pumped up about this match and he was so confident his team was going to win, I did not go back to the shop to check how he was doing later, but anyway this is how the common man in sub-continent thinks, instead they should think about larger goals.

I don’t think Pakinstan supporters hate Tendulkar for this, sure there are hate mongers everywhere, some will always be so, but the true cricket lovers in Pakistan loves Tendulkar. And I believe it when Javed said Tendulkar and other Indian cricketers received a lot of affection in Pakistan when they toured in ‘04.

Besides hate is such a strong word, I would not use it in this context.

If you ask me, who was Mike Atherton?

A middle of the road English batsman and equally middle of the road English captain.

The English always have a hidden axe to grind. They started doing this when they first stepped off the boat into the sub-continent some 250 years ago.

When he says other greats, Atherton probably is referring to English players of yore like Jack Hobbs and Dennis Compton, who according to English are the equals of Don Bradman. There used to a time when English and Australia ruled the cricket world and the greats were either from England or Australia. Atherton is simply clutching to this old nostalgia that no one really cares for anymore, now that England is a team all and sundry could beat.

Newguy,

Autherton actually makes a good point. We’ve seen 10-15 years of cricket, and if the Australians are to be believed, theirs was the best bowler in history, ironically within this period (well, if they are to be believed, theirs was the best bowler in history, in every period!), and Indians would say Tendulkar is second to Bradman (or even above him).

But obviously we haven’t seen all the cricketers, so we don’t really know. We could say where a player stands among the ones we have seen though.

In any case, in terms of inspiration, Warne hasn’t probably insipred one bowler in the sense that there is no bowler who mimicks his action in international cricket or whose goal is to become like Warne. As for Tendulkar, clearly Mohammad Hafeez of Pakistan was inspired by him and he tried to bat like him, there is Sehwag, Rohit Sharma if I am correct, and many other players. But, someone who stands even more out, in this regard is Akram. There has been Pathan, Zaheer Khan, many other left-armers from India in between, Sohail Tanveer, now Mohammad Aamer, Mitchel Jhonson, and I was surprised to see, that Sri Lanka’s left-arm pace bowler ws also trying to copy Akram in both delivery of bowling and style. Did anyone notice that?

Javed Khan,

I think you are misinterpreting his statement, this is what he said (I agree with you, though, he could have mentioned Lara, too):

Sachin Tendulkar [ Images ] is a great batsman but to suggest he is the best ever is demeaning to those former greats who survived the bodyline series and stood at the crease without any modern-day safety gears, feels former England [ Images ] skipper Mike Atherton.

“To suggest that Tendulkar — or, indeed, any modern, armoured or, to use (Viv) Richards’s phrase, “pampered” player — is the best ever is demeaning to those former greats who stood at the crease in the knowledge that their next ball could be their last,” Artherton wrote in The Times.

Atherton feels modern-day protections have made life easier for current batsmen compared to those of the yesteryears and so it remains to be seen how Tendulkar’s career would have shaped up if these gears were not available.

“Images of Tendulkar have adorned newspapers and websites throughout the week. Images, mostly, of the ‘Little Master’ at the crease, compact and balanced. So compact and balanced, in fact, that Bradman said Tendulkar was the modern player whose method most closely resembled his own.

“There was, though, one crucial difference, which the image of Tendulkar on these pages on Monday highlighted. Perched on top of Tendulkar’s head … was a bright blue helmet and a grille to protect his features.

“Tendulkar was batting in a One-Day game, but had the image been of him batting in whites, there is a good chance that, along with a helmet, Tendulkar would have been wearing an arm guard and a chest guard, too. He is always amply protected,” he wrote.

“Which is not to say that Tendulkar lacks bravery. Indeed, he proved his ‘manhood’ in his first Test series when Waqar Younis [ Images ] bloodied his nose and Tendulkar refused treatment and carried on batting,” Atherton said.

“He wore a grille from then on, though, so that when James Anderson [ Images ] sent a ball crashing into it at Trent Bridge in July 2007, Tendulkar was able to shake his head and carry on as if he had been hit with a wet sponge,” he added.

Atherton believes Tendulkar would be inconvenienced if he steps on the field without a helmet.

“Tendulkar’s method suggests that he would be little inconvenienced by not wearing a helmet. He does not hook, nor does he plunge on to the front foot. And he watches the ball like a hawk.

“Nevertheless, would he have lasted as long, would he have scored as many runs, would that blow to his face by Anderson would not have affected his confidence in any way? We cannot know for sure.

“Bradman’s average plummeted in the Bodyline series, when the need for raw courage was added to the equation. A few modern players would suffer, too.

“The ball is no softer now and the bowlers no less quick, but standing at the crease knowing that you can be killed demands a different level of courage from the realisation that you might just get hurt,” he added.

Anyway, I was really surprised to see this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richie_Benaud’s_Greatest_XI

It is not the actual 11 that might raise eyebrows, but the shortlist as it is:

In the pace bowlers short list there is not a single Pakistani, West Indian, or Donald. Murali doesn’t make it to the shortlist of spinners. Miandad or Hanif Mohammad don’t make it to any shortlist either. Maybe the list isn’t intentionally biased, but unintentionally it could well be.

Omer,

No, I don’t think Mike Atherton makes any good points based on what you have posted (his words). He has singled out Tendulkar for wearing protective gear where as it applies to every batsman in his generation. Atherton says Tendulkar may not have played well without helmet, and what about the rest. This is so ridiculous, instead a better comparison would be about how batting has become easier with protective gear so the batsmen of modern era has benefited from it, hence comparison cannot be made to greats of other eras. But at the same time, when we do such as comparison we should also remember, batsman of older generation enjoyed not having video analysis and computer analysis done on them, Tendulkar is probably among the most studied batsman of his time by his opponents, if he has a problem then rest assured the computer experts would have found it. We don’t know if Viv Richards or Don Bradman had many problems since video and computer analysis were not available or not very much used (in case of Richards).

So, I find this comment rubbish. But sure, Atherton can say Tendulkar along with all modern day batsmen have enjoyed such things as protective gear, hence we cannot compare them with batsmen of older generation. While also taking into account things such as lack of computer analysis back then helping those batsmen.

Newguy,

Atherton isn’t saying one or the other is better, but whether they are comparable.

But, to say what might have happened, is still conjecture. Anyway, Tendulkar akin to Pele in soccer, and Lara to Maradona.. would the comparison hold?

Javed Khan

Actually it is true that there is no other equal to Bradman in cricket. When we discuss who is the greatest batsman, bowler, and the like, we just have to think of cricket without Bradman, or else there would be no argument. Despite the bodyline tactics, he was able to average 56.7 or whatever.

Usually in a sport, when it is played often enough, there are one or two people who statistically stand out. Bradman isn’t one of them. If you combine enough sports together which are played often enough, then there are one or two people who stastically stand out in all those sports combined, and Bradman is one of them.

Bradman’s achievements in cricket are akin to what Jehangir Khan’s were in squash.

But him aside, Australians tend to overate Warne and Dennis Lillee. Their performances in the toughest conditions, the subcontinent, leave a lot to be desired. Both shouldn’t be in the all time 11.

Javed Khan,

Add Inzamam to that list, he hit a guy in the crowd who called Inzi “aloo” and other such things.

BREAKING NEWS

Shahzaib Hasan Khan has given an interview recently and said that Younis Khan and Shahid Afridi are his biggest inspirations and it is because of them he was successful in the T20 World Cup.

2 dropped catches already, one by Farhat and the other by the matrix-sun-glasses Gul.

Welcome back to Pakistan in Test Cricket.

Go Greens !!

Pakistan, again, has made selection blunders and are paying the price. The logic of playing Ajmal over Kaneria on a pitch that takes bounce is something that can never strike the average cricket viewer, but the team management, as usual, thinks differently when something, really, doesn’t pass as a matter of interpretation. It would be understandable if Ajmal could spin the ball as much as Murali or some other spinners around, but Ajmal is more of a defensive spinner who relies on change of pace and cleverness to deceive the batsmen and not allow them scoring opportunities.. If Mohammad Yousof’s strategy was to bowl first after winning the toss, then why not play an attacking spiiner, considering that they’d be bowling in the 1st and 3rd innings, and not when the pitch is the most broken on the last day where an offspinner like Ajmal might be relatively more useful?

The second is the selection of Gul. Ask Gul to bowl on a dusbowl or a green pitch or a pitch with extraordinary bounce, he will run again and again to the crease with full force and heart, and do that only thing he does: Bowl short…He used to bowl differently when he used to bowl better, but now he doesn’t think about his game.

Playing Farhat has again proved a big liabilty so far, as he has dropped two catches I believe. But that is not something that the management can do anything about, we know who his father-in-law is…Malik, on the other hand, is the Don Bradman of Pakistan; to play him in the team, captains can be changed, he can replace the all rounders, and proper batsmen like Fawad Alam can’t step, or set foot, near the team. And, when one looks at his career, he is averaging in the mid-30s, 3 in NZ, 8 in Eng, and 15-16 in Australia. The Crown Jewel of Pakistan Cricket.

Anyway, Pakistan can well lose by an innings in this match, if Vettori and Mcullum can take them past 400.

Dear Mr Admani,

Lillie was an uncivilised crit ??? agreed. Hell , he was the guy who said “how–yooo-doin” to the Queen of England. But with all due respect, Akhtar is not in the same ball-park, statistics notwithsatnding.

Salman,

I didn’t say whether he was civilized or uncivilized or compared him to Akhter. I haven’t seen him bowl.

A bowler can be considered great if he wasn’t good in some part of the world or against some team, but can he be considered the greatest among the greats if he has a major blemish on flat pitches or against good batting attacks?

This is what I meant when I referred to Warne and Lillee.

The ultimate test of pace bowling are the flat pitches of the subcontinent, as the Indian team is for spin bowling. I was just saying whether they can be considered the greatest among the greats if they were so lacking in some parts of the world?
On the other hand, Mcgrath was good everywhere.

Javed Khan,

I would have preferred had Gul given away runs and made the batsman drive by pitching a bit fuller. In fact his maidens just reflect that, he didn’t pitch it full enough to induce the batsman into driving as often as he should have. That is why he was wicketless and when the ball got older, after having seen him thru with the new ball, the batsmen attacked him.

Two test matches involving Pakistan and India started yesterday and I thought there will be more posts on LS. Pakistan’s match is easier for me to follow here since it starts early, Pakistan had a dream start to their bowling but then gave away the advantage back once Asif/Aamer gave way to Gul & co, and the new ball lost it’s shine. But credit must be given to the way the opening bowlers performed, Asif on his comeback proved once again the kind of quality bowling he is capable of. NZ are well positioned, but in Test cricket the last four wickets can fall very cheaply, and if Asif/Aamer can get ball to swing in the morning which they should be able to then they can get NZ under 350. I would think 350 is still a good score, but you never know until Pakistan has batted.

We will know how this match is going to go by end of 2nd day’s play.

As for the India/SL match, another rest fest, and more better this time. A welcome century for Sehwag after a long period, although he was still contributing. Gambhir once again capitalized on this excellent form for another hundred and these two have put India in a good spot from where they should be able to control the match. But we will not know until SL has played their 1st innings.

Based on Day 1 it is hard to predict the test match will be a draw and the pitch is same like Ahmadabad. Curator said the pitch will offer runs on Day 1 & 2 but will start taking turn from Day 3, we will have to give him benefit of doubt. I am all for firing curator if match ends in a draw because it offered nothing to bowlers.

It does seem though there is turn in the pitch and it is slow. SL spinner were ineffective primarily because Sehwag did not allow then to settle into a rhythm, and secondarily because this is a Day 1 pitch.

As for scoring faster tomorrow, with Dravid and Tendulkar at crease I doubt they will keep the tempo set by Sehwag/Gambhir, Sehwag’s strike rate was 107 and he made 131 runs. Dravid is nearing a hundred, and Tendulkar almost surely will try to go for one and add to his collections. So don’t expect free scoring.

Sachin never helped Marathis – Shiv Sena.

Continuing its attack on Sachin Tendulkar, the Shiv Sena on Sunday said there was no instance of him helping any Marathi cricketer while Sunil Gavaskar was a “genuine Maharashtrian” and had given Test caps to many players from the state during his tenure as India captain.

In an article in party mouthpiece Saamna, Sena MP Sanjay Raut while comparing Tendulkar to Gavaskar, alleged, “There has been no instance of Sachin extending a helping hand to other Marathi cricketers. Forget others, he did not even support Vinod Kambli.”

“In contrast, Gavaskar when he captained India, had half the team drawn from Mumbai and Maharashtra. He gave Test caps to many Marathi players including Suru Naik and Zulphikar Parkar at least for one match,” he said, while also acknowledging Tendulkar’s greatness as a cricketer.

“In this context, Gavaskar is a genuine Maharashtrian and the whole country loves him even now in the same way,” the article claimed.>/b>

Thank God Sachin is not another Gavaskar who pushes his Mumbai/Marathi agenda. Gavaskar was self centered when he played and he is even more when he is commentating. His commentary is the most annoying to listen to, he is like an old uncle going rah rah blah blah and he has a terrible accent to boot. Hope Tendulkar when he retires will never step into the commentary box and end up like Gavaskar.

Wicket Descriptions on Day one in Pak Vs NZ Match:

Wicket 1= Aamer absolute beauty! First ball of the winter test season and right on the money.
Full, straight and a hint of inswing which too hot to handle for the left hander.

Wicket 2= Good delivery from Asif. First wicket in his comeback. Just holds its line against the lefty as he nicks it!

Wicket 3= Gr8 result for Aamer and good catch from Fawad. Banged in short and with intent as the batsmen fell in the trap.

Wicket 4= Cracking flight from Ajmal as he throws it up inviting the drive and gets the edge which is very well caught by Farhat in slip.

Wicket 5= Just nipped back a touch from Asif and results in the inside edge as he plays on.

Wicket 6= Another fine delivery from Asif but a lack of footwork from the batsmen as he gifts a second catch for Kamran Akmal behing the stumps.

Librhan report on Babri Masjid demolition is the rage in India now, Parliament has been rocked by the leaking of this report to media prior to it’s official release in Dec. The report widely criticizes BJP leaders for their involvement in the most darkest history of post independence India.

Once the report comes up BJP is guaranteed to be buried as a national party of any significance, like some of us have said here before BJP is already on the path to elimination and this will seal it.

Omer

Agree with you on the Farhat point- lousy batsman and pathetic fielder. He has dropped many catches in the past. I don’t care if he scores a few runs this Test series, he is a below average player.

Gambhir right up there with Gavaskar: Sehwag

‘Gambhir is one of the best openers after (Sunil) Gavaskar,’ he told reporters. ‘The way he is playing, he will become the next superstar of the Indian team,’ Sehwag told reporters.

This is terrible strategy from Yousuf, seamers were not able to get the breakthrough and he has now spread the field. He should have been attacking from the get go in the morning to get one of them out and then have a go at the tail. Commentary says for some strange reason seamers are not able to get any swing under overcast conditions. McCullum and Vettori are running away with the match, if they cross 400 it will cost Pakistan dearly.

Dravid always plays when it counts. This can be a very important innings in terms of setting up the match. If India make 700, then Sri Lanka will probably be playing on days 3,4, and 5….and by the looks of it, unlike the first match, there is something there for the spinners. If the pitch breaks, pace bowlers might come into play as well.

Sehwag played a fantastic innings. He set about to dominate spinners and tore their confidence apart. On paper Ghambir made more runs, but his innings wouldn’t be, if it weren’t for Sehwag. These are the finer points of the game which are realized at closer inspection. For instance, when a lead bowler like Mcgrath is bowling, Gellespie and others can also average about as low as Mcgrath. They are good bowlers, but within their roles as support bowlers. Once you take out the vital cog, Mcgrath, out of the attack, then the whole bowling sort of can fall apart, and the same bowlers tend to average a relatively higher. Because they are essentially good as support bowlers who take wickets by applying pressure.

In the same vein that is how I see Ghambir and Sehwag. This is the reason why I don’t value Ghambir’s averages and runs as much as Sehwag’s. There is a difference in quality, but also there is a strong probability that Ghambir will not be the same batsman minus Sehwag. He is more of a support batsman, not up there with the Dravids and Sehwags.

Javed Khan,

You mentioned that I will bring the statistics to corraborate on Dennis Lille’s performances. The one that I was trying to refer to was that, his average is 112 or so in Pakistan. Anyway, I know what you mean, these statistics can be boring.

If I were to say something interesting in the things that I actually learn, there’d be not much from the books themselves– besides, at times, I feel, after seeing some of the questions in these books, that you are probably as good as me in math.

Anyway, to share an interesting observation, I read that Goldman Sachs didn’t make a loss on a single day in trading last quarter. It was quite baffling to me and I wondered, where is the risk for the reward. After thinking about it I realized where some of these things in the books can be useful. In the sense that, if we were to think of a “good” trader that Goldman hires making a profit with probability 60 percent on a given day, then rather than hiring one trader to trade with capital X, they could hire many, many traders to divide the capital into so many pieces, so that, eventually making a loss is a near impossibility. This isn’t necessarily Mathematics, but it is mathematical way of thinking…but that is what they probably do, and that is how they almost always make a profit daily. Because the more traders you can get to trade with the same capital, the heavier the weight of that 60 percent, in the limit, gets. In fact if you cut the capital into smaller and smaller pieces, almost surely they will always make 60 percent profit daily, provided the initial assumption of a good trader with 60 percent likelihood is true.

Anyway, to end with something more interesting and very counter-intuitive– suppose I had 5 dollars and you had 15…and we’d toss an unfair coin, which would come heads with probability .6 and tails with .4….and if it come heads, i’d get your 1 dollar, and if it comes tails, you’d get mine 1 dollar….and we keep on tossing until you get to 20 or I get to 20 (that is, I lose 5 or you lose 15, one gets ruined and the other gets it all)..if we were to play this game, I have an 87 percent chance of winning all…and you have 13 percent! In other words, I start with 5 and you start with 15, and the difference of you winning a dollar to mine is only that of 60 40…

If this were 70 30 rathern than 60 40, I’d probably win all the money with more than 98-99 percent likelihood!

The Statistics that I post, is just averaging numbers…this above is the basic idea of what learn in Mathematics, the art of swindling through esoteric knoledge, only that it gets much more complicated, with stochastic differential equations or partial differential equations and complex spaces and subspaces and what not…anyway, think about it, how many Sindhi Waderas can be fooled by a game like above…all you have to do against them in exhange for their lands is to take 4 sides of the die to yourself, give them the remaining two sides, and even if they begin with 4,5 times the initial advantage, their lands are as good as yours

Javed Khan …

Yes the team seems yellow today, but we will have greener days ahead

Omer Admani …

I liked your comments selection of players and it seems most of your comments are becomming true.

BTW, why is Yousuf not bowling Malik/ Fawad ?? They can atleast provide break to our main bowlers if nothing else, plus there should be some variety.

Omer Admani,

Interesting math analogy on the GS trader scenario. But you should also consider that when you keep adding more traders then the probability of getting closer to the average also increases, because on every trade there are two sides, one win and one lose. For instance when you keep adding more traders and dividing the capital between more people then the probability of you getting the average of all traders increases. Your assumption though is that all traders at GS have a 60/40 chance, this cannot be true if they are all coming from the pool of available traders, some of them may have a 70/30 chance and some of them only 40/60, so on average they all should get down to 50/50, no? So, there is better chance of making more profits by hiring fewer traders with the hope that they are better skilled, but there is surer chance of a profit (but less) with hiring more traders.

I am no math guru, but I guess this is basic, what do you think?

Javed,

India played slow yesterday, and Tendulkar contributed to this, and the way he tried to speed the innings and got our after lunch, he must have received message during lunch to go for runs. He hit Mendis for a six and trying to get another got out. After that I though Youvraj played decent but still not near the first days place.

One reason is that the pitch has become slower and it is keeping low, not conductive for stroke play. Herath took five wickets and this is a warning sign. Harbhajan and Ojha should be able to get SL out tomorrow and make them bat again. Zaheer should also get wickets.

I don’t think this test will be a draw unlike the 1st one. The reason is the pitch has started to deteriorate and it will not allow stroke play during Day 3, 4, 5.

Indians have to bowl badly tomorrow otherwise, which I must say they are capable of, but let see how it goes, my gut feeling tell me though that this pitch will crumble.

Newguy,

When Goldman Sachs hires traders, it would probably hire people who are more likely to make money rather than lose it. Hence, I said 60 percent chance. Of course, the assumption is that, the traders are independent in the sense that they make strategies independently and there strategies aren’t correlated. Otherwise the above might not hold.

Having fewer and better skilled traders would mean the reverse in that, not necessarily they will not lose money every day….but as it is, GS didn’t lose money on a single day last quarter from trading.

In other words, if we are making bets from total capital X….and bets were such that, we had a 60 percent likelihood of making some amount and 40 percent of losing the same amount, the best strategy, to mximize the likelihood of not losing money would be to divide the bets into as many smaller pieces as possible (if betting on the 60 percent)…on the other hand, if we were betting on 40 percent, the best strategy would be to have one go, and bet X altogether in the same bet.

Javed,

Youvraj’s strike rate is not that great so I don’t know what you mean by he played decent?

His strike rate was 63, about the same as Dravid, only Gambhir and Sehwag did better, of course Sehwag strike rate was 107, but we cannot expect anyone else to keep up with that. Considering pitch slowed down on Day 2, it was not a bad rate.

There is no improvement in the Pakistan team despite the so called world class bowling attack of Asaf, Aamer and Gul. I don’t think Ajmal appears as a Test level spinner- especially if he is playing as the only specialist spinner. Kaneria should have been playing in his place.

Once again the captain and management will make the following excuse,

“We dominated for 2 sessions but then we could not keep momentum in the next few sessions”.

This is stupid, because you need to keep your focus for the whole match and be at your best every session. Credit goes to NZ and now it will be hard for Pakistan to win this match, unless a miracle happens.

Bowling wise there is no dearth of talent in Pakistan, but the bowlers need inspiring captaincy and good fielding to support them. It is the batting where there is lack of talent in people like Butt, Malik, Misbah etc.

Javed,

That’s what I say that at times when he does that, I fail to understand and ask myself, is this the same Tendulkar?

Tendulkar lives for hundreds these days. I see nothing wrong in that so long as it is not compromising the team position. But you are right, he wants to keep adding to his hundreds, he has become another Gavaskar. Team position was not compromised because 642 in under 2 days is still a very good score, that is more than 300 runs a day. Everything depends on bowlers now, looking at how Herath bowled, Indian spinners have no excuse.

LOL at Shoaib Malik.

The “senior” player running from the new ball has demoted himself to number 6 and he is asking the newcomers to bat before him. And, yet, he mantains his presence mostly off the pitch in NZ, he got out on 2. He doesn’t bowl and he doesn’t bat….for this Inzamam was criticizing Younis Khan, for not playing this player…in fact we criticize Inzamam for playing him and Rana and not building a team and leaving behind very mediocre players…Inzamam is the greatest destroyer of cricket in Pakistan.

Newguy,

The pitch didn’t get too slow and the ball didn’t suddenly start turning more than it was. It was just that the batsman changed, and that is what Sehwag can do. He was able to break the bowlers confidence…and the bowlers were only able to come back in the match and bowl there line and length and apply pressure when Tendulkar went in a shell…and thereafter India began collapsing as suddenly the bowl started doing things..this is the Sehwag effect. If you notice, Dravid was also calculatingly attacking bowlers not to let them settle. However, it began to gradually change as Tendulkar joined, there was no point playing for the averages there, he should have attacked, any time wasted is precious time in this test match.

On the other hand it “seems” Pakistan has finally, after years and years, unearthed a naturally talented player in Umar Akmal. I don’t say it because he has made a 50, but good bowlers and bowlers bowling well don’t trouble him that much, he looks good and comfortable all the time as opposed to edgy. He has got most shots and plays attacking cricket. And, along with Aamer, he is just 17.

Younis should replace Farhat and Alam should open, Afrdi should replace Malik, Kaneria should replace Ajmal, and someone should replace Gul (Sohail khan/ Akhter/someone other).

Javed Khan,

I agree Yousof is out of form, but he, unlike Malik, is the sort of player that in a period 6 months-12 months he can average in the 30s, and then when he gets in form again, like Dravid, next year average in the 70s, 80s. It is just a matter of him seeing the ball a better and he will come back with a double century.

On the other hand, Malik at his best can make a 50, 60, so these 2s hurt his averages in the medium-term a lot, as there is no period when he can “cover” for his best bad patch by having a purple patch.

Umar Akmal was on 87 and hit 464 of three (or four) bowls to bring his 100 up. In the next over he hit 3 consecutive fours. Vettori has used the leg theory to contain him, by boling way outside leg stump and having 7 fielders on the leg side. But he keeps on hitting fours and sixes nevertheless. It is a fantastic knock.

Javed,

India is bound to win the match. Proving me wrong that it is not going to be a draw. However, newguy’s theory is also wrong because the wicket is not favouring spinners but fast bowlers. Harbhajan in any match takes one or two wickets. But, it was Sreesanth who got most wickets.

It doesn’t matter who got the wicket, pitch is still slow, Sreesanth bowled his heart out and got the wickets, otherwise SL would still be at the end of their 1st innings at least instead of being 4 down in 2nd. Either way this pitch looked like it will have result, it was a good toss to win.

An excellent day for Test cricket yesterday all around. Pak / NZ match is alive, it is great to see a fightback from both Akmals. Terrific century on debut from Umar Akmal, especially after 5 down and looked like folding meekly. This is what Test cricket is all about. Already Intikhab Alam is praising him as a soon to be great and what not, I hope it does not get into his head, this is the problem with sub-continent. Pakistan should be able to save this test, and at the same time NZ has a chance too. I would not rule out Pakistan’s chance to win, with two days and the runs between team not so huge anything can happen, if they bowl out NZ for cheap in 2nd innings, it is tough but not impossible.

On the IPL participation of Pakistani players, this is all about money, and politics. This is how things work in Indo-Pak relations, one year has passed, both sides have done some dramas to appease the public, now things will start moving towards peace, train journeys, bus rides and what not fake dramas will be held, until something else happen, then again back to the drawing board. Meanwhile, players will participate in IPL and WC will go on with Pakistan players participating in matches in India (if they get to semis) so on. This has been the politics in the sub-continent for many years.

Javed Khan,

The return of Misbah is something that neither Yousod would propose (by himself alone) nor were the selectors keen on sending him. However, this is the work of the spirit of the team, sponsoring unity from the background, unbeknowned and unvisible to all of us, as spirits usually are. It is not unlikely that this spirit of unity of the team will take a human reincarnation soon if Inzamam becomes the coach (and the Imam).

His becoming coach would be a great set-back for cricket in Pakistan, since he will persist with the Maliks, Ranas, Misbahs for the next 3,4 years….after which he will be sacked. And, by that time, Younis Khan and Mohd Yousof will have retired, and thus Pakistan will find itself, suddenly, in a more dire situation than that after Inzamam left, as no proper batsmen or matchwinners will be left (at test level) and no new ones would have been initiated because of the pesence of the Ranas and Maliks. If he becomes the coach (about which thre is a lot of talk in Pakistan), then the scenario that Kamran Abbasi keeps on writing about, a total collapse of Pakistan cricket to Zimbabwe levels, is not too unlikely.

Eid mubarik to everyone here though its not the same, especially Eid ul Adha never be the same away from Pakistan. Anyway have a good one

The return of Misbah is a sad day in the history of Pakistan cricket and symbolises what is wrong with Pakistan, where merit is ignored in favour of politics.

Although people like Ijaz Butt are idiots, some of these decision makers are definitely wise enough to know who plays for the team, who plays for himself, who plays politics, who is ganging up against whom and who is settling scores with another.

Malik’s persistent flaws outweigh his merits, which can only impartially be identified as two:

1) His performance at no 3 in ODI’s under Inzamam, especially at such a time when Inzamam and Yousuf were not at their best

2) His ethnicity and his statement on national TV shortly after becoming captain that he has Punjabi blood running in his veins.

LOL @ Waqar Younas:

When Kamran Akmal hit a 4, this is what Waqar said,

“That was a definitely Kamran Akmal down the wicket”

HAHHAHAHAHAHA

Saeed Ajmal is bowling in this current Test, this is what Waqar says,

“We have not seen Umar Gul yet bowling those doosras”

This is like when Jayasuria became “Mohammad Jayasuria” and Sehwag became, “Virender Taibu”

LOL

LOL

What is Waqar trying to say here?

“Test match cricket is a all about playing a lot of cricket!”

WHAT!?

LOL LOL

Waqar about why IPL is in India:

“The idea is to have a cricket in India”

Hi Guys, Eid mubarik to everyone. I know it’s important to you, so I understand why no cricket for a day.

Pak has a chance if they bowl out NZ under 150, with just about 97 runs lead, they will need to get 4th innings around 250 to win, then they have a chance. This is what I meant earlier when I said they have a chance but tough. It’s not easy, they have to bowl their heart out and then bat too. Very very hard, but not impossible. As I write this NZ is 2 down for zero, so there is a start.

NZ has a chance to win and it’s better than Pakistan’s chance. They have to put around 200+ on board and with 1st innings lead, if they bowl well with around 300 runs on board they can win.

Rain is a probability, any more rains then chance of draw looms large. Or Pakistan could bat out 4th innings.

Fact is this match is not done and dusted, anything can still happen.

IND-SL is a formality, India should win, question is whether they will bat again or will SL fold today. Chances are they will fold today, with only two reputed batsman remaining.

Aus-WI is not of much interest, except if WI starts playing well.

Khansahab,

LOL at Waqar. He is a big supporter of Malik and yet he keeps on finding flaws in Fawad Alam’s technique. If Waqar was ever so stuck up on the technique issue, he could have concentrated on Malik since the past 5 years. Anyway, what Waqar says, and his reasoning, is so random that he usually has half a chance of being right if one possibility, in terms of what he is saying, is being wrong and the other is being right.

Imo the next post you write should be done on Gul, Farhat, and Malik. Kamran Abbasi did the famous post “Ruin of the Razzler” and after that, Razzaq was never in contention for the team (I don’t mean that he should play in tests). But, none of the established writers have so far written a post on Malik. Apart from Malik, if something like the “Ruin of the Gul” can also appear on cricifo, then we might start seeing Abdul Rauf or some other bowler in his place. He is only good for 20/20 cricket and if you analyze his career, he started ok…a lot was expected of him, but he never improved, always remained ok, and now he is getting steadily worse by the day. There is no improvement in his bowling…perhaps he needs a break from international cricket whereas Malik shouldn’t be in the test team regardless of what he accomplishes in domestic cricket.

Farhat again dropped a catch when they were on 8-2 (Taylor) and Pakistan are paying the price. This just shows the effects of nepotism in Pakistan cricket. But it also shows the lack of imagination in captaincy, that if you know that a player is such a big liability and he keeps on dropping catches in the slips, why not switch him to third man or somewhere else, so as to minimize the liability.

Javed Khan,

Farhat also dropped Bond just when he had come to crease, off Aamir. I think in this innings alone Farhat has dropped 2 or 3.

In the first innings Asif would have had 6 without the dropped catches, and in this innings, he would have had 6, too. Mohammad Aamer also has had at least 3 dropped catches in this match, 2 being in the second innings. In fact so many catches have been dropped that cricinfo doesn’t report any catches dropped and these are only the catches I have seen dropped (inevitably there would be others).

Yousof doesn’t learn. He should get Farhat out of the slip region and somewhere else, it is as though Farat has had siri payes for breakfast and is dozing off. Farhat doesn’t care, he is the Punjabi version of Akbar Bugti of the team…I remember how it works in Pakistan, if he is the Akber Bugti of the team because of his uncle, then everyone in the team looks upto him and he is like a godfather who can do anything on the field, even waste a review while batting because he wants to even though he is out plumb lbw. This is how it works in Pakistan, Farhat probably keeps on bragging to the players in the team about his father-in-law and everyone else (and tells everyone to f off, he will do as he pleases), and everyone else, including older people like Inthikab Alam, look upto him and hang around this influential personality, as though children awed in admiration of a very imaginative fairytale…

Like I said Pakistan has a chance if they bowl out NZ under 150, they have nearly done that, just two more to get, and then they are looking at around 250-260 runs with almost 3 sessions to play. Definitely gettable. Match is still evenly poised.

India as expected won by a huge margin, it’s on to Mumbai for Sri Lankans now hoping to level the series.

Javed Khan,

But, Pakistan’s chances are only good on paper. They were 85 for 5 in the first innings, and do you think Umar Akmal will score another century?

I didn’t say it was easy, first they have to get the remaining 2 wickets cheaply, then the top order has to fire. At least three or four from the top should get a half century, rest can chip in. It will have to be team effort. Given NZ is 8 down for 137 I don’t think it will be easy to bat last.

But Pakistan has done well so far given they are in alien conditions with new captain, so on. If they show fighting qualities then can win. NZ will fight hard though, Bond & Co. will make whatever run they have to get difficult. I’d say NZ 60% chance of win Pakistan 40% chance of win and Draw 50/50 chance due to rain.

Newguy,

What you have written above, is something that Mathematicians do all the time and get away with it.

If NZ wins, you can always say that you were right and you said there is a 60 percent chance that NZ would win. If Pakistan win, then obviously you can say, you said so, that if they are chasing around 250, there is a 40 percent chance that they would win. And, if it a draw, then you also have put it somewhere in between, so you said so

Once I was watching the weather channel and the person said, there is a 50 percent chance that it will rain and there is a 50 percent chance that it will not rain. Hence, whether it rained or not, he was obviously right.

In fact rather than 60 40, if you want to always be right, you can use 50 percent for each. This way you can get all the predictions right. In fact what I do is that, in one post I take one position, and in another post I take the second position, and whichever way the result turns out, I can refer back to one of those posts

If Pakistan chase around 250 and they play fearless cricket, they will almost certainly win. If its around 290, 300, they will almost certainly lose, because they will go in their shell and panic.

Regardless of whether Pakistan win or not, this has been an excellent fight back and a very good test match. The pitch was an ideal one as it has supported the bowlers when they have applied themselves, and not been a hinderance to batsman “which have played attacking cricket”. In that sense, Pakistan should realize where the percentages lie, that if they attack rather than go in a shell, then they stand the best chance of winning.

How good is Gambhir?

Harsha Bhogle

Virender Sehwag thinks Gautam Gambhir is the best Indian opener since Sunil Gavaskar. He’s wrong, but in a rather pleasant kind of way, because it is not the subject of the statement but its maker who is the current holder of that honour. Sadly, it is not a particularly long list of players who qualify, and really, only Navjot Sidhu and Ravi Shastri can lay claim to the title. Both endured good patches and bad and so a fair assessment should only come after Gambhir has played about 50 matches, but if he continues in the form he is in, or even in relative proximity of it, he should prove Sehwag right. Between them they should be disappointed if they don’t emerge as India’s finest opening pair ever. The current incumbents are Gavaskar and Chetan Chauhan, a terrific combination, but these two should bat together for much longer.

Gambhir is in the form of his life, 27 Tests having produced eight centuries. It’s the kind of start Andrew Strauss had, and indeed, for someone who goes through form swings Strauss has an extraordinary conversion rate of a century every 3.7 Tests (which is identical to Sachin Tendulkar’s conversion)! Gambhir currently scores a century every 3.4 Tests and averages almost 57. But it is in the last 16 months, really, that his career has taken off. In 25 innings he has seven centuries and seven half-centuries for an average of 77, and just as strikingly, has only one single-digit score. Followers of Test cricket, and they are still a pretty substantial number, will rub their hands in glee at figures like those.

And yet Gambhir is not one steeped in orthodoxy, or indeed limited by the format he currently excels in. An outstanding CB Series campaign in Australia last year marked him out as someone special, and I have little doubt that if there were to be an IPL auction today, he would be on top of everybody’s shortlist. To that extent he is like the good old music director in the movies: not quite the classicist but equally at home with the raga and the remix, the folk song and the peppy dance number. And that is where he is creating a large gap between himself and other new-age cricketers like Rohit Sharma and Suresh Raina, whose infatuation with the short game is limiting their progress in other forms.

I believe, and this is open to debate, that he is one of three finest young batsmen in world cricket, sandwiched for seniority between two South Africans, AB de Villiers and JP Duminy. De Villiers, in the middle of a pretty decent patch himself, and equally good in each of the three forms, averages 44 from 52 Tests, a number that is bound to go up, and Duminy oozes enough class to suggest that he would be a safe stock to invest in even if he is only six Test matches old.

So what could come in the way of Gambhir? For a start, we don’t know how good he can be in Australia and South Africa in Test cricket, two places where India have traditionally struggled. Of his 27 Tests, 17 have been played in India and the rest spread between Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Zimbabwe and New Zealand. You could say he hasn’t really been tested by pace and bounce, but you cannot pass an exam unless you have appeared for it. He has 12 months to prepare; indeed, the tour of South Africa will mark the start of a really stern examination for India, with a World Cup at home and away tours of England and Australia. He will be nudging 30 then, no longer able to slip into the “young” category, and that patch could well determine whether he has it in him to enter the portals of the greats.

Sadly, it is unlikely his record will have progressed greatly till then because India are currently a bit allergic to playing Test cricket. When you are in the kind of form Gambhir is in, you want to play as much as possible, and with just three more Tests in the next 10 months, it is a pretty meagre diet he is on. It doesn’t help either that India are producing the kind of pitches that can only drive people away from Test cricket. I fear therefore that Gambhir might well be the last major Indian player whose career could be assessed by a Test record. Now that’s something to think about.

Javed Khan,

I have also heard about the box, apparently it is pretty cheap, and all the cricket matches can be viewed on tv. I know many restaurants in the area have that and the quality is pretty decent. Once in awhile, though, because it is connected through internet, it tends to not work for a few seconds, but generally it does work.

Generally I watch the matches online on sopcast links which have very good quality, however the Pak/NZ match, unlike the india/Sri one, dooesn’t have any sopcast links.

Therefore, I have been watching on cricweb. com (or webcric. com), the quality isn’t as great as it could be, but it is all right. Besides that, I don’t watch the wole matches, I generally just listen to commentary while I am studying, so it works for me. I don’t know if you will be able to keep up with the average quality though, since…apparently they show all the matches on tv in Canada (the regular dish), and you can’t compare the net with tv.

Khansahab,

If you read through the post again, Harsha Bhosle himself hints that Ghambir is a flat-track bully and feeds on lesser bowling.

Anyway, he is a good player and will be just that. I just don’t see how he is great material.

Omer

He actually hints that Gambhir needs to be assessed on non flat tracks first. He has played the vast majority of his Tests in India, but he averages 89 in New Zealand whereas Sehwag averages a mere 20. Pity.

Khansahab,

When he played in NZ, the tracks weren’t balanced as they are now. They were very, very flat tracks, not much different from India.

So far, he has just shown how good he is against mediocre bowling and flat tracks. Unfortunately, that alone doesn’t make a batsman great, sterner tests will come and time will tell. Having Tendulkar, Sehwag, Dravid, Laxman, and others in the side helps too. In a few years, this middle order comprised on Tendulkar, Laxman, and Dravid will have retired, and we will get a better indication of whether he is a support player or a genuine player unto himself like Dravid and Sehwag are.

Anyway, I am seriously tired of your insistenct to discuss Ghambir.

If you were to discuss Mohammad Aamer’s amazing spell reminiscent of Wasim Akram in which he went wicketless but the batsmen were shaking their heads wondering what was happening (just look at Elliot in awe shaking his head during that period!), then we can have a much more “exciting” discussion. He went wicketless, but it was, by far, the best spell I have seen by a Pakistani bowler in years. The balls were too good to take the edge, and when they did, the fielders dropped the catches.

Khansahab,

Entertain yourself with a Pakistani player producing sheer “brilliance”:
http://cricket-online.tv/pakistan-vs-new-zealand-day-4-highlights-1st-test-dunedin/

Omer/Javed,

Arre yaar forget who said what, I am not so much of a I told you so guy anyway, but I am talking in general about the probabilities in this match, all outcomes are still possible on the 5th morning and that is wonderful. Now, if the match is to have a result, NZ innings should end pretty soon, if they go beyond 1 hour in the morning then the positive match result will start disappearing.

About the box, Jadoo, I never heard of it, but I know some of the Desi restaurants in my area has a way of telecasting matches and I don’t think it through dish, I watch the sopcast like Omer does.

Khansahab,

Go to the fourth video in the highlights and watch 4th and 5th. Amazing reverse-swing bowling.

Javed Khan,

I have noticed this one thing with Pakistan Cricket and it is that, when they get 4,5 very good players, matchwinners, they tend to stop looking and throw in 5,6 mediocre ones for an elongated period. On the other hand, NZ probably has only one matchwinner in Bond, but they play 10 other players who aren’t mediocre but contribute in their own ways.

Having Malik, Gul, and Ajmal in the test team is really killing test cricket in Pakistan. They are more able one day players, but at test level they are nothing players.

The Imran Farhat experiment has failed. Pakistan top-order collapses mean they are always on the backfoot.

Pakistan cricket has tried to find these specialist openers for the last 5 years. It hasn’t worked.

A fresh strategy is needed here. Pakistan should look to open with Akmal and Fawad Alam. If Younis Khan can be couretous enough to join the team for the sake of Pakistan cricket, it will be good, too. But, above all, this would allow depth in the middle order if someone like Asim Kamal can join the team along with Younis.

That way, with a more solidified batting order, Pakistan can easily play Afridi in place of Malik, and Abdul Rauf/Akhter in place of Gul.

With Afridi as a defensive spinner, Kaneria can play as an attacking one in place of Ajmal. If it is not Kaneria’s day, Afridi will prove vital in hedging the risk. If Kaneria has a good day, he will win the match. Ajmal will do neither but in test cricket Pakistan has the luxury to play four bowlers that are matchwinning.

If Pakistan makes these changes, only then can it be a consistent test team.

Relying on 4 matchwinners and throwing in 6 mediocre players can win one days, but not test matches.

Omer

Don’t you realise that Sehwag has been playing on the same pitches as Gambhir for most of his career? I don’t understand how you can applaud Dravid and Sehwag for scoring on these pitches, but when Gambhir or Tendulkar do the same, you say that they were flat tracks.

Your problem is that you have one set of favourite players and you will use whatever argument to support them or hold them out as better than others- unfortunately to a neutral mind, that is called “bias” and “nonsense”.

90% or more of the world’s pitches are flat to some degree or the other- it is a means of seeing more boundaries and sixes because that is what the crowd wants to see. Sehwag’s best performances have come in India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka and he has feasted on mediocre bowling on flat tracks, too. His good knocks against Pakistan have come when people like Akhtar, Sami, Razzaq etc could not ball straight to him and most of the boundaries were easy pickings.

I never said Gambhir is a legend, or “a great” in the sense of how we speak about Dravid & Co. But, he is a great talent and the signs are definitely there. Whether you like it or not, he is scoring more than Sehwag, gaining more popularity than Sehwag and if form permits soon he will be considered a better player than Sehwag.

Terrible loss for Pakistan at the hands of NZ. Shoaib Malik with his 32 did not help, same mediocre performance. Fawad Alam needs to open but his Test career may already be over, if Misbah takes his place in the 2nd match.

The first person to go must be Malik. Malik and Farhat must not be in the team.

The way Pakistan lost this was pathetic considering that NZ is amongst the lowest ranking teams with only 2 world class players- Vettori as an all rounder and of course, Bond. What do you expect from Pakistan when Malik, Farhat, Manzoor are in the team and Yousuf is out of form?

Umer Akmal played magnificently, he is the one of the best young players in the world.

Omer

I saw that, Aamer was splendid. The kid has great talent.

I was reading on the internet, someone is comparing Umer Akmal with Tendulkar.

It is too premature, Akmal is fantastic, an absolutely superb young cricketer but it is way too early to compare him with Tendulkar. Tendulkar has created magic, done the impossible, played special and extraordinary shots and Akmal is yet to achieve all that.

But the kid is amazing, and all the best to him.

For God’s sake, nobody should say Umar Akmal is Tendulkar. It is, firstly, premature, and, secondly, if he is, then we better make him open and turn him into a Sehwag. If he is going to play for records for the rest of his life, I would rather they give him the axe. Umar Akmal, no matter how good he is or whether even he is actually “near that standard” should play for the team and aggressive innings. I didn’t see the purpose of him defending too much. It was a good innings, but the first one was a lot better.

If Umar Akmal had attacked while Yousof was holding an end, then we could have seen a different result. Every time the team went thru a ultra-defensive phase, a flurry of wickets followed. If one notices the openers, they played out many consecutive maidens, and got out. When Umar Akmal and Kamran Akmal went beinf defensive, another collapse ensued. Kamran Akmal switched between wreckless and subdued at times, he doesn’t know the middle line between attack and defense, he either gets totally premeditated or he doesn’t know what to do. Umar Akmal seems like a complete player but they weren’t letting him play his natural game and advising too much.

The less said about Malik the better, his catch was dropped, not for a moment was he comfortable, edging it and knicking it….the quality of bowling, apart from Bond, was standard, nothing compared to Aamer and Asif. In fact if A and A were bowling to our batsmen, they would have been booked under 100, such were they lacking in skill minus Umar Akmal.

Omer

If Malik is not dropped for the 2nd Test, what will your reasoning be for this?

I couldn’t believe Pakistan lost the test when I woke up this morning. When I went to sleep things were going smoothly with both Umar Akmal and Malik playing comfortably, bowling wasn’t threatening, and Pakistan needed 90 runs to win with 7 wickets in hand. I was very sure between Umar, Malik, and Kamran they had the batting to see through a fantastic victory.

I thought it was perfect setup, like I said even before NZ played their 2nd innings limit the target to 250 then 3 top order batmen bat well. They ended up losing the match from winning position. The senior batsmen is to blame, it should have never come down to Kamran Akmal and Umar Gul in the first place. Forget openers falling cheap, Yousuf and Malik are to blame, if both of them scored another 20-30 runs then the scenario I said would have come true, three fifties and some contribution from others. Both Yousuf and Malik got out with 40 and 30 and this is showing lack of application from senior batsmen especially when you are looking at golden opportunity to win the Test.

Umar Akmal played brilliant, to score 200 plus runs on debut on a sporting wicket on first tour abroad is no mean feat. He should not let whatever people are saying go to his head though. Comparisons with Tendulkar and others should be left off. Between him and Aamer, Pakistan has found two match winners at the test level. This is remarkable given everything going on in the country and the politics of cricket administration. Raw talent still exists in Pakistan, which has always been Pakistan’s strength.

Khansahab,

I don’t know to be honest. But if I were to guess, then it is because all the many Pakistani commentators, the older players, tend to appreciate his style of play. Something about his batting makes them feel he is mature.

Javed Khan,

Since you have seen the match, you would have noticed, in the first innings and the second, the whole team was advising Umar Akmal on how to bat, ironically, when he was playing way better than anyone else. Actually, the first innings was precisely really good because of this, that whatever the advise, he didn’t seem to heed it. If his natural style of play is aggressive, there is no need to tamper with it and advise him too much on how to play. Advise would be useful if a player isn’t playing well, so rather than 11 players advising him, they could have advised Malik and Umar Gul going thru a lean patch.

Osman Samiuddin has written an article on cricinfo, in which he has alluded to Umar Akmal bringing forth the Mumbai style of play. However, if we notice, where Gavaskar and Tendulkar were so caught up in technique… at least the latter wasn’t able to win many matches from what I have seen. Umar Akmal has technique but his batsmanship is better because he doesn’t feel bounded by his technique. The 2 fours and one six he hit to bring his century up in the first innings, 2 of those shots were what we call total lappas…the point is not that they weren’t technically sound, but that he was able to hit them regardless and throw his technique aside in that moment.

The point that I am making is that, Umar Akmal’s style of play is more reminiscent of Punjabi batsmen from India. I don’t imply the technique which he uses when the going gets rough, but his mental approach. And, if we look at it, it is the Punjabi batsmen in India which have brought a lot of self-belief to the team and it is only because of them that the Indian team wins consistently now (it used to be only Laxman and Dravid because of which they’d win before). And, I don’t mean Punjabi here, in an ethnic or racial sense, I am just saying the mental attacking approach that they bring to play and their style of play (in the Indian team) is much more useful in winning matches. I rest my case here with citing Sehwag’s recent innings against Sri Lanka. It was when he was attacking, anyone should see the highlights, and see the looks on the faces of the Sri Lankan bowlers and the team. It matters less that Sri Lanka lost the match two days later, they were mentally reduced to losing in the first session or two.

And, Dhoni, Sehwag, Youvraj, and others which bring the attacking style of play, some less effecient than others, have changed the landscape of Indian cricket. Their success in the last 5 years reflects that of the almost recent invincibility of the Indian team, that they simply attack bowlers of the opposition in test matches and break the team psychologically and physically.

For me Umar Akmal belongs more to this mind-set which is attacking– if he plays naturally. That he has a very sound technique will help in difficult situations, too, but rather than comparing him to Tendulkar, we’d much rather watch him bat naturally, free of advise, and see how it goes for awhile. If it doesn’t work out, then obviously anyone can go and adviise and ask him to play defensively, but I’d much rather see an Umar Akmal who wins matches for Pakistan rather than a on who achieve great numbers and watch the whole of Pakistan just watching him achieving those numbers in excitement rather than seeing Pakistan winning. Anyway, it is still too early, but they should not advise him too much and allow him to play his natural game.

Most of the comments on LS are so predictable …

1 – Nobody praised much Mohammed Asif, although, he was playing Test after a long time but was our best bowler with total of 8 wickets (Shane Bond also took 4 wickets in each innings.

2 – Lot of blame for Shoaib Malik (I agree he was bad), but not the worst.

3 – No one openly wanted to criticise Fawad Alam.

** Oopps …

Shane Bond also took 8 (5 & 3), while (4 wickets in each innings were for Asif).

Munir sahab

Why should we openly criticise Fawad Alam, when he is only a newbie in the team? Don’t you criticise your senior players more?

We have not criticised Manzoor, Yousuf and Farhat that strongly too. Fawad has to his credit that he has scored a big century on a seaming track. And we have praised Umer Akmal and given him his due. Yousuf is a senior player, but not criticised that strongly because he is a proper batsman and the best batsman in the team, not a third class club level player like Malik. So when Yousuf does not perform, you say he is “out of form” and you complain about his form and application, but you don’t hate him strongly and you don’t suggest he should be sacked from the team, because he is a good player. But Malik should NOT be there in the first place.

I don’t know why you see things in a Fawad Alam vs Shoaib Malik way. Malik is a senior player who has never played an innings of significance in Test cricket. The whole Malik bashing is because he is not a Test player, and he is undroppable from the squad. That is the whole point of this criticism. I don’t know why you can’t see things this way. This guy has been supported by politics for many years now whereas he should never have played Test cricket.

Khan Sahab …

I agree with most of what you have said about Malik, but I would blame a few others too. Yousuf for sure, as he should have played with more maturity instead of hitting 7 boundries and a six in his 41 runs. There was enough time and no need for any urgency, all they needed was to stay in there and the runs would have come.

Secondly, you have said so often that playing in National team and that too at Test level is no place to come and learn and gain expereince. So what is this ‘newbie’ thing about Fawad ? If Umer Akmal could play, so could have anyone, if they wanted to show more comittment.

Further why should we not blame Manzoor and Farhat ? Anyone playing at this level is not here to have a free trip like Ijaz Butt. All should be held responcible and criticised equally.

Finally, you haven’t said anything about Asif I mean the guy is playing Test cricket after a long time and he took what like 8 wickets, moreover, we lost this Test due to our batting, as our bowling was good.

Mohammad Munir,

Yaar Asif performed well but the reason we specifically mentioned Aamer was because he reminded of Akram in that spell.
Asif is a genuine matchwinner and we know that.

The criticsm of Malik is not based on one match but the context which is 5-7 years now. As a senior player he should come before many others, as everyone goes like, he is a senior player, he should play. But he is hiding behind at number 6 and yet doesn’t have any impact on the match.

“He did not come to the field next day and told the media he is nursing his injured ankle.”

He did bowl 7 overs and took the wicket of Moin Khan on the third day.

Great win by India! Sree has come back and has taken the role of new ball bowler as fish to water. His seam position was perfect and his line and length were ideal for the wicket. Bhajji and sir-pe-bojha bowled well and deserved more wickets.

Batting has been top class for quite a few years now. Gambhir has settled into this opening role nicely now and is, as someone rightly said, one of the young cricketers to watch out for. Sehwag was at his dominating best, killing the confidence of the Lankan bowlers, especially Mendis. Poor chap was hammered top down and bottom. Life has come a full circle for this guy. I hope he recovers from this molestation. The chuck-de-fatte highest wicket taker was also taken to the cleaners. Rightly said, he should now think about retiring. Who-is-this-Herath took 5 wickets adding to the dilemma of selection for the under-fire Sanga. The woman in the team (mahila) could not perform in this match and hence the batting collapsed.

Closing in on the first spot in test rankings, this Indian team is truly one of the bests and deserves all of this, just that it needs to tighten its bowling, running between wickets, fielding and a little more confidence in their abilities. But that would only happen in a utopic world. So lets just cherish in whatever we have.

In the mean time, hard luck for Pakistan. Aamer looks to me a one man army. Yousuf is too sluggish as a captain and burdening one of the only test class batsman in the team with captaincy is beoynd me. Had it not been for Akmal brothers, this match would have been over a lot earlier. Although it looks a tight finish, NZ would be really happy because they did something which not a lot of teams are capable of – winning the match after losing first few sessions. Why try Farhat again? Poor guy Alam will loose his place if Misbah is in. Instead drop the dropper Farhat and play Alam in opening position. Bowling has come good for Pakistan and looks like there is a lot of potential there. It is only the batting which is concern. Ideally in this form, even Yousuf would not make it to the team, but since there is so much dearth of batsmen, he is not only the lead batsman but also the captain. Younis is too emotional and ego-centric (which mostly go hand-in-hand ). Anyways I wish all the best to you guys.

Take care

Hi all…. Eid mubarak to all

I was not feelng too good physically lately and still am not upto it. But somehow or other keeps myself informed about my passion, Cricket.

I know several of you enquired about me. I am deeply touched and have no words to express my gratitude.

Thanks all once again.

Javed Khan, Khansahab and Omer …

Shoaib Malik and the Seniority Issue :

First and foremost, let me start with accepting Malik as a mediocre player of the team, but I must state this also that there are players in this current team who are more pathetic then Malik, so why blame him only ?

Today Malik have become one of the senior most guys, while a few months back when Younis was playing, Malik was getting away being a not so senior player.

I have seen a lot of comments on LS blaming Malik during Sri Lankan series and saying that ‘Malik was not held responsible because all the blame was going on seniors (who at that time were Younis & Yousus)’. Yes I agree Malik was getting away but peoples use to say that he should be held responsible even though he was not the senior most, what has changed now ?

Secondly, Mohammed Asif have taken 8 wicket and still you think he is not bowling to his potential ? And I didn’t see even a single sentence praising him. I agree Aamir is a better prospect and he too bowled well and he is definitely a better batsman then Asif, but in this specific game he is the one who did not bowl to his full potential.

Javed Khan …

I did never mention Dubai, Afridi or Younis Khan in my initial comments so I would rather refrain from dragging them directly in our discussion.

M. Y. Khan …

Good to know you are keeping well and our most sincere wishes for your health.

Where is Awas these days ?

Javed Khan …

And, the reason you are picking up @ Fawad Alam is because your expectations from him are higher than that of Farhat and Manzoor. So, khansahab’s point is valid that you expect more from the seniors and when they don’t perform or deliver you get more upset. But, here you are not upset but trying to make your point by saying you have your favourites and your targets. I will repeat this phrase again, ‘a mind can only see what it is prepared to see.’

What a beautiful paragraph you have drafted and I agree with almost all of what you said specially … ‘a mind can only see what it is prepared to see’.

It works for all of us … doesn’t it ? (Now how could I not put a smiley here)

Javed Khan,

The issue of drugs is not something new to cricket. If you remember, Shane Warne was also tested positive of some kind of dope. Thereafter, he announced his retirment from one day cricket. Incidentally, players aren’t tested before or after test matches by the ICC (as far as I can remember, that is the case). So, they can play as much test cricket as they want without being tested. Also, it seems to me that the unfair advantage that such drugs can provide can be much more useful for test cricket: The long version requires more sustenance and strength.

As far as Asif is concerned, he has been punished for what he did, just like Shane Warne had been. If he is found positive again, whatever the relevant protocol of a second offence, the PCB and the ICC should align itself with it.

But, the issue of drugs like Cannabis and Opium is totally different. They are drugs taken for the sake of pleasure rather than performance. I mean if you look around Pakistan, because of the endemic growth of poppy in Afghanistan, this is something that has become increasingly common in Pakistan. Out here in the US, this is something pretty common, too. It is not just cannabis, but also hallucinogens and various other type of drugs. From presidents to prime ministers, everyone seems to have experimented with them at some point in time. I believe Imran Khan and company were also caught in such acts. And, regardless, alchohol and drugs are not as uncommon as you think inside Pakistan (and this is not something only rampant in the tribal belt, but has also permeated into large segments of city populations such as Karachi as well). So, though this is something, that should be punished as it doesn’t set a good example for others, the penalty can’t be as severe as performance-enhancing drugs.

As far as Arabs and their laws are concerned, they seem to have two standards, one for the populace and and one for the monarchs and the kings. Where offences such as cannabis are severely punished for the general populace, the Arab kings, in all probability, are rampant abusers of these offences. If you remember, who was that Labanese or some other Arabic king…who had made very good friends with Michael Jackson and apparently they were doing poetry together. It is well-documented, by many writers and poets, how their imaginations have taken a wider and more profound depth when under the influence.

But, if he is bowling now without nandroline, and if he performs well, then credit can’t be taken away from what he achieves, as he is gaining no unfair advantage.

Pakistan’s other problem is that, there is a humongous difference between a bowler like Gul and Asif. In other words, the top 2 or 3 in Pakistan are usually way better than the bench-strength. If Asif were to be replaced with Gul as the lead bowler, we would be scratching our heads for hours in front of the screen, watching Gul bowl and the opposition score read something like 600-4, untill the tail comes and Gul adds to his wicket tally.

Asif is not an ideal person to impersonate, but, as a bowler, he is a genuine matchwinner and others like Gul can learn a lot from him and his skill. The fact is that no-one is perfect and no-one is a saint, and if Asif can learn from his mistakes, all good be upon him.

“, I cannot compartmentalize them, it is very hard for me to do that. Because, a sports icon is supposed to be healthy, clean and an example for others. And those who are allowing them or pardoning them aretually negating the laws and bending the rules for celebrities and that is very unfair for others. ”

I don’t think anyone is perfect. In fact I noticed that you said earlier that you liked Imran Khan, Inzamam, and Afridi. At least the former two have been caught red-handed doing such things, and Afridi was caught jumping on the crease. Are these people examples of morality to the young people aspiring to become saints?

Everyone makes mistakes at some point or the other. You have to look at this case of opium in the context of Pakistan, there is a lot of supply, and people increasingly abuse drugs openly (its not like like one or two people, groups of 20, 30 with all forms of different injections and what not, this I can testify seeing it). In the tribal belt, and other lawless areas, people live on these things. If things are in such supply, what can be done…over here, every person to whom it is available tends to do these things. It was less the case before, because there wasn’ as much supply, but, Afghanistan is producing 2/3rds of the world’s poppy now…and Pakistan having the port, forms a natural route to its international supply. Naturally, then, a lot of the “stuff” is “spilled over” in the way.

Anyway, clubs, alchohol, and cannabis, these things, many of our players have been caught before, and many have probably gotten away without being caught. Actually, apart from drugs which are illegal, I don’t even see a problem with these things if people choose to do it. In fact they should make some of the things legal in Pakistan, so whatever happens behind the door comes to the fore.

Javed Khan …

On Mohammed Asif …

Regarding Asif and his problems with the nandrolone and other drugs, I will agree with Omer Admani. Peoples make mistakes and they even commit crimes but that does not mean that they should be blamed for the rest of their natural life for that. Once some one has been penalized and gone through the punishment, they should come out clean and we should also try to forget and forgive them. Even the law states and you can get confirmation on that from our forum lawyer, Khansahab

If this was not the case then, as Omer said, most of the USA presidents (Obama included) and many other known politicians, celebrities, stars, players, etc. had some experiences with drugs at some phase of their life, so what does it mean that we should always hold them as ‘culprits’. BTW, Obama confessed having tried ‘marijuana’ contrary to Asif who said it was only ‘salajeet’ (desi-viagra).

Another thing is that making a mistake or even committing a crime is one thing and having being caught for that is another, and as they say, ‘Bud Sey Budnaam Burra’. Yes, Asif had been caught doing drugs/ nandrolone, but that doesn’t mean rest of our players (or even foreign players) are all saints.

I know you are a perfectionist and an intense person, and at the same time you are very straightforward take pride in calling spade a spade and I fully respect and admire this, but having said that, Islam teaches us to be extra tolerant and forgive peoples’ mistakes, no matter how big and how many times. This also goes inline with the teachings of our prophet, Mohammed (PBUH). Now I know, it is easier said then done, but to forgive and forget is always a better option, or so I think.

On Younus Khan …

I never said or even implied that you are favoring Younus out of the way, or that you haven’t said anything against him, I only said that no one on LS praised Asif when he deserved it and that there are other players who needed to be blamed for that loss beside only Malik.

The thing is that cursing Younis Khan unnecessary or any one else does not justify blaming Malik alone for our first Test defeat as it also doesn’t compensate Asif in any which way.

On Dubai …

If interested (and I surely know you are), please read this article. It’s a balanced view on Dubai from Guardian, UK.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/29/dubai-world-desert-gulf-investors

Finally on Shane Bond …

This is surely a good chance for Pakistan to at least equal or still better, even win the Test series from here.

Sachin not taking field took place on the second evening and not the next day as you had said.

Any source for Dravid apologizing to Sachin?

Javed Khan,

You have made a very crucial point in your post above. The question you have asked is, why should a player who is a matchwinner and star should be treated differently from the one who is not. When I think about it, you are right, that if it were Mohammad Hafeez or Umar Gul commiting the same offense, we might have been less inclined to support them. You and I both were Asif’s ardent fans before the incident, so much so that you were also inspired by his talent and art. However, now you don’t support his inclusion in the team.

However, it could well be a question, why shouldn’t such stars be treated differently. Shane Warne was also involved in some matchfixing offense, as were some Indian players. Variously, based on the star value of the player and his matchwinning capability, punishments have been handed out differently. More broadly, it is believed that Michael Jackson was a repeated drug abuser, but people don’t hold it against him as far as his artistic creativity is concerned. Deigo Maradona, the most creative and capable soccer player ever, has had his own problems through his life with drug abuse. In essence, the question you have asked is a very philosophical one, and as any philosophical question, it will draw varied opinions.

Let me give you an example of a fan who might take the other side to the answer to this question. Where you might say that a superstar is supposed to be perfect and an inspiration for others, another person might say that the superstar that he admires is one which is imperfect and fallible, so that he humanizes his experience of his art and creativity, so that his appeal is not to people who are perfect and complete, but to those that are neither and yet aspire for perfection.
As a more concrete example, of all the people that apply to Harvard, 10-11 percent of the people are admitted, whereas out of 100 people that set about to quit smoking, only 6 are about to do so. Statistically speaking, it is much more difficult to quit smoking than to get admitted into Harvard. Aren’t these quitters high achievers in their own right?

And, so, if Asif were to come clean of his addictions or habbits here, wouldn’t he be a flawed superstar in his own right, an inspiration for people in the sense that, despite whatever his habbits, he was able to overcome them? And, wouldn’t the fact that he is flawed aggrandize his appeal because it will give every imperfect person hope in aspiring towards perfection, however difficult and impossible the task may be. Most importantly, wouldn’t that eventually be a right source of inspiration for the many aspiring cricketers, that whatever the adversity, the person of Asif was able to overcome it?

Fans of Shoaib Malik have already started saying that Fawad Alam should be dropped for the 2nd Test and Misbah should replace him, and that Malik should not be dropped.

This is the height of bias, these biased MF’s have no conscience. Malik has been a loser in Test cricket all his life and Alam has provided hope, being a rare Pakistani batsman who played well on a seaming track and scored a century. Yet, that was not enough for him cement his place in the side and be tried for a few more Tests without the worry that there is a guillotine above his head.

For players like Malik, we can make exceptions and give them repeated chances on the basis of performance on flat tracks and scores of 30 on seaming tracks. But for Fawad Alam, one strike and you’re out.

This biased approach has killed Pakistan cricket.

Javed A Khan

Your analysis on Asif is very honourable and I totally agree that Asif should not have been excused with a slap on the wrist.

I also agree about what Malik has done and his nature as a person and professional cricketer.

BREAKING NEWS

Inti Alam has said Misbah will definitely play in the 2nd Test. He has hinted that Manzoor, Farhat and Fawad Alam will be dropped.

Khansahab,

I am agree with you on Malik, Fawad Alam should be given a longer run. One match doesn’t mean much for a player who is relatively new, whereas Malik and Misbah have failed consistently in many matches. Misbah is being touted as the saviour and flown to NZ, but his travails against pace bowling are well-known to us. The one thing that has went in favor of Malik and Misbah is that Bond has become injured. I don’t think the injury to Bond is good news for Pakistan– it has taken away something very valuable from the series and the quality of cricket in the first match was pretty high in part because of him.

On Asif– you can watch Gul bowl, I’ll see Asif run through NZ in Wellington (if the pitch holds its traditional character)

Javed Khan,

You are mentioning the proceddure and how the rules should be used, but, Asif’s and Akhter’s case, didn’t fall under WADA’s domain (the proper legal proceddure was followed, something which you have been insisting). Thereafter, at the second nandroline offence, he did get a one-year ban, but it was never established (as far as I know) whether he took it again or it was lingering around because of the previous offence. Yet he has served a ban of one year for a recreational drug which many, many have been caught using, not only cricket, but in all sport.

You mentioned Sharukh Khan practicing and peaching what is right..and it reminded of the millions of maulvis now in Pakistan after the soviet invasion preaching to the masses what is right and what is wrong, from medical advice, to family planning advice, to divine advice, to psychological therapy. Not only aren’t these Mullahs not Muslim scholars, but they aren’t educated and don’t know anything about what they preach. This self-righetous Mullah-propagated bigotry plaguing the society as a whole has also permeated into the cricket team, to players like Inzamam and Mushtaq, and wearing a beard is now a convenient way to show how good these Muslims are. Whereas on practicing and preaching, Inzamam’s actions clearly demonstrated that he had his Ranas and Maliks whom he was going to select regardless of performance. At least what Asif did is not hypocrisy..

This is unrelated, but I’ll allude to this article, because it seems to me, that you are not aware what the real Pakistan is like, and how commong alchohol and drugs are over there:

“We lost Swat when we banned alcohol. It’s banned but readily available. Anyone can have it and everyone has it. Smugglers and bootleggers laugh their way to the bank and the imbibers take it as a cocktail of sin, guilt and crime.”

“There is as much drinking, gambling and fornication going on in this country as in any other country. But hypocrisy triumphs every day. We have been living a lie for the last 35 years. Google would tell you the largest number of visitors to porn sites are from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.”

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2009%5C03%5C09%5Cstory_9-3-2009_pg3_5

At the end of Day 1 SL is well positioned in the 3rd Test against India, but India has not lost control over the match totally, this means direction of match depends on how soon they can get the last two wickets and then more importantly how well they bat in their 1st innings.

Dilshan played really well, in fact all of the SL batsmen tried to attack from the beginning and tried not to give momentum to the bowlers.

As Javed Khan wrote, Dilshan hit a six on 92 with two balls to go for tea, I think he was trying to get his hundred before tea, and almost messed it up with last ball. Dilshan is trying a Sehwag here I would say, these days you see more and more people trying to follow Sehwag, in the last test match Gambhir tried to get to his hundred with a six, but ended up getting a four, he still got his hundred with it, but he was clearly trying to hit over the rope and the ball just bounced in front of it. He too is trying to emulate Sehwag, between Dilshan and Gambhir I would say though Dilshan’s style is more closer to Sehwag, in terms of aggression and scoring rate, but he has long way to go before he can match Sehwag.

A good match in progress I think, let’s see what Murali can do, lots of folks commenting Murali will be handful with the pitch offering turn and so on, but I think Herath will be the real one and Murali will be playing support role.

Good news for Pakistan is that Shane Bond is not playing the remaining two tests, without Bond the attack lacks penetration, but remains to be see how much Pakistan can capitalize, especially the top order.

Javed,

Regarding Dilshan dismissal, yes it was a poor decision, but these things happen, we do not know yet if this is a match turning decision or not, I would say if it happened on the 3rd or 4th innings then it has a larger impact on the match, Dilshan could have gone on to score more runs or he could have got out the very next ball, his style of play is such that he could get out trying something risky.

About Inti Alam coming out to talk to media, I saw it during the post match presentation that Yousuf is not comfortable talking to media, I guess he does not speak English? He was speaking in Urdu and Inti Alam was translating the same thing in English, so I assume it is because Yousuf not comfortable speaking English. It is very well possible then he decided to skip all contact with media except the ones like post match commentary. I guess he should still come out and speak in Urdu and let Inti Alam translate, that is the right thing to do.

Javed Khan,

I don’t know what happened (whether the post didn’t get thru), I posted the links of Inzamam, Waqar, Imran Khan, Misbah-ul-Haq, Mushtaq Ahmed all the players involved in some form or the other, with alchohol, cannabis, or matchfixing (or both or all three). The reason why I mentioned hypocrisy is that, in Pakistan, when people like Inzamam and Mushtaq and others keep a beard and make great speeches, people are inclined to see them as saints and the rest like Akram, Asif, Akhter, and others as evil. The problem is deep-rooted in the hypocrisy, Mullahgiri hypocrisy, plaguing Pakistan. While everyone steals, the one who gets caught is a thief. Gradually, he has brought to a level of a traitor who “let the nation down”. This, while anyone who can steal does so, and anyone who can’t steal, talks euphorically about the ones who got rich stealing.

And, there are multiple facades to this hypocrisy. The issue of alchohol is part of it. Everyone drinks it, but everyone pretends he doesn’t. Over here, if the Pakistanis see anyone not fasting, they start giving the looks and stop talking in front of their MSA friends. Yet, you see them hiding from the group, alone enjoying, smoking and eating while pretending they are fasting. Where Hashish is good nasha that everyone can do and every Mosque-going Pakistani does, alchohol is bad because it is haraam.

As for particularly alchohol, it has existed for 5000 years all right, but when half your society drinks, what is the problem in coming out. Why say, he is bad, he drinks, and so is so because of so and so. Moreover, what is with this hiding behind a veil of hypocrisy…And, banning alchohol leads to bootlegging, because the problem is unflinching demand, and whenever there is so much demand, supply creates itself and finds a way. This leads to bootlegging. Americans have had experience banning alchohol, it led to a whole underground industry, the mafia was created, and when alchohol was legalized again because of this, the mafia didn’t dissappear and continues to this day. It took various other forms, found various other means to survive, once the seed had been sown. People become known mafia kingpins in Pakistan doing this undergroyund bussiness, the whole society because fo these dealers and middlemen to the source is corrupted, a mafia is created, people drink it anyway, and yet, Musalman doesn’t drink alchohol, ban it, Musalman doesn’t do this, ban this, ban that and create a Mullah dominated society where these very Mullahs are the drug mafia and make a lot of money through this. As though the idea, Imran Khan-type solution to every problem, be it the very human nature, is to close the eyes and, say, it doesn’t happen, I didn’t see it.

I am not directing this particularly to you, but it is just the case that there is more than that which meets the eye, and one can’t see everything in black-and-white. Where Asif has done this, many others have done this and been caught and many others do this and haven’t been caught, so why brand one person as evil because of this.

Javed Khan

“Omer, First of all its a bit of an exaggeration that there were millions of Mullahs misleading the masses.”
I’ll digress a lot in this, but I bet you haven’t seen the state of Karachi recently..
Before I came here, around a decade or so before that, there was this process going on, the Medrassahs kept on printing new types of paghris, whether peeli, lal, hari, white, yellow, black. What was actually happening was that, any Mullah who wanted to be much of a force in the Mullah-world was coming up with a new paghri with another minor twist in the teachings. This way they were getting political support and declaring everyone other haraam and non-Musalman. All these Mullahs can’t even write, how can they be Islamic scholars?

And, then the race started, with the loudspeakers, who can give better speeches. Almost everything that we do was declared haraam at some point or the other by one of the paghris. But, I am wrong, there are more than millions of these, you should see yourself. People over there tend to go to these Mullahs and ask them advice from anything and everything. Now the Mullah is in a situation, he is the leader of the pack, and in his own view, better than every other Mullah…and people are aksing him a question, say, on medicine that he knows nothing about, because obviously he isn’t a doctor of medicine. How will he reply? He will take a loudspeaker and let creative imagination take over. He will, on purpose, also give an answer that is distinct from what medicine teaches, or where is his divine superiority of knowledge if it accedes with the custom? Unfortunately, this is the state of Pakistan right now.
After the soviet war, when migrations took place into Pakistan, and these people were directed into Medrassahs so that they could be fed and find a place to live, and a bankrupt country with many great depressions in its 60-year history didn’t have the will or the resources, these Mullahs were trapped into the hands of private beneficiaries (the Saudis and their war for regional influence). Thus began the Saudianisation of Pakistan. Now when these Mullahs were being printed…Islamic teachings emphasize tabhleeg, and a typical Mullah is not educated or skilled to make use of his life in some other way, and so the phenomenon of tableegh grew. The smarter Mullahs learnt that being the leader of the pack was not only monetarily beneficial, but it also provided them with political support. Thus politics and hardcore extremists were intertwined, and began the talibanization of the ideology of Pakistan. And, all that has culminated in this, a war for indentity and power that is going on right now in Pakistan. In fact if you take a histrorical perspective on this, it is nothing more than ethnic, and another northern invasion in what is modern Pakistan. Why else would the Taliban, the self-proclaimed carriers of the faith, be able to kill other Muslims inside mosques at their behest? Where is the religion in this? The people at the top controlling this, are now waging a different battle, it is for the heart and soul of Pakistan, so that the state is weakened and Pakistan becomes part of greater Afghanistan or Taliban. And, people like Inzamam and Mushtaq are nothing more than the casualties of this new, emerging ideology of Pakistan.

Lets see how Misbah does, I thought if Afridi could have been sent and asked to come out of retirement, it would have been better. Had Afridi plaed the two matches, he would have come back in practice, ready to captain the team in Australia. I am surprised that, despite his bowling average not much lower than Gul and batting average better than Malik, he is not given a run in test cricket. And, his bowling has improved a lot lately.

Since the match has been delayed, I was reading on BBC..

President Obama has announced a new strategy– there will be a surge in troops and the US has committed to leave the region in 18 months.

However, if the US isn’t successful in 18 months, and Afghanistan breaks into civil war, what will happen of Pakistan?

Pakistan will bear the brunt of the fall-out in Afghanistan. In a way, the US is telling Pakistan that it has 18 months of support (I think).

However, if the Pakistani govt don’t seize the moment, the consequences for Pakistan may be grave. Taliban will attack Pakistan with impunity.

The irony of the situation is that, on the one hand, we have the largest military machine man has ever created and, on the other hand, tribal Taliban with old AK 47s and mountains. In a way, this is also ominous for Pakistan– It seems the Pakistani army will not be able to defend the country if it comes to that after 18 months.

I am not a military strategist, but it seems to me that Pakistan’s approach, along with the US, doesn’t read the situation well. Everytime a bomb is dropped, fuel for Jihad is created. Pakistan can perhaps focus more on a psychological war– that focuses on rhetoric rather than bombs.

The Taliban hasn’t been so dominant because of its military capability, but because of the loudspeaker. Pakistan can learn from them and use the loudspeaker, too. Too ideologically alienate the masses from the leadership– this is what the Taliban have been doing against Pakistan, and this is what Pakistan can use against them, too. It seems that by using the loudspeaker to such good effect, Taliban have redefined the art of modern warfare. If we listen to some of the speeches these Mullahs give, we will forget the very best ones of Obama. I have to say, when I was there, what I have heard, in terms of the pitch of the voice, the way material is organized, and the passion with which the speech is delivered thru Taliban’s biggest weapon– the loudspeaker– Americans aren’t even close to giving such forceful speeches (and Americans are very good at oratory generally!).

Unbelievable– the team has been announced, Alam left out, and Farhat is being played.

Javed Khan,

Main toh is liye bolraha tha, kyunke merey view main mulk usool se chalta hai, personal likes or dislikes se nahe…abhi US ko jaane do waha se, dekhna kia hota hai..kitnay pieces hotay hain, aur kaunsa Taliban ko jaata hai aur kaunsa nahe, aap Canada se dekhna main America se.. sab se pehli galti ki thi constitution main religion daal kar aur, doosri galti ki thi 1971 main, teesra galti zia thee, aur ab ye sab…bangladesh bhi ban gaya, swat bhi bangaya tha.. american pressure main hum ney galti se waapas le lia hai thoray time keliye taliban wait karahe hai america ke jaanay ka…aur lahore bhi jaanay walla that aur yahe hona hai….sharia law chahiye logon ko toh koi nahe rok sakta, wohi mile ga….humney apni history ko distort kia hua hai…ghauri aur ghaznavi foreign invaders thay aur hum ne unhi ka naam apnay bombs par likha hua hai…aur apni history books ko wahe se start kia hai…aur humare history books wahe par khatam hongi….yeh 3000 saal ki history hai iss jaga ki foreign invasions aur humney Pakistan bananay ke bajai poori koshish karli hai ke unhin koh wapas de den…jab tribal law pakistan main aaye ga, Pakistan kaafe swats main convert hojae ga…tabhi log khush hongay.

Javed Khan,

I am struck dumb by Sehwag’s innings. Its 280-something of 230-something balls, and from what I saw on the first day, the pitch was spinning square. Maybe the pitch got easier, but still it obviously wasn’t a flat track.

I am saying, by the time he retires, he will most easily surpass Tendulkar. He has still played 40 percent of the matches Tendulkar has played and he has got 6 double hundreds, is close to his third triple century. If Sehwag plays 80 percent of Tendulkar’s career, and if you double these figures, would anyone even think about comparinf Tendulkar or others with him? IF its 12 double century, 4,5 triple centuries, throw in a 400 or a 500 around.

Javed Khan,

I didn’t mean in terms of runs, I meant as a player. If a player has something like 10-12 double centuries at the end of his career, 3-4 triple centuries, possibly 400s too….would the number of runs be as significant?

And, above all, his matchwinning capability is far superior…

Sehwag doesn’t play for records, he plays to win matches. This is his most admirable trait. That is how we should see him as a player, not by the total number of runs, but the matches he has won. I have posted before the jump in India’s win/loss ratio with Sehwag and without Sehwag since Sehwag started playing…It was around 32 percent..that is a lot of weight that a single player carries.

Few comments and one question:

- belated congratulations to Javed for attempting to write a balanced article on Tendulkar.
- Did not see Sehwag’s innings, but I agree that he will go down as one of the game’s greats even if he retires today.
- Indian batting is in reasonable shape at present. I reckon it is time for Dravid & Tendulkar to retire over the next 12 months and slowly phase in a couple of younger batsmen (Vijay, Badrinath,Raina,Solanki,Pujara,Patel, Karthik etc). They also need a bowling all-rounder, here Pathan comes in, but is unfortunately not Dhoni’s favourite.
- Saw Pakistan’s match live yesterday.These sort of batting performances are not unusual from Subcontinental teams in NZ, indeed, they are the norm.I feel that, generally speaking, when you play on gardens you have to play aggressively, because sooner or later you will get an unplayable delivery (like Umar got).Being aggressive does not mean hitting 4s & 6s all the time, but being on the lookout for 1s & 2s as well at every opportunity.
- Javed’s decription of MoYo “Moulana Kaptan ul waqt, hazrat-e-stroke maker, record tore, tabar tore, maahir ballay baaz”. LOL, very funny.
- A Question for Omar Admani, were you exaggerating when you stated that “aur apni history books ko wahe se start kia hai”. If you were not, what do the history books say about the subcontinent prior to Ghaznavi & Ghauri? Just curious to know.

Wasim Akram will be making his Bollywood debut in a movie called “Patiala House” which is coming out next year.

We knew sooner or later we would see him in movies.

Unbelievable knock from Sehwag. I got up this morning to see the scorecard and even for Sehwag’s status this was unbelievable. 284 not out in a single day is the stuff people imagine but does not happen real, in fact he did not even play full day as SL took 30 mins to wind up their innings. Had he batted for the full day he would have reached 300 which only Bradman has done I believe.

I hope he gets his 3rd 300 tomorrow and possibly go on for the 4th hundred, but chances are unlikely he will get to Lara’s record even though he is capable. It’s just easier to set records than break them.

On Sehwag overtaking Tendulkar, no chance, statistically impossible as Javed Khan wrote. No other player except Ricky Ponting stands a chance to break Tendulkar’s records for most test runs and most test hundreds, but that is only if Tendulkar will retire and give Ricky a chance

But this is irrelevant, Sehwag is not playing for records like that, his achievements are already unparalleled. I have not see such kind of destruction of a bowling line up, even Viv Richards in his pomp did not violate bowling attacks like Sehwag does.

I watched the highlights, and at times I felt sick watching the carnage, you got to feel for the bowlers, Sehwag was mercilessly hitting them left and right, they kept trying new things and he kept finding new ways of hitting them. Murali was violated so badly that his face was looking very upset. On top of that he was dropped on 273 by Mahela off Dilshan. Too bad, you don’t drop a player like Sehwag, not when he is on zero and not when he is on 273.

Should be an interesting days play tomorrow.

Javed and/or Omer,

Tell me one thing, who introduced Islam in subcontinent, was it Ghauri, Ghasnavi, or was it the mogul kings starting from Babar?

We read in our history books that both Ghuari and Ghasni (Ghasnavi) were foreign invaders who came over hindu kush mountains, plundered valuable things and left, and the scenario repeated several times. Mogul kings however is treated more favorably, quite understandably since they were not invaders, even though they captured territory and established their rule over northern part of the sub-continent and spread Islam including even forced conversions they were also considered to have contributed to the culture, education, early infrastructure and development of the whole region.

Babur I believe was considered to be more of the invaders category where as his followers were considered in better light, especially Akbar.

I believe the history prior to that consisted of three major dynasties, Gupta, Maurya, and later Ashoka who was a descendant of Maurya. I think before that things were a bit hazy, there was of course the Mohan Jo Daro and Harappa civilization before that. But we don’t know much about people during that period, do we?

Javed Khan,

What I meant was that, Babur, Ghauri, and others were foreign invaders, they raped, plundered, and pillaged the local population in what is now modern Pakistan. Most of these ivaders were tribes. I have mentioned before how tribe is distinct from civilization, as nomads are mobile because– without large-scale and consistent vergitation or agriculture and without surplus of capital and its storage– the substinence or the hunt is mobile. Therefore, the tribal values, laws, and customs are totally distinct from that of civilizations (they are based on group thought and not indiviudal– individuals are sacrificed for the group). With surplus of capital and the ability to dwell in regions and property, civilizations build–cities, industry, and the like. The tribes, by their nature, plunder and loot because that is their character– that is the way they have learnt to derive substinence.

But the history as it is taught in Pakistan of Pakistan is a distorted ideology, a crisis of indentity– All these were either Central Asian or Arab invaders, not what is modern Pakistan. Our history books start “our” history from their invasions. This is to draw the otherness from India, because the establishment in Pakistan feels that Pakistan would collapse with a lack of this identity which is based on otherness from India (This fiction version of our history is enforced by banning all other versions of history inside Pakistan, in school curriculums). Modern Pakistan has a history which is distinct from these invasions and is much older, it was a civilization, and throughout its history, tribes from Central Asia, mongols, turks, and others have invaded to loot from the city-states. However, the problem arises, that our establishment doesn’t focus in drawing a unique identity for Pakistan– and based on being Pakistani rather than ‘not something’. When we corrupt our history that way, it sets the foundation for a consitution that is both flawed and corrupt and a future which is both flawed and corrupt. Pakistan, along with Saudi Arabia and Israel, is only one of the three countries in the world to have religion as the sole basis of our constitution (just look at the other two to guess what Pakistan might accomplish). The founder of the country urged the nation to not go down this path, but, the distorted ideology of Pakistan gradually and more forcefully paved the way. Ever since, it is as though the Mullah has been enshrined in the constitution. And what does such a constitution which intertwines religion with the state accomplish?

It accomplishes what it has accomplshed, that it creates soldiers in the name of Islam (when they are in the name of Pakistan), everything in the name of Pakistan is intertwined with everything in the name of Islam, and not only the religion is corrupted, but also is the ideology of the state, from the constitution, to everything top-down. Modern nation-states, by being multi-ethnic and having religious diversity, are by their very nature secular states, not religious empires of yore. Modern nation-states are based on the notions of acceptence and tolerance, not enforcement of a particular brand of mode or thought. For instance, there might be a thousand things that you don’t like in Canada (be in alchohol or whatever), but you respectfully accept them, right? This, then, is what a nation-state is and what a tribe isn’t.

The steady disintegration of Pakistan is soon going to take another twist. The US is going to cut its expenditure and leave Afghanistan in 18 months? What then of Pakistan?
After the US invaded Afghanistan, the tribes have declared war on Pakistan. When the US leaves, of which they are saliently waiting, what to become of Pakistan? The loudspeaker has set a foundation for what is to come…the tribe is going to come and loot and plunder, because the Pakistani army will not be able to defend Pakistan. From the British to the Americans, no-one has been able to actually fight these tribes. How can the Pakistan army do this? Would the tribe accede to monetary homage in exchange of restraining invasion after so many years of war with the state? Is this consistent with the notion of revenge which is deep-rooted in the tribal mind-set?

Winston Churchil had to say this about these fighters. He might have had his own misgivings, but the aspect that I am trying to highlight is, how difficult it is to fight with them:

“The inhabitants of these wild but wealthy valleys are of many tribes, but of similar character and condition. The abundant crops which a warm sun and copious rains raise from a fertile soil, support a numerous population in a state of warlike leisure. Except at the times of sowing and of harvest, a continual state of feud and strife prevails throughout the land. Tribe wars with tribe. The people of one valley fight with those of the next. To the quarrels of communities are added the combats of individuals. Khan assails khan, each supported by his retainers. Every tribesman has a blood feud with his neighbor. Every man’s hand is against the other, and all against the stranger.

Nor are these struggles conducted with the weapons which usually belong to the races of such development. To the ferocity of the Zulu are added the craft of the Redskin and the marksmanship of the Boer. The world is presented with that grim spectacle, “the strength of civilisation without its mercy.” At a thousand yards the traveller falls wounded by the well-aimed bullet of a breech-loading rifle. His assailant, approaching, hacks him to death with the ferocity of a South-Sea Islander. The weapons of the nineteenth century are in the hands of the savages of the Stone Age.”

And, this Pakistani state will be able to resist?

Omer,

U.S military is not going to leave Afghanistan in 18 months, not without defeating or driving away Taliban, more importantly U.S military is not going to allow Talibanization of Pakistan, number one reason is the nuclear weapons Pakistan posses. America and other nations cannot let Taliban get hold of this. I believe Obama is wrong in setting the 18 month timeline, I understand he did this to appease his liberal left wing supporters who oppose any war, he himself being a liberal Obama is not comfortable with this, but he went along. But he will not be able to pull out the troops and leave Pakistan to it’s fate, if as you say Pakistani military cannot fight the tribes. I don’t know why you say this, but Pakistani military is not so weak, they have the ability to fight, the question is whether they want to, and do they have a civilian leader who can unite the country and command the military, I guess the answer is no they don’t at the moment. This is the danger in Pakistan.

Newguy,

Pakistani military will not be able to fight them. Pakistanis might think they are the strongest people in the world, but thinking doesn’t make it happen.

Pakistan has to wage a multi-pronged war which aims to alienate Taliban leadersip from the people. Using the loudspeaker in the same Medrassahs and reversing the process can accomplish things in the same way that the Taliban have accomplished things.

But if you think the Pakistan military can fight them, then just look at the US, which only controls some parts of Kabul (apparently) in the whole of Afghanistan.

And, the problem is, that from this point it may just be impossible to reverse the process– history repeats itself and goes in cycles and this is what Pakistan might find. Where our leadership thought of creating a greater Pakistan in Afghanistan, it may just be that a greater Afghanistan carved out of pieces of Pakistan might just be inevitable. At least, because Pakistan has fed its citizens with a version of history which is fiction, Pakistanis won’t be allowed the luxury to say, “the only thing we have learned from history is that we have learnt nothing from history.”

Anyway, I don’t meant Indian establishment or all of them are saints, I just mean that Pakistan probably doesn’t realize the problem that awaits it…

Omer,
There is no such history of raping women by Ghauri, Bin Qasim or Ghaznavi. You should be careful in uttering such allegations. i neither have time nor energy to write the whole article on it but few words i am copying from Wikipedia:

Sultan Muḥammad Ghorī had no heirs and thus he treated his slaves as his sons. It is said that he trained thousands of Turkic slaves in the art of warfare and administration. Most of his slaves were given excellent education. During his reign many hardworking and intelligent slaves rose to positions of excellence. Once a courtier lamented that the Sultan had no male heirs; Ghorī immediately replied:

“Other monarchs may have one son, or two sons; I have thousands of sons, my Turkish slaves who will be the heirs of my dominions, and who, after me, will take care to preserve my name in the Khuṭbah (Friday sermon) throughout these territories”

Javed Khan,

Did you see the catch that Butt dropped? Even with eyes closed, a professional cricketer should be able to catch that.

On India, I have said no-one’s a saint. But Pakistan’s history and ideology is fiction and that leads us to the current situation, which I have mentioned, because we are discussing Pakistan.

The same rulers which have raped, plundered, and looted (looting was the biggest motivation) are named on our bombs. The same people who have done this to Multan, Peshawar, Sindh, and the like are reverred. And, our O level history books, begin from there, whereas our history is much older. When we embrace the Central Asian tribe who was a looter, plunderer, and a rapist and make him part of our own history to the extent of erasing our history to start with them, we, by default, pave the path to more invasions in the same area in our collective subconsciousness. And this is why I mentioned, that this is going to happen, such is the weight history. The Aryan tribal invasions weren’t one invasion, but they have happened throughout various periods in time into the subcontinent, and, likewise, the central asian and mughal invasions (from afghania) were simply a continuation of this series of invasions. Apart from this the Arabs did the same, and our ancestors who defended against them, are portrayed in our history books as evil. And, they looted and treated locals as second class citizens.

I am not saying that this happened and it is so bad, I am just saying our history and ideology is distorted that our history starts with foreigners and not locals. And, thus, we find ourselves in such a situation, that another invasion in the very-near-future isn’t too unlikely. The same plundering, looting, and raping will take place– this will be done under the guies of Sharia and Islam, as Muslims are killed in Mosques under the same guise, as girls aren’t allowed to go to schools uner the same guise, as culture and art and everything creative is destroyed under the same guise….because they lack tolerance and they lack acceptence of someone who pursues a different way of life than theirs– as they have learnt to survive in closely-knitted groups and individuals are sacrificed for groups.

Javed Khan,

Musharraf was playing too sides– he let the problem build for a long time. He openly declares all this in his book. He tried to destroy whatever was left of the constitution.

Have you seen the head of the ISI? Someone in such a powerful position seems such an illiterate person– despite whatever education he has– that I was ashamed to read his interview with a German Newspaper. Who goes and makes statements like, “the movie will end, but not without its twists” in an extra smart way, to foreign press? Is he someone from Laloo Khet? He should be exported to Saudi Arabia like all the politicians in Pakistan go in exile after looting the country.

I am personally impressed by Kayani– he seems like a sensible person so far. He has pulled back the army from the civilian institutions and should allow the civilian govt to strengthen.

Javed Khan,

You are missing the point, it is not Muslim versus non-Muslim, it is about our history and where it begins. These people are celebrated in our history, while we were the locals at that time (Hindus). And, even the “local Muslims” at that time were treated with contempt. And, the same is the concept with these names, that they were invaders, they were the rapers and looters and plunderers of the local populace (us), so why put their names on our own bombs? This is all I am saying, it is not Islam verus non-Islamic (or a matter of individual belief altogether), it is about our history books and identity. The point is, it could have been Christians or anyone, but they were foreign, and that isn’t out history. We can distort history, but history exists as it is, it doesn’t create itself at our fancy, we have to accept history as it is…

I was going to emphasize this, who is the conqueror here this excerpt by Taimur the Lame here, a sort of celebrated personality in Pakistani history (in our history books)…who is being killed here and who is killing here, just notice (it is Punjabis who are being killed, I mean Pakistani and Indian Punjabis were a single nation at the time)— and this resonates so much with what is the future of Pakistan, because it is the same guise of Islam which is being used by the tribe, as they use it now to kill local Pakistani Muslims.

“In a short space of time all the people in the Delhi fort were put to the sword, and in the course of one hour the heads of 10,000 infidels were cut off. The sword of Islam was washed in the blood of the infidels, and all the goods and effects, the treasure and the grain which for many a long year had been stored in the fort became the spoil of my soldiers. They set fire to the houses and reduced them to ashes, and they razed the buildings and the fort to the ground….All these infidel Hindus were slain. Their women and children and their property and goods became the spoil of the victors. I proclaimed throughout the camp that every man who had infidel prisoners should put them to death, and whoever neglected to do so should himself be executed and his property given to the informer. When this order became known to the ghazis of Islam, they drew their swords and put their prisoners to death. One hundred thousand infidels, impious idolaters, were on that day slain. Maulana Nasiruddin Umar, a counselor and man of learning, who, in all his life, had never killed a sparrow, now, in execution of my order, slew with his sword fifteen idolatrous Hindus, who were his captives….on the great day of battle these 100,000 prisoners could not be left with the baggage, and that it would be entirely opposed to the rules of war to set these idolaters and enemies of Islam at liberty… no other course remained but that of making them all food for the sword.

Timur further describes as below in Tuzk-e-Taimuri‎ how he and his army massacred the Hindus population of Delhi after conquering it.[21]

The savage Turks fell to killing and plundering, while the Hindus set fire to their houses with their own hands, burned their wives and children in them and rushed in to fight and were killed… All day Thursday and throughout the night nearly 15,000 Turks were engaged in slaying, plundering and destroying. When Friday morning dawned, my entire army, no longer under control, went off to the city and thought of nothing but killing, plundering and making prisoners. The sack was general during the whole day, and continued throughout the whole day Saturday, the seventeenth (Dec 17), the spoil being so great that each man secured from fifty to a hundred prisoners, men, women and children, while no soldier took less than twenty. There was likewise an immense booty in rubies, diamonds, pearls and other gems; jewels of gold and silver… gold and silver ornaments of the Hindu women obtained in such quantities as to exceed all account. Excepting the quarter of the Sayyids, the scholars, and the other Mussulmans, the whole city was sacked.

As per Malfuzat-i-Timuri,[17] Timur targeted Hindus. In his own words, “Excepting the quarter of the saiyids, the ‘ulama and the other Musalmans [sic], the whole city was sacked”. In his descriptions of the Loni massacre he wrote, “Next day I gave orders that the Musalman prisoners should be separated and saved.”

Timur explains his objective behind the Indian campaign as below in Tuzk-e-Taimuri[22]

My object in the invasion of Hindustan to lead an expedition against the infidels… (so that) the army of Islam might gain something by plundering the wealth and valuables of the Hindus… we may convert to the true faith the people of that country, and purify the land from the filth of infidelity and polytheism; and that we may overthrow their temples and idols and become ghazis and mujahids before God.”

newguy

Are you going to sleep early today? The match starts at 11:00 p.m. EST and it is only 2 hours away, so aren’t you going to watch Sehwag completing his 300 and keep on bashing the Lankans?

I am going to stay awake and see if Sehwag gets to 300, let’s see how he plays today.

I am surprised by Umar Gul bowling well today– this is what we mean, he has more potential as a bowler, but he doesn’t bowl astutely. If Gul can contribute this way, then Pakistan can have a formidable bowling line-up.

Javed,

Regarding the history books, I don’t know why you say Akbar is Great is used to appease the Muslims in India, and likewise Alexander the Great and Asoka The Great. These people are called great because they have done some great things, at least, according to the written history. Of course as they say history is written by the winners and it is always twisted a bit to suit the point of view presented. However, I think there is evidence that Akbar did greater things for the development of the region during his rule. Why would it be written to appease Muslims? If a ruler has done something good, whether he was Muslim or anyone, then credit must be given. Why was Babar not given the title of Babar the Great then? could have been done so to appease Muslims. Likewise Alexander the Great is not given by Indians, it is how Alexander is known the world over, we can debate the greatness, but that is a different issue.

Same for Asoka, he has done several things that equal greatness, if it was to appease Hindus then why not someone else?

Lastly, about Nathuram Godse, the guy who killed Gandhi, everyone knows his name, it is in the history books, the book of course did not say he was an RSS man, I don’t think there was Shiv Sena then, nor VHP or any of the Hindu groups, only RSS. Coming back to the books though, they don’t say he was an RSS man, but clearly it is said he was a fanatical, it’s clear without spelling it out, to every kid that reads the books who he was, and who under whose direction he was acting under (Golvalkar founder of RSS), and why he was doing it (RSS was angry with Gandhi trying to appease Muslims and he was planning to travel to Pakistan to show his affection). So, everyone knows it, did you know RSS was banned in India for several years following Gandhi’s death? I believe up until the 80’s RSS was a banned organization. This is when the more softer political organization of Janta party was created, which later became Bhartiya Janta Party (BJP), and who sets of groups under the umbrella like VHP, Shiv Sena, etc came up.

This is one of the truths everyone in India knows without having to write on the books, same goes for Babri Masjid demolition, everyone and their brother in law in India knew for the last 17 years who was responsible for the demolition of Babri Masjid, and the fact that BJP leadership knew and was aware of the plan well ahead. It just took the commission so much time to come up with truth. But the truth did come out.

So, in this respect India has always upheld justice eventually. I know you don’t have such a great opinion about the secular democracy in India, it may not be perfect, but it works, sometimes slow, but it is not totally unjust, and fairness do exist in the overall sense.

Javed,

You said:
Auranzeb’s time but, because he was a conservative Muslim as opposed to Akbar he is considered as a villain and Akbar who was more liberal and wanted to marry Joda Bai created a new religion Deen-e-Ilahi is considered as Akbar the Great.

This is true. I never Akbar was considered great because he expanded the empire, he was secular, and he was liberal as you say, and he did not ill treat the Hindus as much as the other Mogul rulers, people like Babar and Aurangzeb. Also the pillaging and killing of Hindus by invaders are deliberately left out of Indian history books, they are there, but not to the extend of what has really happened, like mass massacres and things like that. Why? Just imagine if such things are filled into the head of modern day Indians today, with majority Hindus it will be really hard to keep down hatred and communal violence. So, let history rest in peace, future is more important.

Right, Sehwag missed making history by being first man to score 3rd triple ton. Such a disappointment, I had this feeling after the first few deliveries that he may not get there, because he was taking singles and was a bit tense may be. I sensed this when Rahul Dravid jumped out and hit a six in the previous over, he was trying to release tension for his partner.

But Javed bhai don’t lose heart, Tendulkar will look for another hundred today

What is happening in the Pak-NZ match? NZ batsmen are falling over one by one, 85/5 for now and Pakistan in a very good position to wipe out the rest for cheap and get a big lead.

Javed Khan,

You asked the question about rape?

You must be seriously kidding me, it was a common tool, and is a common tool, of waging war. Why do you think, tim the lame says, the Punjabis (and bear in mind, this includes Ramiz Rajas and Wasim Akrams ancestors) burneed their wives?

This is a common practice in war and, more so, in tribal warfare, where beoudin Arabs and various other tribes around the world, kept women prisoners as sex slaves. This is the booty of war.

When soldiers go to war, it is scientifically proven how there instincts trandform— and in tribal warfare, where the tribes always fight, these instincts dominate– and are also used as a means to subjugate the opponent mentally. This has been the norm, and especially among Arabs, the spoils of war are distributed such that the women become sex slaves and children become property. These Central Asian tribes are no different in this sense, and that is why you see, the local Punjabis, and Inzamam’s forefathers and great grandfathers, burning their wives and children.
But these are tribal customs, this is the way the tribe works, and the pillaging goes on for booty of war– the slaves which are used as property and the jewellry and all the other good things.

What bowling by Kaneria– he set the batsman up. New ZeaLand 7 down.

Dear friends,

I have been travelling in India for the past few days and hence did not get any time to write anything. At the moment I am using the free internet on the newly built airport at Delhi and waiting to catch my next flight. Although I have not been contributing but i have been reading what everyone is writing on LS.

First of all, As i could not do it before congratulate Javed A.Khan for coming up with such an impressive and interesting tribute to Tendulkar. I particularly liked the the butterfly-effect example!

Not much time left but since there is an interesting debate going on between all of us regarding the history of Indian&Pakistan Subcontinent I would just add something in brief quickly that Ashoka the Great is not really remembered because he was a Hindu but because after one of the battles he got so saddened and disheartened by the death and misery all around him that he converted to Buddhism and since then he worked greatly in spreading the word of Gautam Buddha all over Indian and beyond, Infact the he is greatly remembered because of this reason and the rise of Buddhism at that time before the advent of Islam was primarily because of steps he took so it would be wrong to say that he is mentioned in the Indian Text Books to appease the Hindus.

For a change I am agree with Omer Admani with whatever he has written on this subject and I am sure he must’ve enjoyed Sehwag’s latest double hundred..

Down Under it looks like like Pakistani Bowlers will be able to make the series 1-1 which will be a good achievement considering the kind of problems they are facing these days. I only saw the game for 30 minutes when Misbah and Malik were playing and what a pathetic shot Malik got out to. He should be sacked when they return, atleast Kamran Akmal plays such useful knocks most of the times when the team is in trouble but Malik the Politician should instead try his hand at Politics by joining PPP

More laters…time for my next flight…

Javed Khan,

You want the evidence for a Afghan-Turkik army invading India and not raping the women?

You are saying that I exagerrate, but you fail to see, that these are common practices, especially when we are talking about the central asian invaders. His rape of Prithvi’s wife is speculated, and it is inconceivable, that his army didn’t engage in mass rape. When we read history, it says, so and so invaded soand so, but it never says, so and so raped so and so, because it is common and almost redundant to say so, unless rape is used as a weapon to mentally subjugate a people. When we are talking about tribes, we are talking about warrior nations, and this is inescapable. Regardless, you are missing the whole point of the discussion, our history is totally distorted to fit the ideology of Pakistan. Cambridge University and the GCE Board should be banned from printing exams for money if they participate in mass manipulation of knowledge.

Here’s a link which establishes his army engaging in rape:
http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Qutb-ud-din_Aybak_-_Career/id/4696095

Don’t get me wrong, with this I don’t mean that the Indian version of history is right, they also grossly manipulate the history of subcontinent (Especially when it comes to Muslims).

But, my point is that, our history begins with Ghauri and these people, when that is just not true. The history of the region is much older. The irony is that we’d rather relate ourselves with tribes rather than a civilization, eventhough the latter is true.

Dear Javed,

with all the respect I have for you regarding cricket etc you come up with something like “Even in their own history text books up to pre-grad level they don’t mention who killed Gandhi? The children have been told that one bad man killed Gandhi. They don’t want to mention that it was Nathu Ram Godse who was a Shiv Sena Bhagt, a Hindu Fundo from Maharashtra and they created this “Stop Gandhi Movement” and assassinated the poor man”.

This is so utterly false. I was born and educated in India and I knew at the age of 10 that Gandhi was killed by Nathuram Godse. And so did all my friends, because it was in textbooks ( by the way Shiv Sena did not exist at the time- – - or for the next 30 years). As regards your statement about Prithvi (named after Prithvi-Raj Chauhan), Agni, Surya and other missiles named after Indian heroes and Gods , you are right. But are you saying that Ghaznavi and Ghauri are Heroes of Pakistan and if so, why ????

In my high school the history books had detaled duscussion about the Slave dynasty [Iltutmish (Altamash), Balban etc], Khilji dynasty (Alauddin, Ghiyasuddin etc) and Mughal dynasty. Indeed, the Indian ICSE History syllabus has more Muslim kings than Hindu.

I think that this is what is lacking in an average Muslim (not lacking in Islam, because Islam is perfect), but an average Muslim who has this tendency of “the world against me”. Well in today’s world it is true to some extent. But having lived in India, I can tell you that Muslims have the freedom and the support to do most of what could be done within the laws,Gujarat notwithstanding, because just like many innocents lost their live in Godhara and in Meerut ( latter in 1987), many innocents non-muslims lost their lives in Kanpur and Rampur(in 1989 and 1992).

Have you heard of any other country in the world with 2 different civil laws, one for muslims and one for hindus? If a Muslim marries 4 times , it is fine in India but not for a Christian or a Hindu. The discussion whether it is right or wrong to have differing civil laws is another discussion, but it just goes on to show that India has tried to accommodate.

Yes, I know about Assam and Tamil Nadu and Kashmir etc etc, but this is a price one has to pay for living in a tolerant multi-religious , multi-cultural society. there would always be people who would want to be “independent”, like Bangladesh for eg, (who are still searching for the answer to the question as to why did they become indepenedent!!!) but looking at the bigger picture,India has done alright.

Both of our countries have lots of maladies to deal with. But one should confine oneself to commenting on his/her country’s problems, rather than commenting on others. The fact of life is that, as a nation India has somewhat matured (despite a multi-relgious and multi-racial society) but Pakistan has not. It is not what I would like to see, but it is a fact. And I hope it changes.

Javed @ 286

very well said, ”I am agree with you ”
Sorry life is too hectic at the moment, i got exams, work and a little annoying business, I am just so tored now but i need to keep going like that till mid of December.
gtg,

Javed Khan,

When have I mentioned that Indian version of history is completely authentic? In fact Jaswant Singh recently wrote a book in which he mentioned that partition happened because of Nehru, not Jinnah (and in Indian textbooks Jinnah is blamed for partition). Jaswant Singh was dismembered from the BJP and his book was banned (in a so-called secular state). Basically, in India there is also Hinduvita ideology and they have manipulated history and provide Indians a totally false version of history. It fuels extremist ideology in India and, if you remember, I have posted about Samjhota Express, Malegon– that is what that leads to.

I was talking about Pakistan because the history begins with foreign invaders. That is a gross misrepresentation.

Javed Khan at 312,

When am I disagreeing with you? Rape has been used by the Indian army as a “systematic” tool in Kashmir.

But, I wasn’t even attempting to discuss Muslims and Hindus, I was just saying that our history books are manipulated. In all truth how can central asian tribes like Tim the lame ever represent Islam? They were like the Taliban are now, the self-projected carriers of faith…and Taliban have killed 100s of times more Muslims than any other people.

I was just saying this because, that is the future if we don’t learn from history. But we don’t have the correct history to learn from it.

Shiv Sena is the off-shoot of Rashtriya Sveyem Sevak Sangh = RSS, the most feared and hated Hindu armed gang of Hindu Mahasabha.

The current Bhartiya Janata Party is the off-shoot Mahasabha.

After Gandhi’s assassination, both these parties were banned.

Even today, all these parties are reffered to as “Sangh Parivar”.

Javed Khan,

I would be in fantasy land if I were to think that Pakistan’s history began in 1947 or with Mohammad Bin Qasim. You are wiping the whole history of the Punjabi and the Sindhi nations by claiming that. You can believe whatever you want to regarding history, but history is not your or my creation, it is what it is.

Javed Khan,

The Punjabis were a one nation and people then.

Yes, the present is the continuation of the past. And, you have to also consider the scenario, what will be the next chapter in the history of Pakistan?

After the Americans leave, the tribes will invade Pakistan. People think this is a joke, especially, Pakistanis but what they don’t realize is that the first incursion has taken place in Swat. It was in their control, and, under American pressure, we have taken it back for now. But the stage has been set for what will happen in the future (Pakistanis consider everything as such a joke, and they fail to see that, what was Pakistan in 1947 isn’t now, it has been broken once, another piece was carved recently when Swat went to the tribes).

I can’t help but think that the outcomes are not only ominous for Pakistan, but the whole region.

If we were to think the Americans would leave, the invasion will take place. Punjabis which enjoy the most power right now (and stand the most to lose) in Pakistan will react by Pakistan going into a state of war with the tribes. And, depending on the outcome of this event, it will shape the future of the while region. Because, if the tribes are going to conquer what is Punjab, the west and India will not hold back, they will detroy Pakistani nukes. Remember that India and Israel were going to do this, and it would have happened, had the Americans not stop them, tip the ISI, and restrain Israel. This sort of benevolence will not come from the west, but instead their wrath (nor will any other type of aid– which would mean a bankrupt and weak center). Power is like a lever and as the center will weaken, the tribes will be emboldened and penetrate further. This would set more alarm bells ringing, a perfect foil for India with the help of the West and salient Chinese (as the Chinese also fear the tribes and for that reason persecute their presence in western China) to invade Sindh and Punjab. Hence, this can well turn into a battlefield again, between tribes from the north and India abetted by the West). And, most likely, the region west of the Indus will go to the tribes, and east of the Indus will go to India.
Western thinkers are rational people and they have probably already considered all the outcomes. Pakistanis are blinded to history and that is why the Americans are pushing Pakistanis, because they know that it is another tribal invasion, and the fear is that, if they get the nukes, then they will not restrain (as they never have before). The West probably has already planned plan B should nothing work, which is to destroy Pakistani nuclear assets. Once this happens, whatveer happens in Pakistan is not their bussiness, until India is threatened, and the the battle for Punjab and Sindh begins from the west and the east.

This means that, the

Mohammad Yousof has found form again and played an important knock. But, Pakistan should play fast or declare, because they can’t discount rain in the next two days. It is uneccesary at this point to play so slowly, they should attack and get 40-50 quick runs– the lead is already 400 which is more than enough.

This is to add to what I referred to Chinese fears (people could read below in current events about the attitude of the Chinese towards them):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_people

And, these nations are actually such warrior nations, that the Chinese actually fear their presence (despite being strong as they are). As a result, supposedly the Chinese persecute them.

But, this is why, the Chinese also fear what is happening in Pakistan. They fear that these people could connect with the Taliban some time in future (or draw inspiration), or the Taliban can use them as a focus to make inroads into mainland China. That is why if Pakistan becomes more Taliban-centric, China will distance itself more and more from Pakistan (I believe that is the case, I am not hundred percent sure, but almost certain). This is why, the Chinese have recently, increasingly, distanced themselves from Pakistan.

Taliban back in action (Punjab under seize):

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/04-blast-in–rawalpindi-qs-04

Asif has cut through NZ and Kaneria has provided the balance. The batsman is always under pressure, when he plays Kaneria– Kaneria took 3 wickets and gave away 6 runs in the first innings and is doing a fine job os supporting Asif here. So, basically, we know who said it all

I had said three years ago that Malik is not a player and he is still not a player. Its not like I want to boast about my predictions, but I can’t help it– they turn out right so often

I guess I was wrong about Asif when I commented before the start of the series that he is past his prime, he is proving to be a match winner, 3 top order wickets in no time and at a very good economy rate, to go along with 4 wickets in 1st innings.

There is only one result possible in this match, there is no way NZ was going to win chasing 400 odd to begin with, and the early strikes by Asif has sealed the game in favor of Pakistan. It’s only a question of when the match will get over and how much is the margin of win.

I agree with Javed’s last comment, “I think we would be better off discussing cricket”

Cricket it is, and Pakistan is in really good position in this second Test and they SHOULD win it from here.

LOL @ Shoaib Malik’s consistency.

LMAO @ Sunil “Bakvaskar”

The name just suits him so well …. Ism-e-BaMussama.

Misbah replaced Fawad Alam, but what good has he done? He has put down a catch off Kaneria, he made 54 runs in this Test at a strike rate of about 35.

He is batting at no 5, if Fawad was batting lower down he would have scored more. The ball was swinging profoundly when Fawad was batting.

That is why I get amazed at these decisions, rather than trying Alam at no 5, they are sacrificing him and playing Misbah. Umer Akmal does not need to worry about failing in a few matches- his place is now secure, but the team management never let Alam secure his place. There was always a sword dangling over his head.

Before the squad was announced we had heard rumours that Misbah would make it into the squad and I had said straightaway this would hurt Fawad Alam. How strange that a player who makes 168 on a seaming track on debut, has to contend with this that if he fails in 2 innings consecutively, he will be replaced by Malik or Misbah? Whereas, Malik and Misbah have a record of inconsistency and poor performance, but they don’t get sanctioned like this?

Omer/Javed A Khan

Sehwag was outstanding in this match and I straightaway wanted to do a thread on him when I saw his score and strike rate, but did not do so because could not get the time.

You can say that Sehwag’s presence makes the batsman at the other end feel comfortable and even the newbie Vijay scored heavily, but the other way of looking at this is that the pitch is so easy to bat on that even Vijay made 87 at a strike rate of 72. I disagree with Omer that the pitch has some life, it is totally lifeless and I have seen the highlights. Sehwag defended when the ball was swinging initially, but once it stopped he launched this assault. The ball was coming onto the bat very nicely and it looked like a club level player could perform well on this pitch.

I am only saying this because Omer straightaway said that it was not an easy pitch to bat on, which I disagree with. Almost every top and middle order Indian batsman scored at least a 50.

As far as the knock goes, it was extraordinary and catapults Sehwag into the “legend” category. Surely, he is one of a kind and has no match.

People have contrasting views on the Mughals who ruled India for centuries. My view is that, good or bad, they have contributed much to India in terms of literature, architecture, development etc.

If there was no Babar, there would have been no Shah Jahan. 15 years ago when India was not considered an emerging global power as it is now, the Taj Mahal was one of the very few things India was renowned for globally.

Aurangzeb was known to be a religious extremist; who is an extremist is up to personal definition I guess. But, Aurangzab was fearless and there were some good qualities in him, such as humility and simplicity. For a large part of his life he stitched prayer hats and made his income doing that and when he died, he only had a pittance in his purse. There is a very famous incident when he was on the battleground and at prayertime, he laid his prayer mat and started praying. He got wounded by a few arrows but his enemies were struck by his devotion to God and his courage- they surrendered to his army after watching the commander perform prayers amidst arrows and swords.

I consider Aurangzab to be a great Mughal for these reasons, and if he was a religious bigot, that is the only blemish about him. He had most of his brothers and sons executed, but in those days people would do anything for power.

I also consider Babur to be a great Mughal, because he created something out of nothing and acquired a vast empire with a very small, but courageous and skilled army.

Khansahab,

My views on Mogul rulers are similar to yours, they contributed to the development – architecture, education, infrastructure, literature, arts, and not the least culinary skills. Where would India be without good old Biriyani, Goat curry, Beef roast, Parathas and the like We will be eating Ghaas poos.

PCB chief’s “close relative” clings on to CFO’s post despite expiry of deadline

LAHORE – Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) chairman Ijaz Butt is yet appoint the Chief Financial Officer (CFO) despite the expiry of the deadline (November 30), which was set by the Governing Body (GB).

The post has been lying vacant since last year after Arif Kichloo resigned. Instead of appointing an experienced person on the important post, Butt appointed his close relative Mohammed Naeem to look after board’s financial matters, on an honorary basis.

Later, the Board members decided to allow Naeem to work till March 31, 2009, to be followed by the appointment of a full-time CFO.

Naeem’s tenure has been full of controversies and insiders said he almost acts as the vice-chairman of the board.

The National Assembly’s subcommittee summoned him twice regarding different issues, but he did not appear on both occasions. (ANI)

Khansahab,

When did I deny Mughals contributed to the culture of India?

All I meant was that is where the history doesn’t start.

Omer

I am sorry; I did not at all address you in that comment about Mughals.

That comment was just a response to Newguy- I haven’t read your comments on the Mughals yet!

Javed Khan,

What is modern Pakistan is made up of Sindhis, Punjabis, and Peshawris, and Balochis. You can’t just trace the root to Islam, because these people have existed for much longer (probably even before the advent of Islam). What are Punjabis or Sindhis or Peshawris? They are cultural groups, they are linguistically, culturally, and ethnically the same people. Islam is a belief and anyone can believe in Islam anywhere in the world, it has got nothing to do with being Sindhi, Punjabi, or Peshawri. If the British accept Islam, does that mean that all their past is erased?

You might not see the Taliban the way I see it, but you can see in practice, what they do, and the very tribal nature, aren’t distinct from the tribes which have invaded in the past. When Pakistan struck a deal for Swat, you must keep in mind that, whatever face that was shown to the public, in essence, Pakistan had “struck a deal” of providing them money at the time (this is why I said, would they accept monetary homage once the US leaves?). But was that enough? No, they penetrated further.

I am not getting paranoid at all. You are thinking through emotions in that these are the same people, Muslims, but they are a distinct people, because they are a tribe, and Sindh, Punjab, and Peshawar aren’t tribes. So, basically, the only similarity is in the belief Islam, but where is that similarity, just look at them killing people yesterday in Rawalpindi (Muslims in mosque and “targetting” state personell to “weaken the state”? This isn’t Islam, this is the very tribal instinct you are seeing, the only difference is that the Taliban have been able to unify the tribes in a collective bargain for loot and plunder and rape which is going to take place.

Javed Khan,

I don’t think you read the link I posted and gave a reply in support of the Taliban, that they will stop once the US leaves…I’ll paste the article now (and you may read in detail, the nature and the way which they did this, it has tribal warfare written all over this):
RAWALPINDI: Armed militants stormed a mosque during Friday prayers in Rawalpindi’s supposedly secure military residential area and killed at least 40 people, almost half of them children and five senior military officers, and wounded over eighty others before being gunned down by security forces.

In what appeared to be one of the worst incidents of terrorism in recent years, militants opposed to Pakistan army’s operation against Al Qaeda and the Taliban touched a new low in their activities when they violated the sanctity of a mosque to kill and maim worshippers in cold blood.

Besides 16 children, an army major general, a brigadier, two lieutenant colonels, a major and a number of soldiers were among those killed in a multi-pronged attack at the Parade Land Askari mosque that involved grenade throwing, firing from automatic guns and deadly explosions.

The siege ended after two suicide bombers blew themselves up. Although mosques and imambargaghs have in the past been targeted by sectarian terrorists, this was the first time that such a such large number of children were gunned down by any militant group even though the apparent target were military officers offering Friday prayers in the community mosque.

Most of the children were at the mosque along with their fathers or other relatives and belonged to military families, officials said.

‘Like every Friday my son had accompanied me to the mosque. Now he is dead and I am standing here in front of you,’ said a highly disturbed elderly man, his clothes soaked in blood.

As word spread about the terrorist attack in the city, scores of people gathered outside the Westridge area, but were prevented by military police and security personnel from going near the mosque as for many hours the situation in the area had remained volatile.

It was late in the evening when authorities cleared the area and allowed the people to go in.

A military spokesman said the dead included Major General Bilal Umer, Brigadier Abdul Rauf, Lt-Col Mansoor Saeed, Lt-Col Fakhr and Major Zahid.

Several senior serving and retired military officers were also among the injured. They included a former vice chief of the army staff, Gen Muhammad Yousuf (retd) (also known as Gen Joe), a brigadier, a colonel and a couple of majors.

As anger and sadness gripped Rawalpindi and rest of the country, a top leader of Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) claimed responsibility for the brazen attack.

The head of TTP’s South Waziristan operations, Waliur Rehman, told the BBC that militants loyal to his organisation had carried out the attack on the mosque.

The chief military spokesman, Major General Athar Abbas, condemned the incident and described it as a work of anti-state terrorists whose sanctuaries have been destroyed by the military in the tribal areas.
He said the same group was now using their remaining assets in cities to terrorise the nation.

The ISPR chief told DawnNews that authorities would investigate if there was any serious breach.

Security in areas housing military installations or residences had been beefed up manifold in recent weeks, particularly after the audacious attack on the General Headquarters in October.

Resident told Dawn nearly 150 people, including women and children, were offering their prayers when a group of four militants scaled a high brick wall of the mosque by using a small ladder, landing among the worshippers.

An injured man said one of the attackers first threw hand grenades into the worshipers. A deafening boom followed. Later there were two more explosions, followed by machinegun fire.

Gunfire, mayhem Ali, a witness, said another attacker started firing randomly into the mosque, creating mayhem among worshippers.

He said he saw wounded people lying in the courtyard of the mosque. A large number of shoes dripped with blood were scattered all around in the mosque premises.

Security sources said that the group of militants who attacked the mosque had come on a car bearing Islamabad’s registration, defying all security checks and they were spotted scaling the mosque’s wall by some children playing in a nearby ground.

At least seven handgrenades, two national identity cards, two sports bags and some documents were found from the boot of the grey colour car the militants had used to come there.

Officials later said the dark grey colour Toyota car that militants used to travel to the Parade Lane had a fake registration plate of Islamabad, which in fact was that of a white colour car.

The armed men parked the car at a good distance from the mosque and then scaled the rare wall to get inside the place before detonating grenades and opening fire on worshippers, with two of them blowing themselves up to cause maximum death and destruction.
A bomb disposal expert said that as many as six live hand grenades were recovered from the scene and all were of Russian make.

They also said the two bombers were carrying in their jackets about eight kilograms of explosives each. The experts also collected ball-bearings and other steel material of over 3.5 kilograms from the place, which was used by the bombers to cause serious injuries.

Shortly after the deadly attack, the area around the mosque was heavily cordoned off by the army and police while military helicopters continued hovering over the mosque till sunset amid unconfirmed reports that one of two of the militants might by hiding somewhere in the area.

However, authorities said the area was opened to residents after a thorough search and elimination of all terrorists.

Of the 40 dead, 19 bodies and 73 injured victims were shifted to the Military Hospital, 17 dead and nine injured were removed to the CMH, one dead and four injured were brought to the AFIC and three dead were shifted to the DHQ hospital.

A senior police official said that some suspects were taken into custody by the security forces and they were being interrogated.

Yaar Javed Khan,

Phir wohi US ko beech main laarahe ho aur ussey lens se soch rahay ho…US chala jayega Afghanistan se, us ka kuch nahe jaata, US bohot bara hai uska kia hojayega waha pe….agar central asia main kuch long-term gain be tha US ka, toh US ne risk lia, investment ki, work nahe kia aur chala gia…liken Pakistan ko pata chalay ga…aur kyun ke PAkistanis ke paas sahe history nahe woh samajh nahe saktay…Pakistani intellectuals ko sab kuch pata hai ye….tabhi toh moolah dia tha mullah ko swat main….kyunke ye age-old custom hai keh cities tribes ko moolah detey hain taakey woh city ko invade nahe karay…liken greed tribe ki nahe jaati eventually invasion hoti hai, tribe city main power main aata hai, har cheez ko control karta hai, civilized hojata hai, aur uski kinship jo original tribe se hoti hai, woh ussey support karti hai…generations ke baad ye kinship khatam hojati hai aur process repeat karta hai…phir tribe aata hai, phir rule karta hai, aur phir wohi process repeat karta hai..

Inki fighting ability ko underestimate karna sahi nahe hai, yeh woh log hain jin se china bhi darta hai…Chinese civilization 5000 years se hai aur unke intellectuals insay dartay hain…aur woh fear kartay hain ke agar in logon ki nationalism start hui aur taliban se connection bana…china bhi fight nahe karsakta insay…toh Pakistan kia karay ga?

Quaid-e-Azam ne mana kia tha, mat karna ye sab jo kia hai, lekin hua kia….jaise main ne kaha ke balochi ik log hain, sindhi ik log hain, punjabi ik log hain….establishment ko mulk ideology aur identity banane thi…un ko in saare nations ki ik nation-state banane thi…unhen socha kaise combine karen is sab ko ik main…aur Islam ko constitution main daala taake Pakistan aapas main larkay break nahe hojaye aur koi tareeke se unity ho in saare nations main…aur is ko accomplish karnay keliye history change karde, aur apne aap ko foreign invader banadia, kyunke agar constitution Islamic hota toh log kaisay koi point par Hindu ya kuch aur hosaktay thay?

Aur jab ye kia unhon ne, jo ke founder ne mana kia tha, PAkistan ke break-up ki foundation lay kardi…Pakistan ko bane hue as a nation-state 50, 60 saal hue hain history main– ye kuch bhi nahe hai 50, 60 saal….agar break-up hogaya toh global history books kabhi Pakistan ka naam bhi nahe lengey…aur in 50, 60 saal main PAkistan 2 pieces main hua 71 main…ab teesra piece bangaya tha swat main…aur ab stage set hai aahista aahista poora tootne ki…ye 4000, 5000 saal ki history ka weight hai…aur Pakistan 60 saal ki creation hai…

Javed Khan,

Are you equating atrocities committed against innocents with how Al Qaida prisoners were treated? Al Qaida prisoners do not deserve the same kind of treatment as innocent civilians, tough luck if some of them died in captivity I say. I am not surprised liberal media such as CBC showing these things, may be they should give some of them place to live in Canada and see what happens.

Javed Khan,

I am not denying what the US has done, but the US doesn’t stand to lose anything, and Pakistan stands to lose everything. If you combine the GDP of Pakistan and Afghanistan, it is not worth half the assets of Lehman Brothers before it went bankrupt. AIG’s assets used to be more than the value of the GDP of India. The US will leave, but Pakistan will suffer. When I say the tribe this that, I don’t mean one is good or the other is bad. It just is, it is just their mode of deriving substinence. But we as Pakistanis can’t think from their perspective, because if we do, then Pakistan will not be. And, don’t go along with the deluded segments of Pakistani media, it is just feeding the same stories which are in more demand among the public.

I agree, that the US increasing troops is bad for Pakistan, as it will drive the militants down into Pakistan (as has been the case). But, I am fairly certain that, once the US leaves, the tribes will turn in full force against Pakistan. Read Winston Churchill’s account: He says, when there is a stranger, they all unite and fight the stranger. In other words, the tribes focus now on the US, and then once the US leaves, Pakistan will become the focus and the “stranger”. This is how the Taliban will derive unity between the tribes and mantain power, and the motivation would be there because of so many years of war with the state of Pakistan– the tribal mind-set is deep-rooted in revenge.

Javed,

Ok, I do not want to get into this discussion – it’s not going to end, but I’ll say only this much to your question “Why can’t anyone leave them alone in their own country and see what happens next?”

Who attacked first? I was watched live when those planes struck WTC, I lost a friend there in one of these towers and another one just narrowly escaped. I know you’ll say these are not Afghanis, but Saudis and what not, and then people go on to justify it by pointing at American military operations in other parts of the world, support for Israel, Palestinian plight, so on .. this is why I don’t want to get into this. But Taliban supported Al Qaida and provided a safe haven to from where they could plot the killing of innocent lives. So, they needed to be driven out.

Javed,

I don’t believe in that conspiracy theory, that is 9/11 was an inside job. The guys who flew those planes were not so illiterate, and it’s not very hard to fly a plane with few hours of learning, especially when they don’t need to land it. Safe haven was given by Taliban, Mullah Omer and his cronies to Bin Laden, so he could have a headquarters from where he could plot these things. I don’t buy in to the theory that this is all a story to dupe the unwashed masses.

If you remember an Indian commercial airline was hijacked couple of years prior to 9/11, and it was taken to Kandhahar, where Taliban allowed the plane to be landed and the hijackers them demanded ransom in lieu of letting go of the plane and it’s passengers. The ransom was to let go of their friends from Indian jail. Indian govt not having the muscle power and having no sympathy from the Taliban had to let go of these thugs. Was this also a conspiracy theory. Taliban supported such things. Besides let’s not forget the atrocities they committed against their own people, and the stone age laws they implemented. So, someone needed to give them a kick in the rear, and U.S did it post 9/11.

I know there is a conspiracy theory that says it’s all about an oil pipeline and what not, like I said I don’t buy it, even if there is truth in that, the fact is Taliban needed to be booted out, and no one else had the courage to do it, except U.S.

Javed,

The point I was trying to make with my prior post is that Afghanistan was not so much of a peaceful place and American military came down and started torturing the people. Taliban rule was causing so much problem to the local population, there were public killings and torturing of people who disobeyed their twisted interpretation of Sharia, women were oppressed and demeaned regularly, young girls were not allowed to go to school, now I haven’t seen these things, granted, I only know this from what I heard from western media eyewitnesses, so I don’t have any other way of knowing this is truth or not, but I tend to believe these incidents were true.

So the point I am trying make is that Taliban were torturing their people, and it’s not like had U.S not intervened things would have been so peaceful there, and I don’t believe locals would have dealt with Taliban, not before things got out of hand, may be a genocide would have been committed, and they would have given strong hold to Al Qaida to plot terrorist operation on other countries, including even Pakistan.

It is in everyone’s interest that extremists like Taliban is dealt with.

For the record, I consider all extremists groups as equally evil, and that include organizations like RSS, and it’s many clones. To me RSS and Taliban are two sides of the same coin, if you allow the extreme version of RSS to control government I have no doubt they would do equally atrocious things like the Taliban. Brutal stone age rituals such as Sati (where the widow jumps in deceased husbands burial pypre) were held in high opinion by extremists Hindus. There is a Hindu religious text called Manusmriti which lays out laws on how Hindus should live, there are extreme version of this text that some extremist Hindu groups want to be enforced. I consider this equal to the twisted versions of Sharia law.

So, I consider all extreme views are evil, and I have no hesitation in calling it the way I see it when Hindu extremists do this.

http://blog.dawn.com/2009/12/03/little-monsters/

Little monsters
Posted by Nadeem F. Paracha in Pakistan, Politics on 12 3rd, 2009 | 155 responses
There is nothing new anymore about the suggestion that over a span of about 30 odd years, the Pakistani military and its establishmentarian allies in the intelligence agencies, the politicised clergy, conservative political parties and the media have, in the name of Islam and patriotism, given birth to a number of unrestrained demons which have now become full-fledged monsters threatening the very core of the state and society in Pakistan.

A widespread consensus across various academic and intellectual circles (both within and outside Pakistan), now states that violent entities such as the Taliban and assorted Islamist organisations involved in scores of anti-state, sectarian and related violence in the country are the pitfalls of policies and propaganda undertaken by the Pakistani state and its various intelligence agencies to supposedly safeguard Pakistan’s ‘strategic interests’ in the region and more superficially, Pakistan’s own ideological interest.

This supposed ideology was convolutedly constructed by the state and the ‘establishment’ of Pakistan many years after the painful birth of the new country. It is, however, still being used by intelligence agencies, certain politico-religious politicians, and media men to actually justify the folly of the Pakistani state and military in the past for not only patronising, but actually forming brutal Islamist organisations.

But whose ideology is it, really? Even though the answer to the question of what Jinnah envisioned is not easily proffered, Pakistan seemed to have a simple answer till about 1956. But this answer it seems did not suit the political and economic interests of the early Pakistani ruling elite consisting of the bureaucracy, the feudal-dominated political circles and eventually the military, and of course, the religious parties.

Till about the late 1960s it was normal to suggest that Pakistan as an idea and then a reality was carved as a country for the Muslims of the subcontinent who were largely seen (by Jinnah and his comrades in the Muslim League), as a distinct ethnic and cultural set of Indians whose political, economic and cultural distinctiveness might have been compromised in a post-colonial ‘Hindu-dominated’ set-up.

As Jinnah went about explaining his unfolding vision of what Pakistan as a political and ideological entity was supposed to mean, there is no doubt whatsoever in the historical validity of the notion that he imagined the new country as a cultural haven for the Muslims of the subcontinent where the state and politics would remain firmly secular, driven by a form of modern western democracy that also incorporated the egalitarian concepts of Islam such as charity, equality, unity and a healthy appreciation of intellectual pursuits.

Apart from the much quoted speeches of Jinnah in which he clearly outlines his desire to see Pakistan as a secular and progressive Muslim state, scholars have provided a number of other set of evidences as well capturing Jinnah’s mindset in this context.

For example, the Khilafat Movement that swung into being between 1919 and 1924 among the traditionalist Muslim activists of the subcontinent – as Mustapha Kamal went about dismantling the Ottoman Empire in Turkey labeling it as backwards and decadent – Jinnah is on record of being highly critical of the Khilafat Movement as well, describing it as a ‘false religious frenzy.’

According to Professor Aysha Jalal, Jinnah’s view of Islamic activism in the subcontinent was akin to him understanding it as a phenomenon that ‘derided the false and dangerous religious frenzy which had confused Indian politics, and the zealots who were harming the national cause.’

Jinnah’s death in 1949 and the internal infighting that his party, the Muslim League, suffered, reduced it from being a dynamic organisation of visionary action, into a rag-tag group of self-serving politicians who were in cahoots with a powerful bureaucracy and feudal interests. It became a pale and unimaginative reflection of its pre-independence past.

Gone too was the party’s ability to further define and, more so, bring into policy Jinnah’s secular-Muslim vision as the idea got increasingly muddled and out-voiced by the rising noise of the once anti-Pakistan Islamic forces who took the opportunity to start flexing their muscles in the face of a disintegrating Muslim League and the erosion of what its leader stood for.

The Jamat-i-Islami (JI) and the (now defunct) Islami Nizam Party went on a rampage in 1953 in Lahore, hungrily overseeing the country’s first major anti-Ahmadi riots.

Of course, by now the famous speech by Jinnah in which he underlined the idea of religious freedom in the new country was conveniently forgotten as the ruling elite grappled confusingly with the crises, first jailing and dishing out the death penalty to the main architect of the riots, JI’s founder, Abul Ala Maududdi, but then releasing him, and ultimately tamely capitulating to the demands of the handful of vocal Islamic leaders by officially declaring the country as an Islamic Republic in the 1956 Constitution.

It was classic ostrich behavior; the sort a number of Pakistani leaders continued to demonstrate whenever faced with the question of Pakistan and its relationship to Political Islam.

Misunderstanding Islamist activism as mere emotionalism that wont be able to sustain itself on a political level, and underestimating the Machiavellian traits of Islamic political organisations, the ruling elite gave the Islamists a hollow bone to play with, without bothering to explain to the rest of the people exactly what did an Islamic state or an Islamic Republic really meant in the Pakistani context.

Just when the military dictatorship of Field Martial Ayub Khan had begun its accent towards a peak, the Jamat-i-Islami brought back the question about Pakistan’s ideology in 1962.

By then the ruling establishment had been confident of burying the Islamist irritant with the 1956 proclamation, which, obviously meant nothing more than a change of name, as the matters of the state and the government continued to be handled in an overwhelmingly secular manner, especially by the pro-West Ayub Khan dictatorship.

But by now the military had also become overtly conscious about the supposed problems the diversified polity and milieu of Pakistan could create for the federation and homogenous institutions such as the Army.

Pakistan, quite like India, was not an ethnically and religiously homogenous entity, and it consisted of various distinct ethnicities, Islamic sects and sub-sects, apart from having its share of ‘minorities.’

The economic, cultural and political cleavages that began developing between various ethnicities – especially due to a lack of democratic representation of these varied peoples in the corridors of power – were attempted to be fixed and filled by the military and the state through the imposition of the ‘one unit’ system – an idea in which Pakistan was treated as a single unit of homogenous Muslims and a place where there was no room for provinces based on ethnic credentials.

The state seems to have naively undermined and underestimated the power and the hold the concept of ethnic identity had in the region – a hold, which in India, comparatively speaking, was more successfully addressed through democracy and democratic institutions that helped varied ethnicities have a stake in the affairs of the government and the state.

As the state cringed at the pro-democracy movement of the late 1960s that was searching for a Pakistan run on democratic lines and which, in turn, would give a vote and a voice to various ethnicities, the state suddenly turned towards its former nemesis, the Islamists.

The Yahya Khan dictatorship that replaced the fallen Ayub Khan regime, was the first in the country to start patronising leading Islamic parties in an attempt to thwart the largely left-leaning pro-democracy movement spearheaded by overtly secular leaders such as the Pakistan Peoples Party’s Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, National Awami Party’s Moullana Bhashani and Wali Khan, Awami League’s Mujibur Rheman, politicians like Asghar Khan, and leftist student parties such as the National Students Federation (NSF).

As far as the military was concerned democracy meant the disintegration of Pakistan; and more so, they saw democracy as a danger that would neutralise American and capitalist support that the military enjoyed, marginalising the military in the matters of the government.

For the Islamists, democracy meant the emergence of ethnic and religious plurality that would encourage secular politics and policies and further undermine the notion of Islamcentric Pakistani nationhood.

On the eve of the 1970 elections, as the state (under the military) went about explaining to its American allies its sudden bend towards patronising forces peddling Political Islam as a way to frustrate ‘Soviet influence’ and the ‘spread of communism’ in Pakistan, the Islamic parties began their bit by decrying that (in the wake of the pro-democracy movement) ‘Islam was in danger.’

But the nation seemed to be in no mood to respond to the conservative alarmist messages coming from the military dictatorship and its new-found Islamic allies as the people voted with their feet for left-leaning secular parties such as the Awami League (in former East Pakistan), and the PPP and NAP in West Pakistan.

However, as the results of the elections stood out to prove the inherent distrust a diverse Pakistan had for what the military establishment and the Islamic parties were defining as ‘Pakistan’s ideology’ and the ‘one unit,’ the consequence of the damage the two convolutions had already caused emerged in the shape of Civil War and cries of independence in former East Pakistan. In December 1971, East Pakistan violently broke away from the rest of the country to become Bangladesh.

Conveniently, the humiliated military and Islamic parties and pro-establishment politicians who had all been squarely defeated in the 1970 elections, put the blame on the purveyors of democracy who had risen in revolt against military dictatorship and the one unit system in the late 1960s.

Ironically, though the incoming PPP government led by the popular Z. A. Bhutto remained populist and secular, Bhutto couldn’t escape the question about Pakistan’s ideology that now seemed to have gained a lot more urgency in the face of the breakup of the country.

Staring the new government in the face was a disenchanted population and a disgraced Army. But Bhutto was clever to use a vital scapegoat to turn things around. His populist and socialist rhetoric was now punctuated with verbal attacks on India which had supported the Bengali nationalist movement. The Bhutto regime then gathered a number of (otherwise anti-Bhutto) conservative scholars and historians to turn his anti-India rhetoric into a common historical narrative in which India became the enemy behind most, if not all, political and economic ills befalling Pakistan. This episode has in it the seeds of what would grow into the rampant culture of denial and conspiracy theories in Pakistan.

The flammable narrative then eschewed provincialism as well, as Bhutto went after Pushtun and Baloch nationalists, blaming India and the Soviet Union for what was simply the result of Bhutto’s own rising autocracy.

The narrative was adopted even by Bhutto’s staunchest opponents, especially the religious parties, who eventually galvanised a largely secular body of people into believing that the ills Pakistan was facing were due to ‘secularism,’ and the ‘betrayal of Pakistan’s ideology’ (Islam).

As General Ziaul Haq stumped the politicians by imposing Martial Law (1977) and bagged the Jamat-i-Islami to flaunt his rule as being ‘Islamic,’ the narrative spun out of the confines of text books and spontaneous speeches and took a whole new meaning with the emergence of Pakistan as a frontline state in America’s proxy war against the Soviet Union on the scorched grounds of Afghanistan. This was also the time that the state and its media literally turned the image of Jinnah on its head by making him spout unsubstantiated Islamist pearls!

The 1980s and the so-called anti-Soviet Afghan jihad is colored with deep nostalgic strokes by the Islamists and the military in Pakistan. Forgetting that the Afghans would have remained being nothing more than a defeated group of rag-tag militants without the millions of dollars worth of aid and weapons that the Americans provided, and Zia could not have survived even the first MRD movement in 1981 had it not been due to the unflinching support that he received from America and Saudi Arabia, Pakistani intelligence agencies and its Afghan and Arab militant allies were convinced that it was them alone who toppled the Soviet Union.

The above belief began looking more and more like a grave delusion by the time the Afghan mujahideen factions went to war against one another in the early 1990s and Pakistan was engulfed with serious sectarian and ethnic strife. But the post-1971 narrative that had now started to seep into the press and in many people’s minds, desperately attempted to drown out conflicting points of views about the Afghan war by once again blaming the usual suspects: democracy, secularism and India.

Many years and follies later, and in the midst of unprecedented violence being perpetrated in the name of Islam, Pakistanis today stand more confused and flabbergasted than ever before.

The seeds of the ideological schizophrenia that the 1956 proclamation of Pakistan being an ‘Islamic Republic’ sowed, have now grown into a chaotic and bloody tree that only bares delusions and denials as fruit.

As conservative parties, Islamic groups and reactionary journalists continue to use the flimsy and synthetic post-1971 historical narrative to consciously bury the harrowing truth behind the destruction and the chaos the so-called ‘ideology of Pakistan’ has managed to create within and outside Pakistan, a whole generation is growing up absorbing the narrative wholesale.

Whereas state-sanctioned history text books did the trick in this respect in the 1970s, and the state-owned media and the conservative press galvanised Pakistanis towards this narrative in the 1980s, today, just as the military and the state of Pakistan is searching for a suitable ground to tackle the ideological and physical monsters their own follies have unleashed, a whole new generation of post-90s young men and women and electronic media pundits have taken upon themselves to look for the answers. Unfortunately, the answers are being looked for in the old convoluted narrative of the ‘ideology of Pakistan’ which, ironically, is the source of the problem.

This schizophrenia is apparent in the military itself. On the one hand, as an institution, the Army seems to have come to terms with the importance of plurality and democracy as ways to harmoniously deal with the ethnic and sectarian diversity that is Pakistan; it has also realised the folly of turning a blind eye to Islamist organisations, believing they will be ‘helpful in Kashmir and Afghanistan.’

But since the Pakistan Army’s entire motivation revolves around a conflict with India (Islam vs. Hinduism), it has been tough for senior officers to justify to their men a war being fought with remorseless men who incidentally also call themselves Muslims.

Even though, General Pervez Kiyani has done well to finally make his men find a good reason to fight the monsters, but if one listens to the many characters who these days appear on private TV channels and conservative newspapers, one can at least partially understand what is the new narrative that is emerging to motivate the Pakistani state’s war with the Islamists.

If these always combusting characters on the mini-screen are to be believed, then even though Pakistan is facing the scrooge of extremism and related terrorism, the extremists and terrorists are ‘being sponsored and funded by enemies of Pakistan (i.e. India and Israel).’

So is it true that the same old India (and ‘Zionists’) bogy is being built into the emerging narrative as well to infuse the right amount of motivation into the troops and the nation in the fight against extremism which in reality is very much an internal demon? Perhaps. But more alarming however is, that if state follies in this respect ended up creating big monsters in the shape of extremist organisations, then the new added-on narrative being peddled so enthusiastically by colourful chameleons on popular TV is bound to generate a generation of young Pakistanis which – ironically in the ‘age of information’ – may be the most conditioned and reactionary culmination of young people to grace the social landscape of the country, passionately divorced from any reality that may compromise this generation’s new-found mirage and misconceptions about the ‘ideology of Pakistan’ and Islam.

Little monsters are what we have in hand – a lucrative market for TV channels, and a weapon for the Islamists in their ongoing social and cultural war against ‘liberals.’

Nadeem F. Paracha is a cultural critic and senior columnist for Dawn Newspaper

Hi Guys,

Anyone watching the matches? I am sure Javed Khan must have been watching them live.

Wonderful win for Pakistan and wonderful win for India.

Asif has match haul of 9 wickets, how well he could have served Pakistan cricket had he not lost all that time, but anyway at least he got a chance to comeback and contribute to team win.

Asif/Amer bowling and Akmal brothers batting has been the mainstay of Pakistan win, not just this match in the previous match too. Rest were just there for the journey. Maulana Yousuf contributed to 2nd innings score, so good for him.

Great win for India, setup terrifically by Sehwag with his blazing 293, interesting to note that both wins for India were helped by pace bowlers taking 5 wicket hauls, Sreesanth in Kanpur and Zaheer in Mumbai, when most people would have though spinner would have dominated, spinners from both side did not shine that well.

India go up #1 in Test ranking, staying there is going to be a problem, but still a wonderful achievement since it’s not easy to get there.

Overall a good week of Test cricket.

Congratulations to Pakistan for convincingly winning the Test !!

Mohammed Asif was the Man of the Match and rightly so, having taken 9 wickets including a 5 wicket haul in the second innings.

Javed Khan,

You are right in post 356, but you have to see this as a fault of the state of Pakistan who has used them for the sake of ideology because the problem starts with the constitution and the ideology. They have been indoctrinated and used rather than being educated. For instance, if you look at the educated Khans in the cities, especially, India– they are one of the most intellectual and educated-minded people. But the state of Pakistan has manipulated history and ideology and for that reason this may come back to haunt them, as is happening. The problem is “political religion”, as when politics with religion is intertwined, inevitably both are corrupted.

If you can comprehend, how the Malaysians or Indonesians would feel as they are Muslims too– that Pakistanis or Taliban act as if they own the religion and do all sorts of things in its name, and stain their reputation worldwide…In fact Pakistani Muslims can learn a lot from them, if you go to an Indonesian Mosque– as here in the US– you will realize that there is no Mullah. When the time for prayer comes, anyone of the people has come to pray goes on to do the recitations. In fact if you are standing there among them, they’d ask you to go and carry the jamat, each and every person asks the other to go ahead and carry the jamat. This is very much unlike the Saudis and Pakistanis which create the Mullah and his authority. That is why they are succesful as a people– because they don’t intertwine politics with it like Pakistanis or the Saudis do. They are very scholarly people yet they don’t take the mike and start making speeches, they don’t try to analyze you, whether you drink alchohol or this or that, and they don’t pretend like they know everything and can preach, when they know a lot more than the average Pakistani Mullah does.

When you go to a Pakistani mosque here (and I don’t want to brag I go often, I go like once a year), they take the loudspeaker and make full use of it here. They give speeches as though an army is about to invade the other. In fact when I came to know the Maulvi, I realized what a bigoted person he was– both the maulvis, one senior and junior, were in a state of perfect competition to take over the reigns of the mosque and the good money and the free food that comes along with it. In fact the junior one was telling me from behind that the senior one doesn’t know much, he was the one who knew more, and– he kept on throwing a new story-Islamic– time and again. And, then, he himself said, that people ask me, where do these come from, and he replies to them by saying that, why don’t they go and find them– that he is a scholar, not a nokar. He was a hilarious generally and some of the statements he was making about the infidels and this and that were unfortunate. And, this Maulvi, has much more influence, who is a totally uneducated person to begin with, than you do or any other intellectuals in Pakistan– this is the scourge of political religion.

But, in Pakistan’s case, it may be too late now to reverse the processs. Only time will tell what happens.

Umer Akmal & Mohammed Aamir …

The brilliant duo of young-guns, Umer Akmal and Mohammed Aamir, should be handled with extreme care and Coach and the PCB Management should try to hone them well for future of Pakistan Cricket. Obviously, Pakistan have abundance of raw talent, but it’s not everyday that we find potentially good players of this caliber.

Both are exceptionally gifted and they have oodles of natural talent, certainly no denying that. But, unfortunately, both are too young to handle fame and age is not on their side.

Sometime back there was a news that Aamir and Ajmal had misbehaved with Younis Khan as they both boasted and compared themselves to Wasim Akram and Saqlain Mushtaq respectively, whereas Umker Akmal was considered to be part of the conspiracy to raise concerns against his Captain.

Following this, Ajmal could not impress in the first Test and is deservingly sitting out of the second match as Kaneria has proved to be a better bowler in Tests version atleast. While Mohammed Aamir, in spite of bowler-friendly pitches, did not contribute much in the bowling department. Aamir was our best bowler among the likes of Razzaq, Rana Naveed, and Rao Iftiknar but with the coming back of Mohammed Asif and Kaneria, Aamir have become second best. Umer Akmal had been so consistent with his batting and is surely one of our top batsmen. However, he needs to take more responsibility and should not be allowed to be overconfident. I am hinting to Umer Akmal’s 52 runs in the second innings which came off only 33 balls at a strike rate of over 157. Was there a genuine need of this rowdy show of batting ? That too when his Captain was playing much soberly at the other end ? Absolutely no. Yousuf pointed in his post match presentation that he would have liked Umer to play with more responsibility. But I think like Javed Khan mentioned that Yousuf have become a ‘Bakree’, rather he always was a ‘Bakree’ (docile).

Aamir and Umer need to keep their feet on the ground in these early days of their careers. Team management should also try to keep this newly found celebrity status from going to their heads and concentrate on their performances. Pakistan Cricket can not afford to let them being wasted following the footsteps of Shoaib Actor.

Congratulations to team India and supporters on beating the Lankans and gaining the NO 1 test spot.

Pakistan has also levelled the series with a healthy victory. Asif way to go. Surely he is on track for man of the series award with 17 wickets in just 2 tests.
If I remember correctly this is the first Pakistani test victory since LS has been around. Therefore, it’s a cause for celebration as I don’t think Pakistan has won a test match in two years.

I wonder how YK is feeling…………

Khansahab …

Fawad Alam is not playing which is unfortunate, but even more regrettable is that Shoaib Malik is still in the playing elevens. I agree with you that Shoaib doesn’t qualify to play specially now that he is not even bowling and as it is his batting is totally useless and nothing to talk about.

Having said this, Misbah is back in the team not because of Fawad Alam’s failing in the first Test, but mainly because Younis Khan opted out of the New Zealand tour. Moreover, Misbah have recently (after being dropped for NZ tour) scored some unbeaten century, followed by career best score of 284 runs in domestic cricket. By mentioning this I am not trying to justify Misbah’s return or proving him a better player then Fawad, but we all know that if Younis Khan was playing, no one would have called Misbah back. You were right, above, Misbah did drop a lollypop catch, but I think there was no harm in playing slow (strike rate of around 35) as this second Test was finished easily on the four day. IMO, the problem with our batters is that they all play too fast (T20 format) and do not have the temperament and patience of playing long innings (see Umer Akmal), whereas the Tests format demands playing slow at times.

Coming back to Fawad Alam, well even Fawad is not a very quick scorer and he needs time before he settles down, which is fine in Tests. Regarding the Fawad’s batting position, actually after Pakistan’s defeat in the first Tests you have suggested that Fawad should be allowed to open the innings (replacing either Manzoor or Imran Farhat) in the second Test, whereas in your comment no. 328, you are contrastingly mentioning that “if Fawad was batting lower down he would have scored more”. It seems you want Fawad to play no matter whichever position Furthermore, Fawad did score that debut century playing as an opener, didn’t he? So what if he was made to play at top of the batting order in first Test.

I think, Fawad Alam should definitely play the third Test and he should replace only and only Shoaib Malik and not Misbah. I think Misbah may be considered better then Malik, while removing Malik and Misbah both, especially now that Younis Khan is also out, will weaken our batting line. Plus, Yousuf should also try to think out of the box and allow Fawad to bowl with his slow left arm spin which will give us an additional spinner option.

Shoaib Malik is definitely out of batting form, and moreover, Yousuf is not allowing him to bowl, whereas he is also useless as a fielder. Over and above this, Malik does not have a strong character and is a bad influence on the entire team, whereas Misbah in spite of not scoring runs and a mediocre fielder, at least have some seniority syndrome attached with his personality. Misbah, beside being educated, is also a much less ‘meesna’ and politician then Shoaib Malik, who is a ‘neela-thotha’ for the team.

In short what I want to say is that out of the two, Malik and Misbah, Misbah is comparingly better option then Malik, while removing them both when Younis Khan is not playing will also not be suitable. So what we are left with is to play Fawad Alam in place of Malik and also include Misbah.

Finally, just for the sake of discussion, imagine if Misbah scored some runs in the third Test and then Younis Khan is also back for the Australian tour, and provided Umer Akmal and Mohammed Yousuf are both playing anyway, who will we have to play in the middle order out of Fawad, Misbah, Malik and Younis ?

Munir sahab

You misunderstood me about Fawad Alam (or maybe I didn’t explain well). I did not mean to say he should be in the team no matter what. What I wanted to express was that if he was batting at Misbah’s position, he would have outscored Misbah. Misbah actually replaced Alam in this match- you can read all the reports saying that Misbah was brought in to replace Alam. So I wanted to say that Alam is a better player than Misbah, basically.

Yes, I do want Alam to play as an opener even though it is difficult, because if he can expend even half the effort as he did when he made that 168, he will do well as opener. But for that, this victimisation of him has to stop and he can’t be in the team on the basis that if he fails in 1 inning, he will be replaced by more mediocre players such as Misbah or Malik.

I agree Misbah is slightly better than Malik in Tests- maybe Malik is slightly better in ODI’s. However, Misbah is a player who loses his concentration after scoring 30, and hence he is not a long term prospect. He is on good terms with Punjab based PCB administrators and this is why he keeps coming back in the team. He is not bad as a batsman, like Malik is, but he is not good either and there are better players than him. Misbah is less of a politician than Malik, agreed, but Misbah did play politics against Younis Khan.

Pakistan won by a convincing margin, but have we really seen any improvement in the team? To me, nothing spectacular happened:

- As expected, Asaf and Aamer performed on a seaming track

- Malik made no contribution and dropped catches

- Misbah did not do enough to help the team, but just did enough to warrant selection for yet another Test

- The openers were not fabulous, but showed more promise than Manzoor

- No Fawad Alam

- Bond’s absence meant Misbah could score past 10, the openers could score past 20 and the team could score past 250 in the 1st innings. Not just that, it was a huge psychological advantage for Pakistan.

So it seems that the state of affairs have not really improved. There is no point glorifying this pace attack unless it also performs on pitches with less life. Similarly, there is no point in praising this team if Malik and Misbah form part of it.

The team is fine, except that Malik should be replaced by Alam and ideally Misbah should have been replaced by Younis, but in Younis’s absence Faisal Iqbal should replace Misbah.

Javed Khan,

I totally understand what you said in #356, I have an inclination of how small community laws work, note that I called them small community instead of using the cliched “tribal”. Small community could be a self governing tribe, a small village, or a small town. I have some inclination towards how small communities live, I grew up in one and in a different era, so I have an understanding.

Trouble is when the modern civilized laws are applied to these communities they don’t always match up, so the majority view prevails over these small communities. The majority wants them to change according to the modern living standards, and they believe it is the right way. I am not saying I agree with this view, I don’t, but just a fact that this is one problem. We need leaders in the modern society who understands these differences and leave them alone.

But I am not talking about the SWAT region of Pakistan, I am talking about Taliban, would you not agree that Taliban laws were atrocious?

Javed,

I also understand the blood feud system in these regions, especially Afghanistan where sons and fathers were killed, and it’s hard not to have the revenge mentality in mind. Especially when they don’t have anything else to look forward to in life. This is the hue problem in Afghanistan today, decades of foreign involvement from Soviets to Americans have left a bloody trail, now someone has to stay there longer and create an environment of friendship. It’s not easy for Americans or anyone else to do because of the obvious cultural and language difficulties.

Mohammad Munir,

I agree with you, Misbah is better than Malik.

If Pakistan have to make the team consistently better, they can also think of bringing Afridi in place of Malik. Since the openers aren’t any good anyway, they can just play makeshift openers in Alam and Akmal. This will allow Younis Khan to come in the team and give the team batting depth, and also more bowling cushion.

Alam
Kamran Akmal
Younis Khan
Joseph
Umar Akmal
Misbah
Afridi
Aamir
Abdul Rauf/Gul
Asif
Kaneria

Congats to all…..

If only those two “Akhroats” had not decided to skip the series!

We could have walked over N.Z. and enjoying the victories.