FAILING ACROSS THE BORDER……..

(Preity Zinta is the co owner of Kings XI Punjab whereas Katrina Kaif is supporting Bangalore and Delhi in this contest).

We have frequently discussed the poor performances of Pakistanis in the IPL on this site. However, there needs to be a thread totally dedicated to just why Pakistanis, generally considered as good Twenty20 players, cannot outshine their Indian, Australian, South African and Sri Lankan counterparts?

Let’s examine the statistics of Pakistani players. The much hyped Twenty20 specialist Misbah ul Haq has only managed 32 runs in 4 matches. Shahid Afridi has made 80 runs in 8 matches and has taken 7 wickets at an average of 26 and economy of 8. The Sialkot golden boy Shoaib Malik has scored 52 runs in 7 matches and has taken only 2 wickets at an average of 43 and economy of 10. Mohammad Asif has also been disappointing with 7 wickets at an average of 38 and economy of 9. Salman Butt has made 72 runs in 5 matches whereas Hafeez has only managed 54 runs in 7 matches and 2 wickets with an economy of 7 and average of 34. Only Sohail Tanvir has shone in this format so far, with 11 wickets at an average of 12, economy of 6 and strike rate of 13. Shahid Afridi’s bowling has also been decent with 7 wickets and a good economy rate of 8. Shoaib Akhtar cannot be discussed in the same vein as the rest as he has only played two matches although the initial signs have been encouraging.

Many people are blaming the captains of the respective teams for not giving Pakistani players enough chances. However this is loose talk as in Twenty20 you have to take chances right from the word go and as we all know fortune favours the brave. Yes luck has a lot to do with it and that is acceptable. We can say that Pakistani players may have been unlucky but sometimes you have to make your own luck and apply yourself. In terms of chances Salman Butt has opened in most of Kolkata’s matches so we can’t say he is coming lower down the order and has no chance of getting comfortable at the crease. The same argument applies to Hafeez who has also batted in the top order mostly. If anyone has been unlucky it is Shahid Afridi who needs to bat higher up as he is not clicking in the middle or lower order. Asif also has been given plenty of chances with the new ball so his fans can’t say Sehwag has been unfair to him. And our beloved captain Malik has come in those situations plenty of times where there are many balls left for him to build his score and play a good knock but he has not capitalised on those occasions and only has himself to blame.

Is this an indication of lack of quality? Most of these players featured in last year’s Twenty20 Cup where Pakistan reached the final and looked like a formidable unit. So that reason can be immediately discounted. Is it the hype and extravaganza of IPL? It could be, but all the players would be facing this hype and razzmatazz and we cannot limit this factor just to Pakistanis. It is the fit and seductive cheerleaders? No it cannot be even though Afridi thinks it might. You also have such liberally dressed spectators in Western countries where these players frequently tour. Is it the pressure of performing in front of Indian crowds? No it cannot be that either, as Pakistanis have performed admirably in India in the past, although much less so in the more recent past. Or is the fact that playing for a different team other than the team of your own country means lack of commitment or motivation? We have discussed this as a possible reason as well, but it would not justify why players like Warne, Watson, McGrath, McCullum or Jayasuria have fired in this League.

Regrettably it all boils down to lack of overall application and commitment. This poor show in IPL epitomises the problems currently being faced by the PCB and the Pakistani team. It seems as long as the players are getting the remuneration for playing, nothing else matters and no problems or criticisms can be worked upon. It seems that now for these Pakistani players, winning is not really the top priority and there seems to be an absence of having the determination and fire within yourself to go the extra mile and seek new heights for yourself and your country, a feeling that was a major cause for the greatness of Pakistani legends like Wasim, Waqar, Imran Khan and Miandad.

So it’s now up to you, the visitors of Legslip, to discuss why the Pakistani players can’t perform. If you agree with this thread, do say “I am agree”, and if you don’t agree then feel free to say “I am agree naat”.

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  1. #1 by khansahab on May 18, 2008 - 11:15 AM

    Salman Butt has made a few runs but his batting is too slow. He also batted the same way in the last match where he made 48 odd.

  2. #2 by khansahab on May 18, 2008 - 12:23 PM

    Good knock by Salman, finally he has performed and hopefully we will see more knocks like this in the future.

  3. #3 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 18, 2008 - 1:07 PM

    Coming to the last few remaining matches, I get a feeling that the IPL is getting a bit of a drag now, there isn’t much to say or add anything new and even for the journalists there isn’t anything to write home about except to talk about a few usual rumours or to talk about sidekicks and distractions.

    I think this thread is good for a few Pakistani supporters to talk about the performance of their countrymen in view of the comments made by the avatar of this thread. And, an opportunity for the Indian die hard fans to bash the Pakistanis for their poor and pathetic performance so far.

    Its just today i.e., a few hours ago Salman Butt has fired some Butt shots to be the top scorer 72 in 54 balls and no one was there to support him except for Das for a short period of time. Hafeez as usual has disappointed everyone. To me he is absolutely a mediocre player, both in terms of his batting and bowling. He should have been in the ICL team. I would have prefered Imran Nazir or Imran Farhat in the IPL teams to open for their team. They would have been much more exciting players to watch.

    In any case 149 or 150 to win is not difficult for the team batting second. Shoaib cannot fire on all his 4 cylinders without using his trubo boost 😉 I think today’s match belong to the construction workers. I don’t know if anyone would agree with me on this comment. The yellow outfit of the Chennai “Supper” Kings is somewhat similar to the Australian outfit but I don’t like their “Yellow Helmets.” It reminds me of the “Yellow Hard Hat” worn by the construction workers.

    Kolkata Night Riders batting is very vulnerable and in fact it is their weakness. They were depending too much on Hussey and in the last two innings he went for a duck. Had Salman Butt not performed well they would have been out for another 60 or 70 runs. Ganguly too cannot be expected to score in every single match he plays. Besides, T20 is all about chance and luck. Apart from a few well known big guns like Gilly, Symonds, McCullum, JayaSuriya who have shown sporadic brilliance. The likes of Gambhir, Sehwag and Rohit Sharma a few more local lads have played and scored better than all the Pakistani players.

    Talking about T20’s unpredictable nature, who would have thought Balaji and Mishra would take hat-ricks? Who would have thought Yuvraj Singh the hero who hit six sixes in a row will fail in almost every single match he has played and yet his team is among the top four. Who would have thought that Shane Warne’s team would be the best and the first to qualify for the semis? Such is the unpredictable nature of T20 that bookies are making hundreds of millions.

    I am not watching the current match where Chennai are already 55-0 in 8 overs and almost 35% of the target has already been achieved without a loss. Both Flemings and Patel are playing comfortably. I hope the next match between Deccan and Mumbai Indians must be more interesting than this. In the previous match between these two teams Gilly thrashed them and toyed their bowling at will. Can he do that again? It would be asking too much. Then the onus should be on Shahid Afridi and Herschelle Gibbs.

  4. #4 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 18, 2008 - 1:33 PM

    In Punjabi there is an expression:

    “Danda Wigrian tigrian da” Any good expression when translated from the original language looses its charm, still for some readers who don’t understand Punjabi, I’ll make an attempt to translate it in Urdu, “Danda bigraon ko bhee sudhaar deta hai” Or, “One can control and correct the brats by using a stick.” In other words too much carrot and no stick spoils the brat. “Spare the rod and spoil the child.” are other versions But, what can one do when dealing with adults rogues? You give them a ‘nip in the bud.’

    Here is a very interesting link from “The News” on Shane Warne, Shane Watson and Graeme Gibbs that translates that Punjabi expression:

    http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=113312

    The bottom line is money speaks!

  5. #5 by khansahab on May 18, 2008 - 5:26 PM

    I said in the thread that Afridi has been unlucky this tournament. In one match he played an OK shot but was caught brilliantly by Steyn and this match Thornely has taken a good catch to dismiss him.

    At least he’s not hitting straight into the fielders’ hands.

    Venugopal Rao is a bit like Misbah for Pakistan, he comes in impossible situations, plays brilliantly and there is always the chance that he might rescue the team from the jaws of defeat. But just when you think there is a chance he might lead the team to victory something untoward happens and the team loses.

  6. #6 by Awas on May 18, 2008 - 9:07 PM

    Very interesting, thoughtful and detailed analyses, by the writer of this thread of how Pakistani players have fared in this tournament. Some lovely pictures too ;)-

    Other than a couple of outstanding bowling performances their overall performance, especially the batting, has been uninspiring. Batting has never been Pakistan’s strong point lately anyway, so no surprises there.

    In today’s matches, I did see Butta’s innings. Not a bad innings after all in the overall context of his team’s batting performance as he is not such a dasher as Afridi or Imran Nazir amongst the Pak players. After that I didn’t get to see any of that match and none at all of the Deccans match.

    For the first time Afridi got his own way to open the innings but luck deserted him. He proved his worth as a better bowler once again. How he has been handled by his captains, especially Laxman has been uninspiring. Astute and experienced captains like Shane Warne and Ganguly used Tanvir and Actor well when they were on song. Warne let Tanvir bowl 3 overs on the trot when he was in rhythm and ended up with 6 wickets in that particular match. That record, by the way, may remain intact for a very long time. Ganguly similarly used Shoaib well to give him three overs uninterrupted and he ended up with four wickets in that match. In one match, I remember, Laxman gave Afridi one over at a time interruptedly, he took wickets in each of his first two overs but then lost the rhythm completely. So, captaincy has lot to do with how you marshal your troops. Only a few captains have such ability.

    As Javed A Khan said and we have expressed before as well, the tournament is becoming a drag, no doubt. There are still another two weeks to go and some of the teams just seem to be going through the motions with many dead games coming.

  7. #7 by khansahab on May 18, 2008 - 10:21 PM

    Abdul,

    You asked for a new thread so this is a new thread for you. Now write something!!!

    🙂

  8. #8 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 19, 2008 - 5:04 AM

    Khansahab

    Like theossa said, when you are out of form tou luck bhee sath nahee deti. Its happening with almost all the Pakistani players. Especially Afridi’s batting woes continue. I agree that he was caught brilliantly by Thornely and previously by Styen. But, he should wait for a few balls before trying to hit out the first ball for a six. The reason for him to hit out the first ball for a six was perhaps he saw Gilly got two lives in the very first over, first an inside edge that went a few centimeters away from the stumps, then he was dropped two balls later.

    Afridi bowled brilliantly today. In his first 15 balls he gave only 4 runs and took 2 wickets. He should have continued to bowl all his 4 overs because during that time only 24 runs were scored in 5 overs. If you remember in the first two overs Jayasuriya hammered the fast bowlers had scored 30 runs. From an average of 15 runs per over the average dropped to under 5 runs per over when Afridi started to bowl from the 6th over.

    Gilly is not a creative and aggressive captain, he is more emotional and when it comes to using his resources he is influenced by his former captain Laxman and team coach Robin Singh and use defensive tactics.

    Robin Singh is such an idiot that he blab something very stupid on the TV when he was asked by the commentators while sitting in the dugout to comment on team performance and Shahid Afridi’s bowling, he said, ” yes, we consider him only as a bowler and his batting if he performs well is an additional bonus. But, by sending him up the order we have seen that he gets out cheaply and put the other players under pressure.”

    This was not a dressing room conversation that a coach blabs out like this, he was heard by hundred of millions of people all over the world. By criticizing your own players on TV with such negative comments you are not motivating your troops. It also doesn’t leave a good impression about the coach’s professionalism and his own skills.

    I know that Sehwag cannot be compared with Afridi, but, Sehwag got out first ball duck twice. Tendulkar was out on a duck by Akhtar. Yes, Afridi has been out of form in batting but, his bowling and fielding is immaculate. The catch he took to dismiss Robin Uthapatak was superb. So, stop judging him from his batting perspective only. He got out Tendulkar and Thornley within a space of 12 balls.

    Talking of performance, today Grieg Chappell was saying, Robin Uthapatha should stop playing for the crowd and focus on his game. He has been bowing at the crowd after taking every single catch, he has got this fancy Mohawk style haircut and wear those designer sunglasses, he better focus on game and change his attitude.

    How true, me too, I thought of the same thing that his repeated bowing at the crowd is a bit too much, if you overdo it, there is no fun anymore, and when you do that people also want you to perform well with the bat. His performance in these IPL matches is very lackluster. He is there in the team because he is a local player and the very fact that Mumbai team has won 6 consecutive matches and he is good at buttering the captain and the important players.

    Bravo’s absence might be felt by the Mumbai Indians, but his replacement Andre Nel is not bad either. He is a competitive bowler, like Ntini has charged up at the right time, Nel can also do the same. So, other teams should not consider that Mumbai has lost Bravo so they are half the strength now. If they continue to win the remaining matches, they will be on top of the table.

    I would throw a wind of caution on Jayasuriya’s batting, because he peaked up a bit too early and may not perform well in key matches and that would be devastating as a lot is expected from him.

  9. #9 by Mansoor Tirmizi on May 19, 2008 - 1:30 PM

    Our players are still much more superior than others as far talent is concerned. But they have never been led properly for their grooming after Javed Miandad. some last years of Pakistan’s cricket has clear shown that only Javed Miandad’s brain and his scientific approach is needed. This act is the only thing that can help Pakistan regain the amount and level of required and needed confidence blended with wisdom and scientific approach. We have some players like Hafeez and Shoaib Malik who have wisdom but don’t have the needed courage to execute properly. On the other hand we have Shahid Afridi and Shoaib Akhtar who have confidence and courage but lack in proper and systematic thinking. I think, once again miandad should be given responsibility with great amount of authority and veto power.

  10. #10 by theossa on May 19, 2008 - 3:15 PM

    Good move to make an official thread about dismal perfromance of Paksitani players in IPL because unofficially we were already discussing this. My only surprise so far is the lack of performance by Misbah who I think is a master Twenty20 performer. Afridi was struggling with batting pior to his debut in IPL, Asif is no Twenty20 material and was also coming of a long break, Gul was also coming of an injury, Salman Butt is gaining form lately, Tanvir has been performing well, Malik is underperforming, and the rest are not worth mentioning. Our best players of the national team are Yousuf and Younis and both are not playing IPL. We always refer to Waqar, Wasim, Imran, Miandad etc. but a team get players of that calibre like one in decades. If Yousuf and Younis depart, what will be the state of our national team? Reality is, there is lack of match winning quality players in our team, and if there are some players they are very inconsistent. I don’t buy the notion that we are “very talented”, if we are talented then why it doesn’t show? I believe in, “you are what your record shows”. We can talk all day about lack of cricket facilities, non existence of domestic system, lack of promotion of cricket at school and college level, Politics and lack of cricket governance etc etc. But the affairs of cricket are just a reflection of overall governance of our country. The best we could do in the current situation is to focus on creating a good bowling attack with the available talent, which amazingly germinates against all the odds. We have Asif, Gul, Tanvir, Afridi, and we can work on new talents like Sohail Khan and Wahab Riaz, which can make our bowling a formidable force. Batting will remain a worry as it always has been but we can do well with a quality bowling attack and a medicore batting.

    Now back to the IPL and current match between Loroos and Delhi, here’s my prediction, Delhi wins, and Loroos will remain Loroos like Hyderabad Dhukkans.

  11. #11 by theossa on May 19, 2008 - 4:12 PM

    Misbah Just answered the call, 47 off 25 balls, a very good effort under the conditions. 154 is a fighting total but Loroos need to get rid of Delhi openers in first 5 overs to have a real chance. Chow

  12. #12 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 19, 2008 - 4:32 PM

    LOL @ Dhukkans

    Using Sehwag’s folly to give the last over to Rajat Bhatia instead of PIDGE, Misbah played the last over to his advantage scoring 24 in one over. But, 154 to defend is not a good total especially when Gambhir and Sehwag are on full cry. Definitely this is the best opening pair in this tournament. Jayasuriya and whoever or Gilly with anyone are not consistent. But, these two are very consistent and play conventional cricket.

  13. #13 by theossa on May 19, 2008 - 4:37 PM

    Yeah Jeved, these Delhi openers are bowler molesters, 60 in 6 overs with no loss and the show continues.

  14. #14 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 19, 2008 - 4:51 PM

    And who is being molested? Styen, Kallis, Zaheer and Praveen Kumar, they nearly made a record 100 in seven overs and Sehwag could have made the fastest 50 of IPL. But, Sehwag’s catch was beautifully chipped in my Chiply who was horizontal in the air when he held that catch in the point/gully region. theossa check out email.

  15. #15 by Hanumanth Rao on May 19, 2008 - 5:04 PM

    you guyz r doin fine in covering ipl its very interesting to see the enthusiasm among the cricket fans all over the globe. i used to write on mukul’s blog but since he’s gone the other guy is not so good i find u guys more interesting than others as you allow peeps to write other than cricket and this is the reason I want to comment here. my fav team is Delhi Daredevils and i want them to win so that they reach the semis. gauty has been marvelous thru out and 500 plus runs in this tournament is the hightest invidiual total. the hot gals are kewl although i like preity zinta but ‘coz she is punjab’s owner i dont like to see her face. but the other gals on your blog is a selection of good taste and funny comments too it is indeed a good idea to have them on a cricket blog as it represents the ipl culture. good luck felas.

  16. #16 by theossa on May 19, 2008 - 5:51 PM

    Rao

    Congratulations on yet another win by Delhi. Delhi has good bowling attack and you add a couple of destructive in-form openers to it and that leaves no reason why they shouldn’t make it to the finals. The only question is, whether the openers will continue this form or whether this team can perform when the openers are removed early. We’ll have to wait for that until then smile.

  17. #17 by Awas on May 19, 2008 - 5:57 PM

    Some good comments have been made which are worth pointing out. First the new comers:

    Mansoor Tirmizi

    Welcome aboard. You made some good observation. On “Javed Miandad’s brain and his scientific approach is needed” is a very valid point. I do also agree when you said “we have Shahid Afridi and Shoaib Akhtar who have confidence and courage but lack in proper and systematic thinking”. Keep posting.

    Hanumanth Rao

    I like what you said. It’s really good to have Indian perspective here. You may be right…Lagta hai ‘Dill (Dilli) walley lay jain gey’. But my predictions have been worse than Theossa ;)- So I would say no more. I agree that Gauty especially and Sehwag too have been amazingly consistent. The best opening pair of all the teams no doubt.

    Keep posting my friend and good luck!

    Theossa

    You hit the nail on the head by saying “…if we are talented then why it doesn’t show? I believe in, “you are what your record shows”. That is so very true. Pak players have done reasonably well as far as bowling is concerned but batting…you have said it.

  18. #18 by theossa on May 19, 2008 - 7:07 PM

    Guys I’ll be on training in Philadelphia for a couple of days and I don’t anticipate any free time to comment on IPL so I’ll see you guys on Thursday. I know who will win though, opposite of any team Awas will pick.

    Munir, Hail the Gemini

    Hey, the Gemini month is starting from May 22. I just feel honored to be a Gemini as this zodiac star has people like you under its name. The other known people to me who belongs to this star are the Bollywood bombs Shilpa Shetty, Amrita Rao, and Celina Jaintley. Hollywood is even better, Johnny Depp (6 out of top10 Hollywood actresses said to have a secret crush on him), and my most favorite actor, in whom presence everyone feel sissy, yeah no one else but the mighty Clint Eastwood. The other Gemini people who I like include, John F Kennedy, Marlin Monroe, Ultimate Warrior, and yes Wasim Akram.

  19. #19 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 19, 2008 - 8:23 PM

    Go and get some good training theossa, Thursday is not too far away and you are right that you know the results of the IPL matches who will win etc. Regarding Gemini, Marilyn Monroe is dead, I am not interested but the other names are fine avec moi. 🙂

    Hanumant Rao good to know that you like the looks and diversity of LS especially the hot gals section. As you have rightly said, its the trend of the IPL to mix cricket with Bollywood gals, so we are simply reflecting what the true IPL is for our readers and not only just to see or read, but express their views, comments and suggestions. Please keep on the good work and comment regularly.

    You know what? We have constantly been getting some abusive comments from a desi suga daddie from La hore’s diamond market who is angry with us that we are not liberal and he has been pleading that in his diamond market he has better gems which are none other than his own family collection. Hence, we must choose at least one from his private collection. He has actually sent us the photograph of his Topaz and asked us if we like it then we must include it in the hot gals section! He is saying that she is a real patakha, but from the looks we all know she is a “phoota patakha.” Anyways, we will see if he insists too much then we might please her and that’s his ultimate pleasure i.e., if she is pleased by customers. His motto is, “customer satisfaction is our pleasure.” What else do you expect from a diamond market suga daddie?

  20. #20 by Awas on May 19, 2008 - 9:17 PM

    Theossa

    Thank you for rubbing it in…Einstein. IPL predictions are just like the theory of relativity after all with its own limitations ;)-

    Javed A Khan

    LOL @ “customer satisfaction is our pleasure”. But I hear that as that girgit’s ‘customers’ are non existent due to recession, as is quite evident from the comments on his site, the diamond dukaandar is filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy ;)- What do you expect from him now other than this nonsense?

  21. #21 by Javed A. Khan on May 19, 2008 - 10:57 PM

    Awas

    You got me wrong, I am not talking about his customers, for him our bloggers and we are his customers. I know for sure that he has no one there, he posts his comments under different names like Monsieur Beans and get excited after seeing them. Anyways, I don’t want to discuss that rubbish man.

    On your comment about theory of relativity and its limitation, all I can say in a different context is, its a matter of recognizing the limitations of libido theory in conceptualizing the war neurosis and cross-cultural variations, which Abram Kardiner talked about and him being one of the first major critiques of libido theory has a point to prove.

    The libido theory as Kardiner believed, was a case of the instinctual tail wagging the adaptational dog. He applied his knowledge of the impact on development of trauma and specific cultural configurations to the study of the effect on blacks of institutionalized white racism.

    You see, if you ask any Indian or a foreign player who is playing for the IPL or who has some hope of playing for them, he would say that it is a great experience and great entertainment that’s because he is doing the same instinctual tail wagging in front of HIs Master’s Voice. How dare can one raise a voice against his Master and still hope to be a part of that glamour, glitz and hoopla of the IPL, and also expect to get paid? Only a Sardar can do such a thing called “Slap gate” and loose $875,000 in a second. I need some Indian input here – please ! 🙂

  22. #22 by khansahab on May 20, 2008 - 8:35 AM

    There you go, Mohammad Asif is injured again!

  23. #23 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 20, 2008 - 2:34 PM

    khansahab

    what do you mean by there you go, Mohammad Asif is injured again? Don’t we all know that he is the King of IPL (Injury Prone List) players ?

    I think I have mentioned a week or so ago after seeing him bowling with a contraption that he is now trying to make it look like an excuse for not taking wickets or for being thrashed like a mediocre bowler. If the injury is that serious why the EFF do you have to play? From his elbow to his duck web, he has problems, and mind you this is not the first time.

    Asif has done this so many times and so has Khaliba Ibn-ul-waqt Janab Show-aib Actor Saheb R.A. that is, when they are not fully fit, they still say they are and what kinda fitness tests are conducted and by whom that these idiots pass those fitness tests. Remember DNA had approved Shoaib’s fitness and sent him on his own accord to join the team in SA and then he got injured after taking 4 wickets and had a row with Bob Woolmer?

    The problem with Asif is he doesn’t seem to have the physique or muscles that a fast bowler must possess, he appears to be too weak. And, it is exactly the opposite for Khalifa. He is over-weight and has too many muscles (even in his brain, I guess?) 🙂 as regards match fitness he is only fit for 2 overs at a stretch.

    Time and again the PCB has sent both of them for treatment to Australia, England and SA spent hundreds and thousands of dollars on them. But, what have they given back to the team? Apart from individual sporadic brilliance for their own image and most of the time they have brought disgrace and disrespect for other players and for the nation in general. Shoaib in particular has remained in media limelight whether he did any good or bad, he felt proud that he is at the centre of all the media attention. Thats what he wants and nothing else ( I mean other than money and his favourite hobbies).

    Asif should be out for a year or two like Umar Gul was sidelined till he was not only fit, but test match fit. The fitness test should be done like the US marines undergo a fitness test, where they have to go through rigorous exercises and run at least 10 k.m. a day with a 10 k.g. backpack on their back. Likewise, these players should be asked to make 50 rounds per day in the stadiums and if they stop they should be chased by the dogs, so that they keep on running.

    Its a shame to see them “haanping & kaanping” and then huffing and Khalifa puffing inhalers after bowling 2 overs. If you Ask Actor to bowl 6 overs at 140 kph without a shorter run up and without a slower delivery in it, then he will say OK keep an ambulance and the stretcher ready. And the paramedics must be Riya Sen and Padukone etc.

  24. #24 by Awas on May 20, 2008 - 3:10 PM

    Hafeez is again out for 4. He is such a mediocre player and how he played for Pakistan let alone IPL is quite inexplicable.

    Come on Butta…do it again!!!

    Javed, yeah, Asif is just so Nazuk. He wasn’t fully fit anyway to begin with but the IPL money was on his mind so how could he say no. It’s difficult to say no to mega bucks anyway. People usually bend over backwards to get that kind of money. The only one capable of saying no is Younis Khan…but then again he is an enigma.

  25. #25 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 20, 2008 - 3:35 PM

    Yes, Awas you are right about Hafeez, he should be given a one way bus ticket to cross the Wagah Border.

    By the way how many overs Shoaib Akhtar has bowled in this IPL tournament? Not even ten I guess? And his knee (which went somewhere else) is not fit for bowling. What a shame for Pakistan to have such players in their team and now they are once again being exposed.

    In my opinion Shane Warne’s team will walk over with another win unless something drastic happens, which is very unlikely.

  26. #26 by Abdul on May 20, 2008 - 4:15 PM

    Khanshab thankyou for dedicating this thread for me it was very kind of u. Let me straight away say i’m 100% agree. The statistics above just reflect on how dissapointing the performances from the Pakistanis have been. Sohail Tanvir is and exception but from the rest they have failed in almost every encounter. I think one of the reasons for there downfall has to be the playing in a new team under a new leader. There also isn’t any Pakistani player captaining a side in the tournament and I feel this is not right.

    Pakistani players are always inconsistant and they are having a bad patch of it latel but now the ongoing IPL is finally coming to what shall be an entertainig climax. I say BRING ON THE SEMIS AND GET A GRIP U PAKISTANIS.

  27. #27 by Awas on May 20, 2008 - 4:59 PM

    That was fuuny…Tanvir c Butt b Gul….an all Pakistani dismissal …

  28. #28 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 21, 2008 - 10:14 AM

    Shoaib Malik should be happy because, as a 12th man he took 5 catches. So, in Pakistan team he must guarantee his place as a 12th man.

    Kamran Akmal should be happy that he is getting a paid vacation at the IPL.

    Younus Khan should be happy that he is not exposed and sidelined like other Pakistani players by not playing as a dummy player in the IPL tournament.

    Umar Gul should be happy because, his captain Ganguly said, “he did not miss Shoaib Akhtar after loosing the match against Rajhastan, he said: “Gul bowled well” and dismissed the idea that Shoaib Akhtar’s absence was felt.

    Misbah should feel happy that he is getting into good nick at the fag end of the IPL tournament. If he plays the way he played the last over in the last match, then he should be happy and content and be able to dismiss the notion people have that he is not a good finisher. 🙂

    As for Salman, Eden Gardens is a happy Butt hunting ground and he finally gyrated them with a big “Thumka.”

    Buttaa Show Actor is the happiest person among the Pakistani players who are playing for the IPL. Because, he finally made it to his home country Kolkata. He said, Kolkata is his home country and home ground! Then, he tried to explain who his franchisee and his employers are? He knows which side of the bread butt he needs to butter.

    And what else? He not only earned the lost $425K But DNA has dropped the multi-million dollar defamation law suit that he lodged earlier. So, the actor is rich again and, he is back in the showbiz once again.

    As soon as the IPL glitz is over, he should be moving from Kolkata (his first home) to Mumbai (his second home) and he should Shooting and banging his bouncers and yorkers at the bollywood beauties, where, not his knee but something else will get sore. Its another matter that his “knee-jerk” movements leaves his knee sore and makes him limp. But, he is still happy to be left alone as a jerk. Shouldn’t he be throwing his towel or kick the (cricket for good) bucket?

  29. #29 by Q on May 21, 2008 - 10:56 AM

    Actually its only been Hafeez and Malik who have not performed. Out of touch I guess though Malik did not get that many opportunities with the bat.

    Sohail Tanvi has been outstanding with the ball.

    Misbah did not play initially and then when he did Dravid used him at 3, which is not his batting position. Misbah always comes at 5-6 for Pak where he finishes the innings and the 1st time he got that chance he hit 47 of sthing like 19 balls…

    Afridi has consistently taken wickets. Those who r going to criticize his batting need to accept the fact that he is not a batsman.

    Butt has done well in the last few matches.

    So they’re doing alright, just how they do for Pakistan..

  30. #30 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 21, 2008 - 12:51 PM

    Q

    Those who are criticizing Afridi are doing that on the basis of jingoism only. We all know that he started his international career as a replacement for Mushy the Leggy. And he was called from the Caribbean U-19 where he was selected on the basis of a leg spinner. He was also known for his big hitting at the domestic circuit, hence he was sent at number 3 in that match where he scored 100/37 which still stands as the fastest ODI hundred. So, those who call him as an accomplished batsman are mere simpletons.

    About this on-going match Mumbai vs. Punjab. I guess Tendulkar as a captain was running out of ideas and lacking imagination and did not use his bowling resources well. The captaincy phobia was very obvious, because himself, he did not bowl and neither did he use the experience of Jayasuriya and his unknown young local bowlers were thrashed by Shaun Marsh and Luke-warm Pomersbach. I am very impressed by Shaun Marsh’s batting prowess, he has been very consistent and a treat to watch. I think he will definitely earn a place in the Australian XI.

    Jayasuriya may go wild but I doubt he would be able to persist long enough to give the Mumbians a platform to respond to that total of 190. Au contraire, Tendulkar has to prove a point by batting till the end, if he does that he would be saved from criticism for his poor captaincy. Keeping himself and Jayasuriya away from bowling was perhaps like throwing caution at the wind, he may have thought that the heat and humidity may drain him and Suriya and take away the energy that is required in batting. Thats a defensive technique and its not acceptable, especially in T20. Its rather foolish to spare the wicket taking spinners on the pretext that to conserve energy – neither of them are fast bowlers. Besides, if you restrict the opponents at a lower total then you have more chances than chasing a bigger total.

    Dwayne Bravo’s replacement is another Dwayne, the iron Smith and he is a very exploding batsman, if he gets going there is no stopping. So, lets see how this match unfolds, whether Suriya and Tendulkar takes advantage of the energy they conserved by not bowling or they crumble? Pathan has not been taking wickets lately and Sree is a one time trick pony.

    The biggest disappointment from Punjab is the captain Yuvraj Singh himself, apart from the one 57 he has been totally off-colour in this whole tournament. My 2 cents are on Punjab and I give an outside chance to Mumbai i.e., in case Suriya and Smith explode and tore the Punjab bowling attack.

  31. #31 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 22, 2008 - 12:33 AM

    Yuvraj’s run out on the second last ball not only turned the match in their favour, it also saved him from the blemishes of poor performance with his bat. In the final over the way Yuvraj fielded the shot on the penultimate ball of the last over, and instead of throwing it at the stumps, he ran a few steps and then dived full length to uproot all the stumps. It is undoubtedly the best ever run out dismissal that I have seen and that too, to win a match in a such style. Bravo! That was cool.

    phirwohi,

    I wanted Punjab XI to win this match against your home team Mumbai Indians who were getting a bit over confident and in my previous comments above, I have mentioned about Tendulkar’s captaincy and the lack of imagination he has as a captain, so you need to come back with an honest assessment in your comments.

    The other match was also a good one considering the Bangalooroos were dismissed cheaply for under 125, I thought this will be a piece of cake for Dhoni’s men. But, Dravid marshaled his troops well and turned the game 180 degrees in his favour. Although Misbah failed again after scoring 47 n.o. but the overall team performance of the looroos was good.

    I know you were busy as a SHAHBALA at your friend’s wedding but I guess its over by Monday unless you are planning to go with him on his honeymoon?

    theossa

    are you still on training? I hope you have seen these two matches of today. I am lucky to have a TV at work and being your own boss one can always have this privilege as opposed to “naokree.”

    Ps. Find this song from you tube for your WIFE: “Teri 2 takiyoun di naokree tay mera lakhaon da saawan jaye” and explain it to her what it means, perhaps the only bit she might understand in that song is the last bit which is, “ding dong ding dong ding dong…” 🙂

  32. #32 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 22, 2008 - 2:10 PM

    What is LUCK or being Lucky?

    Shoaib Malik may be LUCKY today to play for the Delhi Daredevils after being their 12th man for umpteenth time. Even if that happens i.e., if they select him in the playing XI do you think his LUCK may favour him the way he wants?

    He may not get a chance to bat or he may not get a chance to score if he comes to bat in the 18th or 19th over. He may not get a chance to bowl because others are bowling better than him, may be it will be a rain curtailed match as the Rain Gods are hovering over the Indian capital. So there are plenty of variables, from IF’s to But’s and there are many a slip between the cup and the lip. So, the question is “IF” he gets a chance, will he avail it to his advantage or fail it?

    Personally, I think It doesn’t matter how many times you fail. It doesn’t matter how many times you almost get it right. No one is going to know or care about your failures, and neither should you. All you have to do is learn from them and those around you because, all that matters in cricket is that you get it right once. Then everyone can tell you how lucky you are!

    Look at the other Shoaib Actor. He joined the IPL bandwagon halfway through and that too, after so many controversies and dramay bazi and in the first match he got 4 wickets which is good enough for him not only to earn his $425,000 match fees from the IPL, but also to talk about it for another 4 years. Now he is sitting out in the dugout holding his sparsely used “Gidday-Goday” and knee capped them to show it to the rest of the world that he is really injured and not acting.

  33. #33 by Awas on May 22, 2008 - 2:22 PM

    Malik Saab have left no impact on IPL whatsoever whereas all others have done something or the other at least, bar Hafeez who is a pretty innocuous player anyway.

    As far as Shoaib Actor is concerned when has he ever played a full series at any time in his career, apart from the first year perhaps? He visits Accidents and Emergencies wards more than dressing rooms. No one should really grieve his 5 year ban.

  34. #34 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 22, 2008 - 2:43 PM

    LOL Awas you are absolutely right in asking when has he ever played a full series? I don’t reckon any. Apart from the hospital wards, the Actor has also visited the bollywood studios may not have got a suitable role yet as they always offer him a villain’s role or a wrestler’s role and he feels very dejected because there is no “heroine” in it.

    And you have almost forgotten our poor little AKMAL who has gone into oblivion since he continued his great form with bat and gloves and must have realized by now that, this is my place – dugout.

    So, the Rain Gods have actually wept for Shoaib Actor? This is the second DD match that is going to be rain curtailed or may be a wash out – peut être ?

  35. #35 by Jehanzeb Khan Niazi on May 22, 2008 - 2:52 PM

    Come on guys Shoaib Akhtar is genuinely unfit and he is not making it or putting up an act as you guys think. The other day he was seen on TV wearing knee braces on both his knees, so there must be a reason. As far Malik he didn’t get enough chances but that is because of his own poor form in batting and bowling both. Like Javed Khan said its a matter of luck and being lucky. Today on cricinfo I saw Malik’s name in the playing eleven but rain will prevent him from playing. Kolkata Night Riders is the only team which has 4 Pakistanis in it and its a shame that Night Riders may not be able to make it to the semis?

  36. #36 by Hanumanth Rao on May 22, 2008 - 2:59 PM

    very rightly so these ipl matches are becoming a sort of drag and people are losing interest in it becoz of the lengthy tournament normally when the tournament is coming to an end there is more interest among the people whereas the exact opposite is happening. i may be considered as wrong from my other indian colleagues who are in india and supporting them, but those living in western countries are not paying much attention due to time difference and also it is clashing with the office hours and on weekends people have lot of things to do and when you have already missed the games in between there is not much interest left so in a way my friends and i are not watching it and on computer just now i saw its raining in delhi. so the match is either over finished or curtailed on DL method which is not good for a t20 game it is already short making it more short is like hongkong sixes which is a failure tournament. the only difference between that and ipl is this one is a bigger failure.

  37. #37 by theossa on May 22, 2008 - 3:18 PM

    LOL Javed, at the Sawan song. How about we label the pouring rain as “lakhon a sawan”? It will be true for “lakhon, karodon ka nuqsan sawan” and we’ll also get rotten tomatoes thrown at us by Kolkata and Delhi fans.

    Well, my personal opinion is Shoaib and Asif are “Injury prone” athletes. Some athletes have such a physical make up that they get injured more often than others. I don’t really think they’ll fake an injury. In U.S. they don’t get a lot of money and are subjected to what you call in Maths, the Probability Equations to get their worth.

    Well, had a boring training because it was more focused on theory and I like more mathematical or problem solving stuff. Imagine sitting there for 8 hours looking at slides and listening to the squeaky voice of the presenter. If it wasn’t for her big jugs, which I’m sure most of the class was more focused on, I would be snoring. I made like 750 bucks in two days by just doing that and everything from travel, food, and lodging was paid for. So my wife did not miss the “Sawan” and instead she prepared a nice dinner for me (and took my money). Naahh man, “noakree” is hardly a “noakree’ in a government job here. Just last Friday our District Executive was standing and waiting behind me while I was on the phone to deliver a drawing. Americans are very good folks, if you perform and excel in your job they treat you royal. Owning a business is the best thing if it runs well and you don’t get lots of head aches but it’s more of what you want in life. Besides plenty of women I always wanted to be an engineer. In DOT there are excellent benefits for you and your family and the best part is the retirement package; they pay you 87% of your last salary for the rest of your life. Talk about not being dependant on your kids and live a king life in Pak. I always picture myself sitting in a “Hojra” and listening to “Rabab” and smoking pot at the age of sixty. Who needs a haven?

  38. #38 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 22, 2008 - 4:13 PM

    theossa

    LOL @ your retirement plans. Talking of ‘Rabab’ I have a fantastic antique Rabab that I bought a few years ago in Gilgit i.e., when I was on a trip to Gilgit and Hunza valley. Its sitting there next to the fire place more like a decorative piece than a musical instrument.

    So you are a bureaucrat? Well, good luck to you then! LOL.

    You know I hate rain and snow here, but when I was in Dubai, whenever it used to rain we used to take our 4×4 out and go places. Even in Karachi going out in rain on a motor bike was fun. And, to be very honest, I really don’t know when Sawan comes or goes. I know spring and autumn and I prefer spring over autumn because spring brings hope and autumn brings gloom.

    Although the change of colour in the foliage during autumn is beautiful here, but thats only for a few days and then we have a long never ending winter. I used to enjoy outdoors in snow going skiing, snow fishing and tobogganing but not anymore, its very hard to convince friends to come out of their shell and going alone is no fun.

    I don’t think that Asif and Actor are feigning injuries right now like I have said above they are on the top of the IPL (injury prone list) players and why is that? Why is that only Pakistani fast bowlers are injured so often? Why not the Australians and West Indians? I think its more to do with diet and fitness levels which these people don’t care.

    Asif and Akhtar both are greedy blokes for money’s sake they said they are fit but its a shame they are unfit to bowl even 4 overs, imagine only 4 overs they can’t bowl ???

  39. #39 by phirwohi on May 22, 2008 - 5:31 PM

    Javed..no i am not the shahbala ( had to google that one.. but knew the moment i read it ..to be something funny 🙂 )…the thing that is keeping me busy is an internal transfer …its a handover to a complete novice…and winding up takes more time then i had previously imagined..

    awas..your post about actor never completing a full series being fully fit got me thinking..and i seriously cant recall any series wherein the fake actor played in all the matches..

    but asif looks like a much fitter guy..and when i see him bowl..i always wonder why he is not successful like other bowlers..hes got a good bowling action at decent speed..besides he is not always in the news like actor.

    the other fella whose dissappointed is umar gul..again a good bowler not performing well… i dont know whats distracting these guys..is it a lack of good leader or has the local board politics of pakistan taken its toll on the players? the pakistani team always had atleast one match winning bowler but currently apart from akthar ( who is match winning if he is fully fit..which sadly is like idd ka chand ) i cant see anyone else taking up that role. tanvir is good no doubt but still not like waqar or akram who could operate on dead flat wickets..

    as for mumbai performance..sadly the match started at 4pm my local time..and i was stuck at office..( normally they have two matches only on weekends ) it turned out to be a great match. and i was able to watch the last over . dad told me it was all tendulkars fault as his captainship was not good and he didnt let pollock bowl the last over. and when i did look at the details on the net even i felt pollock any day would have been better then nehra..but in todays news papers tendulkar has said he was aware of pollock having one over left but he had a stiff back and was in no position to bowl…
    but i have to say tendulkar is not captain material.hes a gem of a player to watch but no leader. watching the last over yest i did feel a few doubtful runouts should have favoured the batsmen..and tendulkar has also said so indirectly today..venting his ire on upmpre shastri..
    the public got to watch a great match..but would have been even more fun had there been a bowlout..
    i have to admit i dislike yuvraj…dont like his flashy behaviour..he has a tendency to score big in a series and then suddenly hes always in the news keeps failing to score pass idiotic comments in the press..he also comes across as being very arrogant and a man with a big ego…he can be indias supporting actor 😉 once in a blue moon performer.
    which is why tendulkar is very popular in india…he is adored by a billion..yet all the adulation never went into his head..still is having his feet firmly on ground..no scandals with filmstars ..no rude behaviour..no involvement in fights..no bar brawls..a simple man..middle class upbringings..good morals..and he is the only player i have seen who gets cheered even by the non-home crowd.didnt watch the chennai loorus match..but was surprised by the result..
    CURRENTLY I AM WONDERING WHAT MUST BE GOING THROUGH DRAVIDS MIND..could the members come up with what a person in a situation like dravids must be thinking?

  40. #40 by theossa on May 22, 2008 - 5:41 PM

    Javed, this issue of fitness is debatable. You gave the example of Australia and West Indies but many bowlers around the globe face fitness issues. ‘I am agree’ with your diet and proper physical training though. The reason could also be ‘gene’ which itself a vast topic to discuss. West Indies for example is traditionally an athlete haven; with all this poverty their athletes’ production is remarkable. Australia might have a good selection process keeping track of a bowler’s fitness history. It’s hard to tell why but England has been facing all kind of bowler injury issues recently. Awas and Khansahab may provide a good take on that.

    I won’t take side with Shoaib because of my bias against him for his attitude but Asif could be struggling with his fitness, bowling action, or reasons beyond his control. I remember Inzi made him bowl 10 overs straight in an ODI against SA so I won’t question his commitment. Gul has also been struggling with fitness issues May be this is an issue Coach Lawson needs to address.

    Yeah, tell me about the weather. It’s been crappy here for last two weeks, rain, rain, and more rain. We can’t go play tennis, any jogging or sun bathing either. I lived in Buffalo, New York for a couple of years and I know what you are talking about. I remember just 4 months of the year were nice and total sunny days were like 50, very depressing. I used to go Ellicottville for skiing but soon realized that it’s not my cup of tea. They did not have a long mild slope so all I could do was fall. I never tried ice fishing but sounds a good sport if you do indoor (small cabin) and in some company. I can’t imagine doing it outdoors.

    May be you should learn to play Rabab, we can have an exciting later age life, Awas can enjoy “Hoqqa”, Khansahab can puff his cigars, you play Rabab and poetry, while I prepare for my journey to hell because it sounds more exciting (I smell kababs).

  41. #41 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 22, 2008 - 5:46 PM

    Malik kay jaani dushman “Rain Gods” what a shame the whole match washed out due to rain.

    phirwohi

    “shahbala” means best man of the dulha. So, don’t worry so much I did not abuse you (yet) 😉 so you agree with me that Tendulkar is not captain material. I know there must be a reason not to use Shaun Pollock in the last over, but what I was talking about is during the middle overs he did not use Suriya or himself. Anyways, he paid a price for that and its too late for an old man to learn the traits of captaincy. And I agree about the rest you wrote about him.

    LOL awas that would be nice if Jlo announces her name like Mr. James Bund. Apart from Scottish accent I like the Yorkshire accent too especially the way Geoff Boycott speaks. As regards Scottish accent my sister’s kids they speak in that accent when they are talking among themselves its hard to catch up what they are talking about, but when they talk slowly its OK still you miss out a few words when they growl from their throat e.g. “pass me sum Ba’ Aa (butter) please” …. jaisay koi bakree dakaar lay rehi ho … Ba’ Aa…

    On Yuvraj, after the match he asked the crowd to cheer up the Punjab XI as well by saying, its OK you guys support your local team but in Punjab XI there are some boys who play for India’s national team. LOL at supporting actor. And I also saw Zinta commenting on cheering her team like SRK by saying I do but I am not like him. Of course you can’t be SRK but you sure are Mona Daaling of your team.

  42. #42 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 22, 2008 - 5:53 PM

    theossa

    not only kebabs but the likes of Marylin Monroe, Madhubala, Madhuri Dixit, they all will be there. Don’t know when Mad-Houri will die, but those who die at young age remains the same, so we can find Monroe and Madhubala for sure. This is called HOPE like Oscar Wilde says: We are all living in a gutter but some people are gazing at the stars and that is HOPE.

  43. #43 by phirwohi on May 22, 2008 - 6:02 PM

    Is that dada using sign language? ( i think what he wants to say is that the rain has hurt him more than the delhi devils )

  44. #44 by theossa on May 22, 2008 - 6:36 PM

    Well, you started off really well and you mentioned some hell queens and I felt ecstasy but soon you spoiled everything by this HOPE analogy. I bet people in havens will be peeping at hell for the ladies you mentioned and if things go my way they’ll be giving me lap dances while you guys would be stuck with see through ladies, LOL.

    Gotta go, I’ll catch you guys tomorrow for Punjab Cunts XI and Hyderabad Dhukkans. I’ll predict the winner tomorrow after examining what Awas had picked. Anyone cares to comment on Aus vs WI?

  45. #45 by Awas on May 22, 2008 - 10:00 PM

    Phirwohi

    It’s difficult to disagree with all of the points you made from fake actor and Asif to Gul and from Yuv and, Tendulkar to Dravid. Le’me tell you ‘phirwohi baatain’ on some of the names you mentioned.

    Tendulkar is one hell of a guy (my favouurite batsman). You may know this or may not…he is admired by many people in Pakistan too. The ones who don’t, out of jealousy, still look at him in awe nevertheless. This is just like Wasim Akram and Imran are admired in India and Sri Lanka alike. As you mentioned Tendulkar is “a gem of a player to watch but no leader”. The good thing about Tendulkar and Dravid is that they are gentlemen and such good role models that you can’t help admiring them. There are very few sportsmen like that.

    Lets forget them becoming captains…they just can’t be. Some people mention MoYo’s name that he deserves to be a captain of Pak team but in reality he hasn’t got what it takes to be a captain. Very few people are captaincy material anyway. The good ones that we have really seen were Imran Khan for Pakistan and Azharudin for India but then he got strayed a little but that’s another story. I am not talking about Imran here who is now getting in bed with Mullahs these days;)- As captains, Kapil Dev and Miandad are worth mentioning too.

    What you said about “arrogance of Yuvraj”, you mirror my thoughts too. I think he takes that trait from his Dad. Let me tell you what Yuvraj’s Dad once said. It was something like: To carry good genes into next generation, we may have to look for our son’s bride beyond a Desi girl and that Gorees might be better suited for such wonderful Genes that my boy has. Now WTF!!!

    Theossa

    LOL @ your hell raising. If that’s the picture you paint then count me in man. Am I allowed to take my Gaanja with my hooka there? ;)-

    Talking about“Injury prone” athletes, the situation in England is no better than in Pakistan. Simon Jones, Harmison and Vaughn are usually permanently injured. Hoggard and Flintoff are not less so.

    On your mention of WI “athletes’ production is remarkable”, all I can say is not only that they are much better at singing and dancing too. Why else do they always end up with a nice girl at the end in the night club otherwise?

  46. #46 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 22, 2008 - 10:35 PM

    phirwohi

    LOL @ the picture of DADA, but the sign language is not what you are saying, in fact he appears to be walking with a bat above his balls also, he is not looking satisfied or happy at all and behind him is Sehwag with a pathetic look on his face.

    theossa

    this one is a mini J’lo. Its Leah Dizon famous American born Japanese model

  47. #47 by Mohammed Munir on May 23, 2008 - 8:49 AM

    Had been a bit busy and could not contribute, but I was reading the comments regularly.

    Nice thread, yes our guys are actually “Failing Across The Border”, and its disappointment for us, the Pakistani fans. I hope they don’t fail where it matters the most 😉

    theossa …

    Thanks for the Gemini mail, you made my day 🙂

    Now that Gemini’s month have started, I am really feeling great to be star-MATE with the likes of Shilpa Shetty, Amrita Rao, and Celina Jaintley.

    Javed A. Khan …

    First and foremost, I think Shane Warne is also reading LS 😉

    Because it seems after reading your previous thread about his early retirement, Shanny boy wants to come out of his retirement. He recently said, if C.A. and Ricky Ponting wanted me to play for the forthcoming Ashes Series, I may play.

    Now that Kala-Katas are out of the IPL 😦 , I hope that “Mumbai Ambani’s” do not qualify for the semis. After the Kala-Katas, I am now supporting “Rajasthan Royals”, because Lalit Modi comes from Rajasthan and so they have the highest chance of winning 😉

    Secondly, the picture and youtube link of CBR Chairman made great insight into our elite bureaucratic league. However, we don’t want LS to go ‘off-air’ 😉

    Awas …

    Some nice inputs and good points made.

    Khan Sahab …

    Where are new Hot Gals’ pictures ? 😉

    Finally, it feels nice to see so many new faces around. This thread is going places.

  48. #48 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 23, 2008 - 9:49 AM

    Munir

    Its good to see your ‘back’ again with all your winks and smiley faces. theossa would have wished if it was JLo’s back. You must have heard about height of caution, have you?

    Height of Caution: “A crow flying over Pathan’s territory covers its ass with its wings.” They say that when Ian Fleming was filming “From Russia with Love,” James had to travel through Afghanistan but he refused because, he was told that they will be after James’ Bund.

    You being a banker must be throwing caution at the winds by being secretive and here is one on height of secrecy: “A blank business card.” Strange that we have too many bankers here, including phirwohi.

    phirwohi

    Pls. don’t be disappointed on Munir’s comments he said, he wants Mumbai Ambanis not to qualify for the semis, you may think of something positive and something new and creative, be more fashionable like they say, the height of fashion in Mumbai these days is to have a zipper in your dhoti. I hope I have not cracked Munir on this one? There is no malice intended on anyone, its just a pun. You are free to throw an akhroat back on me if you wish to, but it must be (with) a cracker.

    Munir, honestly speaking it didn’t occur to me to connect Shane Warne’s recent statement on playing one more Ashes series with our previous thread in which we wrote, “Shane Warne shouldn’t have retired.” May be great minds think alike, but I always say, “fools seldom disagree. I do remember saying that Gilly must have been reading theossa’s comments on using Afridi to open the innings but, nothing worked for the “Dhukkans” they are the same as the looroos.

    theossa I think you must have used the Dhukkan analogy for Deccan based on its location and meaning? In Hindi, Deccan is “Dakhin” means South (Uttar, Dakhin, Purab, Pachim) and if you look at the map of India, Deccan’s location is right on the dot where you placed the Dhukkan.

    So today is the Dhukkan Day in Mohali? And the name you gave for Punjab XI, I don’t know what was there on your mind (perhaps Zinta?) whatever it is, it must be a good contest today, unless it rains. The DC don’t play well on their own home ground for whatever reasons. But, Mohali pitch is a bit bouncy and its good for Gilly, Afridi and Yuvraj and they ALL are due for a big score. I want DC to play first and post a big total. At least there will be some entertainment for the crowd, they must have been bored seeing Zinta all the time?

    Our Ricky the Punter smashed 158 against the WI to get back into his fast gear. He was very severe and harsh on Dwayne Bravo. The other test match is between NZ and England i.e., if Rain permits wali baat hai. We too have received a lot of rain in the last 10 days or so and its cold, you can’t go out without a jacket. I must go and have my Chai – Paratha (the real one and not the Malaysian puff pastry wala) for breakfast.

  49. #49 by Mohammed Munir on May 23, 2008 - 11:05 AM

    Javed A. Khan …

    LOL @ James’ Bund.

    So you are happy to see my ‘back’.

    Yes I heard about the height of caution, and I also know that back home the crow in NWFP fly with one wing only, because the crow is either protecting his ass with his second wing or at times his second wing is in ‘Jane’s Bund’.

    By all these ‘lovely’ jokes, you have proved that you really are ‘khan’, and living in Canada for years have not changed the real Javed KHAN one bit 🙂

    So here is my akhroat to an akhroat 😉

    Phirwohi may be a banker, but he can not be a Pathan Banker 😉

    Oh yes about the ‘winks’ and ‘smileys’, why not have a few colourful icons and emotions allowed on this chat in a small ‘template/ window’ to select from, just like the ‘hotmail’ and many other sites, which allow you to use few signs to explain your ‘said’ and ‘unsaid’ words……… Khan Sahab, I hope you are listening to this 😉 😦 🙂

  50. #50 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 23, 2008 - 12:20 PM

    Munir

    Please don’t ask questions like that Hollywood’s dead actress whose pet sentence was, “Are you carrying a gun in your pocket or, are you simply happy to see me?”

    Its very strange that Punjabi’s often ask this question when they meet someone for the first time, “Aap Peechay say kahan say hain?” Or, when they want to tell you about their background they say: “Hum Peechay say Rajput hain” and I tell them, “accha zara ghoom ker dikhao? “ And that is taken as an offensive comment because, its coming from a Pathan, but I am a straight(forward) Pathan. Imagine if Pathans ask the same question ‘aap peechay say kahan say hain? ‘ The will say Pathans are so BLEEP, BLEEP.

  51. #51 by Mohammed Munir on May 23, 2008 - 1:16 PM

    Javed A. Khan …

    You are at your BLEEP BLEEP best today 😉

    You are also best when ‘provoked’ mildly 🙂

    I almost died laughing reading your last comments, Mr. straight(forward) Pathan. I guess almost all Pathans are actually straight(forward) …….. almost all 😉

    I can imagine a Pathan asking “aap pee-chay say kahan say hain?”, and then expecting a ‘thapar’ 😉

    Like one Makrani Balouch wanted to go to a toilet in a plane and he asked an airhostess, “Array Tumara Paishaab Karnay Ka Jaga Kidhar Hai, Hum Ko Uss Ka Undar Paishaab Karna Hai” 😉

  52. #52 by phirwohi on May 23, 2008 - 2:27 PM

    Lol @ all the Bund Jokes..but javed you got to tell me is it really true this fascination for the butt for pathans..or is it just a stereotype like we have for sardars and their supposed dumbness..

    Mee no pathan banker jee..but i come from an equally sar phira community called marathas/maharashtrian ( one maratha who loves the punjabi parathas )..salman khan is a half maratha/maharashtrian hence the deadly hothead..now if he were to marry a jat sikhni(again the hothead tribe..)..just wonder what the kid would turn out like.. 🙂

    arre munir kyo ro rahe ho? ( ro meaning cryin )..i know you support the ro- yals but they have already qualified..what have the “poor” ambanis done to you?..or are you scared of the drubbing you forsee from the mumbai indians?

    returning back to the bund..funny about the peechay say rajput jokes..do they mean to say former rulers( rajputs ) or ancestors from rajasthan? in north the kshatriyas also call themselves rajputs meaning the kings/rulers or the fighting class..history can be very interesting and phunny at times..

    awas yuvis father is also involved in a very famous murder case..and has lots of gunda-gardi to his name..he was also named in a report in a police station recently for some financial fraud..bahut pohaunchi hui cheez hai woh..

    and i second the demand for some more shabab on the hot gal pics list.. 🙂

  53. #53 by theossa on May 23, 2008 - 2:29 PM

    LOL Awas at describing success of WI at clubbing. Blame or praise the U.S. hip hop culture that being African descendent is COOL these days. I like African Americans folks, they are hilarious. I hope Obama wins here; it would be good for the Planet Earth. He has an intoxicating personality and is carrying young people like Pied Piper.

    Good to see Akhroat vs Akhroat. So I’ll jump in as Walnut and say this, “never turn your back on me”, literally.

    Javed, I stopped saying it but you have again predicted about the Dhukkans vs Cunt’s XI or should I say Zinta’s XI? (I know you have feelings for Zinta so I’m expecting hell from you)…..Good creativity by you to put some meaning to Dhakkans. Here is my prediction for the game, Dhukkans lose again. Why? Because they suck.

  54. #54 by phirwohi on May 23, 2008 - 2:42 PM

    theossa seeing the way they are playing i would rather say the dhukkans would suck at sucking as well 😉

  55. #55 by Mohammed Munir - Sharjah, UAE. on May 23, 2008 - 2:55 PM

    Dhakkans dropped Afridi … I hope they rot in hell today 🙂

    Phirwohi …

    Bhai Sahabm, as I mentioned earlier, I HATE Mumbai Ambians, firstly because they do not have any Paki players, and secondly they even do not have any Mian Bhai (Muslim Player) from within India.

    Ro-Yals are too good and can make anyone ‘Ro’ on their day.

    Hip Hip “Royaaaals” 😉

    theossa …

    LOL @ Akhrout Vs Akhrout (both are cracked too) 😉

  56. #56 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 23, 2008 - 3:14 PM

    phirwohi

    I must say that its a kinda myth about Pathans and Sardars but, its also partly true like the French say “Comme ci, comme ça,” meaning ‘this way or that way’ or like the Arabs say: “nus-nus” meaning half n’ half. There must be some truth in it “Maa Adukh Bidoon Naar” (no smoke without fire) if a few Sardars have done something then the Pathans must also have done something. But, both races are very brave and Zindadil. They take the pun and give it back, “aagay hee nahee peechay say: 🙂

    As far as I know most Punjabis refer to the background that relates them to Maharaja Ranjit Singh the Ruler of Punjab during the late 17th and early 18th century and was known as the Sher-e-Punjab his tomb is in Lahore and those who remained in Lahore and embraced Islam still find their roots and take pride in it.

    As regards the Kshatriya in Hindi or kṣatriya in Sanskrit, which means power, aur usko bhee agar peechay say dekho tou you will find roots from the old Persian ksahatiya to the new Persian Sah and then it became Shah or the King. Yeah, history is interesting if you really delve deeper to the origins or roots.

    The Dhukkans are without Afridi today and Gibbsy has to score otherwise his big match fees paid by them would be a total waste. So, lets see whether they are capable of putting the Dhukkan on Yuvy’s bund and Zinta’s Bleep.

  57. #57 by theossa on May 23, 2008 - 3:43 PM

    Him-again, Gilly is playing well today but by looking at the history of Dhukkans, I can tell you that someone will choke and they’ll loose again. Don’t you have a feeling that Yuvy is about due to deliver that baby?

    Oh, did you know Jeans was invented by Pathans?

  58. #58 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 23, 2008 - 3:50 PM

    phirwohi

    I forgot to answer your question regarding “fascination.” You must have heard of Moin Akhtar the famous Pakistani comedian, have you? He was once narrating on his show “Loose Talk” how the Satellite Dish is changing the language and culture in Pakistan. First he starts with kids, then wives and then grandparents.

    He said: “Once a mother started yelling at her son for something silly has done the moment he came home from the school she charged at him and the kid tells her: “Maa, ek tou aaj mera Janam Din hai doosray mai abhee, abhee school say aya hoon aur aatay hee tum mera bara accha Swagat ker rehi ho Maa.”

    Second one: “A husband calls his wife BEGUM, BEGUM for about 3 – 4 times, she was in the kitchen and comes to him after doing whatever she was doing and tells him, shanti say pukaro aur yae kya BEGUM, BEGUM? He asks her aur kaisay pukaroon? She smiles aur sharma ker kehti hai kaho, “TULSI yahan aao.” The husband gets mad and tells her, hamaray Khan Daan may …..” wife interrupts him and says: its not Khandaan it is Kaan Daan.

    About Grand parents, he said: When all the family members go to sleep Daada Daadi (grandfather and grandmother) watch some Swedish Channels around 2:00 a.m. and, once I woke up I saw them sitting on a love-seat sofa and watching something on the TV and it looked like two mountains stuck together. Suddenly one of the mountains moved and then I realized what it is. So, I asked Dada, what is this and what are you watching? Dada replied, beta yae hamara pichla hai. Aur jin logon ko pichlay ka nahee pata unko aagay ka kuch samajh nahee aata!

    So, my dear same again (phirwohi) the fascination is not just among us but, it is widespread. Tumhay sirf yae pata hai kay tum Marhatay ho magar peechay ka tumko pata nahee! Loag “Vanday Matrum” tou kehtay hain laikin Shivaji kay peechay kya thaa vo kisi ko nahee pata. 🙂

    If the Dhukkans don’t make 180 plus they can’t win this match.

  59. #59 by theossa on May 23, 2008 - 5:00 PM

    Dhukkans of Hyderabad’s ass are popped open by Sangakkra and Marsh. Afridi says, “It’s a pleasing sight and Gilly can have my middle finger as well”.

  60. #60 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 23, 2008 - 6:27 PM

    LOL @ middle finger. Actually he could have even posted his fist to treat his Anorectal fistula. It’s Robin Singh who decides and selects the team along with Gilly & Laxman. I think it was a big mistake they made by dropping Afridi, it was their bowling thats been lacking throughout this tournament, they don’t have a good fast bowling attack. This pitch was good for spinners and all 4 wickets were taken by the spinners, even Chaminda Vass in his pitch report said its excellent for the legspinners. The Punjab guys too had 2 spinners in their team and Dhukkans dropped their only vital leggy.

  61. #61 by theossa on May 23, 2008 - 6:46 PM

    Javed, Robin Singh sounds like a complete idiot; I still don’t understand why Hyderabad never looked a threatening team with all those batting weapons? What I can think of is that players were never utilized properly so they could not gel together, too many changes and completely dumb ones. So who produced this expensive pile of shit? Rotten Singh comes to mind.

    Gotta go, it’s warm and sunny outside and I’m feeling jiggy. Have a nice weekend Amigos.

  62. #62 by phirwohi on May 24, 2008 - 2:54 AM

    munir man all mia players of mumbai taken by others ..zaheer munaf..even ( non mia )agarkar in kalkata..but i think musvir khote our konkan wala is playing for mumbai..so there is a mia..dunno if ambani had pitched for the pak players though..

    lol javed didnt know people watched that tulsi crap in pakistan as well..women !! i guess are the same everywhere..give them rona dhona..and they lap it up.. and for shivaji..i think it was aurangzab who was behind..then at times he was ahead and shivaji behind..bhaut pakda pakdi kheli un dono ne..

  63. #63 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 24, 2008 - 3:45 AM

    phirwohi

    Actually Aurangzeb may not have even seen Shivaji in real, it was his small battalions and garrisons with whom shivaji played that pakda pakdi khel in the mountains of western ghats and konkan coasts. According to the modern history of India, he is declared as the hero who defeated the Moghuls but the reality is he was unable to defeat any of Aurangzeb’s generals when they were sent with a big army division to curb the uprising.

    The fights between him and Afzal Khan and later with Shaista Khan where he reportedly inflicted minor injuries to them like scratching Afzal Khan’s face with a tiger claw and chopping off 3 fingers of Shaista Khan in his own palace are simply stories written by historians of the modern era. The fact is Pune was Shivaji’s Fort Knox and Pune was captured and seized by Shaista Khan’s army and Shaista Khan set up his house in Shivaji’s Lal Mahal and stayed there for years. Hamri na mano Sipayiya say poocho …. jisnay …..

    The irony is, history has always been twisted and rewritten by the historians and they re-wrote it according to the time and tide. First it was the history text books and now the information age its been done at a very large scale on the Internet. On Wiki anyone can register and change the facts, even you and I can do that. The fact is Shivaji never ruled or lived in one place, he was always running and hiding in the mountains like Osama Bin Ladin. Tomorrow some blokes might write the heroics of Osama that, the huge modern army of the US could not defeat the Bin Ladens.

    Today, we don’t even know whether Osama is alive or dead long ago, because he was smoked in the mountains of Afghanistan years ago. But, one thing is for sure Shivaji the Chhatrapati died of “Intestinal Anthrax.” O’ my God, the Moghuls used Anthrax to get rid of him? LOL.

    Listen, I am not against him per se, but its a fact that his stories have been exaggerated and over hyped by historians and made him an immortal hero by the Maratha historians and the Bal Thackery group of today. Those who haven’t read other history books in Persian and Urdu will obviously believe what is written in the history text books of India or on the Wiki. There are always two sides of a coin unfortunately the other side is not shown to the people of India. Mais, c’est la vie. 🙂

  64. #64 by Mohammed Munir on May 24, 2008 - 6:14 AM

    After a thorough write-up on JaNe’s Bund and the ‘Pechhwara’ theory, it made equally intresting reading with a lecture on ‘HIS-STOREY’, way to go Bhai Sahab 😉

    While on the IPL, the Dhakkans remaned the Dhakkans.

    Now Bang-Loroos are not only ahead of Dhakkans at no. 7 with 3 wins, but their cheergirls are the only one who are still not ready to cover-up, no matter what 🙂

    Forget about the IPL, but good going on personal front Mr. Vijay Mallya 😉

  65. #65 by Awas on May 24, 2008 - 9:40 AM

    Phirwohi/Javed

    It is natural for both sides to show their heroes in good light. My Moghul history is very basic but the fact is what is taught in Pakistan about that history is different to what is taught in India. Akbar the Great, for example, is shown in different light in both countries but considered great nevertheless amongst the emperors.

    Natural bias exists not only in day-to-day life but undoubtedly in history too. Some time ago I was watching a documentary on Richard the Lion Heart and Saladin (as they spell Sallah-u-Din Ayubi in English). What was said was that although they were great adversaries and both won wars against each other and they both respected each other but Lion Heart was not the title he deserved as he was very cruel to his subjects in Jerusalem. In one example they said, once when he defeated Saladin and retook Jerusalem, he beheaded many Muslim men. And when Saladin regained Jerusalem again, Richard feared that he would do the same in revenge but couldn’t believe when Saladin declared pardon for all. That was one great act of Saladin that Richard never forgot. Whatever the case, Richard is still considered a lion heart in the West.

  66. #66 by Awas on May 24, 2008 - 12:21 PM

    Very entertaining knocks by Smith and Akmal. I enjoyed that. Royals are doing so well even in dead rubber. Bravo Shane Warne.

  67. #67 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 24, 2008 - 1:01 PM

    Awas

    The point that I was trying to make about historians twisting, distorting and re-writing history and hiding the truth or presenting their side of the story is a fact. But, then there are a few who present the facts to the people and here is an example that I am quoting from The Guardian, its an article on history, written by Karen Armstrong who is a devout Christian, a former Catholic Nun.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2006/sep/18/religion.catholicism

    The above link takes to one of her articles written a couple of years ago when Pope Benedict talked about Prophet Mohammad and she came very strongly against the Pope and the Christians and wrote these facts, here is an excerpt from that article.

    “Our Islamophobia dates back to the time of the Crusades, and is entwined with our chronic anti-semitism. Some of the first Crusaders began their journey to the Holy Land by massacring the Jewish communities along the Rhine valley; the Crusaders ended their campaign in 1099 by slaughtering some 30,000 Muslims and Jews in Jerusalem. It is always difficult to forgive people we know we have wronged. Thenceforth Jews and Muslims became the shadow-self of Christendom, the mirror image of everything that we hoped we were not – or feared that we were.”

    I wonder who will respond to this? But, I am sure there will be a lot of silent readers with no comments.

    Back to cricket, the Chennai guys are giving a befitting reply to that huge total especially Suresh Raina. Good to see Akmal chirping behind the stumps once again and that too in his squeaky voice “WAYRY WAIL BOLD WARNEY” that was his last call, LOL, Akmal is a character. The wicket is very easy to score runs so the match could very well go down to the wire, since Dhoni is still to come.

  68. #68 by Awas on May 24, 2008 - 1:15 PM

    Javed

    Yeah, quite right. Richard’s wars were just one aspect of Crusades that was in my example. I will look at the link later. I am just going to the barber for my Hajaamat.

  69. #69 by phirwohi on May 24, 2008 - 1:52 PM

    there mr butter fingers has missed a stumping..wonder if it will be a costly one..but he batted well today..

    Javed that comment about aurangzeb behind shivaji was made in jest..ofcourse it was always the generals who fought the war..n not the other way round..wouldnt want to go into the topic in detail which you raised cause i feel this is not the forum to dwell into history( kyo ke history is a serious business )..but i got to say i am impressed with your knowledge of history ( even though i got to say you got some major things wrong in your post ).
    Just because i am from maharashtra and mumbai dosent make me a fan of Bal thackeray..also tommorrow if osama swears by jinnah that wouldnt make jinna a lesser person? an overhpyed personality by the jehadi groups? ( thackeray was only once inpower that too with partnership with someone else)

    One dose not have the necessity to read history books persian urdu or indian to understand the greatness of a man who without a single fort to his name when he started as a teen boy and went on to rule most of western and central and south india..as well as causing headache for northern mogul empire..and i am very well aware of the ( “dakkhan ka chua” history which one gets to read via the other side ) hence it came as no surprise to me when you stated about him always shifting..and trust me i wouldnt have felt angry even if you had chosen to use that deccan ka chua title…cause frankly thats the history taught on the other side of the border…even gandhi for that matter is highly disrespected by hardline hindus as being very sympathetic towards muslims and is slandered by those guys…but that dosent make him a lesser person..it only makes me feel for the kids of those hardliners who unfortunately will be raised up with false stories..But thank GOD for internet..one click and one gets to know comments from learned historians..references..circumstantial evidences etc..

    Dont know what book told you about pune being Shivajis fort knox but just to inform you my learned friend his capital was Raigad fort in Konkan ..he died peacefully around 1680 of old age..and Pune was the FortKnox for the peshwas around 1750-1850 when the Brahmin Peshwas had taken over the rule..
    ..Wikipedia is never a forum to seriously study history..( i am agree )

    Ok enough of history before other members start send me on a ride through bund country of afganistan ( a la siberia for capitalists ) as punishment for diverting from cricket ( but could we have an ongoing general page for any other discussions )

    Think dhoni has a chance to win here…

  70. #70 by Rehan Khan on May 24, 2008 - 1:58 PM

    Did anyone see Munaf giving “behen waali gaali” to the fielder?

  71. #71 by phirwohi on May 24, 2008 - 2:09 PM

    Awas..what you said i forgot to add is absolutely right..totally agree..History is always different for different people ..one cannot escape that fact..unfortunately people get stuck up in past history and spoil the present.

  72. #72 by phirwohi on May 24, 2008 - 2:13 PM

    Rehan..cant believe what you just posted..i think i missed watching it..but munaf is known as the gentle giant..you sure you lip read him right? he might be sloppy with his fielding but always been a well behaved fella..

  73. #73 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 24, 2008 - 2:31 PM

    Rehan Khan

    That is Munna Bhai Patel’s “Takiya Kalaam” and this is not the first time, he used the swear word many times. May be he addresses his dad or mum in the same manner. He was telling that to Kohli to use his brain when fielding in the deep. He bowled a juicy full toss to AB Morkel who smashed him for a six and he was unhappy at the fielder.

    Also, twice he was seen standing far away from the wicket like a spectator when the fielder – after brilliantly stopping the ball and throwing back to the bowler – Once, when Yousuf Pathan fielded and threw the ball in one action, instead of standing behind the stumps to collect the ball and whip the bales off, he was expecting a direct throw to hit the stumps. The second time when Shane Warne threw the ball at him hoping he would collect it and whip the bales, instead he was seen complaining at his captain but without a gali. Munaf Patel is a headstrong idiot. He is seen laughing and smiling only when he get wickets and seen abusing the fielders when he is whacked around.

    phirwohi

    there is no harm in digressing from the subject, neither we have a character limit here, so feel free to express yourself. I didn’t say I am all knowing when it comes to history. First of all Shivaji had a fort in Pune too called “Lal Mahal” which was seized by Shaista Khan and he lived there as long as he was posted by Aurangzeb. Secondly, its not “Deccan Ka Chuha” but “Pahari Chuha” and thirdly, its not what is taught across the border. Across the border they don’t teach the History of India in schools for whatever stupid reasons. So, the new generation does not know anything about any one. Perhaps their only source is from bollywood and they imagine Akbar was just like “Thirakta Roshan daan.” I’ve always said that Hithrik could suit well for the role of “Tarzan Ka Beta.”

    Whatever little knowledge of history that I have is what I have heard from my parents and grandparents and also we do have some good books and this Deccan Ka Chuha or Paharee Chuha title is not from across the border its found in the pre-partition history books which are rare to find them now.

    Yeah the butter-finger donkey missed a simple stumping chance but, he did that second time, by then Prithiv Patel had added 13 runs to his score and 30 in partnership. But, Tanvir bowled superbly to get that “Burble Cab.”

    Its Tendulkar and Jayasuriya on the ground now and McGrath is charging-in. So laterzzzzz.

  74. #74 by Mohammed Munir on May 24, 2008 - 3:26 PM

    Good to see Akmal performing for a change. He performed only because his S was online today. I suggest PCB should take a heed from IPL and try to build up their bench-strength. Our current Pakistani players take their positions in the team as granted and are never worried of any heat up their S.

    Once they know that there is someone behind their ‘back’, they will start performing at their best, literally 😉

    Khan Sahab … Hope all is in well 😉

    Awas … Have a happy Hajaamat.

  75. #75 by Rehan Khan on May 24, 2008 - 3:38 PM

    phirwohi,

    Yes i saw munaf say that word a few times. javed khan has confirmed my suspicion. it was disappointing to see him abuse his fellow player like that but it happens with some players.

    Sohail Tanvir has become the leading run wicket taker in IPL. I think Pakistan has discovered a great talent. His last yorker reminded me of Wasim and Waqar.

  76. #76 by Awas on May 24, 2008 - 4:03 PM

    Phirwohi

    Firstly, I am quite impressed with your knowledge of history and secondly and even more impressively, your perspective on reality and not to dwell into the past is admirable and very agreeable.

    Munaf never came across to me either as a type you associate with Bhajji or that ‘Bandar’ Sreesanth. He is usually well behaved but then again ‘Gaali Galoch’ is not a big thing amongst school kids let alone sportsmen. Anyway, I never saw the incidence.

    Now as we are talking about, history, cricket, and Gaalis in the same breadth let me tell you an interesting incident from the annals of cricketing history.

    England player Douglas Jardine complained that one of the Australian players called him a bastard. Australian captain Bill Woodford turns to his team, points to Jardine and asked “Which one of you bastards called this bastard a bastard?”

    Phirwohi, this bit of history is definitely true, as I was there as you can see from my beard ;)-

    I wonder if Mr Smiley likes my joke???

  77. #77 by khansahab on May 24, 2008 - 4:25 PM

    Rehan Khan,

    Yes Sohail seems to be a good find. He needs to maintain this form and has to ensure that the popularity does not sink into his head inasmuch as losing his focus and commitment to the team and the nation.

    Mohammad Munir,

    Thanks for your wishes and constant support. It does mean a lot to me personally as well as to the entire Legslip management. Unfortunately my current work shift (12 noon to 8pm) does not allow for adequate spare time to comment and discuss. I tend to write to a reasonable extent only on days off from work. I may have expounded this previously so please accept my apologies if you are already cognizant of my commitments.

    You are spot on when you mention that our Pakistani players take their positions for granted. And when there is an issue of questioning their commitment they become moody and confrontational. Take the examples of Abdul Razzaq and Imran Farhat for instance. Razzaq has been a brilliant player for Pakistan but he only has himself to blame for his omission from the squad. Similarly Mohammad Sami who is still one of the fittest and most disciplined cricketers around also lacks commitment which led to his removal from the team.

    I am on a hunt for some “hot gals” pics which I intend to add to the site shortly. 🙂

    Theossa,

    Your comments as always have been a pleasure to read. I agree with you that it is quite puzzling how a team like the Chargers with Twenty20 champions like Afridi, Gilchrist, Symonds and Styris could not manage to seek a formidable reputation in this League. I believe captaincy and coaching are to blame and lack of having a gameplan. I also think that, whereas this team had plenty of big hitters which can be an advantage, most of such players also are the types who play on instinct and tend not to follow a particular gameplan. Hence perhaps the Chargers have been victims of their own “expertise” or “trump cards”, if you like.

    Phirwohi, Javed A Khan and Awas,

    Interesting comments by all of you regarding history. History is definitely always changed according to the mindset and biases of historians. It is strange how natural biases can twist facts and present a tainted picture of a famous personality. The examples of Gandhi and Jinnah come to mind instantly. In Pakistan, Gandhi is taught in schools as someone who opposed Partition of British India (which is true) which has probably led many Pakistanis to hold a grudge against him, for he was opposed to the idea of a separate homeland for people who now make up the area called “Pakistan”. However, the fact that Gandhi was a champion of democracy, secularism and equal rights for Muslims is something that is infrequently alluded to. Similarly in India Jinnah is taught in schools as something of a villain, for giving realisation to the movement that broke India into two parts.

    The facts obviously are, that Gandhi although opposed to Partition was considerate of Muslims and believed that Hindu and Muslim could live side by side in one country and prosper. His pro Muslim sentiments verily caused his assassination by a Hindu fanatic. Jinnah on the other hand, fought relentlessly for a separate homeland for Muslims, not because he hated Hindus or the ideology that the land which was British India is “divine” for Hindus, but because he envisaged, along with millions others at that time, that it would not be possible for Hindu and Muslims to live in peace together. Without shedding too many of my natural biases on the issue, I believe in the course of human events (and with reference to copious accounts in history) the right of self determination for a people is paramount and inalienable, has been paramount and inalienable and should be paramount and inalienable. For this reason amongst others I believe Jinnah should not be hated by Indians. In the same vein Pakistanis should respect and tolerate the teachings and ideology of Gandhi, Nehru and other leaders.

  78. #78 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 24, 2008 - 6:14 PM

    phirwohi

    sorry your team got booted out by the Daredevils and now they need to win 2 out of 2 to stay in contention. I am not against Munaf Patel but I have seen him swearing that BC word quiet a few times also, whenever he took a wicket after being hit for a four or a six he abused the player by yelling “eff off.” Never mind they all do. But, the best of all is from Nehra which I have it on a DVD. It was India Pakistan series, before Afridi’s 100/45 in Kanpur it was that Ahmedabad match in which Inzi won the match on the last ball of Tendulkar.

    The war was between Nehra and Afridi, he bowled a slightly wide ball which was left alone by Afridi and Nehra asked him to hit, Afridi ignored his comment, the next ball he tried to hit and the ball took an outside edge and went past Dhoni’s gloves and Dhoni thought may be the first slip would have attempted it. Nehra hurled a flurry of abuses against Dhoni’s sister and mother. Somehow this DVD quality is so good that it has picked up those gali’s very clearly as opposed to a live match on TV.

  79. #79 by phirwohi on May 24, 2008 - 6:55 PM

    damn..i dont see mumbai winning the next two..ok i am switching over to the royals.. 😉 they are the only ones who will stop mr showoff yuvraj.
    Javed bhai yes even i have seen nehra swear a lot of times..even our under 19 players swear a lot..looks like they think saying fcuk makes them look mighty cool and are ape-ing the firangs..

    Awas..thanks..mumbai is very cosmopolitan..people of all religions live here..and we really mix along with each other very well..didnt have any muslim friends as a kid cause no one was there in school but got them during college..and keep meeting them in my professional life and keep making new friends..so since i know them very well theres little room for any prejudice..on both sides..theres healthy respect and we keep participating in each others festivals..yes there have been a few riots..but its mostly the local goons who do it..supported by illiterate people living in slums from both sides who normally dont have anything else to do..

    Javed as i had said i completely understand..its a part of history which you heard from your elders who in turn must have heard it from their elders..
    even here in india shivaji is portrayed as someone who fought for hindu freedom..but actually he fought only for freedom..freedom for all not just hindus..it was only when the nizam and mougal rulers persecuted that he rose in rebellion..infact his very own father was a noble man in nizams court…so he was very well off..but the peoples plight made him think of swaraj..and he had many muslim sardars in his army..he was a very just ruler..once after a successful campain in kalyan the fighters captured the wife of the muslim chief of the fort and presented her as war trophy to him..he not only admonished and punished those who brought her but also told her that ” had his own mother been as beautiful ..he too would have been born a beautiful looking person ” he sent her away to her husband with full honour..and equated /called her like his own mother…

    I was born in pune ..the city has only one fort that is the Shanivar wada..the fort of the peshwas..as for lal mahal..our poorest choudharys/thakurs/zamindars/waderas surely have much bigger kothis then the one storyed structure..

    as for being a pahadi chua..well he was indeed the father of gurreila warfare..his story is indeed very interesting and inspiring..and the afzal khan and shiastakhan encounters too are an interesting read…you can always google those.. 🙂

    awas..akbar is highly regarded as a king here in india as well..he may not be a mullah favourite since he ultimately came up with his own religion..but he was a very wise and just ruler..people prospered under his rule..which i feel is more important in life..no mother would want to see her child sleeping hungry..
    ..at times i do feel we as a society could have done without religions..cause it has caused so much blood shed..makes me wonder at times if there really is a god( i do believe in god..also pray but seeing the sufferings of people all over dose make me sceptical in my depressed mood )..correct me if i am wrong javed..but was it not buddha who had said that if there had really been a god ..he wouldnt have created such an imperfect world…and honestly i tried to think a lot to counter it..but factually what he said was true.

    speaking of gaalis..have any of you seen the dubbed hollywood movies…they never translate the m fcuker bs**d and whole lot of other gaalis into urdu/hindi..( me and my friends always try and translate the dialogue have great fun speaking it in the desi language )

  80. #80 by Abdul on May 24, 2008 - 8:01 PM

    Watched the highlights show called cricket on 5 wow what a wonderful intiguing highlights package it was. Khanshab u live in the city where the the match is going on and I wonder if u are going to watch a days play during it.
    Anyway after the first test match which was largely affected by the miserbale rain the secound test has been dominated by Newzeland so far. Ross Taylor played a superb knock and Daniel Vectori is bowling really well and looks to be in good rythum with his consistant left arm spin.

    Meanwhile on the Carribean the Jamaican Kingston wicket looks to be a batsmens paradise and we see two class acts in Ricky pointing and Shiverane the solid Chanderpual utilising the pitch and making full use of the batting favourured wickets.

    I can’t stand Chanderpual’s batting beacuse everytime I turn on the tele he seems to be batting and he never gets out and just can bat and bat and has no area of weakness must be such a frustrating canidtae for the oppositon and I’m sure he will have a key role to play if Westindies are going to save the match and get a successful result in the series.

  81. #81 by Mohammed Munir - Sharjah, UAE. on May 24, 2008 - 9:11 PM

    Khan Sahab …

    Good to see you around. Even if you are too busy to comment, please keep us updated on the Hot Gals front 🙂

    Awas …

    Yes sure, the joke was nice. I guess your Hajaamat have increased your sense of humour too 😉

    Phirwohi (not again) …

    Since you are from Pune, did you know one Riaz Husseini Poonawala ? He was one Bohri Muslim, and a good first-class player of his times in India and almost got selected for the Indian national team. He was from Pune too.

    theossa …

    The most important match of the entire IPL is on Sunday between the Loroos and Dhakkans 😉

  82. #82 by M. Y. Kasim. Houston. Tx. on May 24, 2008 - 11:57 PM

    Javed A. Khan,

    Thank you for enquiring about my health. I really am not feeling well lately.

    I could not resist putting in my little bit of knowledge about history.

    It was Pope Urban who saw that the second sons of the Europeon Kings were fighting among themselves and to put their energies to some “useful” purpose, he invented the idea of “Crusade”

    Regarding Richard the “Lion Hearted”, it was Salahuddin Ayyubi who sent his personal Doctor (Tabib) to treat his enemy with the message that if he wish to return to his homeland, he, Salahuddin, will provide him all the neccessary provision and all the relics he needs to go with dignity with the promise not to venture again.

    I have read many of Miss Karen Armstrong’s books and am a great admirer and fan of hers.

    Similarlarly, there is a serial called “Prithviraj Chauhan” on an Indian TV channel which I saw a trailer wherein it is suggested that he is a “great warrior and saviour” of India. The travesty is that Shahabuddin Ghauri, the first great Muslim Conqouror of India is portrayed as villain and his name is pronouned with contempt as “Mohmed Ghori.”

    It is like “JIS KI LAATHI, OOS KI BHES”

    The other day, one of my co-patient in the clinic asked me if it is true that QURA’AN says kill an American and you will enter Paradise!!

    I asked him, “Have you read it?”

    “No”

    “When was the QURA’AN revealed?” I asked him.

    “I dont know”

    “When was America discovered?”

    “May be 300-400 years ago”

    “QURA’AN was was reavealed more than 1400 years ago. Now you figure it out youself.” I told him.

    One more thing: I have not read Dr. Shaad Shafqat’s book, The Cutting Edge, if you could arrange to mail it to me, I would be grateful, you know my e-mail address, ask me and I will give you my postal address and send the M.O.

    Five years ago, when I first was diagnosed with rectal-colon cancer, I asked my children to give away all my books to whomsoever they deem fit. The only two left are the Holy Qura’an and a Translation and Explanation by Muhammad Asad.

  83. #83 by khansahab on May 25, 2008 - 12:10 AM

    MY Kasim,

    Sir, it is very enjoyable to read your comments and experiences. Myself and the two other Legslip managers are deeply disturbed and saddened to hear of your health. Obviously we have known for some time that you suffer from cancer.

    We do pray for your well being and may Allah bless you.

  84. #84 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 25, 2008 - 4:49 AM

    Mr. MY Kasim

    I don’t have the book “The Cutting Edge” and if I order in Canada it costs me $29.62 plus $3.99 shipping and handling and then I ship it to you it will cost you about $15.00 However, if you order from Amazon.com USA it would be much cheaper the cost in American is $12.50 plus $3.99 for shipping and handling. They accept visa, master card, amex and money orders. Here is the link you can order it from here:

    http://www.amazon.com/Cutting-Edge-Autobiography-Javed-Miandad/dp/0195799186

    Your comments are very informative and interesting. I am glad you like Karen Armstrong’s articles and books. Apart from Armstrong there are two more ladies, one from India i.e. Arundhatti Roy she also writes for The Guardian . And the other one is, Prof. Martha Nussbaum from Chicago. I always read their articles, both of them write without any bias and prejudice and they are never afraid to call a spade, a spade.

    To silence the critics who have been bashing the Muslim women who wear hijaab and veil Karen Armstrong wrote this beautiful article, its a must read.

    http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticleNew.asp?xfile=data/opinion/2006/November/opinion_November59.xml&section=opinion&col=

    I hope you feel better soon. May God shower His mercies upon you and help you recover soon. Best regards.

  85. #85 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 25, 2008 - 5:47 AM

    phirwohi

    Scroll above and read, I used the word “fort knox” for Lal Mahal and that was because you being a banker I thought may be you know what fort knox is? It is the United States Bullion Depository, where the gold bars are kept. It was just a pun, sorry my dark humour did not click your banking skills. It was just a sarcasm my dear. I know it was built by his parents and he spent his early life there.

    Anyways, the point that I did not want to mention assuming I may hurt your feelings and also those of others who like him and support him, you have mentioned it. You wrote:“he was indeed the father of gurreila warfare” hear, hear, hear, indeed you solved my problem and now I can elaborate my point further.

    First I concur your views that if he was not the father then he must at least be a chacha or a mama of “Guerilla Warfare” and you know what? The Syrians, Palestinians, and the Lebanese must be the bhanja, bhateeja (nephews) of that warfare, which the Israelis and the US or the West in general started calling them as “terrorist.” The Afghani Mujahideen’s warfare style was no different from the guerilla warfare. In fact, no country on earth has ever silenced or completely defeated those “sir-phiray” pathans and Afghans. As they say: “One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter – true or false? What Sayeth you?

    About your quote of Gautam Buddha: “if there had really been a god ..he wouldnt have created such an imperfect world.”

    First of all I don’t know and I cannot verify if he has said this. If he has really said this, I don’t agree with it. Because, the Universe is perfect, it is the Man (Insaan) who made this living world an imperfect place to dwell. The Universe was not created by a blind chance, it did not happen just with a big bang, there is a purpose in its creation, and there is a Creator who created it.

    Forget about what Buddha said or what Einstein said. The universe with all its creations, both animate and inanimate, has a flawless design, unique systems, and an ordered balance that provide all the conditions necessary for living things to survive. Everything in the heavens and earth glorifies Him.

    This is not the forum to discuss this subject in depth but, you have touched it and I feel compelled to express my views. Every planet in the universe, large and small, is critically an important part of a larger order. Not one of their positions in space or any of their movements is random. On the contrary, their countless details known to us so far have been created and especially adjusted for a particular purpose. Of all the innumerable factors influencing the balances in the universe, a change in the position of just one planet is enough to bring chaos. But these balances are never upset. The universe continues on, in its perfect order, with no problems. All of this is a result of God’s supreme power in creation.

    Now, to substantiate my claims I would like to quote a verse from the Qura’an and I am not the only one using it when confronted by some people to back up with some scientific evidence, I quote this verse: He Who created the seven heavens in layers. You will not find any flaw in the creation of the All-Merciful. Look again -do you see any gaps? Then look again and again. Your sight will return to you dazzled and exhausted!” (67:3-4) Even the big bang theory is contained in this verse “Fatir us Samawadi wal Ardi” meaning WE exploded the heavens and the earth. See, the word “exploded” is used here i.e., the same as scientists call it a big bang.

  86. #86 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 25, 2008 - 5:51 AM

    theossa

    This one is for you.

    One is without reason.

    Everything needs a reason,
    but One never needs it.

    Every number has a reason
    to be the number it is.
    Except One.

    Every number is in need
    for the number One,
    but One never needs One.

    Two needs One
    to be two.
    Three needs One
    to be three.
    One hundred needs One
    to be one hundred.
    Or it will be ninety-nine.

    But One is without reason.

    And if there is no One,
    there is Zero.
    There is nothing.

    But if there is One,
    everything is going to be from it.

    (Mawlana Sheikh Mohammed Nazim Adil al-Haqqani al-Naqshbandi)

  87. #87 by phirwohi on May 25, 2008 - 6:17 AM

    Javed i misunderstood your reference to fortknox as something which is very well guarded..impregnable..

    Mr kasim sir..i wish you a speedy recovery..your posts are always very thoughtful..

    Munir..i was born in pune but was brought up in mumbai..are you a bohri? my boss and best friend is a bohri..and the bohri thaal is amazing !! my experience to playing cricket is sadly restricted only to the gully mohalla..so havent met any blue blooded cricketer..

    Javed that was a very nice explanation…somewhat on similar lines to what many elders have explained to me..some where sanskrit scholars..but when you talk of Insan..isnt he again supposed to be a creation of the god almighty?

    Yes ..no one ever was able to subdue the afgans..thats what i like about them..the free sprit….one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter..i will not deny that..its been the norm through centuries..

    And you surprise me again with your knowledge Javed..your well versed with koranic verses..man is there anything ..anything in this world that your not aware of ??

  88. #88 by Awas on May 25, 2008 - 11:19 AM

    Javed

    What you said here about Islam is all very well said as we Muslims do believe in that but I guess Phirwohi said something in a different context. More of that later.

    Abdul

    Nice to know someone is watching real cricket too. I saw a bit of the England match too but not much as I was busy but hope to see a bit more. You have summed up the state of both matches very well. This second test is turning out to be a good contest. Chanderpual has definitely been amazing especially since last couple of years or so in both tests and ODI’s. I can never understand a word when that guy speaks his few words though but his batting really speaks for him;)-

    Khansahab

    Very balanced views on Jinnah and Gandhi and quite right we should all learn to tolerate such personalities. I once even liked what the controversial figure like Lal Krishna Advani said on Indo-Pak ties in an interview that “his dream is to have open borders and complete free movement between all the SAARC countries similar to EC and best of all some kind of unification between Pak/India”. In my view if Berlin wall can come down then something like that is not impossible either.

    Phirwohi

    Having googled a bit ;)- I feel a little more enlightened with some of the historical events that I had read God knows when but were buried at the back of my mind. I can’t disagree here; it’s all very interesting folklore like stuff.

    On religion when you said “society could have done without religions..cause it has caused so much blood shed”, I guessed that it was in the context of various wars and other ideological bloodshed in the name of religion rather than which religion is better. After all the wars are always either on religion or territory. In any case everyone’s religion is what you actually believe in…it’s your faith.

    I thought it was very philosophical when you said “at times i do feel we as a society could have done without religions”. Without delving too deep into it, it does give food for thought indeed sometimes. Mind thinks all sorts of weird and wonderful things…its natural. It does make you wonder, for instance, that if everyone’s religion is the real thing then who’s God is right? Or if reincarnation is to be believed, for instance, then perhaps we need another planet to fit everything into it. I better not digress too much into it as it’s a never ending discussion but anyway as you can guess, I am not one of those who are very close minded about all things religious. In any case, the tenets of most religions bind you in doing good deeds and that can only be good.

    Talking about cricket, for us outsiders it is very difficult to get attached to any particular regional Indian team. IPL is at long last reaching a climax (somehow the word doesn’t suit describing cricket) ;)- In the beginning, Deccans looked to me the team to watch with players like Gilly, Symonds, Gibbs, Afridi and Sharma all T20 specialists but my allegiance quickly changed to Shane Warne’s team. His team is looking more like a dream team now. Graham Smith has been amazingly consistent; Tanvir is fast becoming the top bowler in this tournament, the only Pakistani who has really shone. I wonder if there is a man of the series award, if so then he could well be one of the contenders. Younus Khan has suddenly appeared out of nowhere sitting in the dugout.

    Phirwohi, by the way, what you further elaborated in your earlier post on Yuvraj’s father was a revelation to me. His father looking for a gori bride for his son is a fact as well but to me it was an insult to his own kind and himself. It is entirely different and perfectly acceptable to fall in love and marry with anyone of any race but a premeditated idea that “a gori is better for my son” is pretty obnoxiousness.

  89. #89 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 25, 2008 - 11:52 AM

    phirwohi

    Of course Insan is God’s creation, if you read my comment above, I said the Creator, created this Universe with a purpose and, Man is God’s best creation.

    In Surah At-Teen (The Fig) He says: “Surely We created man of the best stature.” 95:04 “Then we reduced him to the lowest of the low.” 95:05

    By giving us brains (in Urdu it is called Aqal-e-Saleem) He has placed us above all His creations and it is a kind of test (for those who believe in God – and not for those who are Atheists) for us to pass that test. The materialistic Darwinians or the modern Atheist don’t believe in it. Its a matter of Faith and, faith is to believe what we do not see and the reward of this faith is what we believe.

    The Dhukkans Charged the Looroos with a late assault to put Dravid & Co under pressure but just now the tiny Chinna “GoswamyGo” has proved to be Dravid’s “Swami Antertyami.” And now you will see the slide of the Dhukkans. They will be at the bottom, i.e., where the fit well. 🙂

    Talking about Swami, I like a few bhajans especially the one I am quoting below and for saying this I may not be liked by the fundos. But, it doesn’t matter to me because, I believe that everything The Creator has created glorifies Him. And, I like the rhyme and the flow of this bhajan and only those who have heard it will understand what I mean by this.

    Jai jagadish hare. Swami jai deenanath hare
    Bhakta jano ke sankat, Das janon ke avagun
    Bansariwala dur kare, Om jai jagadish hare.

    Now, please stop your praising because, “mai channay kay darakht per charhnay wala nahee.” The only reason I know something is due to the fact that I have studied theology and took keen interest in comparative religious studies. I believe that unless you know more about other religions how can you differentiate which one is better?

  90. #90 by Abdul on May 25, 2008 - 12:26 PM

    My match has unfortunatley been called of and instead I’ve been keeeping up to date with this Old Trafford test match were Newzeland are in total command and heaidng for a victory. Daniel Victorri captured 5 wickets with his left arm spin and making a point on Vectorri he has such a lethal arm ball and all batsmen feel they are an LBW canidate when facing him gyle and flight.

    WOW Dinesh Kharthik yesterday played a matchwinning knock what a tremendous exhibition of strokes he played it was simply amazing to get his side over the line.

    And finally I would also like to wish Mr Y Kasim all the best on his recovery.

  91. #91 by Rehan Khan on May 25, 2008 - 1:05 PM

    Jaffer has been a disgrace today. But when he ran Kallis out I dont think there was a run there. Misbah should not have called for the run.

  92. #92 by Rehan Khan on May 25, 2008 - 1:32 PM

    Bangalore will lose this match. Only Sohail Tanvir and Afridi’s bowling will be remembered in IPL. Misbah has been OK in IPL but nowhere near his best.

    The rest of the Pakistani players have been unimpressive. The best players have been Aussies and Indians. And if you ask me these 2 teams are already the best currently along with South Africa.

  93. #93 by khansahab on May 25, 2008 - 5:22 PM

    Rehan Khan,

    I was thinking along the same lines as you that Bangalore would lose that match but I think the fact that Dravid made 30 odd meant that the task was not impossible for the batsmen who came after Dravid’s and Misbah’s dismissals.

    Yeah and I agree with your assessment of which Pakistani players have impressed. After today’s Kolkata match I would also place Umar Gul in the same category as Misbah. I would like to classify players like this:

    Outstanding: Sohail Tanvir
    Good: Afridi ( mainly bowling and also fielding)
    OK/Passable: Misbah and Gul
    Below average: Kamran Akmal, Salman Butt and Mohammad Asif
    Poor: Mohammad Hafeez and Shoaib Malik

    Shoaib Akhtar is not applicable because he has only played in 2 matches.
    Malik has been the biggest disappointment because at least Hafeez has kept his economy rate in check but Malik has done nothing remarkable in IPL except take a few good catches.

    Does Malik’s performance in IPL reflect how unimpressive a player he has become since being awarded captaincy? IPL is a new low in Malik’s career. I believe now the case is stronger than ever that Malik should be removed and Afridi should be rewarded. It seems Malik is not a Test player now and neither is he a Twenty20 player. Is he even an ODI player?

  94. #94 by khansahab on May 25, 2008 - 6:05 PM

    Great cameo by Gul who should be Man of the Match and what a great player Sourav Ganguly has been for India. Very good in Tests, excellent in ODI’s and not bad in Twenty20!

  95. #95 by Awas on May 25, 2008 - 6:09 PM

    It looks like Ganguly and Gul have won the match for Kalkota. They were loosing it but then turned the match on its head in the last 4 overs only.

    Did anyone notice the grounds were half empty for both matches on a Sunday?

  96. #96 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 25, 2008 - 6:36 PM

    HONESTLY speaking, when Dada’s team were 101 for 6 down, I was thinking of turning off the TV and go out to enjoy the bright sunshine on this fantastic lazy Sunday afternoon. And then came, Umar Gul I said to myself, OK just one more over and then I will go. But, what a turnaround it was, Ganguly played one of the best innings of his life and that too on his home ground in front of his home ground (not so full, yet a lot) and he kept his cool till the end. Especially the last over he played was so full of experience and may be his luckfavoured him too as he was middling the ball with his bat and hitting in the right areas.

    But, he got the impetus from Umar Gul, the Man of the match who not only bowled exceedingly well to take 4 for 23 but, he also scored 24 of 11 balls and his two huge sixes to set up a pace and that must have prompted his skipper Ganguly to take charge and in 4 overs and 4 balls the Night Riders scored 74 runs and won the match. They deserved the win.

    Yuvraj is such a spoil sport, he couldn’t accept the defeat in a graceful manner, it was so obvious from his face and he was looking sad and dejected he muttered a few words for Ganguly that he played well and kept his head low (not showing it to the camera,) that’s because he knew he was unable to control his emotions and hide his feelings. What a loser! Baap nay sirf Jeetna sikhaya aur kaha beta haro tou aur ziyada arrogance dikhao!

    Anyways, over all it was a good match, Khalifa nazar nahee aye! Has anyone seen Shoiab Akhtar? I missed the whole of Punjab batting so may be earlier they showed him on TV sitting somewhere in the lounge. 😉 Apparently SRK is also pissed off by the officials for not allowing him to be with his team, whereas Zinta is always there, perhaps she has a VIP pass?

  97. #97 by Mohammed Munir on May 25, 2008 - 6:51 PM

    Mr. M. Y. Kasim, it’s painful to know about your medical condition, and I sincerely pray and wish you a speedy recovery and best wishes for a good health.

    Double G did it for Kala-Katas.

    All is IN well, that ends IN well for the SRK.

    Phirwohi …

    I aint no Bohri, I am a Khan, the Pakistani Khan that is 😉

    The reason I asked about a bohri player from Pune was because he is a bohri and he works with me in a bank these days.

    LS Management …

    After the debut century, we are now on the verge of a second consecutive century of comments on this thread too. Way to go guys.

  98. #98 by M. Y. Kasim. Houston. Tx. on May 25, 2008 - 10:06 PM

    Thank you all for your kind thoughts. I am deeply moved by your gesture.

    Now, lets move to some lighter vein. Way back, that great comedian, Moeen Akhtar enacted this drama.

    A new history teacher was taking a class:

    Javed, tell me “Who broke the Somnath’s Mandir?”

    Javed “I did’nt do it. sir”

    Awas “I did’nt do it either, sir”

    Khansahab “I was’nt even in the school yesterday, sir”

    Mohammed Munir “Where did you keep it, sir?”

    Theossa “I have’nt seen it, sir”

    Phirvohi “I never knew you had it, sir”

    The teacher was mad and lined all the boys and started beating with his “soti.” At that time, the Head Master was passing by and saw what is happening. He came and enquired the reason for punishing the boys so severely. On learning the reason, he said “Since it was broken during your period, the cost will be deducted out your pay-check!!”

    Upon this, the history teacher was furious and went straight to the Supervisor of the School and narrated the whole episode. The Supervisor called the Head Master and asked for his version of the story.

    After listening to both sides of the arguments, he told them to calm down and suggested that since it was something fragile and bound to break-up, he will adjust it into wear and tear column and send a requisition note for the lost, broken and rplacement items.

    I am not very good at translating, somebody like Javed A Khan would have done justice to it, like ” Aap ki class mein toota hai to aap ki tankha mein se paise katein ge” or “Tootne ki cheez thi, toot gayee” etc. If you can translate it into Urdu/Hindi, you will really enjoy it enormously.

    Thanks again and God bless you all.

  99. #99 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 25, 2008 - 10:15 PM

    khansahab

    after today’s performance you should push Umar Gul up in the good category because he was not only the Man of the Match due to his bowling, but he set up the impetus to attack the Punjab XI and Ganguly followed him in that pursuit.

    Rehan Khan

    On your comments on Wasim Jaffer, I would like to quote what Sunil Gavaskar said when he got himself run out first and then got Jacques Kallis, he said, in Mumbai dressing room they call him “Nawab Sahab” for the way he walks and move in slow motion. I would like to add something more to that title. Since he is from Mumbai and there is a place in Mumbai called “Andheri” So he is “Nawab Sahab of Andheri” hence the proverbial raj ….. ” Andheri Nagri, Chowpat Raaj.” Let me put it in simple words: “He is not a T20 player.”

    Munir

    On your asking phirwohi “do you know so and so from Pune?” Reminds me of a Baddoo customer of mine in Dubai who spent his summer vacation in London with his family and, when he returned after a couple of months and was telling me that he went to London, I told him that during that time, I had also gone to London for a week for some official meetings.

    He said, “WALLAH??? Ma Shooftek!!” Meaning, “aasam say, I didn’t see you.” As if I am London Bridge, Big Ben, London Eye or some tourist attraction jo usko nazar nahee aya.

    Meray bhai Munir, if I am not mistaken may be phirwohi may correct me, Pune has a population of over 5 million as opposed to the total population of the UAE which is about 2.9 million people and that too majority of them are expatriates.

    Mr Kasim

    When Mahmood Ghaznavi attacked Somnath ka Mandir may tou kya mera baap daada bhee nahee thaa so why are you accusing me?

  100. #100 by M. Y. Kasim. Houston. Tx. on May 26, 2008 - 4:10 AM

    LOL @ Javed A. Khan,

    It was’nt me, it was Moeen Akhtar, so he is to blame!!

    More on Cricket tomorrow.

    And thanks for the Amazon link. I will do the needfull asap.

  101. #101 by abdul on May 26, 2008 - 10:11 AM

    Today is a national holiday in the Uk and we have two intriguing and exciting test matches in the balance.

    At Old Trafford the status of the match is vey much “game on” with England requiring a little over 200 for victory. In my last nglan comment I said that Newzeland were in total command but Monty Panasear tore through the Newzeland order to give England the hope of victory. Monty bowled extremely well capturing match winning figures of 6-37 to give England the chance to pull of a win almost out of the gloom. This is what Danish Kaneria can’t do for Pakistan picking up match winning figures in such a situation.Monty is another bowler who can trap batsmen LBW with his consitency,loop and flight and as the commentator said Old Trafford is his favourite strip and would love to carry it around with him. During this wonderful performance from Panasear he passed a signifigant landmark of 100 wickets in his test career so far and much more is to come in the future. As Peter Moores said he is England’s NO 1 spinner and a math winning performer. Well bolwed Monty !

    With 200 more runs to win the game shall be a lively and intresting contest. Daniel Vectori will have a key role to play and the pitch will spin with odd balls kepping low. Nevertheless I predict that Engalnd will win the match. Does anyone have different views they want to challennge or share ?

    Meanwhile on the other side of the globe we have Westindies chasing a a futher 250 for victory in the fouth innings of the Jamiacan test match. indies cricket is on the Up and they did really well to take 20 wickets which is essentail is winning test matches especially against the best in the business.With the solid Shiv Chanderpual still in the hut I back and hope that Westindies will win this match. I feel Australia have dominated world cricket for far to long and people will like to watch them lose more often for the sake of competetion and challenge.

    I will be back later to see if my predictions are right.

  102. #102 by abdul on May 26, 2008 - 10:14 AM

    SRK khan sent an sms message to the Kokota Night Riders. It was a long message I wonnder if he has to pay ! He was saying how frustrated he was at the teams performance and how to play in the next two games.

    Do Bollywood and cricket have a partnership ?

  103. #103 by abdul on May 26, 2008 - 10:26 AM

    WOW what a performance from Umar Gul and Dada fullfilles SRK’S wish. I really hope that Preity Zinta ( My mahi) team Mohali can still graduate to the semis.All these confusing mathematical calculations will be applied this week to decide into the fianl 4.

    Engalnd now 98 for one requiring 196 more to win and a few more there to the Engalnd c

  104. #104 by Awas on May 26, 2008 - 12:08 PM

    Abdul

    Both test matches have taken an interesting turn. You are right, England seem to have got the grip on this match now. This match seesawed throughout. What a game! How you compared Panesar and Kaneria is spot on.

    In the other test Aus were what about 20 for 5? So how they got to 167 from that position only champions can. If it were Pakistan they would have probably crumbled to well below 100. Anyway, WI got a great chance to come back, bat well and win this match. It will be good for WI cricket.

  105. #105 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 26, 2008 - 2:32 PM

    phirwohi

    I think you are not going to comment anything on today’s match until it is over. And, I am assuming this because you are sitting with your fingers crossed? 🙂

    Sachin has already lost the toss and expressed his feelings that he might have liked to bowl as well, in the last match too he said the same and lost the match.

    The match is about to start and I would like to watch Sachin and Suriya rather than typing here. The only difference between you and I is, I am not sitting with my fingers crossed. Good luck to you.

    17 wickets in 9 games thats spectacular is the first comment made by Arun Lal on Sohail Tanvir’s bowling. Take care

  106. #106 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 26, 2008 - 4:16 PM

    Once again SOHAIL TANVIR is at his best
    4-0-14-4

    And he is 3 wickets ahead of that chimp and most importantly he has achieved his 21 wickets in only 9 matches. Graeme Smith was referring to him by saing: “Sohail Bhai” did a wonderful job again.

    By the end of 19th over when Tanvir finished his quota the total was only 125 and courtesy Shane Watson’s last over he gave away 25 runs to make the total more defendable for the Mumbians. Now they have to bowl extremely well or the RR have to do something really stupid to lose.

    In his interview to Arun Lal to get his purple cap, Sohail said, I played a lot of “tape ball cricket” and Ravi Shastri heard “table cricket” and was amusing himself by saying, thats new thing “table cricket” in Pakistan. There is no wax like ear wax Mr. Shastri.

  107. #107 by phirwohi on May 26, 2008 - 4:25 PM

    Lol..Javed anywhich ways i will be the winner..if mumbai loses i switch over my support to the royals..
    more then the wickets ..tanvir has to be applauded for keeping surya and tendlya quite for the first two overs..over all great captainship by warne..immagine surya hitting his first boundary in the 5th over!!

    tendulkar goofed up again by sending utappa dosa when he is clearly out of form..good end by takawale to the inning …but the royals should get there easily …

  108. #108 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 26, 2008 - 5:02 PM

    phirwohi

    horse-trading? ha, ha and huh. Aur kewn nahee?

    like I said the RR would have to so something really stupid to loose this match and Kamran Akmal did the first stupid thing in this match by getting run out in a stupid way.

    Fernando is a lucky guy to have dropped little Asnodkar and then getting the big Pathan, Nehra almost did a Fernando with his juggling acts.

    Btw, Takewala means? Bartun (pots and pans) or Sill butta takewala? I know a few “walas” like in our bank there was a “Daruwala” perhaps his ancestors were in Daru business. There was motiwala, jaali wala and the funniest was “Soda-water Baatli wala” I think these guys add their surname either with their profession or with the place like they refer to people, O’ that Kabuliwala? Or that Dubai wala and Nairobi wala?

    I agree with you on Uthappa – Dosa who got an Idli and some Upma followed by a Baasundi. With 47 – 3 now the Mumbai Indians have a chance. That Takewala knock of 25 in the last over will be the difference. One thing is for sure, if the Mumbai Indians reach finals they will be hard to beaten on their home ground.

    Seems there are a lot of Kaa-Keys in today’s match and Arun Lal was at his best showing his “Thurki-ism”

  109. #109 by khansahab on May 26, 2008 - 6:15 PM

    Rajasthan Royals have become a royal pain in the a$$ for all the other teams.

  110. #110 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 26, 2008 - 6:15 PM

    phirwohi

    I feel sorry for you, a nail biting finish and both sri lankans proved to be butter fingers on the last ball. first Frenando and then Jayasuriya.

    I got to go
    take care

    Ps. My commiseration to you and now you can cross the floor.

  111. #111 by ahmed11 on May 26, 2008 - 6:31 PM

    what a nailbiter! truly awesome game.

    IPL has become a huge success worldwide. i was watching a pakistani programme today and the people on it were discussing how IPL is now more popular than indian dramas. when people come home from work they watch IPL and then go to sleep. it seems like whatever the IPL is about has worked. here you can see movie stars, cricket, cheerleaders all in one package.

    today rajasthan team proved they are mentally strong as well as being very talented. i think they will go on and win the IPL as the momentum is with them. let us hope sohail tanvir is the man of the tournament! it will be a great achievement for someone who has just started his international career.

    Ls management, how about a new thread now?

  112. #112 by abdul on May 26, 2008 - 7:21 PM

    It’s a miserable day outside and I have just come back from swimming and shopping. I was right in predicting that England will win and they did so easily in the end by a margin of 6 wickets. Strauss played a terrific knock to guide engalnd home. I was impressed by his technique and the way he built his innings.

    However my other prediction didn’t go right. I came home and saw them 8 down and stuart Mcgill just bambolzed the tail with his big turning legspin to complete procedings. It was an excellent oppurtunity for Westindies to win but Australia were to good for them in the end.

    What a miserable week it has been has cancelled my weekend matches for two weeks running unfortunately.Lets hope for better this week !

  113. #113 by abdul on May 26, 2008 - 7:32 PM

    Sohail Tanvir has been tremendous throughout the competetion and I’ve got an idea for a title for the next thread it’s…………………………………………………………………………

    1) Sohail Tanvir-The new Wasim Akram

    OR
    2) The Rajisthan Royals the underestimated underdogs

    By the way may I ask who updates the hot cars and gals page ?

  114. #114 by Awas on May 26, 2008 - 7:33 PM

    Phirwohi

    I hope you didn’t mind my earlier comments as you didn’t respond. It was just a general observation on religion nothing personal whatsoever.

    I wonder how many of you guys read that Javed’s link on Karen Armstrong’s article? I said I will comment on it later, so here is my take on it.

    Karen Armstrong in her article in support of wearing hijjab and comparing it with her own unpleasant experiences when she wore heavy attires as a Nun is very interesting and a good retort to critics who complain about women wearing hijjab or a niqab. My view has always been lifestyle matters are personal and shouldn’t be groaned about. It is people’s prejudices including politicians like Jack Straw and some writers that fan such controversies unnecessarily.

    What was more interesting in her article is though what the origins of hijjab are. I believe most people often don’t realise, even the ones who wear it, that there is no compulsion in Islam to wear or not to wear hijjab. It’s more of a personal choice than anything else. I have often had some futile debates with ignorant people who remain adamant that hijjab is necessary in Islam. Just like Karen Armstrong, a renowned Egyptian scholar Dr Zaki Badawi also mentions that hijjab has mainly come about due to some regional customs of some Arab/African countries than what is mistakenly believed was said in Islam.

    What Karen Armstrong said on this point in her article was this: “Until the late 19th century, veiling was neither a central nor a universal practice in the Islamic world. The Qur’an does not command all women to cover their heads; the full hijjab was traditionally worn only by aristocratic women, as a mark of status”. She goes on to say it was only when in the Muslim world the “reformers” who wanted their countries to look modern and rip off women’s niqabs that in retaliation hijjab became more of a so called symbol of Islam.

    The reality is that Qur’an’s injunction that Muslim women must “draw their veils over their bosoms” has led to widely varying codes of Islamic dress, or hijjab, over many centuries. Head to toe veiling in Islam has not always been compulsory. The customary origins of veiling go further beyond than the onset of Islam. In fact as one scholar wrote: “Beyond the Near East, the practice of hiding one’s face and largely living in seclusion appeared in classical Greece, in the Byzantine Christian world, in Persia, and in India among upper caste Rajput women. Muslims in their first century at first were relaxed about female dress”. And goes on to say: “When the son of a prominent companion of the Prophet asked his wife Aisha bint Talha to veil her face, she answered, ‘Since the Almighty hath put on me the stamp of beauty, it is my wish that the public should view the beauty and thereby recognized His grace unto them. On no account, therefore, will I veil myself’.”

  115. #115 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 26, 2008 - 8:27 PM

    Awas

    good interpretation and explanation, I had done this before on various forums that there is a misconception about Hijaab that it is compulsory in Islam.

    The word “Hijab” appeared in the Quran 7 times, five of them as “Hijab” and two times as “Hijaban,” these are 7:46, 33:53, 38:32, 41:5, 42:51, 17:45 & 19:17. None of these “Hijab” words are used in the Quran in reference to what the traditional Muslims call today (Hijab) as a dress code for the Muslim woman. Hijab as it appears in the Quran has nothing to do with the Muslim Women dress code.

    On the contrary the Qura’an has emphasized the garment of righteousness also, what Awas has mentioned above about the instruction to cover the bosom and the bodies, is also here in this verse from Qura’an.

    “O children of Adam, we have provided you with garments to cover your bodies, as well as for luxury. But the best garment is the garment of righteousness. These are some of GOD’s signs, that they may take heed.”
    Chapter 7:26

    Therefore, Hijab as it appears in the Quran has nothing to do with the Muslim Women dress code. Anyways, lets talk about it later. But, I thought of clearing this aspect right when it is being discussed.

    theossa might be seen tomorrow to give a farewell to the Dhukkans. Good luck.

  116. #116 by M. Y. Kasim. Houston. Tx. on May 26, 2008 - 9:34 PM

    Actually, we Muslims are giving too much importance to some of the miscreants who utter nonsense just to keep us from constructive work and to get involved in fruitless discussions, controversies and agitation.

    They are neither scholars, politicians nor academics, they are simply trouble-makers, plain and simple. They just throw a line and step away and enjoy the turmoil. Ignore these rotten-rats and they will rot away.

    Thats the best way to deal with them.

  117. #117 by Awas on May 26, 2008 - 10:47 PM

    MY Kasim

    Sir, earlier you said “I have read many of Miss Karen Armstrong’s books and am a great admirer and fan of hers”.

    But now you seem to be saying something different, I don’t get it.

  118. #118 by hamza on May 26, 2008 - 11:04 PM

    interesting thread and i kinda predicted it would be something along these lines. strange as today i was watching miandad’s interview who seemed to adopt the view that this poor show by pakistani players is a reflection of lack of quality. some of the other commentators think it might be the feeling of underconfidence playing along with indian players and indian captains and coaches. i dont think that would be a reason, if anything that would cause pakistanis to improve their game.

    about Malik, he is known to be a good twenty20 player but his skills have not shown in IPL. i really dont know why, it has surprised lots of people.

  119. #119 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 27, 2008 - 1:59 AM

    Mr. M.Y. Kasim

    ignoring is one aspect i.e., if you have nothing to say, the other aspect is if you have a valid point or a reason to give a reply, why not? Besides, we are discussing everything within reason and in a very decent manner without provoking anyone. So, I guess enlighten the ignorants is not a bad idea. I am not here for a tableegh but, those who say “ignorance is bliss” should also know that sometimes the bliss becomes a blister in the wrong spot. It is true that ignorance is bliss, but without education and without knowledge, life would loose its charm and the urge for struggle.

    Talking of education: There are two brothers, Yousuf Pathan and Irfan Pathan. It is obvious from the TV interviews that Yousuf cannot speak English, hence he is interviewed in his native Hindi/Urdu/Gujrathi whatever. Whereas, Irfan speaks decent English. As far as their game is concerned, in T20 the older brother is more “Yousful” than the younger one. May be with passage of time Yousuf might take a lead over Irfan, he already has in T20 but may be in the ODI too, he might prove his worth and become a permanent member of the Indian International Team or Team India.

    The point that I am trying to make here is , I see a kinda finesse and refinement in In Irfan’s looks and expression and thats due to education. The older one looks more simple humble, but he certainly doesn’t look sharp and smart as the other one. Althoug Irfan has always talked about his older brother as a better player than him, but the whole world came to discover his hidden talent in the IPL. Earlier, we saw a glimpse of it in the WC T-20 in SA last year. There was a spark and then it was kinda mirage. Now, he is a star.

    I had a feeling that, Yousuf because of his humble nature and by not acquiring those marketing skills through education, may not have been able to sell himself or push himself forward like Irfan did. It took some time for him to prove his mettle with his bat, he had to wait for “the opportunity and the sitting moment of success” to come to him rather than creating those moments and opportunities and grabbing them. Like, I’ve said before on another blog, opportunities don’t come in “yellow polka dot bikinis” and tell you, here I am grab me.

  120. #120 by phirwohi on May 27, 2008 - 1:59 AM

    Awas…dont worry..i dont think you wrote anything offencive..besides i never worry about such things as each person should have the freedom to voice his or her opinion..and its our right to ignore such people..just to give you a reference..lot of people lost lives due to demonstrations against the danish cartoons..but the most amazing fact is that the arabs gave it world wide publicity actually!!
    that paper hardly had any meaningful number of readers besides denmark as it is has only a few million people…the best would have been to ignore such idiots..but look at the publicity that fellow got and subsequently more and more papers published it just to be able to denigrate islam under the garb of freedom of expression!! ( if you let a bully know hes causin you distress ..he will try n hurt you more )

    you mentioned something interesting about the hijab.my take as a non muslim would be..that in those times 1400 years ago..most of the arabs were nomadic..people lived in small settlements..had to move around a lot and there were lots of bandits..hence to protect the women folk they must have had the practice of hijab.( covering from head to toe )..i feel it was the requirement of that time for that particular region..but that was not the case for other regions places…the subcontinent for example or malasyia / indonesia didnt have any such problem..our men folk were very respectful of women at that time..and the dressing of women was modest …hence the hijab never took over the subcontinent muslim women as they felt protected.
    it was only after the saudi wahhabi money started pouring in their hijab influence took over firstly the men and then as a result the women. and this is mostly the case with south asian countries as well..also what contributed more to this culture is that our people go for work in the arab lands..over there they get influenced ..come back and impose the same on their women folk back home..( mind you i have nothing against a woman voluntairly donning the hijab..its afterall an individuals choice ) ..but i have seen it most cases its cause of societal cumpulsion..as has been confirmed to me by many muslim girls…( what they question is that while its ok for men to have many girlfriends ..ogle at women etc..society dosent think twice about calling them characterless if they give up on the hijab. ) same is the case with the hindu girls coming from orthodox families..jeans are a strict no no for them.
    guess it boils down to we being a male dominated society…each place has its own culture..dress sense etc..i personally feel that it is best left to the individual..he or she individually will have to pay for it on judgement day..we have no right to question someone elses morality..at least not until we can live a pious saints life ourselves 😉

  121. #121 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 27, 2008 - 2:47 AM

    phirwohi

    Its good to see your perspective, finally tum nay apna veil to hataya aur kuch apnay baray may bataya! “Mughambo Khush hoa” 🙂

    Let me clear this minor misunderstanding which you have in mind about the life of Muslims 1400 years ago nomads, bandits etc., wali baat that you wrote in your comments. Mere Bhai, during that time there was no hijaab. I think Awas has mentioned about it in the last paragraph of his comments about the Prophet’s wife Ayesha bint Talha. Read it again if you have missed it.

    But, you are right about the wahabism especially the current lot or the so-called youth who have identified themselves with the hardliners and practice extremism through their so-called “Halaqas” and one of them calls himself an “Amir”. It is their personal view and their perception and interpretation of the religion that they are trying hard to impose on others and, they are the ones who are ruining the image of the religion by practicing something ONLY they believe is right and just.

    The women who are seen wearing hijaab these days (I want to show my respect towards them as they have the right to wear whatever they want – if some women walk half naked on the street people don’t raise their eyebrows or bat an eyelid. So why do they have to object on someone who is properly dressed? Or for those who cover their hair) some are doing it because they feel comfortable wearing a hijaab, they know there is no mention of it in the Quran, yet they wear it. Some are being forced by their men-folk (the orthodox type) in either case it is not a prerequisite or a condition in our religion. Its simply an individual’s choice or some are obeying the orders of their men folk – it is up to them.

    As regards India, once again I would like to point out what Awas wrote which I think has been mentioned in Karen Armstrong’s articles or may be somewhere else, but I have also read that it was a custom and tradition in India that the rich and the upper caste Brahmins and Rajput women used to cover their head. There is a whole world of information on the Internet about how the Indian Hindu women used to cover their heads and their bodies with “Ghoonghat” and “Chaadars.” In fact the unknown males were not allowed in the “Zanana” area even among the Hindu families. So, its more to do with customs and traditions.

    The “Ghunghat” has now remained only a symbolic thing. ” Suhaag Raat Hai………. Ghoonghat Uthaa Reahaa hoon mai.” It is only a festive thing or something that we see in movies and in poetry they talk about Ghoonghat. Perhaps you know better that a Saree has a “Pal-loo” and that Palloo was used as a ghoonghat to cover the head and even the face. Don’t you see the Rajhastani women cover their head and their face with their Saree ka Palloo, even today? I am not talking about the IPL kaa-keys in blue Sarees. 😉

    Kal kya hoga? Dhukkans vs. Chennai, I think you should be supporting the Dhukkans to beat Chennai, so that Mumbai has a chance to creep in!
    Please also pray that it doesn’t rain, its not that the Dhukkans will miss a match, but a Wash-out means Mumbai – out.

  122. #122 by Awas on May 27, 2008 - 1:11 PM

    I was just looking at IPL statistics. At this stage Sohail Tanvir’s record amongst significant contributors looks like this:
    Highest wicket taker
    Best average
    Best economy
    Best strike rate
    Best bowling figures in an innings
    Not only that, he has played 4 fewer matches than his nearest rival, that Bandar Sreesanth. Sorry guys, I am not gloating here as I am aware he has been the only outstanding Pak players other than some good to average performers but Gul’s name is worth mentioning. However, outstanding performance of Tanvir is not just amongst Pak players but amongst all IPL players.

    As far as Actor is concerned, it seems like he is not even capable of bowling mere 4 overs, so he should seriously think about calling it a day and perhaps take up Sumo wrestling ;)-

    In today’s match Chennai have got all to play for and Deccans have nothing to loose, so let’s see.

  123. #123 by theossa on May 27, 2008 - 2:23 PM

    First of all, my best wishes to Mr. Kasim for the good health and I hope sir you feel better.

    Wow, what “heavy topics” being discussed here. My take on religions will put me in trouble here. I agree with the earlier comments of Him-Again (Phirwohi). I think it is his intelligence that he questions. I’m among those who are confused and have to question the mere existence of God. I look at the universe different, there are billions of stars in our galaxy and there could be countless galaxies in this universe so it will be naive to think that we as human beings are the only so called “intelligent” (Asraful-Mukhlokat one may call it) form of life in this universe. I’m not good at history but someone else here could elaborate that the idea of life after death was there in Samarian culture way before Judaism and Christianity. Samarian people needed to justify why some people were more blessed than the others so here comes the idea of life after death and now the not so fortunate people can be rewarded after death. I think the idea of God could be originated by just “Fear” and people needed to make sense of this world. As the humanity advanced, philosophy and ritual were added and religion was evolved to better oneself and the whole society around them and to seek a way to live. On one hand, I feel that everything is inter-connected and when I look at my life I can see how the events of my life were connected like a chain that if this thing did not happen then that thing would never occur. That makes me think that there could be a supreme driving force behind all this. On the other hand I think why don’t God just show up and end the misery in this world? Why usually poor, for example children in Africa born with Aids suffer and cunning survive and thrive? We can bash Charles Darwin but he might well be the Prophet of Truth. Should I make it funny by saying “Only God Knows”? So Am I doomed by thinking this way or do I still have a chance as in Islam we believe God loves the humans 70 times more than a mother would love her children. Why would God put people of different faiths in hell because they did not believe in the “right religion” especially when there is so much confusion around? Here is something more for the food of thought, if I was born in Hindus I will be a Hindu. It’s easy to say go and search the “right religion” but it is not realistic. First it is very hard to break ties with your family (think about an average person) because of conversion and the other fact is; you tend to believe you are the on the right religion. It’s a “Gambhir” topic and I won’t add anything to it but Ghalib’s Poetry:

    Na tha kuch to khuda tha
    Kuch na hota to khuda hota
    Daboya mujh ko hone ne
    Na hota mien to kia hota

    I personally think that my cure could be in Mystic Islam and if life permits I’ll visit Multan and Ajmair Sharif to seek my spirituality until then I’ll keep faking it.

    About the Dhukkans and Chennai game, I predict Chennai wins.

  124. #124 by Awas on May 27, 2008 - 3:07 PM

    Theossa

    Wah wah…wah wah…Zara kooch aur urz keeje-aye.

    By the way, the answer to that poetic riddle is “khuda”. Mullahs in those days scorned Mirza Ghalib for committing Shirk. So when all of us return, we’ll have to put you in the dock to decide your fate and the court will be presided by Mr MYK. Anyways, very philosophical, I am impressed!!!

    On your Chennai prediction, I better not disagree ;)-

  125. #125 by theossa on May 27, 2008 - 3:46 PM

    Awas, come on you pussy, pick your own team.

  126. #126 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 27, 2008 - 4:02 PM

    theossa

    Aap nay bahot hee munasib aur taqleedi sher farmaya. Ghalib ki iss nazm ka agla misra bhee ho jai tou baat bun jai aur wo hai:

    hui muddat ke GAHLIB murr gaya par yaad aata hai,
    wo har ek baat pay kehna kay yun hota tou kya hota?

    goya kay baat phirwohi “IF’s aur Salman’s Butt” par agayee. I am thinking like a Pathan here. 🙂 Jokes aside, the reality is even if the universe was not created, even if humans were not created or existed, God would have still existed, as He was there before the creation of this universe and He will be there to run it as He was there before. Therefore, the non-existence of non-existence is – existence. This is some mystic sufi mental pabulum for theossa to contemplate about existence.

    As for the result of this match between Dhukkans and Chennai, who cannot predict it? The way the two big “G’s” opened the innings and played like real big “G’s” and put the rest of the team under pressure, they have no chance whatsoever. Other than RP Sing and Afridi there is no bowler in their team.

  127. #127 by Mohammed Munir on May 27, 2008 - 4:44 PM

    This post is a bit out of its time and may sound a day or two late, but what-the-heck, take it in your stride. (Yes I am late).

    Kasim Sahab …

    LOL @ Somnath Ka Mandir with all the guys’ names too.

    Javed Khan …

    LOL @ Andheri Nagri, Chowpat Raaj. (Baat Sey Baat Nikaalna Tu Koi Aap Sey Seekhay) 😉

    You are right, I got a bit carried away with Phirwohi being from Pune and asking him about ‘so and so’. However, the ‘so and so’ is a recognized first-class Muslim player from India and also have international career to his name. This guy is a colleague and a very close friend of mine, and the only reason he could not play for India is that at those times Indian team had ‘an unwritten rule’ of playing only one Muslim player and Ajjoo Bhai (Mohammad Azharuddin) made it before him. So he finally ended-up playing a few ODIs for UAE. I give below the link to this ‘so and so’.

    http://content-gulf.cricinfo.com/other/content/player/25541.html

    Now I agree he may not be as big as London Bridge or Big Ben, but he is no mean guy 😉

    On the other hand and totally for academic purposes, UAE’s population has crossed 4.00 Million, though you are right majority of them are still expatriates.

    Mumbai Ambanians played a good game with Rajasthan Ro-Yals, and the result was also equally good for moi 😉

    Dhakkans remained that way, and are a perfect ‘Ism-e-ba Mussama’. As expected Afridi disappointed with his dismal batting performance. Some may argue that he is a better bowler, well I say “MAY BE”.

  128. #128 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 27, 2008 - 4:47 PM

    phirwohi

    you must be nervously biting your nails by now as the Chennai Super Kings are inching towards a victory. Nail biting is a bad habit, its hard to kick it off. Here is something for you to smile.

    A young woman who was worried about her habit of biting her fingernails was advised by a friend to take up yoga. She did, and soon her fingernails were growing normally.

    Seeing this, her friend congratulated her and said yoga had totally cured her nervousness. “No,” she replied, “but now I can reach my toe-nails so I bite them instead.

  129. #129 by theossa on May 27, 2008 - 4:47 PM

    Javed’s quote, “The non-existence of non-existence is existence”. So for the money making machine called “Khansahab” and the guy whose hands smell like British Pound i.e. “Awas” it is mathematically explained as, “Negative times negative is positive”.

    My take on current Pakistani bowlers:

    M. Asif, the best test bowler Pakistan have, Good with the new ball in ODIs, and not a Twenty20 material.

    Umar Gul, Good test bowler, good ODI bowler, good Twenty20 bowler (better than Tanvir in Twenty20 when fully fit but Tanvir will catch up with more exposure)

    Sohail Tanvir, potentially excellent ODI bowler, good Twenty20 bowler, I’m not sure about his test match skills but he is just 23. Please don’t compare him to Wasim Akram, Tanvir has a long way to go.

  130. #130 by Awas on May 27, 2008 - 5:11 PM

    Theossa

    ;(-…thanks! My team? It was Deccans to begin with but my allegiance quickly changed to the Rajput’s of Rajasthan.

    On Sohail Tanvir, someone earlier mentioned “the new Wasim Akram” but I think people jump the gun just like when Irfan Pathan came on the scene; he was being compared to Wasim Akram too. But undoubtedly, the man of this IPL series, so far at least, has been Sohail Tanvir.

  131. #131 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 27, 2008 - 5:35 PM

    Right now the game between Dhukkans and Chennai is a mere formality. Had Sarvesh taken the return catch of Dhoni on his first ball, things would have been more interesting, now it seems like a one sided affair.

    Awas

    U r rite about people jumping with conclusions and start comparing the new comers even before they have performed consistently. Not only Tanvir and Pathan were compared to Wasim Akram. Suresh Raina was talked about as the new Tendulkar, he went into oblivion and only revived himself in this IPL tournament. Salman Butt was compared with Saeed Anwar and look at him. Asif was compared to Glen McGrath, I mean come on guys give them a break, let them be themselves.

    As regards Pakistani players performance, if you look at historically none of them have ever performed in tournaments where they were not playing for the home team. Example in World XI or Tsunami XI or Asia vs. Africa or Rest of the World vs. Australia, there is not a single performance from anyone of them that could be remembered.

    These are the same players of the recently concluded WC T20 in SA and reached the finals and lost in a nail biting thriller. phirwohi, are you still biting your nails? Or you got the idea of biting toe-nails?

    On the subject of nail biting if you let your imagination go wild, think about the endless possibilities of how the rich and famous would do this? Perhaps they would hire someone to bite their nails for them to counter nervousness. Imagine Bill Gates in a meeting with two secretaries on his left and right and two more under the table biting his toe-nails. (we are not talking about Bill Clinton here.)

    Taking it further, theossa would you be a nail biter for J’Lo? Fingernails are composed of layers of keratin which is a protein so apart from pleasure, pay you get protein in your diet 😉

    I want some response here, lets see who can be more creative here!

  132. #132 by theossa on May 27, 2008 - 5:46 PM

    Javed, Keratin might well be a good protein but how much of it would I be getting from toe nails? How about I go for the sweet spot i.e. right at her Butts and leave bite marks there? That thing looks like a 100 lbs source of high quality protein enriched with omega fats. Problem is I won’t do that, being Pathan it is more likely that I will leave some table spoon of my own proteins in there.

  133. #133 by Awas on May 27, 2008 - 6:08 PM

    Theossa
    “some table spoon of my own proteins”… What???…sound a bit like what the donors do…blood that is!

    Dheeraj bhai dheeraj…there are some bazurg and bachey here…

  134. #134 by theossa on May 27, 2008 - 6:14 PM

    Awas, I thought you were one of the moderators! LoL….Hey Geminis are dual-natured. So you can find me as philosopher but I can’t help my naughty other who rocks.

  135. #135 by Awas on May 27, 2008 - 6:17 PM

    Moderate…definitely! You have to give some regard to my beard though…LOL.

  136. #136 by theossa on May 27, 2008 - 6:23 PM

    Why Awas, did my post made hair of your beard erected?

  137. #137 by abdul on May 27, 2008 - 6:55 PM

    Theossa, we are yet to talk on this wonderful blog. I know we have some similarities together one is cricket and the other is the complexed subject of xxxxxxx which we both are strong at. So allow me to ask u some general questions Hows life in America and what do u do? Do u play cricket and who are your favourite players.

    Anyway back to talking cricket it’s Chenai superstars who graduate to the semis.Well batted Suresh Raina he certainly was a superst

  138. #138 by abdul on May 27, 2008 - 6:57 PM

    Has anyone watched the cricket film LAGGAN ?

    I must say it was a fantastical historical cricket story put into a great movie.

    And did anyone watch the zee cine awards and agreee with them ?

  139. #139 by M. Y. Kasim. Houston. Tx. on May 27, 2008 - 7:10 PM

    Awas,

    You did’nt get the point. Comparing Miss Armstrong and others with those rotten-rats I reffered like Salman Rushdie, von Gough, and that despicable cartoonist and more recently, whats his name? who has issued that YouTube, is completely out place.

    As Phirwohi has very aptly pointed out, it is we who made them famous and turned these rotten-rats into “celebrity.”

    I remeber back then when Rushdie published his book “The Satanic Verses” with the backing and money with the intention of provoking the Islamic World, he and his backers succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.

    Innocent and illitrate people were incited by stupid and selfish Mullahs and people started burning Tires, Shops, Petrol Pumps, Cars, Properties with the result that Police and even Army were compelled to shoot and quell the tumoil.

    Think for a moment. It was not only in Pakistan. This was the case throghuout the world, even in the western countries. Whose lives were lost? Whose properties were destroyed? Who suffered due to protest strikes?

    It was a trash. Had we ignored it, it would have ended the whole conspiracy. Since we succumb to it, they knew our weakness and planted their agents and have started this campaign at regular intrval to keep us off-balance.

    Some two years ago, a movie “The Passion” was released and some murmur was heard. But the shrewed Jewish people ignored it. There was not a review even. What happened? It flopped at the box office.

    God has given you brain. Use it. It is not a “Amana.” If you use it, it will not be “Khyana.”

  140. #140 by Awas on May 27, 2008 - 7:28 PM

    I just got home from work.

    Theossa, yeah…they get static you see…as I habitually stroke my beard…

  141. #141 by theossa on May 27, 2008 - 7:45 PM

    Abdul, I’m about to leave for home but I’ll write a few words. Life in America is good, lots of job oppurtunities, people are very nice, and chicks are hot and they come in all kind of variety. Actually it’s more of phases of life one goes through that define oneself and not a particular country. Like you are young, that phase of life is very charming and exciting. My advise to you is; keep chasing money and chicks will never quit chasing you. If you started chasing gals and you forgot about your goals in life then get readay for some roller coaster life. I’m a Transportation Engineer by profession and work for the U.S. Department of Transportation. I’m happily married. After lots of trials finally I got the one I was looking for but only after finishing education and landing a job. I play cricket with a tennis ball wrapped in electric tape but that’s the farthest I could come unlike you, who could be a professional cricketer one day and can get all the fame and wealth in the world not to mention plenty of ladies. Hey, we might see you play for IPL one day and we will talk like, “this guy doesn’t post on Legslip anymore”. My favorite bastmen are Gilchrist and Lara. My favorite bowlers are Warne, Akram, and Waqar Younis.

  142. #142 by M. Y. Kasim. Houston. Tx. on May 27, 2008 - 8:06 PM

    Another point. “You” means not “you” personally, it means the whole Muslim community.

    When we were living in Kharadhar in Karachi in 1948, Mr. Abdul Sattar Edhi was struggling to set-up his charitable clinic in nearby Mithadhar. I, along with my cousins, school-mates, friends and neighbors used to go around our designated areas to collect sacrifial animal’s hide and skins for three days.

    Since we had no way to transport it, the poor Pathans, Balochis and Makranis extended their help by providing us with their vans, which very few and hand carts and donkey carts which were in abundance free of charge.

    It lasted three years before the “Thekedars” of Islam, The Jama’at-i-Islami and its student arm, IJT came along and contested with us for the booty.

    They first tried to convince us that what Edhi Saab is doing is “un-Islamic” and by helping him, we are comitting “Kufr.” They even issued fatwas “cheaper by dozens” when we dis-regarded and finally resorted to strong arm methods.

    Those Pathans, Balochs and Makranis who escorted us were furios but we asked them to calm down and the matter was referred to Edhi Saab.

    He decided that we would not go out to collect it anymore and whosoever wish to donate should arrange to do so himself.

    That was the end of my big adventure of social service and a huge lesson to keep away from those Mullahs and Moulvis.

  143. #143 by khansahab on May 27, 2008 - 8:44 PM

    Abdul,

    I didn’t like Lagaan at all, it bored me completely and I couldn’t understand what the villagers in the movie were saying either.

    No I’ve not seen Zee Cine Awards. I only watch the highlights of the awards because the dances and songs in the middle really do my head in.

    Also I don’t like Shahrukh Khan and I hate to see him winning awards constantly when I consider him an overrated actor.

  144. #144 by khansahab on May 27, 2008 - 9:24 PM

    Theossa,

    Yep I’m a money making machine that makes money for a big company but I don’t get to pocket all that money I make 🙂

    Voltaire said, “If there was no God it would necessary to invent him”.

    My take on the issue is, logic or reason tells us that all existence has to have a start from somewhere except a sole and singular entity that has been there forever. The pioneers of logic and reason, the scientists and theorists argue that there is no God because everything has to have a starting point or triggering event. Yet they do not realise the fundamental flaw in their arguments that, they keep going round in circles and actually present a problem rather than a solution. Amongst the many things that makes this Entity singular, the only one of a kind (to quote half of Surah Ikhlas, “He begetteth not nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him”] is that this Entity does not have a “starting point” which makes it distinct to ALL OTHER EXISTENCE in that everything has a birth and everything will perish one day. All Existence (which includes God for he “exists”] is divided into 2 broad categories in my opinion: the Creator and his creation.

    Our minds function with logic and reason. We can only reason to an extent. We have to provide justifications and proof to validate our reasons, our thoughts, our findings, our stances. Yet we fail to realise that our no matter how intelligent or well read we may be, we do not understand God, we do not understand what He is really, how He works, how He intends to deal with us or anything like that. It is the test of this belief, to place faith in this Entity no matter how doubtful our “logical” minds may consider His Existence to be, that is the hallmark and true challenge of Islam, and what will determine the longevity, success and ultimate destiny of this Deen.

    So in my view, we cannot understand this Entity using the logic, intelligence or reason of our minds because we are incapable of doing so. He is a different “Zaath” or different “substance” or “material” to the objects we can use our logic and reason on. You cannot use logic to question or know about this Entity who has created you from a grain or seed or whatever you may call. For us, logic or reason is something that defines our very humanness. We can’t use our human instincts and feelings to question or define something that is beyond anything we can vaguely comprehend.

    The fact is, whatever the ultimate Truth about Existence is, we are “here” and this is “reality”. Again I revert to my argument of “everything bar one thing has to have a start and finish. That is the only logical way I surmise Existence”.

    Now you may have noticed, I am using logic and reason here to put forward arguments for not using our logic and reason to assess God. I am a lawyer and my job is to put forward arguments and try and make them convincing 🙂

  145. #145 by JAVED A. KHAN on May 27, 2008 - 10:32 PM

    A lot of people visit our blog and some don’t comment they only come to read. My request to them is, ‘go ahead don’t be shy, post your comments and let others read and enjoy too.’

    Now, here is a fact, within 45 minutes of posting six new pictures in the “Hot Gals” section there has been a new hit every minute. For those who do not know should know that the blog administrators comments and visits are not recorded as hits. We don’t want to post a visit meter here, “Kaheen nazar na lag jai” 🙂

    Once again, don’t feel shy go ahead and comment. Its like giving. “Mountain streamlets might think they have nothing to give it to the ocean because they are not rivers.” Give what you have or share what you have to, for some it may be more than significant which you may have been thinking as an insignificant contribution. Thank You in advance.

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