Rogue Players & Champions Trophy

The ICC is satisfied with the level of security in place for next month’s Champions Trophy in Pakistan. But, there are certain elements who are continuing to be rogue and remain less than convinced. Their motive is only to sway the Champions Trophy away to some other country where there is glitz, glamour, girls and booze.

A few days ago, the ICC recruited Pakistani coach Geoff Lawson in a bid to convince the best players of Australia, NZ, England and SA to play at the Champions Trophy in Pakistan. Haroon Logart the ICC CEO, hailed the decision of appointing him as the ambassador or the coordinator with these countries as Lawson being an Australian lives in Lahore and assured their countrymen that the players have never been targeted or they are at risk.

Lorgat also said that the task force would visit Australia, New Zealand and England in an attempt to convince the players to tour Pakistan. One group, which will be led by the ICC’s David Richardson, will meet with Cricket Australia on Friday, with Ricky Ponting and Michael Clarke representing the team. Following the ICC board’s decision last month to go ahead with the tournament in Pakistan, the players’ associations in Australia, England, New Zealand and South Africa had raised concerns over the security situation, even warning of a possible boycott. Similar doubts were echoed by the international captains Graeme Smith, Kevin Pietersen and Ricky Ponting.

Haroon Logart is more than satisifed with the security issue in Pakistan

Haroon Logart is more than satisifed with the security issue in Pakistan

Its a shame that Graeme Smith and his big old boys were in Pakistan last year and they’ve won the test and ODI series and were very happy with that. In fact after their arrival in Pakistan and prior to the matches they complained about too much security and now they have expressed concerns over security.

Some Aussies have written on other blogs that bombings are an everyday affair in Pakistan and the players’ lives are at risk, it is only a game of cricket so why should they take chances? First of all it is not an every day affair in the major cities, secondly the disturbances are at the border with Afghanistan and that is hundreds if not thousand miles away from Karachi and Lahore. Thirdly they are only a handful of people who are doing this against the government and their motive, agenda or aim is not against cricket players and cricket is watched in Pakistan by everyone.

In China right after the commencement of the Olympics several bombs went off in Xin Jiang, did they call off the Olympics? The response was, it is thousands of miles away from Beijing and some Islamists have done that.

In London during the time Ashes were being played at Lords just a couple of miles from the Lords cricket ground, the whole underground came to a halt in the wake of July 7 bombings and the match continued. Because, some Islamists have done that.

All people remember that 11 years ago when New Zealand were touring Pakistan a bomb blasted in the nearby hotel and they took the next flight to Wellington.

During the IPL at Rajhastan when several bombs shook the city of Jaipur the match that was scheduled to be played at Jaipur was in jeopardy because some of the Sissy Australian players wanted the venue to be shifted from Jaipur to Bangalore but that did not happen the venue was not shifted and they played. Because, they knew that the money was at stake and they kept quiet and played the match in Jaipur as per the schedule.

Why is that the Australians, NZ, England and South African players are always reluctant to play in Pakistan? Prior to this so-called terrorist threat, which always existed in the UK by the IRA bombers, these teams used to complain about a dull and boring tour to India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. Now they find a lot of booze, glitz, glamour and money in India they don’t complain against India but they have their reservation about Pakistan and airing a fear from terrorism is the easiest thing they can do.

If these players are not willing to visit Pakistan for the Champions Trophy their respective cricket boards must be asked to send a national team irrespective of who the players are and if they boycott the tournament then they should be penalized heavily.

In any case this dual standard, biases, prejudices must be removed and that is only possible when the ICC put their foot down and say NO just like Lalit Modi did in case of shifting the venue from Jaipur to Bangalore. It is only then these countries will behave. Spare the rod and spoil the child, these BIG BOYZ are already rotten and spoiled and they don’t need spanking on their Butts but they need to be punished differently i.e., by imposing bans on their playing international cricket. How many of you agree with this is something we need to discuss here on this blog.

  1. #1 by JAVED A. KHAN on August 13, 2008 - 1:45 PM

    At the moment every stone is being unturned and every possible move to make the grounds, stadiums, venues, hotels, etc. secured from every possible risk, but no one can be certain that nothing will happen till or during the time the Champions Trophy will be played in Pakistan.

    My heart says nothing will happen but, my mind says everything is possible in Pakistan and just a handful of people or one lunatic can make the difference and that will be a shame if they allow these cowards to succeed. But, the point is no one has ever threatened to disrupt the matches or it ever happened in Pakistan that players have been targeted, yet some people are skeptical. And, if at all it happens, then these so-called big players or big losers will emerge as big winners. Its time for us to speculate, its time for us to pray and its time for us to hope nothing will happen and cricket will emerge as the biggest winner. Inshallah.

  2. #2 by Rehan Khan on August 13, 2008 - 2:01 PM

    javed, you are spot on in your analysis. you cant get booze easily in pakistan which is why symonds& co are so reluctant. if there are bombs going off in sri lanka, india or england they will play happily as long as there is security. pakistan has always provided a lot of security to its visitors in fact more security than other countries but some players are still reluctant. the terrorists in pakistan are attacking their own countrymen. if they wanted to attack any foreigners why didnt they attack south africans, why didnt they attack indians, why didnt they attack sri lankans? there are embassies in islamabad which are not more secure than how much secure these cricketers are going to be. why arent these embassies being attacked. maybe 1 or 2 embassies have been attacked in the last year but they are isolated incidents. the terrorist problem is going on in the tribal areas in north pakistan, karachi and lahore are very secure. this champions trophy is very important for pakistan, if it goes ahead without any problems the pakistani people and PCB, everyone will be the beneficiary.

  3. #3 by khansahab on August 13, 2008 - 7:13 PM

    New Zealand in Pakistan 2008

    Pakistan won’t host New Zealand series

    Cricinfo staff

    August 13, 2008

    New Zealand’s visit Pakistan for a three-match ODI series in the lead-up to the Champions Trophy has been cancelled, according to the PCB. New Zealand originally agreed to the tour, which would have given them a good chance to acclimatise ahead of the main eight-team event.

    But New Zealand are one of the teams that have shown reluctance to visit Pakistan for the Champions Trophy due to security concerns. New Zealand Cricket told the PCB it would reassess the security situation before confirming or cancelling the three ODIs, but Shafqat Naghmi, the PCB chief operating officer, said time had all but run out.

    “We have not received any positive reply from New Zealand Cricket and heavy rains in Punjab [province] where the three matches were planned did not make the series a possibility,” he said.

    The plan was to play three games in Multan and Faisalabad from August 24 to 30, which would have been their first visit to Pakistan in five years. The ICC is still trying to convince four countries, including New Zealand, that Pakistan will be a safe venue for the Champions Trophy.

  4. #4 by JAVED A. KHAN on August 13, 2008 - 10:01 PM


    NZ’s tour cancellation was something most people predicted it and they are the same team who would run for their life if a fire cracker explodes in Pakistan. The rain and floods in punjab is something that no one predicted. In any case the PCB must take into consideration this point while staging the CT matches in Lahore. Like most Asia Cup matches were staged in Karachi, they can do the same for CT.

    I really don’t know how this whole thing would be a success because of all the fears and concerns plus the rain, floods and on top of that Ramadan. Whether people would be coming to the stadium to watch these matches in Ramadan? These are not night matches so its very hard to say whether people will make it to the grounds during the day?

    Rehan Khan you have a point about embassies and diplomats residing in Pakistan and they move around freely its only the Danish Embassy was attacked and that was due to obvious reasons and it was not just in Pakistan but in a few other Islamic countries as well. But, that has nothing to do with cricket.

    If there is anyone responsible for the situation in Pakistan, it is the current government with the two crooks and criminals ruling that party. Its been more than 4 months and they have been able to do nothing except for blaming President Musharaff and vowing to settle personal vendetta against him. What people don’t remember is Nawaz Sharif when he was in power, he himself made illegal amendments (13th & 14th) in the constitution and he also sacked the Supreme Court of Pakistan’s Chief Justice Sajjad Ali Shah and sacked the chief of army Musharaf and also sacked Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Mansur Ul Haq.

    He blames Musharaf for being America’s puppet for allowing the US troops to land in Pakistan after 9/11 whereas he himself was toyed by Bill Clinton when he ordered the withdrawal of troops from Kargil and because of his action 4000 troops were killed while retreating and he now blames Musharaf for that because he was the army chief then, but the direct orders come from the Prime Minister and he was the Prime Minister then. And by virtue of the 13th and 14th amendment he was considering himself as indispensable and invincible.

    Everyone in the country knows how corrupt Zardari and Nawaz Sharif are and yet those who voted for PPP and PML (N) actually voted for these two criminals and its a shame that these two are not even elected by the people yet they are ruling the country. What more worst one can happen to a country when crooks and criminals are ruling the country?

  5. #5 by ahmed11 on August 13, 2008 - 10:29 PM

    javed a khan, khansahab, rehan khan

    quite valid points by all. cricket is loved by pakistani public so much that to think a cricketer’s life is in danger is very stupid. if there was 1 foreign team coming the risk would be greater but this is a tournament for all the teams. therefore the risk is minimal in fact non existent i would say.

    about the pindi stadium, its a shame it is not up to international standards. i remember 10 years ago national stadium in karachi was on the verge of being declared unsuitable for international games. meanwhile lahore was our top stadium and still is, but even that needs lots of renovation work. what has the PCB been doing man in the past 10 years. they have ruined the whole cricket structure in the country

    i liked the additions to this site, these videos in “Great Videos” are really good. and of course your HOT GALS is superb, keep it up! πŸ™‚

    on this thread i guess its OK to discuss a bit about politics. Javed a khan, yeah the country is being ruled by 2 crooks now. i dont know why people bothered voting for them, they are totally corrupt, unable and incompetent. there is so much instability in the country, if these people loved pakistan they would have tried to cure the problems in the country like loadshedding, inflation, law and order. they have no agenda on combatting extremism in the northern areas and they are really stuck because they will have to follow america’s commands and yet they have no idea how they will achieve these objectives. this is because they wana get rid of musharraf, thats all they care about.

    btw wasnt it nawaz shareef’s goons that attacked the supreme court (causing damage to property and also assaulted senior barristers and officials) in 1989?

  6. #6 by Tauqeer Malik on August 13, 2008 - 10:37 PM

    if these top players ponting, andrew symonds and south african players dont want to play in pakistan, we dont want them in our country. let them go to hell.

    we can have a good tournament without these players too. champions trophy should be played in pakistan and it should not be moved to neutral venue. in such a big tournament people will come to watch despite ramzan.

    inshallah the series will go ahead. all the best to pakistan. TM

  7. #7 by khansahab on August 14, 2008 - 1:05 AM

    Nice to see some regulars returning.


    Yes I read about renovation work being carried out at Lahore and I was also surprised about the Rawalpindi stadium. I’ve heard the Multan stadium is a good one but I don’t know why it doesn’t stage many matches. By the way it was indeed Nawaz Sharif’s men who attacked the Supreme Court in 1988. Among the perpetrators were Tariq Aziz and Javed Hashmi. Although I think Musharraf should have resigned a long time back I agree with you that he is better than Zardari and Nawaz. Pakistan needs democracy but PPP and PML N are not the answer.

    Rehan Khan

    You are right, Pakistan is not a threat to any cricketer. That is what Lawson is trying to tell the other countries, or has been “hired” by the PCB to tell other countries. Hope he will be able to instill some sense into them.

  8. #8 by JAVED A. KHAN on August 14, 2008 - 1:09 AM

    Tim May wants more action in Pakistan Read his comments using the link from cricinfo below.

    Tim May, the chief executive of the global players’ union, believes Pakistan must do more to ensure the safety of players at next month’s Champions Trophy.

    What more does he want? Does he want the security forces to bring down the Milky Way and put it in front of May’s foot? I think Tim May deserves a kick in the butt.

  9. #9 by JAVED A. KHAN on August 14, 2008 - 1:14 AM


    KARACHI, Aug 12: The International Cricket Council on Tuesday announced a revised schedule of next month’s Champions Trophy after dropping Rawalpindi as one of the three venues.

    According to the new programme, all the matches will now be confined to Lahore and Karachi with tournament starting from Sept 12 instead of Sept 11. Lahore will stage eight matches while Karachi will host seven games in the 15-match tournament.

    In the original schedule, which was announced in March, Rawalpindi was scheduled to stage five matches including the game between defending champions Australia and hosts Pakistan and the second semi-final.

    That semi-final will now be played in Lahore on Sept 26 with the final two days later in the same city.

    Following is the revised schedule of ICC Champions Trophy:

    Sept 12: Pakistan v West Indies (Lahore).

    Sept 13: Australia v India (Karachi).

    Sept 14: England v Sri Lanka (Lahore).

    Sept 14: South Africa v New Zealand (Karachi).

    Sept 15: Pakistan v Australia (Karachi).

    Sept 16: South Africa v Sri Lanka (Lahore).

    Sept 17: England v New Zealand (Lahore).

    Sept 18: India v West Indies (Karachi).

    Sept 19: New Zealand v Sri Lanka (Lahore).

    Sept 20: Pakistan v India (Karachi).

    Sept 21: Australia v West Indies (Lahore).

    Sept 21: England v South Africa (Karachi).

    Sept 24: First semi-final (Karachi).

    Sept 26: Second semi-final (Lahore).

    Sept 28: Final (Lahore).

  10. #10 by Amit. P on August 14, 2008 - 5:34 AM

    First of all, Happy Independence day to all our Pakistani visitors, posters, moderators and pakistani junta in general. Hope u all enjoy the day with ur family, friends (gf in particular πŸ˜€ ), and ur favorite dishes.

    Now coming to this topic, i think we are being little harsh on these players who dont want to participate in CT. True, they are over reacting … but they got some valid point. I am not viewing this scenario from outside …. i am putting myself and my country in this situation. What if some unpleasant incidents occur during next WC in india … who will take responsibility ….. BCCI ? or indian masses ? If india fail to curb these terrorist bombings then why blame those players who dont want to come in our country. Hoping that these bombers love cricket and wont attack players, is a very weird argument. If they can kill innocent masses including kids and women then we can safely assume that these guys can do anything. Infact they wud love to target players, this way they can caught the attention of many countries and their motive in spreading terror will be highly successful. Since now they haven’t targeted any player just beacuase it is very difficult to do so. Placing bombs in crowded area is always easy than go through all security channels and do the damage there.

    Now as a host what wud we expect from other countries ? … First players shud not spread their own fears among others, like symonds and ponting were doing from last one or two months. To get frighten is one thing and to show fear is another. We want their patience …. to wait till the arrival of tournament …. and will show our security and all … if they still dont want to come then its fine. Pontings will be replaced by Husseys or any other players who are willing to participate.

  11. #11 by mian mukhtar younas on August 14, 2008 - 9:21 AM

    i know you guys love afridi but why is he in the team. as long as pervez is president, nasim ashraf is chairman and sallu is selector we will keep seeing players like afridi. he should be dropped and mansoor amjad was the ideal youngster to take his place. afridi will keep on playing i guess. he contributes nothing to the team and is only there to oppose the captain and cause politics and friction. he is a failure.

  12. #12 by khansahab on August 14, 2008 - 1:42 PM

    Amit P

    Thanks so much for congratulating us. I wish this day had come at a time when the social, political and economic situation in the country was better but it is still something that needs to be celebrated I guess.

    I understand your views about why players are being cautious about playing in Pakistan. However, the attacks in Pakistan are mainly being targeted on security forces and the Army. Women and children have hardly been targeted. This is just a strategy to create chaos in the country. Even yesterday’s blast in Lahore was targeted at a police station. I can understand your “outsider” view completely though, I guess most people in other countries would also be thinking the same. In order to assess why these terrorist attacks are happening one must understand the politics of the country first. And that of course will be best understood by the people who reside in that country.

    The problem is, to be fair to non Pakistanis, that the frequency of these attacks is just so high that people get worried and think, “…….what if? What if I get killed or injured in one of these blasts, regardless of where I am staying or what I am doing?” I think it’s this fear which is acting as the biggest deterrent. But I still feel the ICC and cricket boards should have done more to educate players and assure them their lives would be safe in Pakistan. Cricket boards should help each other out. Pakistanis are thankful to India for supporting Pakistan as a venue for the Champions Trophy. Indians don’t feel as threatened as the English, Australians, New Zealanders and South Africans feel, though.

    After yesterday’s blast in Lahore I am sure some nerves have been unsettled in the ICC and they must be thinking, that bombers are not restricted to the Northern Areas now. This means there is a chance this competition may not go ahead.

    Mian Saab,

    I cay say a lot in defence of Musharraf, Nasim Ashraf and Salahuddin, but all I will say to you is that Afridi is a senior player now and it is unfortunate he is not being considered for captaincy by the team management. Mansoor Amjad didn’t seem like a great talent to me. His bowling was OK but his batting looked really weak. I think Afridi is a better bowler and batsman than Amjad. I also don’t feel Amjad can take over Kaneria as Pakistan’s main Test spinner. Mansoor has potential but he needs to develop his game more before playing at the highest level.

  13. #13 by JAVED A. KHAN on August 14, 2008 - 1:52 PM


    Thank you for the greetings and the good wishes on the Independence Day of Pakistan. On behalf of LS management and friends I would like to reciprocate the same feelings to our Indian friends, bloggers, readers on India’s Independence Day tomorrow August 15th.

    Since you have touched the subject of Independence albeit in a very casual manner, I will take this as an opportunity to express my feelings about the independence, the purpose, the aim and how it was exploited by a few who are in a majority now.

    In my opinion the partition or the division of India or, the creation of Pakistan was a very good thing to have happened. But, each year it also brings back sad memories and it reminds us of “the massacre of the century” that took place after that, which was more like a genocide. It is very unfortunate that those who were for the partition were not from the present Pakistan’s geographical location. They were mainly the Muslims from all over India which is now on the other side of the border. But, they are treated like trash.

    Punjab Muslims were totally against the creation of Pakistan till the last moment and did everything possible to prevent it from happening, but today they are the biggest beneficiaries in terms of exploiting the country and very proudly they say that it is their Pakistan. Whereas, those who made the sacrifices were across the border from all over India, they left their homes, belongings, jobs, even families and came to Pakistan and a lot of them could not even make it.

    It is also worth noting from the history books and from people of age, some of them are still alive to tell the horrible tales of migration about how the Muslims from south of India or from the central parts of India were not killed in Madhya Pradesh or Uttar Pradesh but, they were brutally massacred in the East Punjab and near the border. That was because Punjab was against the partition.

    Some of the top notch leaders of NWFP like the brother of Bacha Khan (Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan) was openly against the partition. Also, the Khan of Qallat from Baluchistan was against it. Even after the creation of Pakistan in 1947 he officially approached the British and Indian government in 1948 with a plea to include Baluchistan in India but, his request was denied.

    Except for Pir Pagara’s father from Sindh, who was a freedom fighter and was hanged by the British forces on charges of treason, the rest of the Sindh population was against the creation of Pakistan. Being a Pathan myself and after reading, knowing and hearing so much about the sacrifices made by the Indian Muslim population who are still known as Mohajirs or Immigrants, I really salute them for their courageous efforts and for making so many sacrifices in creating an Independent country for the Muslims of the sub-continent. It is very unfortunate that they are still being exploited and treated like third class citizens of Pakistan.

    Personally, I don’t like the MQM leader or their party and I had always detested this idea within Pakistan. But, come to think of the reality and view yourself from their position or, as the expression goes be in their shoes and feel it, I think the creation of MQM is in retaliation against the dominance of Punjab in Pakistan. Even in Karachi where the so-called mohajirs dwell in majority there is Punjab’s dominance.

    Perhaps most outsiders are not aware that prior to MQM all the majority of the important posts – such as the IG Police, Commissioner of Police, the whole of PIA top brass which is in Karachi and many more of these posts – were taken by the Punjabis and things haven’t changed much in the PIA.

    It is for this reason that they have raised slogans of jingoism against them, against regionalism which has crept and spread all over Pakistan and it is for this reason some of the cricket players from Karachi are not selected for the national team and any mediocre Punjabi player is preferred over a good Karachi player.

    I would like to switch from politics to cricket now because politics is a dirty word and discussing Pakistani politics is NOT like discussing criminology because the study of criminology includes prevention of crime, whereas the crooks and criminals ruling the country today talk only about spreading the crime and making personal gains. That is their motto and that is their religion.

    It is very unfortunate for Pakistan that today’s so-called Independence is worst than imprisonment, its more like bondage and slavery its a state of subjugation of enslaving the masses by depriving them of their rights of freedom. The masses have been blinded by these rogue politicians.

    I think I will write about those rogue players separately because this comment has already been extended beyond expectations, even when I started it I didn’t think of writing all this what I wrote above. I certainly got carried away because of ——- Amit. πŸ™‚

    Amit; you made a very valid point and I will come back to that separately in my next comment.

  14. #14 by khansahab on August 14, 2008 - 3:41 PM

    Javed A Khan

    Sir, a truly brilliant piece of writing that could have only come from someone who calls a spade, a spade but manages to express himself eloquently and without insults, abuse and curses. I am really touched by the fairness you have demonstrated in your article and your desire to educate people less knowledgeable than you (like me) and to spread justice.

    What is justice? Al Pacino in the famous movie, “And Justice for all”, says justice is the establishment of the truth, the “spreading” of truth and the realisation of “what really happened”. The problem is, what we consider true, fair or honest is something that is triggered by our inherent biases and feelings, often without us realising it. How then do we establish which “truth” is the more realistic, or apt, or “true”?

    There are some qualities that are worth more than a million bucks. These qualities come through “good” in my opinion. Education, decency, respect, tolerance, fairness, honesty and justice, you will not find these qualities present in many men. As Muslims we believe religion is important and the purpose of religion is to establish morality, but the basic objective of religion is (should be) to establish these qualities in people. Hence “faith” is equally important.

    People who think an understanding of religion, faith, morals and the purpose of life can be attained without education, think wrong. In my opinion religion is like a science or theory that can only be interpreted and implemented correctly if one has these unqiue aforementioned qualities. Without these qualities a person becomes a bigot, an extremist either way (to extreme towards faith or too extreme away from faith). Religion is a powerful tool especially for Muslims, as it outlines their purpose in life. In the hands of someone mentally incapable of understanding religion, a lot of devastation and destruction can be caused on many levels, social, political, economic, religious, communal, whatever.

    Why do I say these things? Because Javed A Khan embodies all of these positive qualities which make his comments judicious, honest and hard hitting. Pathans are often perceived as a people of extremes- either too religious or completely lacking faith. In my experience educated Pathans are very wise and judicious people because honesty and straightforwardness is deep rooted in Pathan culture and that coupled with all of the aforementioned qualities, makes a very accomplished and respectable being.

    I will write more in response to Javed A Khan’s views later.

  15. #15 by JAVED A. KHAN on August 14, 2008 - 4:14 PM


    On your response about us being too harsh on the so-called rogue players who do not wish to participate in the CT in Pakistan you have aired some very useful thoughts and supported your views with some valid points. I do agree with you that anyone would be concerned about the situation. My only point was about their double standards and citing of two examples i.e., July 7 bombings in London and Jaipur bombings during the IPL tournament did not affect their psyche or they could not do much because, in London they were playing against their Masters in their motherland and in India they were playing for their GOD i.e., Money. Whereas in Pakistan they only see demons and terrorists.

    The fact is, these terrorists can be anywhere. That is why the subject of security arise here and Pakistan has always provided the best security to these players not just VIP type security but, akin to the one that is provided to the Head of the States. Therefore, to say that they show no mercy in killing innocent women and children, they will show no mercy in killing a cricket player is not the same because they will have to deal with the top security before reaching the players and any explosion even in the stadium is not possible because everyone is searched very minutely and closely. Besides, the players are on the field and in the pavilion or dressing rooms which are not accessible to a common man.

    So far no such incident took place but that doesn’t mean it may not happen, but anything can happen anywhere in the world, so there must always be a point of reconciliation or compromise. After all Geoff Lawson is staying there and he is not forced by anyone to tell the world how he feels about the situation. As far as the hospitality is concerned you can ask the Indian players how they are treated by the public. Restaurants and souvenir shop owners didn’t charge them by saying you are our guests, our neighbours, our brothers etc. Even a player like Ba-la-jee had fanfare in Lahore and Lums La’hore’s admire him.

    Therefore, Andrew Symonds, Ricky Punter, Granny Smith or whoever is taking about fear should shiver in their pyjamas and leave their balls behind in the hotel lockers when they go out, because the terrorists have no borders like the French say, “Terrorists Sans Frontiers” will get them by their balls.

  16. #16 by Zain on August 14, 2008 - 4:29 PM

    Javed Khan

    You have mentioned some very good points in your post and not only cleared some doubts about mqm but you have also exposed the punjabi crowd who are out there so blatantly brandishing their patriotism now and consider Pakistan as Punjabistan. I am from Karachi and I know how these people have exploited the people of Karachi and that is only because Karachi is the biggest sea port and the biggest city of Pakistan and all their textile mills and factories in Chiniot, Faisalabad and Lahore cannot flourish without exporting their goods to other countries unless they route their business through Karachi and for this reason they wanted to get hold over Karachi and control Karachi by hook or by crook.

    They are doing the same in every walk of life, in every field, department and in sports too. It is for this reason you will never find Karachi players in the national side unless he is an exceptional player like Javed Miandad. Even Javed Miandad was mistreated and removed from captaincy 2 times and removed from the position of national coach twice and they always find ways to humiliate him whereas he was the most honest player in the country unlike Wasim Akram, Waqar Younus, Mushtaq Ahmad, Saleem Malik and Ijaz Ahmad etc., who were loyal only to money and not for Pakistan. Wasim Akram is the worst of all, because he got a free hand as a captain and as a celebrity and made more money in betting and bribery than any player and he is extremely lucky to get away without any punishment. Even today he is not loyal to Pakistan like they say he is; “Putting His Money Where His Mouth Should Be.” Actually he is putting his mouth everywhere and anywhere to earn money.

  17. #17 by kaleem on August 14, 2008 - 4:59 PM

    WOW, man you guys are really intelligent and good people. i am not punjabi or muhajir but i am so impressed by your education and allover views. especially this javed a khan, you are a genius javed, your comments are always very intelligent and mature.

    i wish more and more people visit your site and learn the virtues of decency, morality, wisdom, tolerance, the things you talk about so often. along the way they will also learn loads about cricket and many other things

    great work and keep it up guys.

  18. #18 by mian mukhtar younas on August 14, 2008 - 5:41 PM


    you dont know what you are talking about. lol at your double standards. stop singing praise for miandad. javed miandad is after the chairman’s job and you want to see karachi XI playing for pakistan? you people talk about aamir sohail and wasim akram but your miandad is the one who talks the most and the one desperate for the top job. have you forgot about faisal iqbal, the failure in international cricket. miandad wants to promote his nephew and wants karachi XI to represent pakistan.

    what about his son’s wedding to dawood ibrahim’s daughter, he is from gangster background like Altaf bhai, no decent person marries into gansgter’s family unless he is a gansgter himself. lets see if you approve this comment.

  19. #19 by Zain on August 14, 2008 - 10:24 PM

    Mian Saab Mukhtaaray or Younas Pukkhay Walay? How should we address you? But I am not Ada naan or pura Naan I am Zain ul Abideen.

    I don’t know anything about Dawood Ibrahim except through the media that he is wanted in India for some terrorist acts. Reportedly that was also against one man Bal Tachkeray who is another Ghunda in Bombay and not only a Muslim hater but also a cricket hater. His disciples have time and again given threats to Pakistan team and invaded the pitch and dug out holes. So, if Dawood Ibrahim is against such people I don’t see anything wrong. And whatever he may be he is not a thief or a crook like Zardari and Nawaz Sharif. If Miandad’s son married to Dawood’s daughter whats wrong in it? At least he has married it in a Halal way unlike those crooks who get someone else’s daughter or sisters kidnapped. So you may keep your trap shut.

    Talking of Faisal Iqbal? At least he has one test hundred and 6 fifties as opposed to Majid Khan’s son Bazid Khan whose highest score is 23 and he got umpteenth number of chances and once again he has been selected because Majid Khan has used Mian Nawaz Sharif’s influence jiski na maa sharif na baap sharif sirf Babra Sharif urf Bho.Ra Sharif. Yunas Pukkha “Ray-Wus” may chal reha hai ab?

  20. #20 by khansahab on August 14, 2008 - 11:07 PM

    We wish our Indian visitors a very happy Independence Day!

  21. #21 by Ali Ahad on August 14, 2008 - 11:20 PM

    Alright test series is over, lankans bowling did exceptionally well in the series especially ‘Mendis’. A very great find. I am sure he will also become a bowler with suspect action once he will start playing against aussies? Anyways from my last post as expected Viru’s method to the madness is still the same. The fab four was not that fabulos in the entire series. Their batting records and averages now only look good on paper. People are writing off dada but I think he will make comeback as he is mentally strong than the other two. I say two because Laxman will be given another chance based on his two half centuries and Sachin because he has to break Lara’s record and cutains will be put on the WALL.

    As far as rouge players are concerned the only thing that Ponting & Co are scared of is that they cannot find any activities for after hours. Amit you are saying that we are harsh on the players but we are not. They have double standards when it comes to security. The NZ tour of Pakistan was called off because of a bomb blast in a nearby hotel and they took the next flight but their counterpart was still playing in Lords when the whole undergound comes to complete stop. These are some facts that you are also aware of Security is the secondary thing. I think DNA should ask Bush since he is leading the war on terror and he visited Pakistan in 2006 for a week and nothing happened. He also played some cricket with Inzi and Salman Butt during his visit so he has some knowledge about it too. πŸ™‚

  22. #22 by JAVED A. KHAN on August 15, 2008 - 12:31 AM

    Ali Ahad

    Mendis’s action is clear but, Murali’s doosra is definitely questionable so I am sure no one is going to raise any eyebrows over his action. He is a good bowler but he has to go a long way to prove that he is great and I would like to see him bowling against all other test playing nations in different countries before reaching to any conclusion or calling him a great bowler.


    you mentioned about a bomb blast in Lahore, I haven’t seen any news or heard but I won’t be surprised if it has happened. It would have been nice to see NZ playing 3 ODI’s prior to the CT in September but thats not going to happen and until and unless the whole Champions Trophy is over one cannot say for sure about the outcome so lets keep our fingers crossed and wait and see.

  23. #23 by Amit. P on August 15, 2008 - 8:30 AM

    Thanks everybody for congratulating very happy I. Day . Hope we all move one step froward toward peace and prosperity as two neighboring countries.

    Javed, ur comment ab’t independence was very sentimental one …undoubtedly it touched deep into some posters here. I, personally, like to believe on different stance on this issue. Many wud call it anti-india or anti-pakistan .. but i dont like to dig into history and analyze the psyche of those people involved into partition and project one a hero and another a villain. For me gandhi, nehru, jinnah, all are hero … not because one was pro-partition and other was anti .. but just because they are respected by their countrymen, so why shud i disagree. In fact both gandhi and jinnah, despite their huge differences in opinion and stance, used to respect each other … and for me this is the lesson to be learnt from history.

    Javed, khansaab & Ali,

    On rouge players ..
    I dont have any problems with someone boycotting tour or not attending CT … i have my grievance with ponting, symonds and smith …. they spread fear among other players (and boards too) … and hence mobilizing them to prove their own stance right. If someone has a problem in attending tour then he shud directly consult his own board rather going into media.


    Before 93 blast, both dawood and thakre were doing their own business without each other’s intervention or rivalry … it was “thekedars” of respective communities who tried to make these guys a hero of their own community. Pitching one bad guy against other cant make him a hero.

  24. #24 by khansahab on August 15, 2008 - 9:54 AM

    Amit P

    I respect your view about independence and your view is a unique one, and also a broad minded one. Jinnah and Mahatama Gandhi were very good friends. You can see what a huge factor Jinnah was in Gandhi’s life. When Gandhi was on his deathbed he told his friends and relatives that he only had one regret in life, that he could convince his son to mend his ways and follow his father’s teachings, and that he could not convince his friend Jinnah to stay with India.

    Nehru was different to Gandhi. Nehru was a lot like Jinnah, with a lot of fire in him and lot of dynamism. He was a commanding figure and kinda like an aristocrat, like Jinnah, whereas Gandhi was a simple and humble person. “Simple living and high thinking” is a quote by Gandhi which I really like. Both Jinnah and Nehru wanted to be in the limelight and it is publicly known that towards 1947 Nehru was getting convinced that perhaps the creation of Pakistan is a good idea, or perhaps the Hindu leaders should not intervene in the wishes of the Muslim League leaders. Gandhi was a secular and pro Muslim person, he wanted Jinnah to be the first PM of India, but Nehru did not want that and neither did Jinnah obviously, because by then he had made his mind Pakistan had to be achieved.

    And Amit P, you are right in saying that they were great people and the people of Pakistan and India should follow their teachings- they will become better human beings and they will become better countrymen too.

  25. #25 by Ali Ahad on August 15, 2008 - 10:39 AM

    We never have an excellent leader since Z.A. Bhutto was dangled. I know some of you may say he was the biggest dupe but the thing I like about him is that he always stood for Pakistan. I am not sure if you guys have watched that 1971 speech in UN regarding the bangladesh here is a glimpse:

    I know his dire dealings will outnumbered the good ones but the value of the good ones will out weight the bad ones and I always believe in quality rather than quantity. The problem with pakistani people is that even with so much information avaiable we cannot distinguish balck or white or I should say there is so much black in our society that we cannot see clear shade of white. BB was not a bad person but her husband is a big time cultript and he played a big part to tarnish her personality.

    Now he is ganged up with some one who even after hair treatment have the crimnal looks. People in Lahore in thait punjabi call him ‘Sada Sher’. The only things that ‘paindo’ did good to Pakistan in his whole time as prime minister was that of creating the motorway and the making Pakistan the nuclear state. I know our founders have laid the foundation to be a great nation and Pakistan is not that far away as it always takes time to become a great nation.

  26. #26 by khansahab on August 15, 2008 - 10:53 AM

    Amit P

    Just to elaborate on what I said earlier, you may be surprised to know that many people within Pakistan saw Jinnah as an opportunist and someone who was doing this to be in the limelight and have his name in the history books. There were people who had been living in peace with the Hindus with centuries and they thought if a country is formed with a Muslim majority it might affect their interests negatively.

    Bacha Khan was one such leader who was a real Pukhtoon. He was a proud Pathan who wanted the best for his people. In Pakistan people make fun of him and call him a jingoist, however I don’t think he was wrong for advocating what he thought was the best for his people. Bacha Khan was called “Sarhaddi Gandhi” or “Gandhi of the Frontier”. He was amongst Gandhi’s best friends and you will see many photos of him standing behind Gandhi in rallies and protests. Until the last moment he defied Jinnah and persuaded the Muslim League to stay with India. People who make fun of Pathans and have stereotypical concepts about Pathans should look at Bacha Khan and understand he was also a Pathan. He always encouraged Pathans to have pride in their roots and heritage but at the same time he always advocated peace and respect for all ethnicities and faiths. There is a difference being proud of your roots and being jingoistic and thinking you are superior to everyone else and that you should rule and dominate everyone else.

    He was an educated person, but at the same time he was devoutly religious and never did anything that detracted from faith. When it transpired Pakistan would be made and there would be an absolute Punjabi majority, Bacha Khan was concerned and tried for his people to join Afghanistan or have another country of their own called “Pukhtoonistan”. Unfortunately most Pakistanis hate him for this and he is perceived in large as a traitor and anti Punjab.

  27. #27 by khansahab on August 15, 2008 - 11:38 AM

    Ali Ahad

    I am really touched to see your patriotism and if only we had more Pakistanis like you. The leaders are role models for the governed. If the leaders are doing such notorious acts then what will the public do? Someone has to stand up and create an example.

    People like Imran Khan have tried to do that but it’s a sensitive issue and you need to think twice before saying something. You can’t say whatever comes inside your heart. Imran has no regional base firstly which means he will find it hard to mobilise a base which is necessary for every politician in a country like Pakistan. Most of the people who support Imran are the ones who are a bit more aware and bit more educated. However a significant chunk of these people are in Karachi but by being kinda blunt to some Karachiites, Imran has alienated some support and many of his party workers have joined MQM.

    Imran should have thought practically. The general population in Karachi is the type who would support him if he had not made anti Karachi comments. Our friend Theossa said that rural Punjab decides how Pakistan is to be governed and my advice to Imran would be to strengthen his base in Punjab if he wants to rise amongst the ranks. But he also has to soften his views about Muhajirs, then I am very sure he will become a powerful politician because two huge political centres, Karachi and Punjab, will be supporting him. Having said that, for all Imran’s heroics and good qualities, he is a stubborn person and he will not change. If he is not willing to change he should just accept he can never become a prominent political leader in Pakistan. If you want to inspire people, you must be willing to connect to different people on different levels. Perhaps this is not true in its entirety in Pakistan, if you can speak Punjabi and make jingoistic comments to the rural Punjabis who form more than 50% of the population, that might just be sufficient to win you an election :). It worked for Nawaz Sharif twice, didn’t it? πŸ™‚

    People have this perception that Sher e Punjab, Nawaz Sharif, created the Nuclear Bomb in Pakistan. The roots of this programme were laid by Bhutto and from then on all governments built upon this programme. It reached its fruition in Nawaz’s time and he just gave an order to test the bomb when India tested theirs. So why does Sher e Punjab get credit for something that was envisaged by Bhutto?

    When Musharraf took over in 1999, Nawaz Sharif was so weak as a leader and the country had suffered so much that with the exception of PML N and some staunch PPP supporters, everyone was with Musharraf. Lahore was basically divided into two political sides- one supporting Musharraf strongly, and one loyal to “Sadda sher”. People in Pakistan lack hindsight and foresight. They have forgotten how bad things were in 1999 when the Army took control.

  28. #28 by khansahab on August 15, 2008 - 2:06 PM

    Ali Ahad

    I wanted to welcome you to LS, it is a sort of belated welcome as you have already made a few comments πŸ™‚ Please tell us how you stumbled upon LS, where you live, and what you do for a living?

    You can find more about us in our “About Us” section of the site.

    Thanks for visiting LS.

  29. #29 by Amit. P on August 15, 2008 - 2:08 PM


    I think u r talking ab’t “Khan abdul gaffar khan” … people call the same guy as “bacha khan” ? Both names sound strikingly different πŸ˜€
    I dont have much knowledge ab’t him .. but told by our history books that he was a great leader in frontier area who believed in non-violence and was anti-partition guy.
    In india too, you can find many voices who believe that partition was the result of power struggle between nehru and jinnah. Many people many voices ..

  30. #30 by JAVED A. KHAN on August 16, 2008 - 1:06 AM


    He had many names:

    Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan
    Baccha Khan
    Badshah Khan
    King of Kings
    Khudai Khidmatgar (the one who help others in the name of God)
    Sarhadi Gandhi (because he was also a non-violence practitioner like M.K. Gandhi)

    His son Khan Abdul Wali Khan died a couple years ago. Just like his father Wali Khan was a controversial figure in Pakistani politics, he was referred to as both, a hero and traitor during his political career because of his association to the Indian Congress which opposed the creation of Pakistan. But, later on he became an active politician in Pakistan and was head of National Awami Party. Actually none of these Khan’s supported the creation of Pakistan and none of the Punjabi leaders supported the creation of Pakistan. In fact Sikandar Hayat Khan of Punjab was even against the Quit India Movement and he was pro-British.

    Ghaffar Khan’s brother was Khan Abdul Jabbar Khan was also against the creation of Pakistan and he was assassinated by Atta Mohammad, a Punjabi Patwari from Mianwali while Jabbar Khan was sitting in the garden of his son’s house. But, that was not politically motivated murder.

    Today, Chaudhary Shujaat Hussain talks about his roots with Pakistan, his father Chaudhry Zahoor Elahi was a police constable of the undivided Punjab, after allegations of corruption he was dismissed from the Police Force. Its rather unfortunate that Chaudhary Shujaat Hussain became the Prime Minister of Pakistan. And all these Chaudharies, Shujaat Hussain, Chaudhary Wajahat Hussain, Chaudhary Parvaiz Elahi, they became the elite of Pakistan.

    Ali Ahad

    Z. A. Bhutto was no doubt a genius but a perverted one. His intelligence and his foreign policy have no match, neither his daughter nor anyone else could match that skill. But, internally he couldn’t control anyone and became very weak and that was the reason he was hanged and died very disgracefully.

    Btw, it was not Nawaz Sharif but, Z. A. Bhutto who started this BUM business, he raised the slogan in the early seventies: “Ghaas Khaingay Laikin Bum Bunaingay.” He was also responsible for the separation of Bangladesh because when Mujib ur Rehman’s Awami Party won the majority he did not like it and he even threatened the other parties from West Pakistan namely the Jamaat-e-Islami who were supporting Mujib ur Rahman that if their MNA’s go to Dhakka to attend the National Assembly session, he will break their legs and this was a direct threat to the leader of Jamaat -e- Ismali Mian Tufail Mohammad.

    Khan Abdul Wali Khan used to call him Adolph Bhutto because he with power he became corrupt, “power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.”

    He was the only person who could have abolished the Feudal Lords System from Pakistan for good, but he chickened out and became the victim of all these Chaudharys, Wadheras, Sardars etc. People like Mustafa Khar who were famous for being so notorious that they could kidnap any woman from the street became the Governor of Punjab during his reign.

    Regarding BIBI, to say that she was good but her husband is bad is being naive and its more like burying your head under the sand, just like an Ostrich. We are not talking about a female who could not handle her rogue husband. We are talking about a Prime Minister and if she is unable to control her husband then she is not fit for the job of a Prime Minister. Its a fact that she turned a blind eye and a deaf ear to whatever Zardari was doing. The only reason she did nothing to stop him because she wanted to save her marriage to stay in power as a Prime Minister. If she had taken divorce from him (although there was nothing left in their marriage) then the people of Pakistan, especially the Mullah’s would have made her life hell as they would have never accepted a divorced Lady Prime Minister to rule the country.

    The argument would have been, if she cannot save her own marriage, if she cannot run her own house in order how can she run the country? And based on that I would ask the same question if she cannot control one rogue man how could she control the whole country?

    Being an Oxford or Cambridge graduate and able to speak fluent English does not mean she has qualified for the job? Politically she learnt a few traits from her late father. But, people say she was behind the assassination of her own brother Murtaza Bhutto – whose daughter Fatima Bhutto blames Benazir and Zardari both for murdering her father – And thats not only her views there is a whole lot of people who firmly believe that both BB and Zardari were behind Murtaza’s murder.

    The irony is she had achieved everything and greed got her killed. She had everything meaning, she was filthy rich, she was Prime Minister twice and she was rich and famous too. She had a family – I mean kids – ignore that MF husband. Any American President can stay in power only for 8 years maximum and she was in power for that much period, but she was not satisfied she wanted more and thats greed, she came back to Pakistan only to die. I am not saying it was good that she died but there was no need for her to come back or even if she wanted to be back into her motherland or fatherland there was no need for her to be in politics. And there was no need for her to pop out of the bullet proof car – that was destined to have happened.

    More about cricket later.

  31. #31 by khansahab on August 16, 2008 - 10:14 AM

    I would like to elaborate on some points mentioned by Javed A Khan earlier. When the Indian Muslims migrated to Pakistan, they came in scores (although today they make up barely 3% of the population of the country) and at that time the whole of Pakistan was like a scarred battleground. There was chaos everywhere and the people within provinces were very concerned what would happen when these migrants arrive, in terms of scarce resources and unlimited wants.

    The problem between Muhajir vs Punjabi in Pakistan goes back as far as 1947, when Punjab did not offer Muhajirs a place to settle peacefully in Punjab, the most fertile and rich province, and wherever they wanted to settle down, they were made to leave and go somewhere else. These people were already fatigued and bruised mentally and well as physically, and the idea of not being welcomed into a country that was achieved by virtue of sacrifices of their families didn’t go down very well. They were welcomed in large by the Sindhis and they shifted to the port town of Karachi, which around that time was just a little more than a fishing village, but because of the education and foresight of these Muhajirs, quickly developed into a major city and is now classified as one of the mega-cities of the world. It has also been running the country’s economy ever since it became an economic centre and although development in the city has been curtailed in the past two decades as focus has shifted to developing Punjab, it is still the biggest city and is referred to as “the pulse of Pakistan”.

    When Quaid-e-Tehreek Altaf Bhai (aka Altaf Ghunda, Minister without Portfolio, Karachi gangster, Gangster Bhaiyya etc etc) refers to the Partition in his annual address to the nation (read: Karachi’s population) he always expresses his gratitude to the Sindhi people for giving Muhajirs a place to settle in Sindh. He also tries to needle Punjabis and complain to them indirectly saying that they did not accept and welcome the Muhajir people.

    There is a power struggle between the two most influential and powerful ethnicities in Pakistan, the Muhajirs and the Punjabis. Most of the animosity has resulted as a consequence of this power struggle. When the Muhajirs came into Pakistan, they were a striking contrast to the general Punjabi population and in terms of culture they were completely opposite- whether that is in socio economic terms, how they perceived arts, literature and entertainment, political terms or simply from a behavioral point of view- generally Muhajirs being soft spoken, reserved, thoughtful and humble, while Punjabis being more extroverted, crude and aggressive (when I mention “crude” here, I don’t mean in an “uncouth” way, I mean in a more “villager mentality” way although some perhaps might see both terms as synonyms). One of the biggest differences was that whereas Punjabis subscribed to the agricultural background and frame of mind, Muhajirs were more urban and sophisticated in their approach.

    Javed A Khan mentioned about the brutal massacres committed in East Punjab against the Muslims that were migrating into Pakistan. In Pakistan there is a perception that the brutal massacres were committed by Hindus against Muslims in Madhya Pradesh, Gujarat or U.P(as Javed A Khan confirms) but the truth is, the brutal massacre in thousands was committed by Sikhs against Muslims in Punjab, near the Lahore border. There are a few reasons why the blame is placed on Hindus for this massacre and I would not like to go in detail as to that, but the policy of Pakistan’s Punjab is to be very friendly to the SIkhs in India. The reason being, that Sikhs and Pakistani Punjabis are basically the same people with a different religion. The only minor difference is that in Pakistan, you see a lot more Kashmiri infleunce where Kashmiris and Punjabis have blended more (most Punjabis share common roots with Kashmiris anyway) whereas in Indian Punjab you see the “thait” Punjabis. Most Pakistani Punjabis respect the Sikhs and think of them as their brothers, and interestingly at the same time they have feelings of animosity towards the Hindus, although Sikhism is really an extension of Hinduism. So at the end of the day it boils down to a question of whether you consider religion as more significant or culture/ethnicity. It seems going off how it works in Pakistan that the majority of Pakistan’s population perceives lineage and culture as more important than religion, although ostensibly it seems otherwise.

    Like Javed A Khan, I also detest MQM and their leader but I can also understand why Altaf Hussein found it necessary to make his party based around principles of regionalism and jingoism. However there is a wrong and right way to do everything and by promoting jingoism instead of justice and fairness and by terrorising the people of Pakistan, MQM is has become a group that is hated more than any other organised group in Pakistan. I feel the MQM has done more to hinder the progress of Muhajirs than help Muhajirs in Pakistan. In Karachi the MQM workers still rely on corruption and extortion to earn their income which they then use to fund the party’s rallies and activities. The vast majority of Karachi’s Muhajir population is as much a victim to the actions of MQM, as the non Muhajirs are.

  32. #32 by khansahab on August 16, 2008 - 11:17 AM

    Pakistan after Musharraf

    The country’s problems won’t go away when he finally steps aside.

    By Tariq Ali

    August 16, 2008

    Power has been draining away from Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf for more than a year. His party suffered a stunning electoral defeat in February that accelerated his isolation. Had he departed peacefully when his constitutional term expired in November 2007, he would have won some respect. Instead, he imposed a state of emergency and sacked the chief justice of the Supreme Court, who was hearing a petition challenging the legality of his presidency. Now Musharraf is under heavy pressure to resign, threatened with impeachment and abandoned by most of his cronies, who accumulated land and money during his term and are now sidling in the direction of the new power brokers.

    The February election put the Pakistan People’s Party led by Asif Ali Zardari, husband of the assassinated Benazir Bhutto, at the head of a fragile coalition government with former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and his Pakistan Muslim League-N. The country moved from a moth-eaten Musharraf dictatorship to a moth-eaten democracy.

    Six months later, the ideals of the election, embraced by the hopeful youth and the poor of the country — political morality, the rule of law, civic virtue, food subsidies, freedom and equality of opportunity — once again lie at their feet, broken and scattered. Zardari and his men are extremely unpopular. Removing Musharraf, who is even more unpopular, might buy these venal politicians some time, but not much.

    They moved against Musharraf only after Gen. Ashfaq Kayani, the army chief and onetime Musharraf protege, let it be known that there would be no military action to defend his former boss. Washington fell into line. In Kayani, U.S. leaders have a professional and military leader loyal to Washington, someone they imagine will do the United States’ bidding with or without Musharraf.

    Earlier this year, U.S. Deputy Secretary of State John D. Negroponte had wanted to retain Musharraf until President Bush was out of office. And in July, Anne Patterson, the U.S. ambassador to Pakistan, and a few British diplomats tried to negotiate a deal on behalf of Musharraf. But the Pakistani politicians no longer wanted to play ball, and now Washington has decided to let Musharraf go.

    The Pakistanis insist that Musharraf must leave the country. Sanctuaries in Manhattan, Texas and the Turkish island of BΓΌyΓΌkada are being considered. The general would prefer a large estate in Pakistan, preferably near a golf course, but security considerations alone make that infeasible.

    Amid the hullabaloo, there was one hugely diverting moment this week — a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Zardari, reportedly the second-richest man in the nation (with a fortune allegedly gained from illegal government kickbacks when his late wife was prime minister), accused Musharraf of corruption and of siphoning money from U.S. aid to Pakistan and transferring it to his private bank accounts. For once, the sound of laughter drowned out the thunder of money.

    Musharraf’s departure will highlight the problems that confront the country, which is in the grips of a food and energy crisis. Inflation is out of control; it approached the 15% mark in May. The price of natural gas, used for cooking in many homes, has risen by 30%. Wheat, a staple, has seen a 20% price hike since November 2007, with the world’s stocks at record lows, and the Pakistani government has been cracking down on the smuggling of wheat flour into Afghanistan to serve the needs of NATO troops. According to a June survey, 86% of Pakistanis find it increasingly difficult to afford flour on a daily basis, for which they blame their new government.

    Other problems persist. The ruling politicians remain divided on the restoration of the judges sacked by Musharraf. The chief justice, Iftikhar Mohammed Chaudhry, is generally seen as the most respected person in the country and is very popular with the people. Zardari is reluctant to see him back at the head of the Supreme Court. A possible compromise might be to offer him the presidency — which the coalition government is trying to restore to its traditional ceremonial role. It would certainly unite the country for a short time.

    And there is always the army. Last month, the country’s powerless (and incoherent) prime minister, Yusaf Raza Gillani, visited the United States. He was asked at a gathering at the Council of Foreign Relations whether he thought there was within Pakistan’s army “a broader acceptance of a more limited role for the army.” He assured the group that “the people have voted against dictatorship and for democracy, and therefore … in future even … the chief of the army staff is highly professional and is fully supporting the democracy.”

    This convinces nobody. Over the last 50 years, the United States has worked mainly with the Pakistani army. This has been its preferred instrument. Nothing has changed. The question being asked is, how long before the military is back at the helm?

  33. #33 by JAVED A. KHAN on August 16, 2008 - 1:34 PM


    On the subject of Mohajirs or immigrants, I need to add something more and something important here. First of all from India – Pakistan perspective, the definition of Mohajir is, whoever crossed the border from India to Pakistan and vice versa is a Mohajir. However, assimilation and integration dilutes this label and it happened much faster in case of the Punjabis from East Punjab. Whereas, those who were different, were, and are still labeled as Mohajirs. Why is it so? To understand this we need to go back to the partition times.

    In the early 1947, in the months leading up to the deliberations of the Punjab Boundary Commission lead by Lord Mountbatten and Sir Cyrile Radcliffe, the main disputed areas appeared to be in the Bari and Bist doabs. Although some areas in the Rechna doab were claimed by the Congress and Sikhs. In the Bari doab, the districts of Gurdaspur, Amritsar, Lahore, and Montgomery were all disputed. All districts except Amritsar, which was 46.5% Muslim population, had Muslim majorities; albeit, in Gurdaspur, the Muslim majority at 51.1%, was slender. Lahore and Amritsar the two major cities posed most problems for the decision makers hence, Lahore was left for Pakistan and Amritsar for India. The division of the rest of the districts was easy for them.

    East Punjabi refugees to Pakistan did not face problems of cultural and linguistic assimilation after partition. However, there were many Muslim refugees who migrated to Pakistan from other Indian states they had. These refugees came from many different ethnic groups and regions in India, including Rajasthan, Uttar Pradesh – then known as “United Provinces of Agra and Awadh”, or UP or Uttar Pradesh – MP or Madhya Pradesh – then Central Province or “CP”- and Gujarat, Bihar, what was then the princely state of Hyderabad, Junagarh and so on.

    The total movement of masses on both sides of the border are reported to be around 20 million out of which only 14 million were from East Punjab to West Punjab and vice versa. Based on 1951 Census of displaced persons, 7,226,000 Muslims went to Pakistan from India while 7,249,000 Hindus and Sikhs moved to India from Pakistan immediately after partition i.e., only in Pubjab. And, the rest were from other states of India. More than a million people were killed at the border on both sides.

    The interesting thing is, the East Punjab cities that have been mentioned above which had majority Muslim population is almost non existent today. Despite the fact that all the Muslims of East Punjab and their leaders were against the creation of Pakistan fled from there overnight. Somehow most of them escaped because of the language and cultural commonality they had, whereas, others who were different were butchered at the time of partition.

    And after partition, for the East Punjab Muslims, there was no problem in assimilation and integration. Once again, those who looked different, speak different language and had different cultural backgrounds were the ones who had difficulty in assimilating and integrating and they were pushed out of Punjab.

    These people were pushed down south as far as Karachi and when they tried to establish themselves with their business acumen, farsightedness and their vision by building the harbour city of Karachi into something more than a fishing village, the businessmen and industrialists of Chiniot and Sialkot realized the importance of the sea-port and came down to Karachi to take control of the port of Karachi. The exploitation of Karachi and those living in Karachi started and the Punjab dominance in Karachi also started. They knew that NWFP was of no use because of its borders with Afghanistan and they also knew that Baluchistan’s two ports Pasni and Gawadar were fishing villages whereas, Karachi was a “Pukkee, Pakayee Roti” for them.

    And after almost 45-50 years of Punjab dominance the MQM came into existence. Otherwise the so-called Mohajirs of today were very well settled as Pakistanis in Karachi without calling themselves as Punjabis, Balouchis, Pathans or Sindhis but, just Pakistanis.

    This is more like the history of North America, where the Inuit Indians or the First Nation people. Inuit are the Aboriginal people of Arctic Canada. They have disappeared into oblivion and the British, Irish, Scottish, French, Spanish, Portuguese and Italian immigrants came to this part of the world after Christopher Columbus and became the pioneers and the settlers and now the true and rightful owners of this continent. The Inuit population were forced out of the major cities into jungles and they live in extreme cold and barren areas such as Iqaluit, Hudson Bay area and as far as Alaska and as far as the north pole and are referred as Inuits and Eskimos etc.

    Survival of the fittest, that is the law of this jungle called, The Planet Earth.

  34. #34 by JAVED A. KHAN on August 16, 2008 - 8:34 PM

    Last week I received an email from one of my friends from my student days. He wrote that one of our common friends told him that I am in Montreal, Canada and thats all. So, he searched my name on Google and was able to find some of my comments on PakSpin, according to him they were hilarious** and he knew that its me but, there was no email address. Then he found this website and got the email address from the site and wrote me an email. Now, we are in touch with each other.

    **he was referring to one of my comments on PakSpin in which I wrote, “If there is anyone who can do GHAZAL BLASPHEMY there is no one better than Pakistani Ghazal singer Ghulam Ali.” I had almost forgotten about it and I don’t even remember in what context I wrote that. But, on PakSpin some losers pushed Kamran Abbassi to change the rules and restrict the comments to 1000 characters and that lost the charm and the readership. Because, this is not a classroom where you are writing an essay in 100 or 200 words. And 1000 characters is a joke. The result ……… PakSpin is DEAD.

    Dear readers, bloggers, friends and foes πŸ˜‰ you are welcome to write long comments and you are also free to digress and deviate from the main subject of the thread, as long as you are not using any profane and abusive language, your comments will appear on this blog. We believe in disagreements or difference of opinion and not just “I am agree” types.

  35. #35 by Amit. P on August 16, 2008 - 8:59 PM


    Is he so bad ?? … my early days of “ghazal prem” started with ghulam ali … later i found his style somewhat boring, specially when he sings a single line in thousand different ways and for a moment u find urself wondering when will the next line come. May be his case is the victim of excessive mixture of “thumri” in ghazals.

  36. #36 by JAVED A. KHAN on August 16, 2008 - 11:25 PM


    Jo apnay aap ko Urdu daan kahay aur Ghazal ko Gajal kahay uski Ghazal tou Azal say “paidee” hee hogi.

    He became popular among the Indian crowd at a time when India / Pakistan relations were improving after a big gap. And the exchange of socio-cultural programmes were the basis of creating some balance and harmony between the two countries to get closer. At that time there was no one other notable Ghazal singer in Pakistan and Ghulam Ali took that opportunity to go and sing the same Ghazals each time on every occasion and in every function. Obviously logo nay tou bore hona hee thaa phir.

    Besides, he has this stupid habit of considering the audience as naive and used to narrate and explain the meaning of the Urdu poetry verses in his own Paindoo Punjabi accent. And there is a limit to everything, he goes on and on and on like that stupid Geo TV guy who was interviewing Javed Miandad.

    In Dubai, during one of the NRI seminars organized by Citi Bank, followed by dinner and an evening with Ghulam Ali at one of the hotels, Ghulam Ali ruined that evening by constantly translating the Urdu meanings in his PunjaBish.

    He was also trying to prove a point to the audience that, in Urdu when you are reciting a poem you must emphasize and spell certain vowels and consonants in such a way that they please your ears like the word, SHAYED in Urdu or “Perhaps” in English. He sang a few times this word in a different way like this: Shaaaaaaaaayed, Shaaaayedddddddddd, Shayeddhhhhhhhhhhh and was trying to tell people that in the end the emphasis on the letter D should be so light, just like Daal. I was sitting in the front row and I got so pissed off and asked him Patleee Daal ya Garhee Daal? And Masoor Daal or Maash Daal? Everyone started laughing and he tried to justify by saying that most of the NRI crowd is from India and their Urdu is not that good so I have to explain this. Then someone said, Ghulam Ali this is not a school we are here for a musical evening and not a music class.

    I am glad to know Amit that very soon you realized he is boring, actually for me he is unbearable. Moin Akhtar made a lot of fun on his TV programme “Loose Talk” especially about he (Ghulam Ali) fell in love with Rekha. Now here is something funny, in that NRI programme he was trying to teach the audience how to pronounce the word “Shayed” and he himself calls Rekha as “RAY-QAA” And Moin Akhtar made pun of him by saying this:

    “Ghulam Ali nay kaha RAY-QAA ko mai nay DAY-QAA aur ab tou mujhay bus RAY-QAA say hee shaadi kerni hai,” and Moin Akhtar said, “RAY-QAA? Array tu nay apna moo hai DAY-QAA ? “

  37. #37 by Amit. P on August 17, 2008 - 5:50 AM

    LOL @ Ghulam ali …. he can still try on RAY-QAA btw πŸ˜‰
    “Budhape ki rangineat kaafi gaadhi hoti hai” πŸ˜€

    Here i must confess that i still love some of his gems .. like “hungama hai kyon ..” In live concert generally performers get overindulgent and we “tasteless” audience start witnessing “dominance of craft(technique) over content”. Sometime it works and sometime it falls flat.

  38. #38 by JAVED A. KHAN on August 17, 2008 - 11:03 AM


    Vaisay “Ray-Qaa” as Umrao Jaan was definitely a gem i.e., when she was at her peakduring her prime days. But, Ghulam Ali was always ugly and uncouth. Among the other notable Ghazal singers I used to like Jagjit Singh when he used to sing with Chitra, some how they both used to compliment each other but, his solo’s have become monotonous because he sings in the same tone thats why “mono-tone” πŸ˜‰ and stereotype.

    As a Ghazal singer its hard to entertain the live audience and that too over a sustainable period of time. And you are right about the interference and the clutter in live concerts distracts us from concentrating on the obvious. I enjoy music in my car which has a premium sound system – 13 Harman Kardon speakers – and a few good quality CD recordings – both English and Desi collection, and there is no one to disturb or distract you.

    As far as the craft technique that you are talking about, it works when you don’t know the background of the Ghazal or the lyrics but, serious audience are not that dumb and naive. For e.g., he was singing Ghalib’s famous Ghazal”

    Bana hai Shah ka Musahib phiray hai itrata
    Warna Shaher may Ghalib ki Abroo kya hai?

    He was trying to explain the meaning of Shah by saying Shah means Badshah ( I am sure every single person knew that) I bet Ghulam Ali himself does not know the background of this Ghazal.

    The background of this Ghazal is more important than the meaning of one words that he was trying to explain. Reportedly Ghalib was taunting at the other poet, Zauq who was his biggest rival, when Zauq became the chamberlain of the Emperor’s court, he used to show-off only to piss of Ghalib. One day he was passing through the bazar with all his paraphernalia and chamchas and when Ghalib saw his trivial entourage and his petty antics, he couldn’t control himself and said the first misra of above verse which was more like a jibe at Zauq. “Bana hai Shah ka Musahib phiray hai itrata.”

    Zauq got pissed off with that insult and in the next meeting at the court he complained to the Emperor Bahadur Shah Zafar and said, Your Majesty he even insulted you by mentioning your name in “Bharay Baazaar” so, the Emperor asked Ghalib to clarify and explain. Ghalib replied, “Your Majesty he is lying, I was only reading the Maqta (last verse of a ghazal) of my new poem.

    Upon hearing this Zauq demanded that the new poem must be read in the court and Ghalib was so talented that at the spur of the moment he created a new Ghazal spontaneously and read it from a piece of paper on which something else was written and the Ghazal is like this:

    Har ek baat pe kehtay ho tum kaye ‘tu kya hai’ ?
    Tumhee kaho kay yeh andaaz-e-guftgoo kya hai ?

    Na sholay may yeh karishma na barq may yeh ada
    Koi batao kay woh shookh-e-tund Khoo kya hai ?

    (Shook-e- tund = sharp/angry, Khoo = behavior)

    Yae rashk hai kay wo hota hai hamsukhan tum say
    Warna Khauf-e-bad aamozi-e-adoo kya hai ?

    (rashk = jealousy, ham sukhan = to speak together/to agree,
    khauf = fear, bad = bad/wicked, aamozi = education/teaching,
    adoo = enemy)

    Chipak raha hai badan par lahoo say pairaahan
    Hamaaree jeb ko ab haajat-e-rafoo kya hai ?

    pairaahan = shirt/robe/cloth, haajat = need/necessity,
    rafoo = mending/stitching and jeb = pocket.

    Jalaa hai jism jahaan dil bhee jal gaya hoga
    kured tay ho jo ab raakh, justjoo kya hai ?

    (justjoo = desire; kured tay = searching or rummaging)

    Rugaon may daurtay phirnay kay ham nahee qaayal
    Jab aankh hee say na tapka to phir lahoo kya hai ?

    Woh cheez jiskay liye hamko ho bahisht azeez
    Siwaay baada-e-gul-faam-e-mushkaboo kya hai ?

    (bahisht (or bihisht, both are correct) = heaven, baada = wine, gul_faam = delicate and fragrant like flowers, mushkaboo = like the smell of musk)

    Piyoon sharaab agar khum bhee dekh loon do chaar
    Yeh sheesha-o-qadah-o-kooza-o-suboo kya hai ?

    (Khum = wine barrel, qadah = goblet, kooza/suboo = wine pitcher)]

    Rahee na taaqat-e-guftaar, aur agar ho bhee
    to kis ummeed pay kahiye ke aarzoo kya hai ?

    (guftaar = speech or discourse)

    Bana hai Shaah ka musahib, phiray hai itaraata
    Warna shehar may ‘Ghalib’ kee aabroo kya hai ?

    (Musahib = Advisor/ comrade / associate)

    Here Ghalib took the blame on himself by saying he is Shah’s Adviser and he goes into the City flaunting around because of that, otherwise Ghalib’s position without that (as an associate of the Shah) has no bearing no importance.

    And Ghulam Ali, out of all these words that I have mentioned above and the background of that ghazal, he chose the word SHAH to explain it to the audience and said, Shah means Badshah, King, Sheikh (because the concert was in Dubai he used the word “Sheikh” πŸ™‚ such a loser, thats why I think he is such a ch2ya.)

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