THE CAPTAINCY DILEMMA

THE Musical Chair Drama is coming to an end when the PCB will announce Misbah ul Haq as Captain of the Pakistan Cricket Team for the ICC 2011 WC starting next month in the sub-continent.

Its a shame that not only the PCB but some of the renowned sports writers and journalists are following the pied piper tune played by the jingoists lobby which is controlling the PCB and the Selection Committee.  In fact there is NO committee but there is a one BUTT SHOW.

I was shocked to read an article in cricinfo by Osman Samiuddin whom I had a lot of respect earlier, not anymore after reading his article which is showering praise and accolades on Misbah ul Haq and he is being compared with Sir Don Bradman and he was also talking about writing a book and making a film on Misbah goes to prove that he is now living in the backyard of “Cuckoo’s-Den.”

Misbah’s uncertain and erratic career in cricket is a proof in itself that he is a mediocre player who never managed to consolidate his place in the team like a hero or one of the heroes of the past viz. Imran Khan, Javed Miandad, Inzamam ul Haq, Saeed Anwar, Wasim Akram etc., and that is because he is a pimple on the ass of mediocrity and never a hero. If Samiuddin wants to make him a hero of his dreams then he can write a book or compete with Mahesh Bhatt and the end result would be like Misbah’s career which never took off.

Misbah has only two test centuries to his name and that too when he scored them in India in 2007 under the captaincy of his comrade – Shoaib Malik (Younus Khan was made makeshift captain because the former put his foot in his mouth and broke his ankle) since then he is in and out of the team because of his poor and pathetic form and suddenly his batting average as a captain is being compared with Sir Don Bradman! Come on guys get real.

All this drama is being created only to appoint him as a captain for the 2011 WC.  The single test series win from a mere 2 tests i.e., beating New Zealand 1-0, the team which was battered by Bangladesh 4-0 and by India 5-0 in the recent ODI’s is a proof of how good the team is?

If Misbah is so good then he should also be breaking Sir Don Bradman’s record in the forth coming ODI series starting in a few days when he would be playing under Shahid Afridi’s captaincy.  Misbah has been conspiring with Malik, Akmal and Butt along with Rana Nayee to get rid of the two former captains, Younus Khan and Mohammad Yousuf.  And, they succeeded in doing so. Yousuf is already out and Younus was dropped from the England tour and somehow managed to get back into the team because no one else was performing in the middle order.

Other than scoring runs, I would like to know what role Misbah played as a captain? Like someone said, the reason he is scoring runs now is because he wants to hold his captaincy post not only by two hands but, by his teeth as well. There is a very clear indication that now he has a motive and wants to end his career on a high note by captaining the Pakistan team in the WC –  Winning or losing is not important for him, he plays for himself like he played in the first T20 WC in SA against India in the last 2 matches.

In my opinion, as a captain he did nothing other than scoring runs, he has no clue about field placements, bowling change, changing batting order, he simply stands there in the slips like a simpleton. Fortune Favours the Fools and Lady Luck has showered her blessings on him.  He is the so-called HERO at the moment.  The people of Pakistan always worship the Rising Sun and kicks off the Butt by the Dawn.

It will be a grave mistake if Misbah is appointed as captain of the team for the 2011 WC.  Ask any unbiased and sensible person and you will get the same answer. Afridi as a captain is far more superior than Misbah ul Haq. Lets hope and see the results of the 5 ODI’s.

 

 

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  1. #1 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 19, 2011 - 5:27 PM

    We have a new thread, please express your views here. Thanks

  2. #2 by Pawan on January 20, 2011 - 2:17 AM

    There is no need to make Misbah a hero like Samiauddin has done, neither there is need to criticize his performances. If there is any need at this moment for Pak cricket then it should be gaining a little perspective and keeping things in perspective. Misbah has done wonderfully well, but so had the “new” captains Malik, Younis, Afridi (two back to back ODI centuries!) and even Butt to a certain extent when newly appointed. So let us give the poor chap some time as a captain and see how it goes.

    Choosing between Afridi and Misbah is like choosing between mind and matter, literally. Misbah looks like a matter-of-fact captain – played sensible yesterday and saw the side through without getting emotional and trying to win the test. Afridi looks like being a lot more emotional and expressive than Misbah. He resigned from test captaincy reportedly because some players, namely Butt and co were not playing to their potential. I don’t know how much of truth is there in this, but if he did do that because of this reason, then it is real foolish – one cannot run away and throw his bat because somethings not working out. You are made the captain of the test team for your country for some reason- its not a joke. In any case a captain retiring mid-way in a test series against top teams like Aus/Eng, is way too childish for me at least. What if he does that in world cup?

    At the same time who will be the captain is not any Tom, dick, samiauddin’s call. It is the PCB’s call. So lets wait and see what decision they take.
    It does sound funny though – a team without a captain and a vice captain. But hey, this is Pakistan. You never know (and even the players will never know) they might even win the world cup.

  3. #3 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 20, 2011 - 2:28 AM

    Pawan

    I agree with you on the emotional side and called him an Akhroat and his decisions are based on the theory of Akhroatism. Still, for a smaller version of the game there is no better captain than him at the moment. The team can perform well and win the WC provided they are guided properly. Right now the PCB has not even announced who the captain would be, so the players must be having their last laugh at them and wondering which side of the coin will flip and in whose favour?

    As regards two back to back centuries in Sri Lanka, I think if he regains his batting form he would be the most destructive player in the sub-continent. Again it is not a matter of batting sensibly or emotionally but, it is a matter of captaincy. And, these two things should be kept separately.

  4. #4 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 20, 2011 - 2:36 AM

    Waqar Younus was handed over a show cause notice by the PCB for saying:

    “I am surprised that the board has delayed announcing the captain. I don’t know the reasons for this but personally I think the captain should have been named with the team.”

    This is the height of DICTATORSHIP, that no one can ask HIS BUTTNESS (*&*^&%%&(*(*))) MC BC IJAZ about his decision making. I don’t understand what kinda rules, regulations are these? This BIG BUTT Thick A$$ BIG mouth sucker can say or do anything but, no one else can raise his voice against his decision. Shouldn’t the people of Pakistan go to the PCB office and do GHERAO and PATHRAO at him? They waste so many lives for nothing, all they need here is to get hold of him from his BUTT and throw him out.

  5. #5 by Pawan on January 20, 2011 - 2:46 AM

    Relax Javed. Take it easy man. Its just a game…

    It is indeed confusing that PCB hasn’t named the captain of the side yet. But at the same time Waqar has no business talking to the media about his personal opinions about PCB as he is employed by PCB and must’ve been bound by PCB. Same thing happens in India. Many senior players like Yuvraj and even Dhoni have been asked to keep their mouths shut.

  6. #6 by Mohammed Munir on January 20, 2011 - 10:33 AM

    Thanks for the new thread … it was overdue. 🙂

    A very well written and analytical article and off course “Good Timing” too !!

    Now a days I don’t read many other cricketing blog and mostly depend on LS, which provides me all-round cricketing news not only on Pakistan & India but even all other teams. However, after reading this new thread here on LS, I was kinda forced to go back to cricinfo and read this article of Osman Samiuddin about Misbah.

    BTW, I too have respect for the guy (no, no not Misbah …. but Osman) 😉

    Well to my understanding, I think Osman is not actually serious on Misbah issue and rather he is making fun and trying to be sarcastic in that article.

    I mean he did mention writing a book, making a movie and compared Misbah with “The Don”, but this is not the Osman we all know. I really believe that in his efforts to be funny and sarcastic about PCB management and the Captaincy, he has gone on to ridicule them all the more.

    I agree with Javed Khan and many other here that Misbah is acceptable as a player and he is surely in good batting touch at the moment, but he is a defensive and selfish captain, who lacks leadership abilities. Secondly, in Pakistan, playing negative and defensively cricket is never appreciated and this is proved by reading the remarks of Pakistani cricket fans’ on cricinfo article, most of whom are cursing and blaming Misbah for his spineless captaincy and reluctance of wining the second Test. Further, Misbah’s cricketing knowledge, leadership skills, man-management and captaincy capabilities are neither yet proved nor adequately tested. While on the other hand, Shahid Afridi, who is the current ODI & T20 Captain, is not only brave, strong and a natural-born leader but he is also connecting well with his players and bringing the best in many of them who were ignored earlier (Razzaq, Hafeez, Akhter, Ajmal, etc.). Most importantly, Afridi is a team player who sees above and beyond the realms of regionalism and jingoism. To prove this, Afridi has been struggling hard to bring back the culprits like Akmals and Maliks in the team again.

    Finally coming back to Osman Samiuddin’s article on Misbah, well I agree that Osman spoke about a book on Misbah, a movie too, Facebook, Twitter, comparing him with Don Bradman, pointing out that Misbah played only 2 ODIs last year while still he may become our ODI captain, and lastly suggesting Misbah to be Chairman of PCB in another 15 years. But I think this all seems like a skeptical and mocking effort from a shrewd and cunning journalist, and if is not really so, then still Osman has succeeded in making us laugh a lot on his wirte-up. 😉

  7. #7 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 20, 2011 - 11:44 AM

    KARACHI: Just months after most critics had predicted a doom-and-gloom scenario for them, Pakistan on Wednesday achieved their first Test series triumph outside the sub-continent in almost seven years. It seemed that Pakistan were completely down in the dumps after three of their key players were provisionally suspended for alleged involvement in a spot-fixing scandal last September. Even the most ardent of their fans feared that it would be all downhill for Pakistan in the lead up to World Cup 2011 which begins in Bangladesh from February 19.

    Sometimes, however, fate has a strange way of making its presence felt. All the controversies and uncertainty have actually worked as a catalyst to bond the players of a team that is not really known for its unity. “All our players are really fired up,” Pakistan manager Intikhab Alam told ‘The News’ from Wellington on Wednesday soon after the tourists drew their second and last Test against New Zealand at Basin Reserve to win the series 1-0. “The controversies and scandals revolving around some of their teammates seem to have brought them together. There is a lot of bonding among the boys and they are really backing up each other,” added Intikhab, a former Pakistan captain. Intikhab was Pakistan’s manager when they won their solitary World Cup crown in Australia in 1992. He was the team’s coach when the Pakistanis clinched the 2009 ICC World Twenty20 trophy in England.

    Intikhab believes that the team is now showing the sort of spirit that helped Pakistan win those two world titles. “Team spirit had a lot to do with our title wins in 1992 and 2009,” he said. “On both those occasions, our boys were completely pumped up and there was a lot of unity. I must say that there is similar atmosphere in our dressing room right now and that’s a very healthy sign,” he stressed. “The boys are backing each other in difficult times. There are no ego problems. Each and every player is trying his best to do his bit.”

    Intikhab was also all praise for Misbah-ul-Haq, Pakistan’s Test captain who was named the player-of-the-series for his prolific batting performances in the two Tests played in Hamilton and Wellington. “The credit really goes to Misbah because he’s been leading the team from the front,” he said. “The players have really responded well. Seniors like Younis Khan are doing a great job.” Intikhab is confident that his team is peaking at the right time. “With the World Cup just a few weeks away, it’s really good to see that our boys are peaking at the right time,” he said. “They’ve just won a Test series which should give the team a tremendous boost.”

    Intikhab believes that another factor that has contributed in Pakistan’s revival is fitness. “The fitness of our players has been remarkable. They are showing a lot of intensity and the energy level is getting higher.” Intikhab hoped that Pakistan will “continue the good work” and go into the World Cup brimming with confidence. “We have a six-match one-day series coming up against New Zealand,” he said referring to the ODI series against the Black Caps which will begin in Wellington from January 22. “We will have to continue doing well in it because that will really boost our morale ahead of the World Cup.”

  8. #8 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 20, 2011 - 12:01 PM

    Pawan

    To some it may appear that I am worked up and upset or angry but, the truth is I am only blabbing out my feelings about a system. Actually there is NO system and no communication. When it is a two way dialogue it is called communication but, the dictatorial coffers of the PCB are not used to this in the so-called democracy. They only like to hear the praise and no criticism. Below is a copy paste of a latest article from Intikhab Alam where he is so full of praise about the team, captain, morale etc. etc. and all due to the sudden bond of unity that has been created out of no where.

    If Waqar had said, “The PCB has done a very sensible thing by holding its decision to announce the captain till the end of the 5 ODI series in NZ to see how the team plays under Shahid Afridi’s captaincy and then decide whether to retain him as a captain or appoint Misbah ul Haq as the new captain for the 2011 WC?”

    The PCB would have been very happy and no action would have been taken against him. By saying what everyone should be saying or have said, Waqar has been served with a notice. What is this BS? Whether it is the PCB or the BCCI, they should be careful in saying what they are saying and they should be even more careful in what they are doing. Because, this entity is not the personal property of the Chairman or the bunch of jokers working for that entity. In a democratic country these institutions are accountable to the public and the public has all the right to say what they have to say. If a paid employee calls a spade, a spade why are they so defensive and admonishing him for what he said? It is not a crime to say what he said, in fact it is very professional to demand that a captain is like a fulcrum without which the balance of the team gets tilted on one side and that side is the sliding one, going downwards.

    Withholding an important decision like this is going to make the team weak. “Something we were withholding made us weak Until we found that it was ourselves.” — Robert Frost.

  9. #9 by newguy on January 20, 2011 - 2:08 PM

    Hi Guys,

    Couple of comments.

    I too like Osman Samiuddin’s writing and I read his article on Cricinfo, I think the whole piece is a satire on the state of affairs in Pakistan cricket. I believe he was firmly tounge-in-cheeck when he wrote about movie on Misbah, Misbah same as Don, and now all we need is Misbah as ODI captain. Osman is just predicting how these things turn out like most of us also predicted, it doesn’t take a genius to figure out how Butt and co. think, you can see it coming from a mile.

    Secondly, I think Pakistan play their best cricket when they are aggressive, and they need an attacking captain. Not a mindless attack, but controlled aggression. Most of the famous Pakistani wins are played on pure adrenalin rush, I have seen many if not most of Pakistan’s famous wins, and most of these wins the team gets going because someone comes up with a great performance and everyone rallies behind from there on. I don’t think great analysis and all that people claim Misbah has got anything to do with the style of play Pakistan traditionally produces. He will not be a good captain in my mind for this reason.

  10. #10 by khansahab on January 20, 2011 - 7:25 PM

    Butt flies to NZ to resolve captain issue

    KARACHI: Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) Chairman Ijaz Butt has rushed to New Zealand to settle the issue of selecting a captain for the World Cup.

    The PCB has not named the captain despite announcing the final 15-man squad for the mega event, starting next month as there officials were divided on whether to stick with limited-overs captain Shahid Afridi or give the leading role to Misbahul Haq, who recently steered Pakistan to a historic Test series triumph against New Zealand.

    The PCB chief, who landed in Wellington yesterday, will be meeting with the team management to finally reach a decision. “The chairman will hold meetings with Afridi and Misbah, besides taking input from the team management that includes the coach and manager, to announce the captain,” a PCB official told The Express Tribune.

    The official, however, rejected reports that Butt’s trip was solely planned to sort out the captaincy issue.

    ‘Decision after mutual consent’

    The board’s decision to delay the decision drew criticism from various quarters including former greats and team coach Waqar Younis, who claimed that such an action only leads to dispute among the players.

    The official, however, brushed aside their remarks and said the chairman’s presence during the series will rid of any such issue.

    “The chief’s meetings with Afridi and Misbah are aimed at removing differences, if there are any. The players and management will be taken into confidence before any decision is made so there is no question of a rift.”

    Afridi still a top contender

    The official felt Afridi, who was previously the certain choice to lead the team in the World Cup, damaged his own case by giving unnecessary statements which created disharmony among team players.

    “Many players have complained about Afridi’s comments that prompted PCB’s indecision. Before that he was a certain choice.”

    The official, however, added that the experienced all-rounder is still the first choice despite Misbah’s triumphant leadership in the Test series but a change in captaincy could not be completely ruled out.

    “Afridi is still the top candidate for captaincy as the board refuses to take any risks at this point.”

  11. #11 by M. Y. Kasim on January 20, 2011 - 9:24 PM

    I am surprised that most of you missed the plot 😀

    Begum Saheba has been to several countries but not New Zealand (I am not sure, or may be its too cold and uncomfortable for the kids back here in Lahore) that she ordereed the big, fat Butt to delay the naming of captain and make an issue out of nothing so that the big, fat b Butt along with his family have to fly to NZ to “reslve” teh issue.

    And while there, stay the whole tour as a Fatherly 😦 and Calming 🙂 figure.

    I missed Osman Samiuddin’s article, which I am going to read now.

  12. #12 by M. Y. Kasim on January 20, 2011 - 9:43 PM

    I just finished THE Article 😀

    Its nothing but a lot of BS. OS tried his hand which is not his forte and failed miserably 😦

    Thats all I can say 🙂

  13. #13 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 21, 2011 - 4:31 AM

    What is the need to go to NZ? Can’t he decide from his own office? Is it something that needs the BIG FAT BUTT to be in NZ or, is it just to pollute the clean air of NZ. Mr. Kasim has hatched the plot but, I doubt THE BUTTNEE ever accompanies him for a cricket match?

    GUYS ………. I am glad that you all read and not only read, but read carefully. 😀 The purpose of the thread was to create provocation on the captaincy issue and I used that OS article as a base to vent out my own frustration using my dry sense of humour by showing how upset and angry I am! In reality, me too I understand that its a satirical mockery of the PCB. Unfortunately nothing works on the slippery BUTT, he is a shameless LUMP of garbage and the irony is no one has the guts to kick him out. It shows how impotent the people of Pakistan are, they go out and burn public properties, buses, cars, embassies, consulates but, when they need to get rid of some real pain in the a$$ people, they show indifference and for them it is insignificant and unimportant.

  14. #14 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 21, 2011 - 4:35 AM

    Australia in tatters, 41/4 and Shehzad took 2 wickets clean bowled Watson and Haddin for 5 runs each. It seems like Zimbabwe and Bangladesh can easily beat this Australian team. 😀

    I am waiting for India and SA match starting in about 8 hours from now.

  15. #15 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 21, 2011 - 12:21 PM

    LOL @ my word about Australia and they proved me wrong!

    Just one good innings makes a big difference in these smaller versions of the game. Shaun Marsh, I haven’t seen him much in live action except for a couple of games and each time he scored big and played a major role in winning the match for his team be it Australia or the IPL.

    SA has won the toss and elected to bat, lotsa, lotsa stats have been revealed about side batting first, batting second, in lights, during the wind etc., etc. But, the net result would be different from the predictions otherwise we will all be gods. Waiting for the match to start in a few minutes from now.

  16. #16 by newguy on January 21, 2011 - 1:38 PM

    JAK,

    I am also watching the Ind-SA match, at least for a little bit more then I will try to follow scores to see what happens. SA seems determined to put up a better show today from looking at how Amla played himself in unlike previous games where he tried to attack from the get go and lost his wicket, today it seems like Amla will play the anchor and others will play around him. I expect AB Devilliers to come good as well today.

    Overall this might be a higher scoring game than the previous two, all depends on how well India restricts them and then have a much better planned chase than last time. I would think today the match is slightly in favor of SA looking at the start they got. Hope for a good close game whatever happens.

  17. #17 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 21, 2011 - 6:46 PM

    newguy

    Well, SA placed themselves in a comfortable position batting wise especially after Amla, it was JP Duminy who took the mantle and remained unbeaten on 71. For India it is Virat Kohli playing the anchor role, he has just hit a second six off the bowling of Pieterson whereas, Dhoni got out in the same over for just 2 runs. OMG, my nick name is YP has also gone for 2 runs, seems like India has lost the opportunity to win.

    Earlier AB De Villiers was unlucky to be given out by Simon Tauffel. For a second I thought Yuvi clean bowled him but, the side view confirmed the dislodging of the wickets came from Dhoni’s gloves and I noticed his foot was within the crease, so on what grounds Tauffel gave him out? He gave him out for caught behind whereas, the ball was at least 4 inches away from AB’s bat. Poor decision in the end.

  18. #18 by 420 on January 22, 2011 - 12:28 AM

    as much as i agree that misbah has made a good comeback in the test arena, he does not deserve to be the ODI captain. as a rival, i would love that, but it would be a letdown for cricket lovers. not sure if i am more demanding, but the way he drew against NZ was pathetic. till now i thought late declarations by India are defensive, but this one takes the cake. well, there might be an argument that knowing the typical pak batting collapses, he played it safe. but again, he never put an effort on winning the game

  19. #19 by newguy on January 22, 2011 - 4:16 AM

    Ind-SA matched ended with a lame Indian chase ending with rain, they would have lost anyway, I saw parts of the match and there was no demon in the pitch that would have caused a team to slump like India did. Yuvraj was eager o gift his wicket away, and so too was Raina I felt many times were intentionally trying to get out. As for Dhoni the less said better of his recent performance with the bat, which is next to nothing. In fact the whole ODI series so far not a single Indian batsman played with any confidence, but then same can be said of South Africans too who look like they get brain freezes from time to time. Even a player like Amla is losing his head at times, I wonder whether there is something more than just a game going on.

    After today’s lack of intensity in the field from both team, I don’t care to watch another game from these two even if it mean it is a series decider. What series if there is no intensity from either team.

    Coming to Pakistan I started watching then lost interest as no one looked like being able to play a proper innings, what is going on with all these teams, at this rate I wonder what will WC look like. Pakistan collapsed to 124 which is unbelievable given how they played in the test series. Everything seems to be going according to plan to make Misbah ODI captain as well, he top scored with 50 out of 125, no one will ever bother with his slow strike rate.

  20. #20 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 22, 2011 - 4:28 AM

    newguy / 420

    I agree with you guys about the way the Indian batsmen played today, in fact even in the previous matches also they are lucky to have won because the chokers choked.

    When the innings started SA made 11 runs in 7 overs but, then they accelerated and at one point in less than 20 overs they were 106/1 and then in 27 balls after adding only 12 runs they were 118/5. Then Duminy and Botha consolidated and took the total to 265 and that was THE END for India. Because, the average score on that ground was 227 and the team chasing 250 has won only 2 times in 27 matches. So, based on that and based on the lights and weather it was not possible and in any case the match was decided on DL method.

  21. #21 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 22, 2011 - 4:34 AM

    As regards Pakistani players getting out like the hot cross buns are sold, doesn’t make any sense to me. Hafeez is back to his original form of getting out in single digits and both Akmals are playing like novices and Akhroat is Akhroat, in fact the whole team played like a high school team and Misbah for record purposes scored a fifty in 88 balls at a strike rate of 56 but, who cares? The team deserves to lose. NZ are already 50/0 in 6 overs they are playing like a T20 and they should win this match by 10 wickets in 16 overs.

    Shoaib Akhtar gave away 31 runs in 3 overs and Sohail Tanvir 19 runs in 3 overs. There is no Umar Gul in the team and the guy who was taking wickets (Tanvir Ahmad) is not in the squad due to BUTTOLITICS so, what else do you expect from this team?

  22. #22 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 22, 2011 - 6:26 AM


    They won by 9 wickets in 17.2 overs !

  23. #23 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 22, 2011 - 6:40 AM

    Waqar`s support for Afridi rubs PCB the wrong way

    Waqar Younis is more comfortable with Shahid Afridi, said the sources.—

    LAHORE: The Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) has been under constant pressure from national coach Waqar Younis to retain Shahid Afridi as captain for the World Cup, which is starting from Feb 19.

    Sources told Dawn that after Waqar had expressed his dismay in a press statement over PCB’s decision of not announcing the captain along with the World Cup squad on Jan 18, the PCB, considering the statement untimely, sent an explanation notice to the coach over the statement.

    The PCB had faced criticism from several quarters for not announcing the captain for the World Cup.

    The sources further said that though Afridi was PCB’s first choice to lead in the World Cup, it was also considering Misbah-ul-Haq, who was delivering well as Test captain.

    The upcoming six One-day International series against New Zealand, starting from Saturday, would also be a test for Afridi to prove his potential as captain and all-rounder.

    The PCB has also appointed Misbah as his deputy for the series.

    But Waqar, as the sources said, was more comfortable with Afridi and did not want to make any change at the time when the ICC mega event was less than a month away.

    In 2010, Afridi’s performance as captain remained below par as he led the team in nine series of One-day and Twenty20 Internationals, losing seven and winning only two T20 series.

    Misbah, on the other hand, led Pakistan in two Test series, each against South Africa, world No. 2 Test team, and New Zealand. While both the Tests against the Proteas ended in draw, Pakistan won the series 1-0 against the Black Caps, their first after almost four years.

    PCB chairman Ijaz Butt is also in New Zealand to watch the matches and it is likely the captain for the World Cup would be announced after the fourth ODI, the sources said.

    The chairman will also meet Waqar to ask him why he issued the press statement on such an important issue.

    The sources said the coach and all other members of the team management knew that it was the prerogative of the Board to decide the captain.

    The sources said the PCB also believed that Waqar indirectly showed his support for Afridi by expressing his astonishment for not announcing the captain.

    They further said the delay in appointing the captain for the World Cup was only a part of the strategy to warn Afridi to give his best and to lead from the front to retain the post. But Waqar might not have been taken into confidence in this regard, the sources concluded.

  24. #24 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 22, 2011 - 6:43 AM

    The PCB is acting STUPID and there is no need to defend themselves and admonish Waqar Younus. Also, there is NO NEED for IJAZ BUTT to go to New Zealand to take this trivial decision. This is not something that needs to be decided in New Zealand. He has taken it as an excuse to travel at the PCB expense, this is just an outing, a picnic and a means to earn extra money on traveling allowances. Ijaz Butt needs to be fired with immediate effect.

  25. #25 by khansahab on January 22, 2011 - 9:51 AM

    The stage is set for Misbah to be made captain. Afridi under pressure and the team performed like a minnow team. Misbah played slow and he is only performing to become captain. Why does Butt need to travel to NZ? Is Pakistan going to lose this series?

  26. #26 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 22, 2011 - 11:48 AM

    khansahab

    I think Pakistan will bounce back from here but, they need to play Gul in the team. Just look at the pathetic bowling of Shoaib Akhtar he gave away 47 runs in 4 overs. He should be asked to declare himself unfit and they must send him home and get back Tanvir Ahmad in the team. It makes no sense to have Akhtar in the ODI team, to a certain extent I may agree his inclusion in T20, but if he continues to bowl like this, even in T20 he is a big liability. Sohail Tanvir too is a liability he has not played international cricket for a long time and he has been included in the WC squad. Don’t these selectors think before they take any action?

    The batsmen need to put up a decent total for their bowlers to defend it. Mohammad Hafeez’s utility in this match was ZERO, he scored zero and he did not bowl a single ball. So was Umar Akmal who was out on the first ball. The way all these players got out, giving away 5 catches to the wicketkeeper McCullum and 5 wickets to Southee appears like they have presented it in a silver platter. How come the NZ openers were smashing the ball from ball one? They scored 50 in six overs! It is a shameful defeat. New Zealand has won its first ODI after a consecutive defeat of 9 ODI’s.

    With these batsmen playing like this, there is more demand for Mohammad Yousuf’s inclusion in the team.

  27. #27 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 22, 2011 - 12:03 PM

    The way Misbah ul Haq got out in the end is not an unusual sight, we have seen this many times. I still don’t understand why he has to play a stupid shot like that? Each time he plays a shot like that he gets out. The ball was swinging even in the 28th, 29th and 30th over when he hit a a six and a couple of fours, so it was very obvious to everyone that he was simply playing a game for scoring runs at an extremely slow run rate and his first target was to score 50 and remain not out, but he could not resist the stupid shot that he always plays.

  28. #28 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 22, 2011 - 12:22 PM

    khansahab

    For us watching cricket and staying home under these weather conditions was the only charm and even that too has been taken away by these idiots. Right now we are in deep freeze with high temp. being -23C and low @ -30C and the forecast for the next 4-5 days is similar. But, this is January and between Jan. 15th and Feb. 20th we do expect this kinda cold. And, with windchill factor it goes below -40C and I ask people this question: “Who says HELL is HOT?” 😀

    Btw, on the lighter side, have you seen this video of Veena Malik?







  29. #29 by khansahab on January 22, 2011 - 12:51 PM

    Javed A Khan

    Veena Malik is cheap shit. She has humiliated Pakistan in Big Boss which was held in India. She has led Indian people to believe that Pakistani women are cheap, stupid, morally bankrupt.

    I don’t blame Indians for thinking in such manner about Pakistanis when they are exposed to people like Veena Malik etc. The fact is that if you look at the Pakistan entertainment industry you see a lot of women who are educated and sensible, but non Pakistanis cannot know about them if they don’t have exposure to them.

  30. #30 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 22, 2011 - 1:15 PM

    khansahab

    To be very honest until this moment (prior to seeing this video part -1, 2 and 3) I have never seen Veena Malik before in my life (may be a photo, but I don’t remember her face) and today when I saw this debate on you tube that too because someone told me to watch it and I just did. I want to tell you that her case is being blown out of proportion. That Mullah was cornered by her when she posed direct and pertinent questions. To tell you the truth, she put up a very good fight and answered his questions very well. She was blunt enough to call the politicians as thugs, cheats, rogues, raashi (the one who takes bribes) and even called some of the Mullahs (without naming any) as rapists (child molesters).

    I haven’t seen that Indian TV reality show and I have no intention of seeing it because, I have no interest in such shows be it from Bollywood or Hollywood. If you haven’t seen these 3 episodes of this debate, then you must see it. Prior to seeing this video I was also biased against her on the basis of hearsay from the media and comments from friends. I only came to know about her because of her marriage or relationship with Mohammad Asif. After seeing this video, I felt a bit sympathetic towards her because, there may be many worst cases than her’s and she is being targeted by the media and the public because, she is famous or she has become very famous. From the debate, she sounds sensible and educated, definitely much more educated than the Dumb Brown Mira.

    Whatever Veena Malik does in her private life (which she has made it public life now) is still her own case, (fail – Urdu wala fail) her own act and she is responsible for that, But, others who are also corrupt and are not on the right path have no right to criticize her. Because, according to our own religion first we have to correct ourselves and only then we can speak, but we still do not have the right to criticize others. In fact we should be so good and exemplary that others should follow us by their own will and not by force, fear or by criticism.

    Reportedly, once a woman came to our Prophet Mohammad and told him to admonish his son who eats a lot of dates. So, he asked her to come after 3 or 4 days’ when the woman came again with her son, the Prophet told him not to eat too many dates. The woman asked: ‘That’s all? If this was the case that you have to say only this, then why didn’t you tell this on day one?” The Prophet replied, “because that day I also ate too many dates and I wanted to wait for this period of time so that it gets out of my system and during this time, I have also promised to myself that I will not eat too many dates.”

    This is an example of preach what you practice. If some of the Mullah’s practice something else and preach something else then obviously they are doing the wrong thing.

  31. #31 by khansahab on January 22, 2011 - 1:34 PM

    Javed A Khan

    I have seen the interview and I agree she makes good points. However I have seen some clips of the Big Boss programme and in that programme she is behaving very cheaply. There were other people in that programme from all walks of life from all over India and her behaviour was the most disgusting.

    By the way it is rumoured that the Meera will be the Pakistani representative in the next Big Boss edition.

  32. #32 by khansahab on January 22, 2011 - 2:06 PM

    Former chief selectors lash out at Afridi for irresponsible attitude

    KARACHI, Jan 22 (APP): Former Pakistan Captain Aamir Sohail and legendary leg-spinner Abdul Qadir on Saturday lashed out at captain Shahid Afridi for highly irresponsible behavior in the first One-Day International against New Zealand at Wellington earlier in the day.“How a captain can ask other players to show responsibility if he himself is guilty of such horrible strokes to let the team down”, former Chief Selector Abdul Qadir said in his comments at Pakistan Television.
    Pakistan was struggling at 57-5 in 20th over when Pakistan One-day Captain Afridi joined Pakistan Test Captain Misbah-ul-Haq at the crease.
    Playing in his typical suicidal fashion Afridi was caught behind off Tim Southee for 29-ball 15 runs.
    Shahid Afridi’s captaincy was already under fire after Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) did not name the captain while announcing the 15-member squad for the World Cup jointly staged in Bangladesh, India and Sri Lanka from February 19.
    “After his brilliant run in the Test series, Misbah showed the way how to bat under pressure in demanding conditions with a gritty half century”, he said.
    Pakistan suffered one of the most humiliating of defeats thrashed by New Zealand by nine wicket with as many as 32.4 of 50 overs remaining.
    The win ended the Kiwi’s streak of 11 consecutive defeats.“This is professional cricket and the professionals have to perform in all playing conditions and under all circumstances. The conditions or the swinging balls should not be blamed”, he said.
    Aamir Sohail, who also remained National Chief Selector, also expressed his serious dismay of Pakistan team’s batting disaster.
    “This is certainly the worst of the preparation ahead of next month’s World Cup”, he commented.

  33. #33 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 22, 2011 - 5:44 PM

    khansahab

    Meera is reportedly 36 plus in age and most people already consider her as glory of the past, whatever it may be she is definitely downhill from audiences point of view. I don’t care about her looks or whatever but, what bothers me is reportedly she is a graduate from Kinnard College in Lahore and their standard of education is pretty good but, Meera can hardly speak a sentence in English without making mistakes. Whereas, Veena Malik’s English is so much better and even in Urdu she is very articulate whereas, Meera finds it hard to communicate even in Urdu.

    Btw, which actress in India and Pakistan doesn’t act cheaply? They are all chips of the same block but, it is their way of life, the belong to the entertainment industry and that is their job and masses prefer cheap stints.

  34. #34 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 22, 2011 - 5:48 PM

    khansahab

    As regards former selectors like Abdul Qadir, Aamir Churail etc., they love to be in the limelight and blab for one reason only and i.e., they like to be seen or heard thru the media. Even if Afridi had scored 50 odd runs and the whole team had scored they way they did and lost in the same number of overs at the same score these Churails would have still criticized Afridi because, he is the captain and he is not from…….. you know from where?

  35. #35 by khansahab on January 22, 2011 - 9:16 PM

    Salman Butt breaks his silence, calls Afridi “clueless” and publicly declares his support for Misbah:

  36. #36 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 22, 2011 - 9:47 PM

    khansahab …………. on Salman Butt…….

    What else do you expect from a Juwari, Suttay Baaz and jingoist? He will of course support his Girayeen. Bakaoz, now he knows that his cricketing career is over and he will be banned for life for sure. KHAS KAM JEHAN PAAK.

  37. #37 by khansahab on January 22, 2011 - 11:06 PM

    Javed A Khan

    The presenter in this Veena Malik programme is not saying, “decision”, but, “deci-en”.

  38. #38 by khansahab on January 22, 2011 - 11:40 PM

    Some quotes of Asim Kamal from latest interview:

    “You may consider it my fate that I emerged at a time when Pakistan had a very strong middle order. I had to compete with the likes of Inzamam, Younis and Yousuf which was a tough ask”

    “What irks me is that I was always in and out of the team in spite of performing well. This continued even after Inzamam bhai’s retirement- a time when there was a vacancy in the middle order.”

    “I not only performed well against the likes of Glenn McGrath and Shane Warne, but also created pressure on our own players who possibly saw me as a threat to their careers due to the ease with which I played at Test level.”

    In fact, I found it easy to play Tests and in my view, I would have easily been one of Pakistan’s top batsmen if I had been persisted with.”

    It is true that Asim Kamal was at one time competing with Shahid Afridi for a place and Afridi was preferred because he was a better fielder, he could bowl and his test form was OK. But, Inzamam could have created a place for Kamal in the line up if he wanted. Reportedly Aamer Sohail has blamed Inzamam for destroying Kamal’s career. There is a thread about this on Pakpassion and a lot of viewers blame regional politics for this. Pity that the country suffers.

    Inzamam was a very good batsman and in some respects he was world class, but generally he is overrated. He was never consistent and he probably felt his own place was under threat by Kamal.

  39. #39 by khansahab on January 23, 2011 - 10:14 AM

    Big loss puts Afridi under pressure

    KARACHI: Pressure is mounting on Shahid Afridi both as Pakistan’s captain and the team’s most senior player, after the tourists were crushed by New Zealand in their first One-day International in Wellington on Saturday.

    Under a magnifying glass due to a variety of reasons, Afridi was unable to rise to the occasion as his team was bowled out for a paltry 124 before the Black Caps wrapped up a nine-wicket triumph, their first in 12 ODI appearances.

    Afridi came to the crease after Pakistan had lost their top five batters for just 57 and it was anticipated that the flamboyant allrounder will rebuild the innings with his vice-captain Misbah-ul-Haq — standing at the other end.

    But he could add just 31 more to the total before becoming one of Tim Southee’s five victims. Afridi scored 15 off 29 balls.

    Defending a meagre total, Pakistan were unable to provide any resistance to the hosts who cruised to victory in just 17.2 overs.

    The loss could add to Afridi’s problems as the Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) continues to mull over the option of installing Misbah as the country’s captain for World Cup 2011 which begins from February 19.

    Misbah has emerged as a candidate for Pakistan captaincy after leading the team to its first Test series triumph in four years earlier this month. The senior batsman is in great form and has hit fifties in his last six Test innings. He also struck a half-century in Saturday’s one-dayer against New Zealand.

    Just a few months back, Afridi told ‘The News’ that it is his greatest desire to lead Pakistan to World Cup glory.

    But it could be a case of so near yet to so far for the allrounder.

    Till a couple of weeks back, he seemed set to get World Cup captaincy but things have changed now.

    Ijaz Butt, the PCB chairman, is in New Zealand and is monitoring Afridi’s performance first hand. Butt is expected to name Pakistan’s World Cup captain soon.

    According to well-placed sources, Afridi will have to lead Pakistan from the front in the up coming ODIs against the Black Caps to retain captaincy for the World Cup.

  40. #40 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 23, 2011 - 3:43 PM

    My name is KHAN, THE DANGEROUS PATHAN

    What a great innings but, in vain. Yousuf Pathan played yet another great innings but, India is bound to lose this match after his departure. Except for Prithiv Patel, the Indian batsmen played very poorly especially Dhoni, Yuvraj being seniors played very poor shots. Dhoni’s form is very pathetic and he is again playing those jerky shots and getting out cheaply. When Yousuf Pathan came in, the match was already in SA’s pocket 118/8 but from there on he played magnificently hitting 8 powerful sixes, one of them being so flat, reminded me of Shahid Afridi’s flat six against Sri Lanka in Nairobi, Kenya that went low like a missile and the bowler was Kumara Dharmasena (who is now an umpire) it went very low and very flat and hit the stairs of the half empty stadium and came back into the ground.

    India were looking for a historic series win may not be able to achieve the feat. Hashim Alma remained 116 n.o. and the rest of the SA players barring Van Wyk got out cheaply, at one moment before the rain interruption it appeared that SA will make 300 but, lost 6 wickets for 19 runs, CHOKERS!

  41. #41 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 23, 2011 - 3:45 PM

    India needs 37 in 48 balls and it seems very much achievable and possible, BUT they don’t have wickets in hand the last hope is Zaheer Khan and Munna Bhai Patel is vulnerable and can get out on any ball.

  42. #42 by newguy on January 23, 2011 - 4:35 PM

    Well, what a knock and half from Yousuf Pathan!!! too bad he had to end up on the losing side, only because the three musketeers in the middle order Dhoni, Yuvraj, and Raina got out in single digits. Pathetic from senior pros like Dhoni and Youvraj, and Raina too is a senior now in the squad. YKP single handedly almost took India to a famous win and a historic series win. But he had no partners in the end to carry on. In some ways this innings resembled the Razzaq innings again SA in Abu Dhabi. Only on that occasion Razzaq got Pak through. I was thinking that if Yousuf got another 20 runs or so and India came within 30 runs of win then SA will wilt under pressure and give away the match. Smith and the rest of the bowling and fielding were sweating when YKP went over 100 with a brutal six. But got lucky that the attempted six off Morkel found an outside edge. If that also went for six SA would have chocked because their trump card Morkel was hit for six, like Harbhajan did in two games prior.

    Anyway, Dhoni as captain do not deserve a historic ODI series win in SA for the first time since he hasn’t done anything worthy with the bat all series. If only Dhoni contributed India would have won easily.

    It will interesting to see how Dhoni will pick up form for WC. Overall though a second string Indian team did really well to compete in the ODI series and they won the T20I. No harm done throughout the entire SA series, Indians were expected to be pulverized by many observers in SA and SA dominating test and ODI with their so called best in world fast bowling. But they did not and struggled in both Tests and ODIs. Test series was drawn mainly due to Kallis last innings stand, and ODI series SA deserved bit more than SA even though both played poorly, India played more poorly.

    Australia however is looking good, this is not a good sign for others. They won 3 games in row against England, and they do not have a weakness playing in the sub-continent unlike Eng and SA.

  43. #43 by khansahab on January 23, 2011 - 5:24 PM

    Yousaf Pathan is fast establishing himself as one of the best all rounders in limited overs.

    Close series won by South Africa, who appear to have a slight edge over India. South Africa is probably going into the World Cup with the best specialist batsmen and bowlers, but mentally they are not strong. India is not very strong mentally either. Sri Lanka is a very balanced team and Australia is the strongest mentally. England has a fighting chance, but will find it hard to beat India and Sri Lanka on home pitches. Pakistan on paper comes after all these teams and as I said earlier, Pakistan can go into the semis if Afridi, Razzaq and Hafeez perform consistently.

  44. #44 by 420 on January 23, 2011 - 7:44 PM

    KhanSahab
    you said it right, AUS is the favorite at the moment to me too.

    what a knock by yousuf today, missed a razzakish finish 😦

  45. #45 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 23, 2011 - 9:10 PM

    The catch taken by FAF De Plessis or FA-D-P-C as pronounced took a magnificent catch of Prithiv Patel. I thought he floored it especially when he changed the hands. Initially he caught in left hand and then transferred the ball to the right one or vice versa (not sure right or left) and at that moment it appeared that he had floored it. But, his two fingers were under it and the ball remained on his two fingers, the ultra slow motion confirmed it. He then rolled over and NO camera covered it. So, we don’t know whether the ball still remained in his hands or he floored it. In any case it was a very good attempt. Patel could not believe his eyes because he had hit it very hard and he was playing very well. It is very unfortunate that he got out at the wrong time.

    Pathan’s efforts resembled Abdul Razzaq’s innings the only difference was not just in winning but, Abdul Razzaq continued hitting all the bowlers even after his 100. Pathan’s 100 came with a mighty six and I remember Smith’s face, he was pale and nervous. It would have been nice if India had won, but like newguy said, “Dhoni as a captain does not deserve a historic ODI series win.” I am agree. 😀

  46. #46 by khansahab on January 23, 2011 - 11:15 PM

    Yousuf Pathan has grown a beard. He is a son of a Muezzin and him and Irfan were training to be Muezzins before they started playing cricket at a high level.

    Once Zaheer Khan kept a beard too but then got rid of it.

    The Pathan brothers hail from a religious Muslim family, but Irfan’s fiance is a Hindu girl which means he must be liberal in his beliefs.

  47. #47 by khansahab on January 23, 2011 - 11:45 PM

    Mazhar Majeed doesn’t want Afridi as captain

    Mazhar Majeed is on Twitter and has been making some very interesting comments today:

    Afridi cannot be captain! doesn’t know how to speak to players and totally arrogant! All of the players hate him and he is totally overrated

    Will speak the truth when i am allowed to do so. Solicitor has restrained me from talking but truth will always prevail! do not trust afridi
    http://twitter.com/Mazhar0000/status/29244006105874432

    Since when did the law become guilty until proven innocent? All im saying is i know players very well and they hate Afridi with good reason
    http://twitter.com/Mazhar0000/status/29252554978238464

  48. #48 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 24, 2011 - 1:07 AM

    Mazhar Majeed is a MF Bastard, no character, no loyalties to any country only MONEY is his religion and he worship money. What else do you expect from a Juwari, SuttayBaaz? Its a known thing since ages that people who are into betting sell their assets such as homes, cars, jewelery and even lost their wives in gambling. Mazhar Majeed has nothing to lose he has already lost the biggest thing a man possess i.e., Character and Conscience and he has neither of it.

  49. #49 by newguy on January 24, 2011 - 3:14 AM

    Javed Khan,

    Regarding the catch of Parthiv Patel, it was a marginal call since the camera evidence was inconclusive, in this case the South African third umpire gave benefit of doubt to the fielder. Normally in marginal calls batsman gets benefit of doubt. In the 3rd ODI JP Duminy was run out was by Yousuf Patahn bringing the ball down on the bail, but this was another marginal call, and in this instance the South African third umpire gave benefit of doubt to the batsman. In both cases South African received the benefit of doubt.

    This does not mean that South Africa wasn’t the better team in the ODIs, they were by a small margin as indicated by the tight series results. But what this shows is that even with a review system things can be very biased against one team. Unless of course the third umpire is also a neutral. But this is not the case now.

    All throughout the series, South African commentators were biased, but I ignored most of it since home side commentators usually are, Indians like Gavaskar and Ravi Shastri are also biased for Indians, although some like Ravi Shastri tries to be better. But what I found amusing was the double standard when people like Mark Hayesman would pounce on not using UDRS as a mistake when the umpiring mistakes are against SA, but when it is against India they won’t open their mouth. In one match, Greame Smith clearly nicked one to keeper Dhoni off Zaheer and the replayed showed this, but SA commentators chose not to show snicko and underplayed it, they just said “ooh” and that something like “may be high on pad” when clearly it showed bat was away from pad and a thin deflection was off bat.

    Anyway it is all done and dusted, people like Shawn Pollock who said India will not come back and more of the same bounce in Durban with a hint Indians losing badly are all answered. Now, Pollock and other South Africans are singing another tune.

  50. #50 by newguy on January 24, 2011 - 3:29 AM

    Khansahab,

    South Africans look strong on paper, but in reality they have no balance. When they toured India last year they lost ODI series 3-2, just like India lost now in SA. But they had a full strength team and in one of the ODI matches where Tendulkar scored 200*, they got whacked for 400 plus runs, including some brutal hitting by Dhoni. Dale Steyn ended up some 70 runs in 10 overs and so did everyone else I recall.

    I think Sri Lanka is a team to reckon with and Australia has no weakness in sub-continents. As for mental strength, the way I look at it, if a team has plenty of runs on board then mental strength will come automatically 🙂 similarly if they are getting a good start and able to whack a few fours and sixes then also mental strength will show up 🙂

    Not to take it lightly what you said though that in crunch situations a team that holds nerve will come out better and Australians traditionally are ready for a scrape than others. Though recently in many matches they have shown weakness in scrap situations. Mohali test against India comes to mind, and Lords test against Pakistan also comes to mind.

    Anyway, in my view, WC is still very open. Every team will get good month long warm up against minnows and some easy to beat teams in league phase, then it’s a question of three good games.

    I think Afridi is toast as far as captaincy is concerned, not that I am happy with it, but this is how politics seems to be played out. When someone is put under microscope by saying you are given one series to prove it not only by your team winning but your own leadership from front, that means that person is being set up for failure and they are just waiting to push him out no matter what he does.

    Now, I hope Afridi will blast a 60 ball hundred and take a few wickets to make it tough for everyone who is plotting against him.

  51. #51 by Mohammed Munir on January 24, 2011 - 5:35 AM

    Seeing the above Salman MF Butt’s video as well as reading Mazhar MC Majeed comments, it seems like Sahibzada Mohammed Shahid Khan Afridi has ruffled their feathers and has put his foot hard on their tails. 😉

    With characterless and corrupt-to-the-core Butt and Mazhar badmouthing Shahid Afridi, it goes to prove how honest and sincere Afridi is to Cricket and Pakistan.

    Peoples like Mazher Majeed will do anything for money while Salman Butt also involved his sister’s name and her wedding storey to save his own skin when he was caught red-handed with foreign currency notes in his hotel room.

    Big Shame on Salman-the-Butt. 😀

  52. #52 by Mohammed Munir on January 24, 2011 - 5:37 AM

    So then, Wasim Akram was not utterly wrong after all …. 😉

    India’s long and toiling tour has finally ended, and although the final results look much more respectable, but the performances of Indian stars were way below the Indian fans’ expectations who all got exposed on greener-pastures.

    Not only Indian top-brass batsmen failed miserably and are now left with a huge gap in their morale but to add salt to injury, many of their important players are nursing injuries. This becomes all the more worrisome as we are just approaching the most important and prestigious cricket tournament. Add to this, India is the major host for the World Cup and their over one billion fans are already praying for the 1983 revival, so one can imagine the pressure on these players.

    Below is the link of ‘Tour Stats’ from the recently concluded India – SA tournament, and to prove my point about some of the Indian batsmen, see the averages of Raina, Yuvraj, Dhonie, Dravid, Sharma, etc.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/south-africa-v-india-2010/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling.html?class=13;id=5924;type=tour

  53. #53 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 24, 2011 - 8:13 AM

    newguy

    I agree with you on the biased SA commentators, the worst of all is Robin Jackman. That old man is 66 now and he needs to hang his boots and sit in his living room watching cricket on TV rather than commentating. He is such an ignorant bloke and yet considers himself as a very clever Jacka$$.

    In this last ODI, on one occasion when SA were fielding the umpire counted the number of fielders in the inner circle during the PP and gave a no ball. Robin said, “now that is a no ball, they will get a FREE HIT.” That idiot didn’t know that a free hit is awarded only when the bowler steps over the line. Ravi Shastri, in a very mild way snubbed him by saying “Robin a free hit is awarded ONLY in case of line no-ball.” How come Robin doesn’t know this basic rule? Not only he is a TV commentator but, he is an ex-test player. Simply because he is white, played for England and former Rhodesia does not mean he is not ignorant. He is just an idiot.

  54. #54 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 24, 2011 - 8:24 AM

    Munir

    A couple of years ago Rohit Sharma was impressive, he didn’t get many chances then because of Raina. But, he got himself a name from the IPL and not only a name but a lot of money that made him FAT and LETHARGIC. Look at his face now, his cheeks have swollen up like he has been attacked by a swarm of bees and you could hardly see his eyes. Its a shame that money can ruin these players like Yuvraj, Dhoni and even Raina now. Irfan Pathan was sold for this latest IPL for $1.6 million. So, for him it is not important to get selected in the Indian squad for WC because he is now a Bollywood like celebrity because of his looks. Whereas, the dangerous Pathan knows his place and preferred to remain simple and focusing on his game.

    Wasim Akram said something which could have gone either way, there is no Einstein in it. Besides, that guy has no character whatever he says or does, who cares?

    Btw, did you see those 3 videos of Veena Malik debating with the Mullah? You must see that. Reportedly she has drawn a lot of sympathies and more than 50% of the viewers are on her side now. I never watch these programmes but, someone I know sent me a link and I thought it is interesting. I was also told that last night she appeared again on TV, I dunno what she said ‘coz I haven’t seen that programme. But, it will soon be on you tube.

  55. #55 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 24, 2011 - 4:04 PM

    INZAMAM BLASTS AT THE PCB FOR NOT NAMING THE CAPTAIN FOR THE WC

    Although Inzamam ul Haq has severely criticized the PCB for appointing a captain for the WC 2011 he has not shown his support for Afridi or Misbah. The question remains who is he supporting? Salman The Nikki Butt wants Misbah and he says, “Misbah is a born captain and an ideal leader.” LOL @ his statement. If Misbah is a born captain what took him 37 years to become a captain? Misbah’s career is full of failures. He is presently scoring runs because:

    1. He is being supported by Ijaz Butt and a majority of the PCB jokers and they want to make him a captain.
    2. He is least bothered about the results, he only wants his name to be preserved and playing negative cricket, going for draws and saving his skin.
    3. He is clueless about what is going on the field, and as a captain he knows nothing about bowling changes, field placement etc.
    4. He is a politician and plays calm and cool, just like still water runs deep. Deep inside he has plans to get rid of Afridi as captain so that Mazhar Majeed can come back to the players and ruin their careers and Misbah will make a golden shake hands with him.
    5. He is doing what Ijaz Butt wants to do, keep his mouth shut and dance at the tune of the PCB.

    6. The reason Pakistan played well in tests is because of the bowling of Umar Gul and Tanvir Ahmad, both are missing in the ODI. They should kick out Shoaib Akhtar and Sohail Tanvir from it. Also, bring back Mohammad Yousuf and play him in place of Asad Shafiq. The team will win the rest of the matches against NZ without any doubt.

  56. #56 by khansahab on January 24, 2011 - 5:04 PM

    Divide, rule, and destroy

    Kamran Abbasi

    Any tinge of happiness at Pakistan’s Test series victory over New Zealand is rapidly vanishing courtesy of a farce orchestrated by the Pakistan Cricket Board. The national team’s chances of winning the 2011 World Cup look wobbly enough without more self-inflicted damage.

    Invariably, cricket boards know who their first choice captain is, especially so close to a major tournament. Often, the captain has some say in squad selection. While Pakistan’s selection process has come to resemble a tin-pot dictatorship, the selection of a captain had not previously been in doubt – even if Shahid Afridi was to be snubbed at the last.

    Now Afridi is no longer assured of the captaincy. He has either been too outspoken or too out of form to be named as he should have been. Only the PCB knows what it is playing at. Coach Waqar Younis’ justified complaint about this strategy was met with a disciplinary charge. Benign dictatorships can be productive but malevolent ones are destructive.

    Pakistan’s last all-powerful captain, Inzamam-ul Haq, has now raised his voice against the cricket board’s divide and rule policy. Indeed, this blog will record Inzi’s words for posterity so that we can refer back to them in the dark days of the World Cup campaign:

    “With only three weeks left to the World Cup, Pakistan have no captain and the blame goes to the PCB for creating an impasse which has divided the team into two groups, supporting Afridi and Misbah. In this scenario one cannot have high expectations for the team.

    “The PCB has failed to control the situation and if Pakistan fares badly in the World Cup, people will accuse the players and not the board.

    “When a team is without a captain how can a proper strategy be made? The team is playing a one-day series in New Zealand but they do not know who will be their captain in the World Cup which is very damaging.”

    The PCB has groomed a captain for this World Cup. His name is Shahid Afridi. He might have limitations, but, with senior colleagues around him, those can be overcome. The PCB needs to stop being precious about its own ego and start allowing Pakistan’s World Cup campaign to take shape. The longer any doubt lingers over leadership, the harder it will be for the team to gather any momentum before this year’s biggest tournament.

  57. #57 by khansahab on January 24, 2011 - 5:08 PM

    Javed A Khan

    Inzamam is the type of person who will not support merit if emotions and biases get the better of him. He is the one who kept out players like Asim Kamal and he fostered mediocrity in the form of Shoaib Malik and K Akmal.

    I have seen some great innings from Inzamam and my respect for him is only limited to those few innings, but apart from that he was a weak leader, overrated batsman and defensive.

    The type of respect he had he could have instilled a culture of merit in the team but in fact he came something of a symbol representing one region of Pakistan. In the last 2 years of his career he was only playing for records and his performance was below average.

  58. #58 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 24, 2011 - 5:47 PM

    khansahab

    Kamran Abassi may have written a fairy tale about Afridi’s talents and nominated him as the captain for the 2011 WC but, BUTT & CO. are least bothered about who says what? They will do what they have to do.

    Its a shame that this present culture in Pakistan is not the same which Jinnah has envisioned nor, it is the dream of the people who wanted Pakistan, these people are out there to loot the country, destroy it and pocket money for themselves. And, they want YES MEN around them and who can dance at their tune and say Butt Boss You are Right…….. Even if he Fracks his Butt, they will say: JaNaaB Aap Sayee Farmanday!

    I would like the people of Pakistan to stand up for the sake of cricket in Pakistan and get rid of this BUTT CULTURE. However, it seems like a dream for most Pakistanis to see the Backside of the Butt which he so shamefully displays it all the time but, as long as Zardari is there, Butt is there. IF he dies of a Butt Attack in New Zealand then I will distribute sweets to the poor from a local sweet shop called “Butt Sweets” or, Halwiyaat Butt.

  59. #59 by khansahab on January 24, 2011 - 7:44 PM

    Newguy

    I am relying on Australia’s no 1 ODI ranking and the fact that, imagine South Africa or India playing a semi final or final against Australia- these teams just don’t have the nerve to face Australia in a final. Pakistan is so mentally weak against Australia that its worst defeats have come at the hands of Australia and last year there was a series when a 2nd string Australian team beat Pakistan convincingly. So, the subcontinent teams have a mental problem against Australia whereas South Africa have historically choked in crucial matches. This is why I think if Australia manages to reach the semis, it will win. Ponting, Clarke, Hussey brothers- these guys will not perform badly in a semi final or final.

    What is possible is that Australia is trounced at the quarter final stage- that is possible and every team must target them.

    At the start of the WC I am placing Sri Lanka, India, South Africa and Australia equally but if Australia reaches the semis, they are likely to win. England and Pakistan have an outside fighting chance but they must perform consistently.

    Pakistan is in a hopeless situation because in the past few years they have won due to individual performances mainly. And these individuals, whether it is Razzaq, Younis Khan or Umar Gul, they are talented but inconsistent. I don’t have hopes with Misbah- he is not an innings driver, he plays with a defensive psyche. For this reason Pakistan’s best batsman in the WC will be Younis Khan but he needs to improve consistency.

  60. #60 by khansahab on January 24, 2011 - 7:46 PM

    And whatever the captain does- Razzaq must not open the bowling in any match; it is too much a risk.

  61. #61 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 24, 2011 - 11:36 PM

    I agree that Abdul Razzaq should not open the bowling for Pakistan. Wahab Riaz and Umar Gul should open. Wahab is fast and has improved a lot since the last few months.

    What I don’t understand is Pakistani captains they don’t utilize the full bowling options from the part timers. Example, Fawad Alam was never used as a bowler. Whereas, if you look at India, apart from Harbhajan, Ohja, Chawla or any other specialist spinner they have the following part time spinners:

    Yuvraj Sing
    Sehwag
    Tendulkar
    Raina
    Rohit Sharma
    Yousuf Pathan

    So, India has many options whereas, Pakistan plays with Afridi as a leg spinner then, either Saeed Ajmal or Abdur Rahman plays, so the bowling department is weak. Hafeez was utilized by Afridi but, not by Misbah in tests and if Misbah becomes the captain for the WC, then Hafeez should say bye-bye to his bowling. In the subcontinent they are talking about slow pitches favouring spinners but, in case of day and night matches, the team fielding second will have problems with DUE and spinners may not be able to grip the ball well. So, this due factor is not being taken seriously, perhaps ALL matches are just DAY matches, I have not seen the schedule yet.

  62. #62 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 24, 2011 - 11:41 PM

    Blaming Afridi for defeat absurd: Sallu


    It is unfair to blame Shahid Afridi solely for a single defeat at Wellington: Salahuddin Ahmed Sallu.—AFP

    KARACHI: Former Test cricketer and chief selector Salahuddin Ahmed Sallu on Monday said blaming skipper Shahid Afridi for Pakistan`s poor show in the first ODI at Wellington is unjust as the whole team had flopped badly to hand convincing win to the Kiwis.

    Talking to Dawn , Sallu pointed out that Afridi had scored 601 runs with two centuries and had a strike rate of 144 in 2010, coupled with 19 wickets in the ODIs, and it was unfair to blame him solely for a single defeat at Wellington.

    “A few former cricketers are putting the blame squarely on Afridi because they have an axe to grind with the all-rounder,” said Sallu.

    “They are also citing Afridi`s performance in the recently concluded 20-20 series against the Kiwis but then they should also consider that it was his bowling (4-14) that was key to Pakistan`s victory in the last Twenty20 game.”

    Not mincing any words about Afridi`s critics, Sallu said the agenda of these handful of ex-cricketers was quite obvious to everyone.

    “May I ask these critics what was the performance of our openers and middle order batsmen in the first ODI, barring Misbah-ul-Haq?

    “All others including opener Mohammad Hafeez, Younis Khan, Asad Shafiq and Umar Akmal have been in New Zealand for the past three weeks and well acclimatised with the conditions, and yet they failed to score even 40 runs between them.

    “These critics must realise that one-day cricket is not a single wicket competition and blaming an individual for the defeat is quite absurd,” argued Sallu.

    “Can the detractors of Afridi tell me how any team could defend a small 124-run target, and that too on a field that had short boundaries? Even Sir Gary Sobers would find it difficult to defend this total in a Twenty20 game, let alone a fifty over match.”

    Sallu also criticised senior bowler Shoaib Akhtar who conceded as many as 47 runs in just 4 overs to nearly settle the contest in the hosts` favour.
    “Shoaib`s spell is hard to defend and I would even suggest that it would be better if spinners are introduced sooner in the innings since the New Zealanders are traditionally vulnerable to spin,” said Sallu.

    “There are another five games to be played and I am confident that Afridi and his boys will come back strongly in the series.”

  63. #63 by newguy on January 24, 2011 - 11:47 PM

    Khansahab,

    I understand your point about Austrailans and crunch matches, but I also think there is a bit of recency in that in the sense Australians had very good teams that were hard to beat in a crunch match situation, those days are over. Sure they have Hussey brothers, Watson, Clark, and Ponting, but they are a bit overrated at this point. Ponting is not the force he was and I don’t think he will be, especially in the sub-continent where he always struggled, Puppy Clark is not in form. They are not the same team. I think it is a mistake to think your opponents are better even before the match begin, therefore I would have to disagree with you on this. Australia is beatable even in a semi-final or final, and that is the attitude needed by any team that wants to be champion team. Otherwise what is the point in saying Australia must be beaten in quarter finals or league phase, because we can’t beat them in final. Then those teams do not deserve to be WC champion.

  64. #64 by newguy on January 24, 2011 - 11:54 PM

    JAK,

    You are right Indians have many part time bowlers who are good, include Virat Kohli to the mix as he can also bowl a few overs. The trouble is that India’s main bowlers like Nehra and Munaf can leak so many runs 🙂 then captain have to depend on part timers. In the recent SA series in one match the part timers had much better economy rate and wickets compared to full timers, it’s not really a desirable outcome 🙂 and then what happens when your part timers and full timers both are taken to cleaners.

    I still prefer Pakistan’s line of bowlers with good variety, if they have runs on board then I think Pakistan’s bowlers are a force. It is the batting that is a problem. India will depend on openers to succeed, if openers do well then middle order will click. In the recent ODI series the middle order of Yuvraj, Raina, and Dhoni failed repeatedly because the openers were not there to provide a good start. With Sehwag, Tendulkar and Gambhir at the top one would expect Indian middle order to click. But we will have to see what will happen to bowlers?

    Dhoni’s captaincy days should be coming to an end soon. He hasn’t performed in Tests or ODI’s with the bat and India cannot afford a non-playing captain, especially since there are other keepers who can bat as well. Dhoni should go back to his attacking ways and put some runs on board, or else, Gambhir is ready to take over as captain in both formats of the game. For now, he will get to lead in the WC.

  65. #65 by khansahab on January 25, 2011 - 7:43 AM

    Javed A Khan

    I have seen one or two interviews of Salauddin Sallu and I never liked the way he speaks in terms of the tone of his voice and he pronounces words very strongly because he speaks crisp Urdu. But his views were always unbiased. He is an intelligent guy and it’s a pity people like him cannot be making decisions for the PCB. His views are always proportionate to the subject matter and unlike most commentators he does not speak with bias or emotions.

    When he was selector there was immense pressure on him to drop Afridi, but he didn’t.

  66. #66 by Mohammed Munir on January 25, 2011 - 10:21 AM

    Zahida Malak … aka VEENA MALIK.

    Javed Khan thanks for posting the YouTube links above and though they are by now all over the internet and on so many blogs, but I first saw them right here on LS. To answer your question, yes I have seen those three videos in …. FULL.

    I have tried to remain silent and not comment on Veena Malik issue, but since you have mentioned it, here is how I feel about the whole thing. 😛

    Actually I had seen a few scenes of Indian program Big Boss – 4, which they were showing even on Pakistani (ARY or may be Geo) channels, and so I happen to watch some clippings. BTW, there were two Pakistani contestants, namely, Begum Nawazish Ali who is a Khusra/ Eunuchs and she was exited from Big Boss home in very early stages and this Veena Malik who continued to be the BB member till almost end and was among the very last few to be exited and so she could not win.

    Since BB is a purely commercial program and it survives on creating these dismal controversies, some of the other contestants who contributed were an Indian Muslim advocate of Ajmal Kassab, a Bandit Queen (Indian lady dacoit), WWF wrestler Khaali who was also ‘Khaali’ from top-floor, 😉 , Mahesh Bhatt’s son who is some body-builder, and many others ‘items’. At one time even Pamela Anderson also stayed in BB home for few days, which again was just a publicity-stunt. This BTW, is their modern day idea of family entertainment on these reality-shows.

    Anyhow, Veena Malik got famous and attracted a lot of media attention for all the wrong-reasons. Not only that she was only 2 of the Pakistani entries, but she was ex of Mohammed Asif (whose stories she told all in fullest details). Moreover, she became very good friends with lesser-known Indian actor Ashmit Patel with whom she played, cuddled, kissed, cooked-food-for, danced, even massaged him and etc. on this BB show. Veena also danced with Salman Khan, who was the show host in scantily dressed clothes. So for all these actions, Veena has earned the wrath of Pakistani public and is now reaping the crop of her own goods.

    Before BB, Veena besides working in some second-rated Pakistani movies also worked in a comedy TV serial, “Hum Sab Umeed Sey Hain”, which is a Pakistani TV program targeting the corrupt politicians. Veena contributed in this show by mimicry and jokes on Politians and TV/ film personalities. While she also became notoriously known for her payment scandals with ex and disgraced Pakistan druggy, bookie, gambler, and corrupt cricketer Mohammed Asif. It now seems as if Asif was using her for his own good-times and enjoying her as a ‘side-business’, while she was under the wrong impression that Asif will one day marry her. Since Asif was broke after his earlier drug bans and needed some money, he took advantage of Veena by all means. Later, when Asif announced his wedding plans with another girl, Veena got pi$$ed and lost her patience with him. She not only demanded all her money (which she said she loaned to that MF druggy), but also produced his PDCs (post-dated-cheques) signed in her name. Veena made Police cases against Asif and this made them both famous worldwide. 😀

    Coming back to present day, when Veena Malik came back from Indian show BB, she had to face the Pakistani public’s anger and anguish for all that she did there. However, rather then apologizing or accepting her mistakes (which could have been used by her as a shrewd ploy), she is trying to justify all her actions and moreover blaming the Mullahs and male-folks in general for seeing her in indecent postures. When she was confronted by some religious Mullahs in Pakistan to be friends with Ashmit who is an Indian Hindu, she produced a video of Ashmit offering Muslim prayers (Namaz) with her in BB house. This news landed Ashmit in hot-waters with his own peoples in India, however, the damaged was controlled as Ashmit gave an excuse that Namaz was similar to Yoga exercises and so he did that during the show.

    I think by now I would have created enough interest for everybody to at least view the above videos for once. 😉

    Coming back to Veena saga, the fact is that religion in every society is a very sensitive issue and it becomes more so in Pakistan because the general public is rigid and aggressive in nature (this could be due to lack of education, social fiber of the country or may due to harsh economic conditions, but this itself is another full-fledge debate, which I would like to skip for now). Therefore, in such a society anyone raising voices against the general sentiments can be very dangerous. Veena has argued, fought, abused and clashed with the religious Mullah in the video and she told him that she also reads Quran and prays and knows too much about religion. Actually the problem is that Veena Malik being Veena Malik is not just a single person anymore and unfortunately because of her popularity status and media publicity she has become a modernity icon for many younger Pakistani boys and girls who are aspiring to join TV-film words. Veena has to take responsibility and understand this and in pursuit of her own materialistic desires, she is conveying very detrimental and dangerous message to younger generation.

    Anyways, any one favouring or opposing Veena Malik for all these dramas is their own call, but in my humble opinion, Veena in her eagerness of media attention, earning lotsa money , and seeking undue popularity is taking too much risks and she could even end-up meeting a fate similar to that of Salman Taseer.

    Finally, I don’t like saying this, but if any such thing happened to her, I for one won’t feel much sorry for her because it is not sensible and smart of her to rub the peoples wrong ways and she should remember that she is living in country where over 95% of the total population is Muslim and there is no need for her to play with these peoples’ sentiments and hurt their religious feelings, because she may end-up paying a huge price for her mistakes.

  67. #67 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 25, 2011 - 12:55 PM

    Munir

    You are not the only one saying, she might end up like Salman Taseer but, almost everyone who saw that video is saying the same thing. Leave aside Veena Malik for a while and talk about the culture that is making that Qadri guy a hero. Salman Taseer as we all know was reportedly very corrupt and characterless guy and if he had died natural death many people would have been happy or, they may not have shown any sympathies because of his corruption. But, when an individual takes the life of another individual he is going against the will of Allah. Because, it is Allah Who has the power to give life and take life and that is why when we hear someone’s death we say: Inna Lillah….. meaning of which is known to everyone that Allah has taken the thing that belongs to Him.

    How can a religious person consider himself equal to Allah (NaoZooBillah) to take someone’s life? And, how come the so-called religion loving and religion practicing people consider this criminal a hero? This is not a holy war and there is no need to bring religion in corruption, it is a civil or criminal case and must be dealt and decided on that basis by the government of the country. If the government is not doing anything, even then an individual has no right to kill someone and claim it as a holy act. NO, this is wrong, this is against the preachings of Islam.

    In Islam respecting others and their religion is very important. So, if a non-Muslim is allowed to practice his own religion within a Islamic State and Muslims have been ordered by Allah through His Book, then anyone who is disobeying the orders of Allah and His Book are the wrong doers and they must be punished and penalized and not proclaimed as a HERO. Islam teaches peace and prosperity, did any of the Mullahs ever approached Salman Taseer in person to tell him what he was doing was wrong or bad and he shouldn’t or mustn’t do it?

    This Mullah on TV has earlier called Veena Malik a Bay Ghairat Aurat and then he was calling her, “aap meri bhen hain,” you are my sister. The point here Munir is, when someone with flaws in their own character and in their own personalities try to give sermons to others and act holier than thou, it is not acceptable. And for those people there is retaliation and repulsion and, it is human nature to repulse and retaliate in such cases. We say, “Pehlay tu apnay aap ko tou theek ker… baad my doosraon ko lecture day….” And, when someone is so nice and transparent and you can see that he preaches what he practice, then you are inclined to get closer to that person and listen to that person and even ready to do what he is doing.

    Khudee Ko Kar Buland Itna Kay Khuda Banday Say Poochay Bata Teri Raza Kya Hai? ” Iqbal ”

    If a banda (man) rises above all the trivialities not only Allah who is Raheem, Rahman, Kareem etc. etc. and He is closest to us than anyone else but, a human being who is always “warghalao” (instigated) by the Shaitaan, even he can get impressed by that person and gets closer to him. Therefore, the first thing is to correct yourself (I mean those who consider themselves as Heroes of Islam) in such a manner that everyone is impressed by their love, compassion and humility.

    When we talk about these things, people say,’there aren’t anymore saints in this world.’ Yes, the definition of a saint is very difficult to sum up, but a human being needs to be humble first and not take the laws of Allah in his own hand and proclaim to be his messenger to end the so-called evil. Even the Messenger of Allah avoided the path of bloodshed and violence and prayed Allah to guide these people to the right path. So, the message for the so-called Heroes of religion, your job is not to act god, your job is to become a better human being.

  68. #68 by newguy on January 25, 2011 - 2:12 PM

    Hi Guys,

    I keep hearing this talk about Veena Malik and I am staying away from posting on this since it’s very specific to internal cultural topic in Pakistan. But since this topic has picked up and all of you seems to be saying she insulted Pakistan in the Indian program BB which I don’t even know existed, I happened to watch the videos and some of the other related videos.

    What I have to say is that this poor girl Veena Malik is given a very tough time by the male dominated society in Pakistan. She looks like a pretty girl, nothing extraordinary or model quality about her, just good looking like a girl next door, she is sounds plain spoken like a small town person. So far I did not find any fault with her. All she seems to have done is to have desire for some reality show exposure like many in her business do. If she danced with some men it’s not a huge sin in my values, and what you call kissing is kissing someone on the cheeks which is a friendly gesture in liberal societies, again nothing wrong with all that. She is a single woman and she should be free to do what she please. I fell really sorry for her.

    I understand the value system in Pakistan and Islamic societies in general are very different and I also believe they are very male dominated.

    Anyhow, I digress from the topic since this could be sensitive to you guys.

  69. #69 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 25, 2011 - 7:04 PM

    newguy

    Like anyone else here, you also have the same right to discuss her because she is a ‘hot’ subject these days. And, you don’t have to be a Pakistani to comment, you can say whatever you feel like. So, please don’t consider that it is a sensitive issue or, you may hurt someone’s feelings, aNO that will not be the case, so feel free to express what you have to say.

    I haven’t seen the BB reality show, but I know what these shows are because they all started from the USA and Europe on TV, sometimes they are a bit out of line, rather far from reality and I wonder why they still call it a Reality Show? As regards Veena Malik, she is definitely a victim an easy target who grew up in the entertainment industry and that according to her is her job. When these so called glorified actresses dance on a Kotha at Heera Mandi Lahore or, at private parties and even on stage show they are appreciated by the male dominated society because the victim is purely and solely entertaining those who are present there. Whereas, in case of a RS she is entertaining only the guy with him she is supposed to flirt or act and the rest of the billions are watching her on TV and getting frustrated. So, why is there such a double standard? I am not saying what she did is right or wrong and whether I will allow my own to do that.

    In our society, the cultural differences are such that the male can go to a Kotha or a Bawdy House and have fun whereas, their own women are confined with in the walls of the house. And this is not new, historically all these Kings, Rulers, Nawabs, Raja and Maharaja’s have done that and ruined their empires. There is someone I know, he sits and watch TV in his living room but, he asks his wife to go to the bedroom as the TV programmes are not suitable for the females !

    Veena Malik claims that she is from the entertainment industry and generally someone who belongs to that industry is more like a “dumb blonde”, meaning they may be beautiful, attractive, sexy and what not but, their upper chambers are empty. Whereas, Veena Malik surprised me by the way she talked in both languages, she seems to be educated and was very articulate and provided enough reasoning with logic and proof to that Mullah who was very verbose and uncouth. Prior to seeing this debate (I have never seen her talking, speaking b4 this) my impression about her was the same as anyone would have about a dumb kuri from entertainment industry, especially when she married to an idiot called, Asaf.

  70. #70 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 25, 2011 - 10:56 PM

    I was waiting for the PK-NZ match to start but, its a rain delay. What a shame that yesterday when they were practicing it was bright sunshine and today its cloudy and drizzling. But, play is likely to commence in about 20 minutes, hopefully!

    Wahab Riaz, Gul and Ahmad Shahzad are in and, Akhtar, Asad Shafiq and Abdur Rahman are out. Thank God, they have dropped Akhtar he is such a useless guy now in this format.

    I think Abdur Rahman should have been retained and Sohail Tanvir should have been out, because the NZ players are vulnerable to spin and Abdur Rahman would have been better option than Sohail Tanvir who was also thrashed in the previous ODI besides, he did nothing in batting.

    What happened to Saeed Ajmal? Am I missing some news or what? Is he injured, not well or has he been dropped?

  71. #71 by khansahab on January 25, 2011 - 10:56 PM

    Munir sahab

    I enjoyed reading your comment about Veena and you have provided a good account of what the general public perception has been of Veena since Big Boss.

    I understand what Javed A Khan is saying and he seems to back Veena for taking a stand against the Pakistan media, the Mullahs, politicians and general public. To that end I cannot disagree with Javed A Khan.

    Veena’s motivation for going to India was identical to why any Pakistani entertainment industry representative would go there- to get noticed and to make money. She has succeeded in getting noticed and she has hit all the right areas- on Big Boss we saw her as diplomatic, bold (outspoken), bold (liberal dressing sense). So it was a good sales pitch. It is no surprise that her only “friend” at Big Boss was Ashmit Patel, who is a Bollywood actor.

    Mission accomplished and she will now get offers. I am not concerned so much about how she dressed in Big Boss because Pakistani girls do dress like that albeit not in the public eye. But, she is not a very educated person and hails from an uncouth background and it showed. This is what I was disappointed with. She could have been more mature and responsible in front of the Indian audience.

    I have seen that interview of Veena Malik which Javed A Khan is recommending and it is noticable that her speaking skills have improved. She is in an industry where good oral skills are considered a necessity so I cannot accredit her too much for that.

  72. #72 by khansahab on January 25, 2011 - 11:06 PM

    Newguy

    You should not hold back on your sentiments because on this blog we cater for all sentiments. You might consider this to be a “Pakistani” blog but at least two Pakistani visitors of this blog (hailing from Punjab) have accused the management of being “anti Pakistan” so maybe you are incorrect in your assumption.

    You are generous calling her “pretty” because, if you see the middle/upper class girls of Lahore, not only are they ten times better looking than Veena, they also have more refinement and come from better families (most of them). In my mind there is no doubt Punjabi girls are the best looking at least in Asia- although beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

    You should just watch normal TV channels from Pakistan and you will see so many attractive girls that you will lose count and Veena will look like a simpleton.

  73. #73 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 25, 2011 - 11:09 PM

    Its a 48 over match now and Ahmad Shahzad has already hit a six and two fours and Pakistan are 18/0 in 2 overs

  74. #74 by khansahab on January 25, 2011 - 11:18 PM

    Veena Malik not keen on B or C grade films

    Tuesday, January 25, 2011, 17:19 [IST]

    Pakistani starlet Veena Malik created uproar in Indian as well as Pakistan when she participated in the Indian reality show ‘Bigg Boss 4’. The actress was threatened by Pakistani fundamentalists for bringing bad name to their country by her acts in the show.

    However, all these rumours only attracted limelight towards her and nothing affected her popularity. The actress is now keeping high hopes and does not want to be a part of any typical B or C class Bollywood films. It may be due to her being close with Bollywood actor Ashmit Patel that Veena Malik has learnt the art of the business.

  75. #75 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 25, 2011 - 11:18 PM

    Mohammad Hafeez seems to be clueless to Southee bowling either he is beaten or defending and out of 25 runs he scored only 2 runs and he is ruining the run rate because in these conditions if it rains again which is very likely then D/L method will apply so as long as you score fast and don’t lose wickets you are at an advantage. But, Hafeez seems very nervous and edgy whereas Shahzad is hitting cleanly and firmly.

  76. #76 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 25, 2011 - 11:21 PM

    Its a shame the play stopped again due to rain and the playing conditions are not suitable according to the umpires. Shahzad has scored 25 in 16 balls and seems to have no problem at all………….. I dunno when the match will start again!

  77. #77 by newguy on January 26, 2011 - 12:36 AM

    Khansahab / Javed Khan,

    OK, I won’t hold back. I do get why the mullas and general Pakistani pubic will raise a hue and cry is about an actress participating in a reality show and may be “exposing” a bit. It’s all about control and insecurity. They can’t see a woman getting out of line with what they preach and do what she pleases. Veena Malik threatens them in that she shows confidence to do what she thinks is good for her. I don’t care whether she is from a poor background or so called low class household. Being American (Indian-American of course) myself I don’t believe in class system and clearly abhors it the way it is in India, Pakistan, Middle Eastern countries, and even in U.K and some parts of Europe.

    This so called exposure is nothing actually if you see how people expose in shows like Dancing with the stars and even on winter Olympics games the ballerinas on Ice expose quite a bit. That is if you consider all that as exposure. I don’t personally see it that way, it’s all about how the performer carries herself in that attire, her confidence and ability to feel comfortable and make others around her comfortable. I saw the video and it appeared to me she is not entirely comfortable in those little bit revealing outfits and was doing it because she had to. She on the other hand could have made it better if she were able to carry it out with more dignity. But you can’t blame her is she do not have received the training or background.

    I don’t know if you know this, but most Bollywood actresses come out fully prepared as a finished package, they don’t come out as newbies, they take classes in public speaking, fashion, make up, dancing, interacting with people, all kinds of stuff, so that when they really go out and try to get into the business they have to show confidence and not feel out of place. May be Veena did some of this, may be she needed more, I don’t know and I don’t care. But whatever she is lacking is all training, nothing to do with class.

    As for me calling her “pretty”, I also said she doesn’t look model like, but a girl next door type good looking girl. Personally I am not attracted to her, I was just making a general statement. Matter of fact I am not attracted to Bollywood celebrity Katrina Kaif either, she is pretty in my view, but just not the type of women to excite me. On the other hand someone who is less pretty than Katrina might interest me, it’s all about what the chemical reactions in our brains, isn’t it?

    There might be many ladies prettier than Veena, but it doesn’t mater, I am not rating, just passing a general comment. I have had exposure to a lot of “pretty” girls in my life and I am very comfortable with women, I don’t look at every woman and try to rate them, and neither do I feel intimidated by good looking women like some men do. This is because I have had my fill and I am comfortable.

    Anyway, coming back, I too support her for taking a stand and doing what she wants to do. It’s all about independence and showing the lose Asif that she is not going to lick her wounds and cry. Instead going to take charge of her life and make some money and stand on her feet. Even if it mean she needs to be “friendly” with some Bollywood actors, so be it.

  78. #78 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 26, 2011 - 3:32 AM

    Misbah is a defensive captain: Rashid Latif

    (7 hours ago) Today

    We missed the opportunity in Wellington Test due to Misbah’s defensive approach: Rashid Latif.—Reuters

    KARACHI: Former skipper Rashid Latif said on Tuesday that Misbah-ul-Haq is quite a defensive captain and will not be the ideal candidate to lead Pakistan in the forthcoming World Cup, commencing from Feb 19.

    “I thought Pakistan could have won the second Test against New Zealand in Wellington but we missed the opportunity due to Misbah’s defensive approach,” said Rashid in an interview here.

    “We were set some 275 in 90 overs on the last day day but Misbah didn’t go for the target which was a cautious and defensive mindset from the skipper. Also, against South Africa in the second Test in UAE, we never went for the chase despite a sporting declaration from Smith,” recalled the former wicket-keeper.

    “Personally, I have nothing against Misbah but our team needs an aggressive captain like Shahid Afridi to do well in the mega event,” he said.Rashid admitted that there were some shortcomings in Afridi’s game and he needed to lead from the front with his own performance.

    “Afridi will have to show more responsibility, commitment and temperament in the coming matches to silence his critics,” he observed. “But I still believe that Afridi is a fighter and is not one to give up till the very end which can be a plus for Pakistan.”

    Commenting on the team’s disastrous showing in the first One-day International, Rashid said that swinging ball had always troubled the Pakistani batsmen and batting first was a big mistake “which cost us the match.”—APP

  79. #79 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 26, 2011 - 3:37 AM

    newguy

    There you go, it is better to vent out your feelings rather than bottling them up. Bravo! Good to see your views. As regards Katrina Kaif not exciting you, I think that is a very close and personal kinda feeling, one can excite another person when they are ought to do something very exciting. 😀 I find her as attractive but, I am not sure she is good enough to attract me intellectually. If she is like another dumb blonde then it is bye-bye Katrina! 😀

    The rain washed out the second ODI, what a shame when Pakistan were playing some interesting and “exciting” cricket, rain gods interrupted the play. Lets hope the next ODI would be played without any interruption by mother nature. Has anyone seen a TV serial called “Burn Up” ? Its about environment and global warming. I have seen part 1 and 2 and part 3 will be aired sometime next week.

  80. #80 by newguy on January 26, 2011 - 3:58 AM

    JAK,

    More truer words were never spoken 🙂 I am talking about up close and personal with Katrina 🙂

  81. #81 by newguy on January 26, 2011 - 4:50 AM

    Hi Guys,

    I was watching some more of this Veena Malik thing just because there is no cricket going on and I am killing some time, and I ended up reading some of the comments under the video posted by people. I just can’t stop laughing at these comments, some of them are talking as if the whole izzat of Pakistan is lost because this women acted in a romantic scene with an Indian actor. Don’t these guys understand that this is all a show and they are paid actors, besides what does it have to do with Pakistan’s izzat just because this women who happens to be a citizen of Pakistan decides to go to India or anywhere else and get involved in a relationship with anyone she pleases. Time to grow up for some of these folks and do something on their own and forget about whoever is doing whatever. Anyhow, she should not keep high hopes on getting any A grade Bollywood movies, now that have seen more videos she is a fair bit past her sell by date as far as prime time movies are considered 🙂 Good masala story for some time pass though 🙂

  82. #82 by Mohammed Munir on January 26, 2011 - 10:04 AM

    Pakistan today started in a very positive mood and they were 31 in 4.2 overs without any loss and were surely looking good for much more, but unfortunately rain played the villain.

    It seems to me that Pakistan Cricket and Shahid Afridi are both passing through some bad luck periods as nothing seems to be working in their favours.

    Hoping for the best for both of them. 😦

  83. #83 by Mohammed Munir on January 26, 2011 - 10:06 AM

    Javed Khan …

    On your finding Katrina ‘visually’ attractive and being ‘not sure’ about her intellectuality, well this is what I have to say … “Kabhi Kissi Ko Mukammal Jahan Naheen Milta”. 😉

    Beauty and Brains doesn’t necessarily always go hand-in-hand and that’s why one should select them separately. 😆

  84. #84 by Mohammed Munir on January 26, 2011 - 10:37 AM

    Javed Khan, Khansahab, and Others …

    Discussion on Veena Malik is and an endless and probably not very important issue for all of us, but since we have started it then let’s argue over it a bit in more details (just for the heck of it, if nothing else). 😉

    I think it’s not only about Veena Malik anymore and we are now discussing so many other directly and indirectly related topics i.e. Salman Taseer case, Qaudri’s reaction, plus there are two or three other issues like male dominance in Muslim and Asian societies, beauty and class of Veena Malik and her talking/ debating skills, India and Pakistan’s neighbourly relations, values and cultures of both countries, so on and so forth. We can not mix all these issues in one discussion (that too a written discussion).

    Anyways, to ‘try’ to keep it short and specific, I have addressed a few of main issues separately:

    On Veena Malik …

    First of all, I don’t have anything against Veena Malik and it doesn’t bother me one bit if she ‘kisses’, ‘cuddles’ and do whatever she likes with Asif, Ashmit or whoever she likes.

    Veena has not done anything beyond normal (dresses, vulgarity, etc.) or which is never done before by any Pakistani actress. However, the case becomes more important because she went to India and did it in front of Indian audiences. Even for most Pakistani actresses pushing their liberty limits, exposing their skins, or cuddling around with their male partners is nothing unimaginable in Lollywood (Pakistani cinema industry), but doing all these things in neighbouring country is not acceptable to most of Pakistanis, spcially those living back home. I am using the words, ‘back-home’ because we are lucky to be living out of Pakistan for long enough to have more liberal views today, which would not have been the exact case had we all lived in our own countries.

    I would like to reverse the Veena Malik scenario and ask you guys, how would a normal Indian man (not Newguy, nor other learned Indian bloggers) but a normal Indian man on the streets of India will react if it was Katrina Kaif, Priyanka Chopra or Kareena Kapoor doing such scenes with some Pakistani, Muslim male in Pakistan ??

    You may reply to this by any which way, but trust me the normal Indian Hindu (mainly the RSS or BJP type) persons (males or females) would definitely react in almost the same way as any Pakistani is reacting now.

    Now if this can happen in India, which is surely much more liberal, educated and broadminded society, then no one can blame Pakistani public for their reactions toward Veena Malik.

    On Salman Taseer …

    Simply put, the guy was a maverick.

    Beside some of the characteristics of Salman Taseer which Javed Khan has mentioned in his above comments and which we all ‘reportedly’ know, even on a personal front, the guy was …. well, different, to say the least.

    Salman had an English mother (I am not sure if she became Muslim or not), had an Indian Sikh wife, had at least one son from that Sikh wife who lives in, may be, UK. BTW, Salman Taseer had more then one marriages.

    Leaving his personal life alone, and coming back to his working career, at the time of his death, Salman was Governor of Punjab province and beside his much stronger political standings with PPP, he was an active-duty government service employee.

    Now if such a person openly says that Pakistan’s law is a “Kala Qanoon”, then what can anyone do about it ?

    I don’t know if that Christian lady, Aasia Bibi, was really guilty or not, but for a controversial figure like Salman, the correct way would have been to ‘quietly’ go to the President Asif Ali Zardari and seek pardon for her, which would not have made this into a big drama. But rather then doing that, Salman Sahab chose to make it a contentious issue and openly gave disgraceful comments about the country’s Islamic law (the same country where he was part of government) and created an unnecessary fuss about the whole thing.

    The result … he had to pay by his life for his heroic mistakes and politically-oriented statements.

    On ‘I-don’t-know-his-full-name’ Qadri …

    In Pakistan, the criminals who have brutally killed the two Sialkot Brothers, are roaming around freely and could not be brought to justice till today, this in spite of video evidences and hundreds of witnesses. Similarly, many ordinary peoples who have committed so many heinous crimes are escaping the punishments and no one can even touch them. All one need in Pakistan, is a bit of contacts and some money and any law is under your mercy, and we all know this so well.

    May be it is a news and ‘hard-to-believe’ fact for to us as we are lucky to live is just societies, but back in Asia and specially in Pakistan, law is anybody’s business.

    So in auch environment, do you seriously think that anyone can even lay a hand on a political figure and Governor of a Punjab ?

    Therefore, when that person, Qadri, saw that no one is doing anything about it and worst no one will be able to do anything, he got frustrated and he did what he did.

    I will never even try to justify his actions, because I believe that killing anyone is not acceptable, but don’t you think that Salman Taseer, with his comments, dared him to do that ?

    As they say, “It takes two to tango”, I think Salman Taseer was also, to some extent, responsible for his own fate.

    Being a Pakistani, he should have seen it coming and tried to downplay the whole thing rather then playing with peoples’ sentiments. This is exactly, what I said about Veena Malik that rather then keeping a low-profile or may be even apologizing to public (which can be a good diplomatic move for her) about the issue she is making it a publicity-stunt, and she may end up with the same fate as Salman Taseer.

    But we don’t really know, may be Veena is much more clever and she is deliberately playing these cards and excite peoples, so she can have an excuse to go and settle in India and work in Bollywood.

    Coming back to Qadri, he may be an uneducated, illiterate, underprivileged, abused, and never-loved person, who got pissed with Salman’s comments which were derogatory to Qadri’s religion and so he reacted in this extreme way. Alternatively, he may even be a simple pawn used by some other sources and be a part of the wider conspiracy or political motives.

    On Other Issues ….

    A few years back Indian actress, Shilpa Shetty, played a similar role like Veena Malik, on UK based program Big Brother, where an English Caucasian female passed some racist comments on Shilpa, and believe you me the Indian public reacted much more then the Pakistani peoples are doing now.

    Can anyone remember the big controversy, when an American actor, Richard Gere (ex-husband of top-model Cindy Crawford) during his visit to India, kissed an Indian actress (I think she was also Shilpa) on stage. Man, oh man, it was like all-hell-went-loose and not only the poor guy apologized publicly but the Hindu organizations called for his head.

    If this was the reaction of so-called liberal and educated Indian masses, then what else can you expect from Pakistani public ❓

    There are national sensitivities and in case of Veena peoples are reacting much more due to this being in India and with a Hindu actor.

    On the other hand, I think Veena Malik looks fine and she have class and skills of talking and convincing others, after all, being in movie world, this is part of her job, isn’t it ❓ 😀

    I agree, a simple religious scholar (Mullah) doesn’t stand a chance in front of this sexy, beautiful, talkative, and dramay-baaz dame, called Veena Malik.

    Another point I would like to mention is that there is something called, Destiny (Qadr) and when anyone’s time is up, he dies. Whether Qadri or anyone killed that person is not important. We can not say that Allah didn’t want him to die yet, but this guy Qadri had killed him before time. No this is not how it is. The thing is that if Allah wanted to save Salman Taseer (or if Salman Taseer has some more life left) then he would have survived somehow. To me, Salman’s time was up, and if Qadri would not have killed him, may be he met with a fatal accident, or could have died of heart-attack, or anything else.

    Because we all know very well that, Maarnay Walay Sey Bachaanay Wala Bohat Bara Hai………. That is if someone has some time left.

    India and Pakistan are two separate countries which may have many similarities, but also have much more differences. First the foremost the population mix, the religions, the educational levels, cultures and customs, economic standards, social-fiber, commercial approaches, liberal values, etc. etc.

    So what may be acceptable in India, doesn’t mean that it necessarily will be tolerable in Pakistan also.

  85. #85 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 26, 2011 - 3:32 PM

    that’s why one should select them separately. 😆 Munir

    Accha tou Munir how many have you selected? 🙂

  86. #86 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 26, 2011 - 4:15 PM

    Munir

    I will reply to this comment of yours later in more detail ‘coz I got to go now. But, I would like to reply to the last paragraph of your comment on ‘Destiny” now.

    A man can change his destiny by working hard, but a man is not allowed to meddle in His “Mashiyat-e-Khuda vandi” meaning, in God’s Affairs. All life is Allah’s creation and He did not allow us (humans) to end it. That is why killing someone is a very big crime, the punishment is like an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth and ‘life for a life’ it is like this because people don’t take His role in their hands and call it a destiny.

    This is a very common phenomenon among the subcontinent people to say this is how he was destined to be killed because nothing moves without the order of Allah. If Quadri or any lunatic kills someone because, he thinks that God is telling him to do so or, this is the right way to stop evil (that is what he may think) he picks up a weapon and kills him, is WRONG. It is not destiny, kismet, qadr or fate. We are all lacking for words to describe this act and find it easy to say it is destiny. Because, one needs a lot of positive intellect to understand what is destiny is – that is the way Allah has ordered us – and we are taking guidance from the Shaitan and convincing our own mind and that of others by calling it a destiny.

    Allah has created humans and called him as “Ashraf-ul-maqlooqat” not just maqlooq but in the plural form muqlooqat which means He has placed humans above ALL His creations including the Farishtay (Angels) and Jinn by giving him intellect, by telling him that he has the ability to distinguish between right and wrong whereas, others obey Allah without questioning Him. Only Shaitaan disobeyed and Allah is giving him a chance to try and challenge to change Man and this is where the intellect comes in and Man has to prove his worthiness that Allah has blessed him with.

    In surah Fateha, when we say” Iyyaka na budu wa iyyaka nasta een.
    Allah says: This is between Me and My servant, and My servant shall have what he has asked for.

    What has the servant asked for?

    Allah says, when my servant says: Ihdina s-sirata l- mustaqim, siratal ladhina an amta alayhim ghayril-maghdubi alayhim wa la d-dallin.

    A good human being is not asking for money, jewels, wealth or the worldly pleasures but, he is asking Me to provide guidance to him to stay on the right path. Hence Allah says, “My servant shall have what he has asked for.” Because, Allah also knows that a good human being who believes in Him shall NOT ask for worldly pleasures but, he will ask Him to guide him towards the right path, the path that Allah has chosen for him.

    Therefore, Munir we ought to change our traditional human created thinking about destiny and simply believe in it that even this is our destiny i.e., being killed by a lunatic who is being guided by The Shaitan and because of our limited intellect to grasp the message of Allah which He has provided us through His Prophet and through His Book, should not be using this word like an ignorant. Allama Iqbal said, which is so true in our case:

    Tajahul, Taghaful, Tashull kiya
    Hua Kaam Mushkil Tawakul kiya

    it means, we deliberately leave the work undone, then we tried to ignore it, it became big and then we tried to be lazy in doing it, it became even bigger and difficult and finally when it became a really big unsolvable problem, we leave it for Allah to solve it for us ……. Allah Tawakul kiya…

    This is not the way Allah wanted humans to be, He provided us “Aqal-e-Saleem” to use it and if we use it properly then there will more peace, love, compassion in this world and not hatred, jealousies, killings and brutal murders in the name of religion. This is wrong my friend this is absolutely wrong and against the teachings of Islam and Quran.

  87. #87 by newguy on January 26, 2011 - 6:34 PM

    Munir Sahab,

    I will reply later after reading your lengthy post, but I like your overall message and tone, I will reply without too much thinking at all on one question. I don’t need to think too much on this because the answer is obvious.

    You asked:

    “How India will react if it was Katrina Kaif, Priyanka Chopra or Kareena Kapoor doing such scenes with some Pakistani, Muslim male in Pakistan ??

    You may reply to this by any which way, but trust me the normal Indian Hindu (mainly the RSS or BJP type) persons (males or females) would definitely react in almost the same way as any Pakistani is reacting now.”

    Absolutely true. There will be effigies burned and there will be a huge uproar. In fact you pointed out Richard Gere socially kissing Shilpa Sheety on the cheeks on stage for a fund raiser program and he almost got expelled from the country. In many ways the masses in both India and Pakistan are joined at the hip emotionally.

    However, there are some other things that separate them, which I will point out later in detail …

  88. #88 by khansahab on January 26, 2011 - 7:02 PM

    Pakistan erred in dropping Yousuf, says Latif

    KARACHI: Former Pakistan cricket captain Rashid Latif feels selectors have made a mistake by leaving out experienced batsman Mohammad Yousuf from the 15-man squad for the World Cup starting February 19.

    “The squad is balanced, but I feel selectors have made a mistake by leaving out Mohammad Yousuf. I would have chosen Yousuf ahead of Sohail Tanvir,” Latif was quoted as saying.

    Latif, who will be seen as the Afghanistan coach in the World Cup starting February 19, also feels that the delay in naming the captain will create a disharmony in the team.

    The Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) doesn’t want Shahid Afridi to lead the team. Afridi has fallen out with his teammates and the board is waiting to see the results of the New Zealand series. I still feel that Afridi is the best man to lead Pakistan in the World Cup. But if the board wants Misbah ul Haq as the skipper, then they should have appointed him earlier. It reflects the sorry state of affairs in Pakistan cricket,” latif said.

  89. #89 by khansahab on January 26, 2011 - 7:04 PM

    Javed A Khan

    Rashid Latif’s support for Afridi and opposition to Misbah is indicative of why an educated and honest cricketer like him does not obtain a senior post in the PCB.

    You can imagine he will upset a lot of people by publicly criticising Misbah, a player who has been in his best form for 2 years.

  90. #90 by khansahab on January 26, 2011 - 8:11 PM

    Newguy

    I am pleased you have been frank in your comments.

    Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and I was not intending to criticise your judgement of beauty. It is perfectly acceptable to me if you consider Veena Malik attractive and to hold otherwise would make me a bigoted person. Having said that I note your point that you are not “attracted” to her.

    You remark that Veena Malik’s demeanour is a result of a lack of training, and not because of her class. I am not from the aristrocacy and it is not my province to degrade one’s class. To identify someone’s uncouthness does not make me a judgmental person necessarily, nor does it associate an exalted class with me. Politicians, sportsmen, showbiz personalities etc are public property and the public is entitled to make observations about them. Having observed Veena Malik’s attitude on Big Boss and then observing her behaviour with the Moulvi on that TV programme, I have judged her to be uncouth. When someone makes a point they should consider not just what they are saying, but also how they are saying it. Whereas I am content with the message she portrays, I am not impressed by the disrespect with which she addresses the Moulvi. She is loud, insulting, disrespectful to an individiual who does not retaliate in the same manner. I believe it is reasonable to state that a girl hailing from a more sophisticated background would not have lashed at the Moulvi in such fashion, who, to his credit, enunciates a viewpoint which is endorsed by most of his countrymen (the merit of that viewpoint notwithstanding).

    You mention that Bollywood actresses are trained to conduct themselves in a certain way and their personality is not a function of class but of “training”. I will disagree with this notion. Class is a concept that means many things to many people. When judging what “class” stands for, a person may take into account factors such as, education, family history, family reputation, mannerism, thoughtfulness, ability to think deeply and analytically about issues etc. If you consider the backgrounds of the top Bollywood actresses today- Katrina Kaif (educated in UK and USA), Kareena Kapoor (educated at various institutions of repute), Aishwarya Rai (reputable family and decent education) you will note the obvious discrepancy. Veena and other Pakistani actresses can be comparable to Rakhi Sawant and Mallika Sherawat who are also Bollywood actresses. These actresses are sometimes called, “rickshay waalon ki actresses” and their movies are also popular with the labour class. Rakhi Sawant does not hail from an educated background. She is bold, vociferous, famous for doing things mainstream actresses would not.

    I am pleased to know you have had your “fill” and are comfortable. I cannot rate or react to your assertion that you don’t look at every woman to rate her or that you would not rate a female just on the basis of her physical beauty. I am tolerant of that viewpoint but cannot recommend it over an alternative. I can surmise that as a result of your comfort you lead a less frustrating and stressful life, and for that I wish you well and am pleased for you. I do not know whether these revelations are subtle directions towards the younger, less experienced and more frustrated members of this blog- but being in doubt I cannot comment further on this topic. Age makes us wiser.

    My elucidation of the physical beauty present in Lahore, or the recommendation to you to observe this beauty, was by reason of a well founded rationale. I know many Indians and some of them are good friends of mine whom I socialise with on a weekly or monthly basis. They are almost all unanimous in acknowledging the “superior looks” of “Pakistanis”. They watch TV programmes and meet Pakistani people and whereas there are obvious similarities between the two cultures, there are differences as well. However, in the majority of cases they do find that Pakistani people are lighter in complexion, taller, have more attractive facial features etc. We all know that Asian people have this inbuilt tendency to associate good looks with lighter complexions, sharper facial features etc.

    I have to accept it was my mistake to apply that norm to you as well, thinking that having an Indian background, you were perhaps not aware that Punjabi girls in Pakistan are considered attractive. I find with many Indians that they know much less about Pakistan than vice versa. I associated that stereotype with you and for that you have my apology.

  91. #91 by khansahab on January 26, 2011 - 9:06 PM

    Munir sahab

    You say you do not support the taking of Salman Taseer’s life and you claim that God took his life.

    But, what do you mean that Salman Taseer’s comment “dared him (Qadri) to do that”?

    I cannot get my head round this- are you trying to say that Qadri’s anger is justified or his actions are justified? Surely you cannot have any sympathy with him? It is precisely because of people like Qadri that there is lawlessness in Pakistan. Why are we blaming our politicians and leaders for being criminals and evil personified, when normal people like Qadri can kill people?

    I do not think Sharia preaches killing in any context other than in war when the Jihadist has been provoked by a warmonger. So, in my mind that makes Qadri a normal murderer. In fact, he is worse than the normal murderer, he is ecstatic at his actions.

    Taseer’s assassination has upset the liberal and moderate classes of Pakistan.

    I know very little of Taseer but what I do know is that, a true leader is someone who is not afraid to stick to his viewpoint even if the masses despise him for it. History is rich with people who were unpopular to begin with but changed opinions, started movements, changed ideological landscapes, created religions, countries, cults. The perception of what is right or wrong, good or bad changes with time.

  92. #92 by khansahab on January 26, 2011 - 10:19 PM

    Amir plays club game, ICC seeks explanation

    The ICC has written to the PCB asking for details into the appearance of Mohammad Amir in a friendly club match. Amir is currently provisionally suspended from all levels of cricket facing charges of spot-fixing placed by the governing body in the aftermath of the Lord’s Test during Pakistan’s tour of England in 2010.

    Amir took part in a game in Rawalpindi on Monday, though the contest is not believed to carry any official status. But under the ICC’s anti-corruption code of conduct, Amir – and Salman Butt and Mohammad Asif, the other two players suspended – are not allowed to play even at club level if those clubs are affiliated to the regional cricket body – in this case the Rawalpindi Cricket Association – which is in turn, affiliated to the PCB. It is believed that the club Amir turned up for is not affiliated to the Rawalpindi association.

    A spokesman for the Pakistan board said they were also investigating the matter. “Yes, we have come to the knowledge of Amir playing a match in Rawalpindi and we are investigating the matter,” Nadeem Sarwar told AFP.

    At the moment it is believed that the ICC has only asked for details of the appearance, after which it will decide whether or not it constitutes a breach of the code. Local officials in Rawalpindi say Amir apologised after appearing in the game, saying he wasn’t sure whether or not he could play in a game at that level.

    Amir, along with Butt and Asif, was suspended by the ICC after the spot-fixing row centering around pre-planned no-balls broke during the Lord’s Test between England and Pakistan.

    An ICC anti-corruption tribunal heard the case relating to the three suspended players in Doha, Qatar, last month and is due to announce its verdict on February 5.

  93. #93 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 27, 2011 - 1:10 AM

    Munir

    On that Taseer and Quadri issue, you wrote: “Quadri got pissed with Salman’s comments which were derogatory to Qadri’s religion and so he reacted in this extreme way.”

    This is really absurd that Quadri’s religion is different from yours, khansahab’s, mine and billions of other Muslims. If he considers himself a Muslim then he has ashamed me to call him a Muslim. Because, it is not in the Book of Allah, neither the Prophet nor his companions took this path of killing someone like that.

    Secondly, I would like to know where in the Holy Book it is written to kill someone if he is blasphemous? Even those who bad-mouthed the Prophet he used to pardon them and pray for them to Allah to show them the right path.

    Have you not heard this story about an old woman who used to throw garbage on the Prophet everyday when he used to walk from in front of her house? She used to and, one day she didn’t, so the Prophet asked people what happened to that woman who used to throw garbage on him everyday? They said, she is sick, so he went to her to find out if she is OK? And, he prayed for her well-being. The woman was so impressed by his action that she started crying and said, you are such a nice person that everyday I threw garbage on you and you did not say a word and one day I didn’t and you came to inquire about my health and you pray for my well-being.

    So, Quadri and his likes should study the teachings of the Prophet, read the Quran not just to ruttofy it but, understand its real meanings and practice it in its totality. The Book is about peace and love and understanding human relationship and not about punishment and killings as the Mullahs have interpreted it.

    When Salman Taseer reportedly said, it is a “Kala Qanoon” I am sure he did not mention Sharia as the Kala Qanoon but, the way the Pakistan’s constitution has been amended by Zia ul Haq under Mullah pressure and to get public support, he was referring to that. Also, it was Nawaz Sharif who made amendments to the constitution to acquire total power under his control, besides who says Pakistan’s constitution is Islamic? By calling Pakistan as The Islamic Republic of Pakistan it is not a truly and wholly Islamic country.

    The extremists and fundamentalists in Pakistan who are just a handful in comparison to the total population of Pakistan, they abuse the name of religion and play with the sentiments of the uneducated people and provoke them by saying, “Islam is in danger” and people like Salman Taseer, Zardari, Nawaz etc., are the evils and they need to be punished – Yes they need to be punished but do not take the law in your own hands, don’t kill people in the name of religion.

    If that Quadri guy thinks Salman Taseer’s words were derogatory to Islam, I feel that Quadri’s actions are derogatory to the teachings of Islam. When people ask me questions, I am unable to answer them and limit myself by saying, this is not what Islam teaches us, these are individuals who have gone mad and took this decision on their own and trying to justify that it is a religious duty. NO, it is not like that it is, just like any stupid brainless person in the US goes crazy and starts shooting randomly at innocent children in a school.

  94. #94 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 27, 2011 - 3:39 AM

    KYA PIDDI, AUR KYA PIDDI KA SHORBA? This is a very common expression in Urdu which means, someone who is so young, inexperienced, insignificant yet talking like a legend, it also means Chota Moonh Aur Baree Baat. Here is what Piddi Aamir has talked about Afridi:

    Afridi’s failure in NZ will strengthen Misbah’s case: Aamir

    (7 hours ago) Today
    By Our Sports Reporter

    If Afridi fails to handle pressure like a true leader against the Kiwis, Misbah will become a strong candidate for the World Cup captaincy: Aamir Sohail.—AFP

    LA’HORE: Former Pakistan captain Aamir Sohail on Wednesday said that Test skipper Misbah-ul-Haq will emerge as a strong candidate for captaincy in the forthcoming World Cup in case Shahid Afridi fails to lead the team to victory against New Zealand in the on-going six-match ODI series.

    Talking to Dawn, Aamir said Afridi needed to shape up real fast as a leader and performer since Misbah was breathing down his neck with some solid performances in the recent Test series.

    “Unfortunately, Afridi failed to perform like a frontline leader during the year 2010. Though he batted and bowled with some responsibility at the last year’s World Twenty20 and Asia Cup, he could not maintain it in many other contests, raising doubts over his ability to lead the team astutely.”

    “If you notice carefully Afridi always seeks to start bowling [in a match] when there is no pressure. As a leader he should bowl when field restrictions are on,” Aamir, a former left-handed opening batsman, added.

    “Winning and losing does not matter much; the most important thing is the body language of every player, particularly that of a captain. As skipper he [Afridi] even defamed the country by biting the ball during an ODI against Australia [in 2010],” he recalled.

    “Afridi’s refusal to lead the side against Australia in the second Test following defeat in the opening Test — on last year’s tour to England — detracted Pakistan cricket. The player’s abrupt move forced the Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) to pick Salman Butt as captain during the series,” Aamir added.

    Aamir noted Afridi had the opportunity in the ongoing ODI series in New Zealand to prove his talent, adding he should take it as a challenge.

    “If Afridi fails to handle pressure like a true leader against the Kiwis, Misbah will become a strong candidate for the World Cup captaincy,” he said.

    “In fact, it will be a gamble for the PCB to retain Afridi as captain for the World Cup if he loses the ongoing ODI series against New Zealand.”

    In that situation Afridi will not be in a positive frame of mind to do any miracle and will be under tremendous pressure to lead the in the mega event,” he said.

    Aamir reckoned had Afridi not withdrawn from Test captaincy in England, the spot-fixing scandal which erupted later on the tour — involving Salman, Mohammad Asif and Mohammad Aamir — could also have been averted.

    Criticising those experts who back Afridi as skipper for the World Cup, Aamir asked where they were when the team players were hatching conspiracy against Younis Khan’s captaincy.

    On the other hand, he emphasised, Misbah-ul-Haq had proved his mental toughness by successfully leading the national squad in Test matches against South Africa and New Zealand.

    Aamir, also a former chief selector, stressed if the PCB had any apprehensions over groupings within the team after removing Afridi as limited-overs captain, it should take stern action against those players who seek leader of their choice. “All the team members should play for Pakistan, and not for a specific captain,” he urged.

    With Afridi under pressure to perform in New Zealand and Misbah’s name being tipped for the World Cup captaincy, the PCB is likely to take a decision in this regard after the third ODI in Christchurch on Saturday, sources said.

  95. #95 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 27, 2011 - 3:46 AM

    As time passes by and it is becoming more clear that the spot fixing trio have no chance to play cricket and they shall be banned for a long, long period of time and even the disheartening news from the Scotland Yard that Mazhar Majeed and the trio could face criminal charges for defaming the bookies of England could go to jail and the minimum sentence in that case is 10 years. Therefore, now after Salman Butt, Mohammad Aamir has also spoken like Brutus.

    Aamir had this attitude problem since the beginning, especially in one of the matches in T20 WC when Pakistan was playing against South Africa, (which Pakistan won) J. P. Duminy could have been run out had Aamir stayed behind the wickets to collect the throw from Fawad Alam, instead he was standing in the middle of the pitch after completing his bowling follow through, it was then Younus Khan came and yelled at him and was telling him that he should have been standing behind the wicket to collect the ball instead of standing in the middle of the pitch, Aamir took it very personally and reacted very rudely towards Younus and Umar Gul took Aamir away from the scene to calm him down. Reportedly, Aamir told Younus, “people consider me as next Wasim Akram and you are trying to teach me how to play?” It showed that Aamir had attitude problem and the short success that he got so soon gone into his head.

    Aamir says, Afridi defamed Pakistan by biting the ball in Australia. Has Aamir raised Pakistan’s flag on Mount Everest by dancing at the tune of Mazhar Majeed and bowling such a huge NO BALL was genuine? And the money that was found in his room, was all fake? And the text message to Majeed a night before the match asking his permission and reconfirmation: “So, should I do it?” Is all that innocent? I think the ICC should not show any sympathy towards his age, he is matured enough to do things on his own and considers himself as the next Wasim Akram then he should go to his Wasim Bhai and efff himself or make him happy!

  96. #96 by khansahab on January 27, 2011 - 6:36 AM

    Why ‘Boom Boom’ should be captain

    Express Tribune blog

    With the cricket World Cup less than 25 days away, Team Pakistan still finds itself without a leader for the mega event.

    By not announcing Shahid Afridi as captain so close to the international cricket tournament, the PCB has again given us a practical example of how incompetent their management is. Why the allowed this uncertainty to prevail before such an important event is a mystery to me, and one that is so befuddling it makes me want to protest outside their office.

    I don’t agree with people who claim that Afridi doesn’t perform well as captain. Although I do not want to make my love for the flamboyant Afridi public, I will present an ‘in-your-face’ argument to Afridi-bashers, based on stats.

    Debuting as captain against the West Indies in the Champions Trophy in South Africa back in 2009, Afridi has played 16 matches as ODI captain. Under his captaincy, Pakistan has had six victories. Ten of the losses under his captaincy have included thrilling matches against India and Sri Lanka in the Asia Cup, a last over loss against England at Leeds, and a two run loss to South Africa in Dubai. I lament these losses, they still hurt, but these were close matches, and thoroughly enjoyable to watch.

    In the six games that we won under Afridi’s captaincy, he averaged 58 runs with the bat. If you include the other ten games (games that we lost), he averages 33.80. For someone batting at number six or seven, that is a healthy average.

    To add to this, he has picked up 16 wickets during his captaincy. He ended 2010 with 19 wickets, becoming the joint-highest-wicket-taker with Shoaib Akhtar. Did I forget to mention that he top-scored that year with the bat too?

    Afridi is someone who has performed consistently better as ODI captain. His ability to lead the team in these tumultuous times has been commendable; three of our core players have been suspended, our wicket keeper decided to fly to England hours before the team was meant to play a series-decider while the players of his choice are not included in the squad.

    Misbahul Haq (the other alternative) is sensible, I agree. He led us to our first test win after four years and scored 50’s in seven out of eight innings as captain of the test team. But does this qualify him as captain of a team he was not a part of for most of the year?

    Misbah was dropped from the ODI side, and dropped again after making his comeback in the first two games against South Africa in the UAE. Why should he be brought back as captain? Misbah will play a major part in the World Cup as a middle-order batsman, but why must he captain the team?

    Salman Butt has in the past called Afridi a “clueless captain” who “does not lead from the front”. I would like to remind Butt, that he averaged a mere 16 runs against England just a few months ago. He was captain for four test matches and scored 128 runs in 8 innings. Did he lead from the front? You decide.

  97. #97 by khansahab on January 27, 2011 - 6:45 AM

    If Misbah had been captain with the same captaincy record as Afridi, which is explained by the article I have posted, all these commentators Aamer Sohail, Zaheer Abbas, Inzamam, Qadir etc would be supporting Misbah and saying, “most of these ODI losses were nail biting contests etc” and therefore Misbah should remain captain.

    Even before the spot fixing scandal I had suggested that there might be a conspiracy to remove Afridi before the WC 2011. At that time many people must have ridiculed me, but that is exactly what is now happening. I can’t see into the future and I am not Nostradamus to predict events, but I know how Pakistanis think and behave.

  98. #98 by khansahab on January 27, 2011 - 6:54 AM

    Newguy

    I found this article by chance when I was reading the Shahid Afridi article on the Express TRIBUNE blog:

    We are racist, like our parents were


    Obed Suhail

    Growing up I was often told by my parents to stay out of the sun. Like most middle class Pakistanis, they were worried that the complexion of my skin will become dark if I spent too much time outside. My aunts flung concerned glances at me and my cousins during summers, especially when we were returning home after playing cricket, and made taunting comments about our tanned skin. Thus, from a very early age I learned that having dark skin was something to be embarrassed of.

    My classmates were also familiar with this racial demarcation, so making fun of kids with a darker skin tone was quite common. The discrimination against dark-skinned people in Pakistan is as prevalent among adults as it is at the school level. For most front desk, sales and customer relations jobs, preference is given to fair-skinned candidates because many companies believe that employees with a white-complexion can make a better impression on the clients. While looking for a suitable spouse for their sons, parents almost always give extra points to fair-skinned girls. I still remember being flabbergasted when a few of my male cousins rejected scores of girls solely on the basis of the color of their skin.

    Let’s face it. We are racist without even realising it. But, it is not our fault. We’ve been conditioned since childhood to hold the fairer-skin tone in higher regard. Now the million dollar question is how this discrimination came to be so deeply rooted in the culture and social fabric of Pakistan?

    It seems to have been a gradual process that began thousands of years ago when white-skinned foreigners invaded the subcontinent. From the Aryans to Greeks to the more recent Europeans, we came under the rule of a variety of foreign powers, most of whom had a fair-complexion. As a result of this, we began to think of white-skinned people as a superior race. The caste system in India further contributed to this discrimination because the Brahmans, who belong to the highest cast, also have fair complexion.

    However, discrimination on the basis of the caste system has been abolished throughout the subcontinent, and European powers have long since stepped out of both India and Pakistan. Why then, are we still stuck in this old and absurd form of racism? Why are we unable to grow out of this discriminatory mindset and look beyond the color of a person’s skin?

    The answer partly lies in the portrayal of beauty in our media. While many Indian actresses have a darker skin tone, not once have I seen a Pakistani actress who was not white. There are many Pakistani ads, songs and films that advocate the merits of having a fair-complexion. Even corporations are instilling and reinforcing this racism in our minds by promoting beauty products and creams aimed at making the skin fairer.

    Kya goray rang ka zamana kabhi ho ga na purana?

    (Will the age of white-complexion never grow old?)

    Whether or not we will ever completely overcome this racism, I do not know. But, perhaps it will slowly seep out of our minds if the media stops reinforcing it. We, on our part, should also stop idolising the white skin and must not pass on this racist notion to the younger generation.

  99. #99 by newguy on January 27, 2011 - 3:40 PM

    ICC has declared Kolkata ground will not be ready for Ind-Eng match by Feb 27.

    Egg on the face of BCCI and a huge shame to India.

    The baffoon BCCI top dog who said two days back that concerns about ground work is media cooked up worries should step down immediately.

    In a huge shame to Indians BCCI could not get grounds ready when even Bangladesh and Sri Lanka are getting ready, and Indians are supposed to be next in growth after China. Sure in economic terms, but that doesn’t seem to transform into infrastructure work and getting ready for major events.

    Someone needs to be fired for this.

  100. #100 by newguy on January 27, 2011 - 4:03 PM

    Khansahab,

    The article you quoted about sub-continental people being subconsciously racist comes as no surprise to me, in fact, I would have been surprised if it said anything different. Even though you said it is Pakistanis who have this problem, let me tell you that having grown up in India that this is very much an Indian thing too. Surely there must be a few exceptions about a darker skinned actresses in India, but the preference is all for the lighter skinned ladies. Even in South India, especially in Tamil Nadu where people have very dark complexion the heros are dark skinned, but they import their heroines from North, Punjabi girls and others who can’t make it to Bollywood big time finds place in Tamil movies where the chocolate colored here gels with milk colored heroine 🙂

    This is very true when mothers try to find girls for their boys to get married, they want a fair skinned girl. Even when buys go out and play in sun relatives will complain that you will get dark. All throughout their lives we as a race are conditioned to believe that lighter skin in superior.

    I am sure this is even more so in Pakistan because people are lighter skinned in Pakistan than India and hence the desire is even higher. Indians may have had to accept some level of dark skin because of the pool available.

    I was fortunate however to have spent most of my adulthood outside of India, specifically in places where skin color was not looked down up on. Rather the tan skin is appreciated. Moreover in the western world the so called lighter skin colored Indian / Pakistani is still tan because it only a variation in skin tone. So there are various hues and shades, but still all are brown skinned.

    I won’t deny that having grown up in India and conditioned to believe this I did not had it in my mind to desire for light skinned girls. But as said to you earlier after I have had experienced what I have experienced (I won’t go into details of this because too much personal and it will sound like I am bragging), so after I have had that experience I don’t find it anything of a huge deal. In the end human anatomy is same and the shades don’t look that attractive after you have had your fill. It’s always the case, even with good food or luxury cars, or nice house, so on.. I once desired to drive a nice and shiny BMW or Mercedes, but after I have owned one for a period of time, I got tired of it and did not get any fulfillment from it. Then I realized these things can’t make you happy.

    This is the case with women too, you need to find someone who you are attracted to, not just physically but intellectually and emotionally. Physical attraction is necessary otherwise you will never find happiness with that person if you want to live with that person, but also intellectual and emotional attraction is required. But when you are young, and I mean by that in your 20’s and early 30’s you need explore and be adventurous, not get attached emotionally to the first person you find, it’s okay to explore to fulfill physical needs so you get it out of your system and understand it’s no big deal after all and that you are completely satisfied.

    I am not old or anything, but not in my 20’s or 30’s so I it takes up to about my age, late 30’s to early 40’s to realize all this, at least for me, may be some people are lucky and learn this at young age.

    I am not directing this at anyone of this blog, just random thoughts.

    Coming back to topic, this racial prejudice has got to do with white invasions of subcontinent. It is good that some people are now writing about it and starting to make others think about it through those articles.

  101. #101 by khansahab on January 27, 2011 - 9:22 PM

    Shahid Afridi Likely to lead Pakistan

    Shahid Afridi is likely to be retained as the one-day captain for the ICC World Cup 2011 after Chairman of the Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) Ijaz Butt held discussions with the team management in New Zealand and chief operating officer in Lahore.

    According to a well-informed source in the board, all indications show that allrounder Afridi is likely to lead the side during the mega-event staring from February 19 to be held jointly by India, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh.

    The source said that Butt held a half an hour discussion with chief operating officer today after his talks with the team management in New Zealand.

    Butt himself is not in favour of having Afridi as captain and is more inclined towards Misbah-ul-Haq. Even Younis Khan wants Misbah as the skipper. But after getting all the feedbacks and suggestions the PCB chief knows that it would be a risky move to change the ODI captain at this stage and it would be better to continue with Afridi,” the source disclosed.

    The source also added that Butt and some other board officials have lost faith in Afridi over his attitude and repeated violations of the board instructions in recent months.

    “Definitely, Afridi is not the favourite candidate for captaincy but even the team management has told Butt not to change the captain for the World Cup at this stage.”

    He said another factor weighing on the mind of Butt is that some of the senior players in the touring side in New Zealand including Shoaib Akhtar, Abdul Razzaq, Umar Gul are in favour of Afridi and want him to continue as the World Cup captain.

    The PCB Chairman has a difficult decision to make because he has to ensure there are no issues or conflicts within the team just before the World Cup,” the source stated.

    The source also informed that Butt is likely to announce the World Cup captain this week after some more deliberations in New Zealand.

    He even indicated that Butt was facing pressure from the top over the captaincy issue.

    “Most of the major sponsors who have invested lot of money in the tournament in Pakistan have already prepared their campaigns with Shahid Afridi as captain in their commercials. So they are concerned that any late change in the captaincy now would derail their campaigns and cost them millions of rupees in losses,” the source said.

    “These companies are also lobbying within the government to ensure that the Pakistan board does not change Afridi as captain for the World Cup.”

    The PCB has come in for severe criticism from a number of former players for delaying in naming the captain for the mega-event since Pakistan remains the only one of the fourteen competing teams not to have named the captain as yet.—Agencies

  102. #102 by khansahab on January 27, 2011 - 9:24 PM

    Ijaz Butt goes to NZ for what reason? If the above news is true then surely his NZ trip was a waste of time and money?

    Why can’t he monitor the situation from Pakistan? If Butt knew anything about management this situation would not have occurred in the first place.

  103. #103 by Mohammed Munir on January 27, 2011 - 11:44 PM

    Javed Khan, Khansahab, and Newguy …

    I have read your respective comments with interest and shall try to address them below. As of now, ‘I-am-loving’, 😉 this whole discussion thing and though it all started with something less relevant for all of us, but I think we are all enjoying it. BTW, this debate is getting lengthy and multifaceted for me and I am not able to keep track of all related topics and am finding it hard to address them in full details. This is because I am finding myself arguing on several issues at a time and that too with three separate individuals. So in my enthusiasm of carrying forward this discussion, if I miss or overdo some points then you guys are welcome to interrupt me. I always say that when we are discussing by ‘written’ communications, and in a third language which is not ‘mother-tongue’ for any of us, then there are more chances of misinterpretations / misunderstands. 🙂

    To avoid discussing with three persons simultaneously, I shall try to reply all of you guys separately. I think this way I will be able to address it better.

    All said and done, I must confess that this discussion is definitely helping me understand many things better and in the process.

    Newguy …

    I am happy that you have also mentioned about the similarities in Indian and Pakistani populations. I agree with you that although we are ‘joined-at-the-hip’ we both still have many uncommon characteristics among our masses. Toward this, I think the biggest advantage India has is that of education of it’s peoples which unfortunately is not the case in Pakistan. Secular views and tolerance among different religions/ sects are again not only India’s strengths, but these are almost it’s ‘Majboori’ with so many different peoples living in India, which we don’t have in Pakistan.

    Thanks for reminding me about the Richard Gere and Shilpa Shetty storey, yes this was the one I was pointing.

    Khansahab …

    In response to my intensely lengthy above comments, you have raised concerns only about Salman Taseer and that guy Qadri. So here, I will reply to you only on these two points.

    I also understand that ‘justice system’ and ‘legal matters’ are your forte, since you are studying to be a lawyer, so it explains your keen expertise and interest on the topic. However, when we are talking about ‘Law and Justice in Pakistan’, please do not confuse it with the UK, Europe or USA procedures because it is totally different to them. You may say that in Pakistan (or even India) we still have the old British law & rules/ (Taazirat-e-Hind), but this is not what I meant, rather I am pointing toward how rare and scarce commodity ‘justice’ is in this part of the world, and more so in Pakistan.

    I have tried to explain this by giving example of “two Sialkot Brother’, who have been denied justice.

    Coming back to your comments, I did not claim that Allah took (Salman Taseer’s) life. However, what I tried to imply is that if Allah wanted him to survive through this attack, then he would not have died. This is used as a figure of speech, for example if someone have a narrow escape from a dangerous accident, we tend to say that “Allah Nain Iss Ko Bachaa Lia”, it doesn’t mean that Allah has come down on earth to save that person physically (NaoozBillah), but it’s like ‘God saved him’ and in case of Salman Taseer Allah did not save him.

    By “Salman Taseer’s comment “dared him (Qadri) to do that” what I mean is that Salman Taseer (himself being from mix-religious backgrounds and ultra liberal) should not have openly blamed and disgraced Pakistan’s Islamic Law. If he really wanted to help that lady then this could have been done quietly and inaudibly without harshly hurting the feelings of strong religious groups, that too in a Muslim country like Pakistan. So there was no actual need to make it into a publicity-stunt and pass political statements, which I think provoked Qadri and many Muslims badly. Let me try to make my point easier by giving an example here. Suppose if Qazi Hussein or even Maulana Fazlur Rahman or any other religious person would have made a polite appeal to Asif Ali Zardair or general public of Pakistan to pardon that lady, then no one would have killed them and there was a good chance that she may have been pardoned. But when a person who himself is not very religious, to say the least, makes threatening and intimidating speeches then he is challenging the public and had to pay the price.

    I am not trying to justify Qadri’s actions, but in a country where legal system is so fragile that even an ordinary man can not be prosecuted, let alone the Governor of a province, the tendencies of taking law into one’s own hands are much more. You said “It is precisely because of people like Qadri that there is lawlessness in Pakistan” and I would argue that because there is extreme lawlessness in Pakistan, there is an abundance of peoples like Qadri. Further, more and more peoples are turning into ‘such Qadris’ because their trust on the law and justice in not there.

    About your comments that “Taseer’s assassination has upset the liberal and moderate classes of Pakistan” all I can say in reply is that “Taseer’s earlier defamatory comments on ‘law of the land’ had upset the intellectual and educated classes of Pakistan”. Similarly, his religious comments have severely hurt the sentiments of majority of the entire country’s population.

    Khansahab you have said, “I do not think Sharia preaches killing in any context other than in war when the Jihadist has been provoked by a warmonger”.

    I am sorry, but you are wrong. In Shaaria there are several other occasions (beside Jehad) where taking-life (killing) of a person is allowed and required in Islam.

    Shaaira is NOT what you and I THINK.

    It is unfortunate to notice that when we or our kids get sick and although we know that it could be a simple flu and we fully know what to do in a flu-situation, but still we run to best and most expensive doctors and pay hundreds of dollars to know what we already knew. This is because we are not confident of ourselves plus we think that doctors are the best judges for our sicknesses. However, when it comes to our Quran or our Religion, we never like to consult any scholar or go to an educated Aalim, because ‘we start believing’ that we are educated enough and all the information/ translations are available on the internet/ computers, so what is the need for consulting any Islamic scholars on religious/ Quran matters. I wish it was so easy.

    Understanding Quran & Ahadeeth (although are actually difficult) are considered simpler part, because the full Shaaria is more then only ‘Quran & Ahadeeth’. There is ‘Fiqh’ and then there is ‘Ijmah’, which all form part of Shaaria (Please also see my comments to Javed Khan below on this topic).

    In Pakistan, there is a law that any person who is blasphemous to Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) shall face death sentence. Now if this law is right or wrong, or weather you, I or Salman Taseer liked this law, or even if this law is as per the Quran or decided by the Muslim scholars (Ulemaa) is another long debate. I am sure, you being a lawyer, would not like to challenge the authenticity of British law (even if it right or wrong).

    So to sum up my discussion, although I would not justify Qadri’s actions, but taking into account the lawlessness of the country, considering the audacious comments of Salman Taseer, failure of the government to act against Salman (he passed those comments few weeks prior to being killed), pressures from the religious sectors, as well as discounting the possible mental, educational, economical, etc. frustrations and deprivations of Qadri, I can say that although he was the direct culprit responsible for Salman Taseer’s killing, but Qadri was not the only one responsible for it and there were “strong contributing factor” to killing of Salman Taseer.

    Javed Khan …

    Huh … I am already exhausted and I still have to reply to your well-presented and very valid comments. 😉

    I fully agree with your first comments about the ‘Qadr’ or destiny. I have read it with great interest and accept what explanations you have given and the concepts of ‘Mashiyat-e-Khuda Wandi’, ‘Aqal-e-Saleem’, ‘Ashraful-ul-Makhlooqat’ and etc. The Quran Aayats you mentioned are also relevant and help in understanding the overall subject.

    That being said, I would like to add that ‘Qard’ is a very vast and intellectual discussion and at time, to be very frank, I find myself lost on this subject and unable to fully grasp the crux of the matter. Adding to your discussion of ‘Qadr’ or destiny/ fate, I think the next related topic would be ‘Loh-e-Mahfooz’, which though is called ‘Mahfooz’ (protected/ saved), but still we believe that destiny can be changed with one’s actions/ prayers/ charity/ pity.

    There are much wider concepts in Islam which a normal human mind is at times powerless and incapable to understand with full authority. Qadr and other such complex issues seem to be beyond our worldly knowledge. Nevertheless, I can say this with full conviction that true Islam is not only philosophical studies and theoretical intellectualism, but in Islam much more emphasis is laid on actual actions (Aamaal) and practicing good deeds. I pray that Allah gives us guidance and intelligence to come to the right path and also (and more importantly) ACT in accordance with Islam.

    With reference to your second comments regarding Qadri & Salman Taseer, you have again raised some valid arguments and I would like to discuss them in more details. Mind you, here I don’t fully agree with you and for that I give my reasoning as below.

    Qadri’s religion is NOT different from that of any other Muslim, but unfortunately, his teachings, preachings, and logic is totally different from us. Simply put, this is like two different students can have totally different opinions and explanations of the same book. At times, even two persons learning from a same teacher can have completely dissimilar apprached, so in this case we don’t say the book or teacher is wrong, but we say that so-and-so student interpreted it wrongly and failed.

    This is the same with Qadri, there is absolutely not even an iota is mistake in Islam or Quran, but his understanding and reactions were twisted and flawed.

    Your second point, where you have said, “Secondly, I would like to know where in the Holy Book it is written to kill someone if he is blasphemous? Even those who bad-mouthed the Prophet he used to pardon them and pray for them to Allah to show them the right path. this is what I have to reply.

    Do you think that what is only and only in Holy Book (Quran) is Islam ❓

    My answer is NO.

    Quran is surely a guidance and an overall way of life, but in addition to Quran, there are many details of Islam which are provided in ‘Ahadeeth Qudsia’, ‘Other Ahadeeth’, ‘Fiqh’, ‘Ijmah’, ‘Authenticated Fatawa’, and related teachings and explanations of authorized Islamic Scholars. (Please note that I am putting special emphasis on ‘authenticated’ and ‘authorized’, so it doesn’t mean any or every Mullah can pass a Fatwa).
    Quran does not clearly explain in practical and nitty-gritty details about each and everything relating to Islam. For example Quran doesn’t mention why we pray 2 Rakat Fard in morning prayer, 3 Rakat in Maghrib prayer and 4 Rakat in Zohr, Asar and Asha prayes. It also doesn’t tell or order us that we should pray so many Rakat and not so many. So number of Rakats even in one of the most important and basic pillar of Islam that is Namaz are not mentioned in Quran. Now the point here is that, there are things in Islam which we have to do or not do, which are not necessarily explained exactly the same way in Quran. (I don’t know if I am able to right explain myself, but what I want to say is that in Islam Quran is the major part like basic DNA, but then there are other supporting rules, which though are surely not as authenticated and complete as Quran itself (which is direct word of Allah), but these are providing supporting explanations and can not be ignored by any Muslim.

    So coming back to you question, no one can show you in Quran if a blasphemous person should be killed or not. But if this has been part of a country’s law, which must have been done after some religious studies/ considerations, then who is Salman Taseer to challenge it ❓

    When I came to UAE, you moved to Canada or Khansahab choose to live in UK, we can not ask these governments how and why they have such and such rule or what are the pros & cons of it. We simply have to obey it or be held responsible for not accepting it. For example, can we question the logic of European countries for banning the Islamic Abbaya or head scarf for ladies ❓ Technically speaking, same goes for Pakistani laws and a governor of the country does have the right to challenge them.

    Yes, I have heard about that lady’s incident which you have mentioned and who finally converted to Islam and became Muslim, after Prophet Mohammed PBUH went to check about her health. Similarly, the ‘Taif Valley’ incident and many more.

    The point is that if someone bad-mouths me personally I may show patience and forgive them, but if the same persons cursing my parents then I would not tolerate and will retaliate in whichever way I find suitable. This is why the Islamic Scholars made it into a law that anyone who says anything blasphemous against Prophet Mohammed PBUP should face death sentence. BTW, Pakistan is not the only Muslim country to have this law.

    I agree with your point that when Salman Taseer reportedly used the words ‘Kala Qanoon’ (Black Law) about Pakistan’s constitution, he “may” not have meant Islamic Shaaria law and “may be” he was scoring a point on his political rivals (Zia or Sharif). But even if was so, Salman should have a bit more careful and diplomatic in selection of his words or he could have clearified later it that what I meant was blaming Zia or Sharif and not Shaaria, but he did not thought it was necessary.

    PS: Finally, today being Thursday, it is start of our weekend here in Dubai and as you all know, I will not be able to contribute much on weekends. Nevertheless, I will try to make some time and keep reading your comments/ replies. 😉

  104. #104 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 28, 2011 - 3:54 AM

    newguy

    Not only the BCCI, but the ICC officials who visited India told the media that there will be no problem and no delay. Now, they have lost their worth in the eyes of the public who were misinformed by the BCCI as well as the ICC. I am not sure if it was Munir who wrote something against Logart a few days ago. But, he did pass a sarcastic comment at him for being so diplomatic and basically a liar.

  105. #105 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 28, 2011 - 4:44 AM

    Munir

    In Surah Tawba OR, Repentance there is something mentioned about Blasphemy and I will quote the three verses from that Surah:

    009:64 Translation by YUSUFALI: The Hypocrites are afraid lest a Sura should be sent down about them, showing them what is (really passing) in their hearts. Say: “Mock ye! But verily Allah will bring to light all that ye fear (should be revealed)

    009:65 Translation by YOUSUFALI:If thou dost question them, they declare (with emphasis): “We were only talking idly and in play.” Say: “Was it at Allah, and His Signs, and His Messenger, that ye were mocking?”

    009:66 Translation by YOUSUFALI: Make ye no excuses: ye have rejected Faith after ye had accepted it. If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you, for that they are in sin.

    Allah is saying WE pardon some of you and WE will punish others amongst you…….. So, the punishment is in His hands and not in the control of a Man.

    Munir: I know about the way we pray, I know it is not mentioned in the Quran but, the way we pray today has been passed on from generations to generations and that is why there are differences in holding hands over your chest or, abdomen or, dropping your hands completely. There are people who believe in Farz and not in too many Sunnah prayers, there are people who pray a lot of Sunnah, Wajib and Witr so, people have different views about it.

    As regards laws of Sharia, among ALL the Muslim-majority countries, Pakistan has the strictest anti-blasphemy laws. Among other Muslim countries, like Algeria for example ninety-nine percent of Algeria’s population is Sunni Muslim, and the Constitution declares that Islam is the state religion, Algeria uses legislation rather than Sharia to combat blasphemy against Islam.

    In Pakistan, most importantly it is the prelude to vigilantism and rioting in the name of Islam being in danger or, so and so is doing blasphemy against the Prophet or against Islam in general. And, the uneducated masses take the laws in their own hands. Islam does not need vigilantes and mercenaries, Islam needs cool head, calm and composed, lawyers, judges, scholars and leaders to make the people understand that personal vendetta against someone or hatred towards non-Muslims should not become the victims of blasphemy laws. And vigilantes and mercenaries should be punished if they take laws in their own hands.

    Islam is Saudi Arabia‘s state religion. The country’s monarchy favors one school of Sunni Islam, namely, Wahhabism. The country’s laws are an amalgam of rules from Sharia, royal edicts, and fatawa from the Council of Senior Religious Scholars. Those laws prescribe penalties up to the death penalty for blasphemy.

  106. #106 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 28, 2011 - 10:57 AM

    NEW DELHI: The bosses of Kolkata’s Eden Gardens insisted Friday they could be ready to host next month’s India-England World Cup clash after the venue was ruled out because of unfinished renovation work. More on………………………………….

    http://www.geosuper.tv/news_detail.asp?id=37609

    I don’t understand this bureaucratic mentality of the sub-continent bosses who run these big organizations. First they take it easy, consider everything is for granted and then they suddenly realize that they are in deep $hit and start complaining that it is not fair and it is an injustice to their hard work and blah, blah. The same thing happened during the Asian Games in New Delhi last year, that they were behind the schedule and when they were admonished and penalized they doubled, tripled the labour force to complete the work. Now, we are seeing the same thing in Kolkata where they took everything for granted and were practicing the “EZ” going policy.

    After the venue has been shifted to Bangalore, they woke up suddenly from deep slumber and are brooding and lamenting that it is not fair and they are giving assurance that they will hand over the ground by Feb. 7th provided they are assured that the match venue is not shifted! Once again there is a bargaining chip here with that condition, “not to” change the venue. Why didn’t they took this matter seriously from the beginning?

    In the UAE, as a banker I have dealt with several gigantic construction and other projects and all these contracting companies had to keep a certain amount of retention money and the conditions of the contract were, if they fail to deliver the project on time, that money is forfeited and on top of that the contractors were penalized and even blacklisted for future contracts. I am surprized with the news that an organization like the BCCI was taking sides with the contractors by telling the ICC that everything is going smoothly and even the ICC officials announced through the media that everything is fine and they are satisfied with the work in progress.

    Now suddenly they are all exposed when this announcement is made public that Kolkata match will be shifted to Bangalore. This will be a fiasco because it is not just the match or the ground, all the logistic plans are disturbed, the tour operators have to arrange for new flights for both teams and their officials, plus the TV companies have to move their equipment which is not just cameras but, much more than that. There is also hotel accommodation problems, tickets sales and refunds and “blady blah and dady dah.”

    By constantly repeating such mistakes, they are confirming that they have not changed and this famous quote from the movie Sholay is very apt here:

    Hum Angraizaon Kay Zamanay Kay Jailorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
    Itni badliyoun kay baad bhee hum aaj tak nahee badlay ! 😀

  107. #107 by khansahab on January 28, 2011 - 7:29 PM

    Munir sahab

    Thank you for drafting a full response.

    Pakistan does not implement Sharia law in letter and spirit. That itself amounts to a travesty that, although you have sympathy for those who have been angered by Taseer’s comments and claim that Sharia is embodied within Pakistan’s “law”, only bits and pieces of “Sharia” are actually embodied. The reason for this is that Sharia law is not broad or comprehensive enough to cater for life as we know it in the present day. There are other reasons such as implications of practicality, relevance, efficiency and consistency with the English Legal System.

    We need to establish first whether religion is synonomous with morality. What I am saying below will be interpreted differently by someone who believes being “religious” makes someone more moral than not being religious, and one who believes that following tenets of “religion” is separate and distinct to being “moral”. I am pursuing the below mentioned argument believing that religion without morality has no significance and is morally neutral or worse still, morally bad.

    Keeping a beard, praying 5 times a day, fasting or attending Hajj 100 times may make a person “religious”, but it does not make a person “moral”. So, morally I cannot place the “strong religious groups” on a higher pedestal than Taseer. It would follow that to me, one party here is not necessarily good and the other, not necessarily bad. I believe this distinction at this early stage of my response to you is of paramount significance.

    My understanding of Taseer’s “blasphemy” is that he called the “Blasphemy Law”, “kala qanoon”. He did not blame or insult the entire Sharia Law as you put it. For example, according to “Sharia Law” his marriage with his wife Amna is legitimate and surely, insulting Sharia would mean that his marriage to Amna is invalid and his children are born out of wedlock. I therefore apply a purposive construction to howsoever he criticised Blasphemy Law. I believe one is at a risk of completely (perhaps unintentionally) manipulating the facts by suggesting that he has insulted Sharia. I do not believe he intended to criticise this law by which he married his wife, by which his son was circumsised and I am certain he had in mind that, if he were to pass away, his funeral arrangements would be conducted through Sharia (like how normal Muslim funeral rituals are). Therefore I disagree that Taseer was anti Sharia.

    It is hypocritical and morally bad for the Pakistani public to punish Taseer for his protest against Blasphemy Law, whereas someone like Qazi Hussein would not have faced their wrath- because of his appearance as a Mullah.

    In my mind the purpose of religion is to establish morality through a codified framework of rules, the breach of which results in punishment. I cannot believe that Taseer should have met his punishment by losing his life. The condemnation he received in the aftermath of his criticism of the law was appropriate punishment. He could have clarified his stance by apologising to the Mullahs, but one has to consider whether an apology deserved to be tendered in truth when all that he criticised was the “law” that whoever insults the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) should be hanged. If you are willing to consider what difficulties, frustrations and circumstances Qadri must have been going through which led him to commit this cold blooded murder, then you should also consider what insecurities, fears and frustration that Christian woman must be going through living in a country where exercising her freedom of speech can lead to death. If you disregard her sentiments, then I take the view your stance is biased and bigoted.

    I would respectfully submit that if you consider this Blasphemy Law to be a “good law” then I would beg to differ. No one knows in what context this law became part of Sharia. Its implementation is dated over a thousand years ago. As I said in an earlier post, the perception of good and bad changes with time. You are willing to compare the status of this law (and similar Sharia laws) to the “man-made laws” that we follow in our daily routine, yet, man-made laws change over time according to politics, economy and social considerations of the time. I am a Muslim and I believe in God and the Quran. However, I have serious problems with believing whether the law is simply that “whoever insults the Prophet should be killed.” This is because, enforcing this would be morally bad and would involve the taking of God’s most precious gift to Man- life. The context, wording and meaning of the actual law has to be explored and it has to be tailored in line with what is morally good. Otherwise, it will be abused, exploited and it will never gain overwhelming approval by Muslims.

    I think you are joking that Taseer’s comments have upset the educated classes of Pakistan, because the educated people are the ones who are calling Qadri a cold blooded, merciless executioner. Yes, the majority of Pakistanis are supporting Qadri but you know as well as I do what the percentage of university graduates is in Pakistan. I am disappointed you have employed this petulant remark to respond to me.

    If Sharia is not what you and I think it is, then let us leave Sharia alone and let us keep it neutral. This means that, you should not believe Taseer committed a “crime” and deserved punishment and I should not believe that my interpretation of the Blasphemy Law is necessarily sensible.

    I disagree with your analogy of us trusting doctors and not trusting scholars in order to address our problems. We often know what answer a Scholar will give if we approach one. However, medical science is evolving and it is complicated. Therefore, depending on the nature of illness, we have no option but to seek medical advice. If I have a question regarding Quran and Hadith, I can read the translation and align the answer with what I consider is morally good. If the answer is morally bad or morally neutral, then I know that cannot be the answer, as the purpose of religion is to preach and enforce what is morally good. However, I cannot read a medical book and assess what is morally good, bad or neutral. I will probably not understand the scientic/Latin names attributed to diseases, remedies, parts of the body etc.
    Secondly, religion like any other field, is a science and must be interpreted with deep thought, analysis and broadmindedness. That approach is only developed when one attends university and thereafter. I cannot concoct an alternative if there is one. I cannot figure out how one person can think deeply, analytically and with broadmindedness not having attended university. There must be another answer, another way to acquire that level of thought, but I am bereft of the answer. Therefore, I disagree that an Islamic Scholar should be trusted with his interpretation of anything unless that Scholar is educated at least at university level (which most scholars in Pakistan are not).

    You could not be any more wrong by saying I cannot “challenge” British law. Law is always evolving, changing in Parliament and government offices. It is changing across the whole world. It is probably changing as we speak in the UAE too somewhere. Most lawyers criticise the law everyday and everyday motions are introduced in Parliament to amend legislation. I am over simplifying the legal system here for ease of interpretation.

    I am sorry Munir sahab, I don’t understand this:

    I can say that although he was the direct culprit responsible for Salman Taseer’s killing, but Qadri was not the only one responsible for it and there were “strong contributing factor” to killing of Salman Taseer.

    I may have missed some of your points and I will hopefully address them should you identify them.

  108. #108 by khansahab on January 28, 2011 - 9:37 PM

    Newguy

    I don’t know what psychological processes children go through when they grow up and I don’t know how much of what our parents say affects the way we choose religion, careers, life partners, commodities etc.

    I also grew up hearing that being light skinned is good and dark skinned is bad. However, from an early age I was attracted to light skin. I don’t know why this is and I don’t know whether this is anything to do with family/cultural upbringing.

    I don’t think you can blame people if they choose things they don’t have choice over. A lot of white people will not be frank with what coloured people they find attracted to, because they are afraid they might be considered racist if they say they don’t like dark skinned Asian or black people. However, I do not have any qualms about admitting that I am attracted only to light skin because for me, it is not a matter of choice and there is no planning or contemplation behind it- it is like, some people like the blue colour more than green colour, and some people like pink more than yellow.

    Your views about physical attraction, intellectual attachment and emotional attachment accord with the views of the majority of people. I don’t know how the future holds but what I do know is that, no two people are similar and no one is 100% happy with their life partner. People have to compromise and change things about themselves in order to live together as a couple. So, if there is a certain amount of adjustment that needs to be addressed, why can’t one just go for physical beauty, as it is inevitable there will be disagreements/compromise in the future?

    I have a friend here (same age as me) who is born and brought up in UK and he asked me once whether I would marry a Pakistani girl despite her having a Pakistani accent (which is considered very low amongst the British born desi community and they make fun of it). I told him that I would probably find more in common with a British girl, but would keep my options open and would not discount a Pakistani if she was beautiful. He told me that he finds the Pakistani accent ridiculous and would not tolerate if his wife speaks in that accent in front of his friends/family and therefore he would not marry a Pakistani girl at any cost. I was watching TV and flipped through some Pakistani channels and I saw some stunning girls, one of them was a news presenter. I asked him if he would still not marry her if he had a chance because of her looks. He said, “Yes she is stunning but I will still marry a British girl”. And then he asked me whether I would marry that news presenter or if I would marry a British girl who was lesser looking. I told him I would marry the news presenter because she was stunning.

    So I have just mentioned that to illustrate the difference in mentalities between people.

  109. #109 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 28, 2011 - 9:59 PM

    khansahab

    your comment number 107 is an example of clean thinking and clear perception not only about the law (which you are a student of law) but, in general and you have expressed your thoughts very well. The point that you have quoted from Munir‘s comment in the last paragraph in which he has laid emphasis on “strong contributing factor”. Yesterday I went to my butcher to get some meat and he usually talks about politics and current affairs in that short period of time. So, I asked him how he feels about the brutal murder of Salman Taseer by his bodyguard? And, I asked him do you think it is OK? His reply was exactly the same what Munir wrote i.e., ‘there were strong contributing factors…. The butcher said in Urdu, “Aapko jaan na chahiyeh kay iss kay peechay kya Moharakaat hain?” Then you will say, Quadri did the right thing.

    The general consensus among the masses is, it is OK that Quadri has murdered Taseer, they say, he deserves it. Wow, how easy it is to say that especially since Taseer is not one of them. Like Munir said, Veena Malik will also end up like Taseer one day, at least 7/10 people I talked they say the same thing. How come it is so easy for people to talk about taking someone’s life in such a brutal way is OK?

    Anyways, I fully agree with your views on morality and religion. And, like to add a few words that religion, especially Islam is a way of life, and there is a lot of emphasis on morality, honesty, sincerity, peace, love, harmony and humility. Unfortunately, the Mullah culture has taken the opposite route and they are poisoning and corrupting the minds of the youth and in some cases brain washing them, using and abusing them and playing with their lives. Has any Mullah ever sent his child to blow up a building? All the known suicide bombers are reportedly orphans, product of a broken home, homeless, drug addict, disillusioned and mentally sick children.

  110. #110 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 28, 2011 - 10:05 PM

    I hope tonight Pakistan will play well and win this match to keep the interest alive. The 2nd ODI was abandoned due to rain and that added too much frustration to the team and the fans as well. I think the side that was chosen for the 2nd ODI will remain the same as they need to experiment this combination for the WC.

    Since it is becoming more and more clear that Butt is under pressure to retain Afridi as the captain for the WC, a win against NZ will make things easy for Shahid Afridi and for Ijaz Butt to announce.

    Regarding the support Afridi is getting from senior players like Akhtar, Razzaq and Gul the former is not so important because he will not be in the playing eleven because of his stamina. I am not sure if he can be any lethal on the sub-continent pitches where the ball holds a little and it suits the spinners or medium pacers. The match will commence in about 3 hours from now.

  111. #111 by khansahab on January 28, 2011 - 10:37 PM

    Pakistan captain donates bats for worthy cause

    Pakistan cricket captain, Shahid Afridi, has donated two cricket bats signed by his team for auction to raise money for the Christchurch Earthquake Fund.

    The Pakistanis arrived back in Christchurch yesterday for their second game in the earthquake-affected city during the current National Bank Series against the BLACKCAPS.

    The bats to be auctioned were used during the Twenty20 International between the two teams played at AMI Stadium on December 30. They have both been signed by the playing squad.

  112. #112 by newguy on January 29, 2011 - 4:55 AM

    I was watching news coming from Egypt, what a terrible situation unfolding, who knew things were this bad for the people in Egypt. Hope normalcy will return soon. It’s tragic what authorities can do to people when they want to hang on to power.

    Then I turn back to Pakistan – NZ match which was going slow even though Hafeez was playing anchor, what do I see, Sixes and Fours showing from Afridi’s bat. Few days back I said here that can Afridi answer his critics by scoring a 60 ball 100, well he did not get a 100 today, but he got a 19 ball 50. What an innings. Misbah by contrast crawled to a slow 35.

    I thought the last over was a let down, Pakistan should have went over 300, but this is good enough to win, although the ground is small, they have to be careful.

  113. #113 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 29, 2011 - 5:26 AM

    newguy

    Yeah, I was also watching the match and the initial two wickets were a bit of a disappointment and then there came a bigger disappointment from Misbah who scored 35 from 64 balls a painful strike rate of 54, he was playing for himself. He was lucky to survive a huge stumping chance which McCullum failed to gather the ball even in the second attempt. Hafeez played an anchor role and deserved a hundred whereas, Umar Akmal and Afridi blasted NZ bowling attack and it was a treat to watch that partnership.

    I agree with you about the last over, that is because Afridi was out by a very fine catch from the keeper McCullum and neither Abdul Razzaq nor Wahab could have swung the bat and hoist a couple of sixes. 300 is a magical figure and that would have put NZ under pressure, however this is a decent total to defend.

  114. #114 by khansahab on January 29, 2011 - 9:23 AM

    Afridi’s all round show contributed heavily in Pakistan’s victory. Afridi has silenced his critics with a whirlwind innings and a decent bowling performance. He should now be retained as captain but it is saddening that he was kept under pressure by the Butt management.

    It has taken Hafeez 60 ODI’s to reach his maiden ODI century but better late than never. He is a key player in the WC 2011 and he needs to perform with both bat and ball. We saw today that it was the all rounders (Hafeez and Afridi) who won Pakistan the match and the only specialists who made decent contributions were U Akmal and U Gul.

    Misbah should be dropped from the ODI team on the basis of this knock which was pathetic.

  115. #115 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 29, 2011 - 11:12 AM

    OPENING PARTNERSHIPS are so important that whenever the openers put up a decent partnership the middle order gets a big boost and the chances of winning are high, especially if one of the openers score a century. We saw this in this 3rd ODI, Mohammad Hafeez who was shaky earlier on and even in the two previous ODI’s played well in the 3rd ODI and that gave Umar Akmal and Shahid Afridi a good platform to launch big shots knowing that Abdul Razzaq is behind them. This team barring Sohail Tanvir is the best available side from the given resources. In the WC squad they should have included Tanvir Ahmad who is more accurate and less expensive than Sohail Tanvir.

    khansahab’s and I both wrote here that whatever happens, the captain must not open the bowling with Abdul Razzaq. He may be used later on but, definitely he should not open and I don’t understand the logic or the reasoning behind this. Don’t they see that each time he opens the bowling the batsmen start hitting him sixes and fours and this match was not exceptional. I think Wahab Riaz should open the bowling with any other bowler but, definitely not Abdul Razzaq.

    If Mohammad Yousuf is taken in the side (which they will not) he can easily replace Misbah ul Haq and his strike rate is definitely better than Misbah’s. Umar Akmal got out playing Misbah’s stroke, there was no need to pull that shot for a paddle sweep on a ball which was way outside the off-stump. The net result was a clean bowled. Imagine in crucial tight matches if a set batsmen gets out like that what could happen? We saw in the first T20 WC twice how Misbah got out.

    Kamran Akmal needs to improve his batting, it is good to see his younger brother regained some form and when he plays good, he is a treat to watch. Yesterday, one of my friends who was watching the match with me asked how come Hafeez scored his first century? Isn’t he playing since a long, long time? I said, yes but he was never encouraged by his previous captains like Inzamam, Shoaib Malik, Younus Khan, only Afridi has brought the best out of him. And, they blame Afridi for yelling Hafeez with 4 letter words. Actually, Ga**OO is six, and Ch****a is a 7 letter word, which Afridi used in the UAE when and in the UK when Hafeez misfield an easy ball and gave away a boundary.

    And, which captain did not use 4 letter words? Imran Khan was famous, and when he used to yell, the players used to keep their heads down. Inzamam the cool cucumber moulvi type also used to swear. I remember in one of the matches Inzi yelling at Shoaib Akhtar (when he misfield a ball at the boundary) BC tujhay tou Imran Khan chahiyeh jo har baat pay gali deta thaa… well Akhtar made his debut 5 years after Imran’s retirement.

  116. #116 by newguy on January 29, 2011 - 5:27 PM

    Hi Guys,

    Congratulations on a comprehensive win for Pakistan. This was an all round performance although some areas like middle order of Younus and Misbah do not look like fit for ODIs, especially in big WC games they will come short. I am not sure if Yousuf will be as effective as he was before, but he is a superior batsman than either so he can certainly score because of his technique. Good batsmen have the ability to pierce the field and place the ball with good timing.

    I still hear Misbah may be leading contender ahead of Afridi for captain, this will be a really bad for Pakistan. They do not want a new captain for WC especially sine his value in team is in question.

  117. #117 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 29, 2011 - 8:31 PM

    newguy

    Pakistan is full of surprises, so anything can happen in terms of captaincy change or inclusion of Mohammad Yousuf. You wait till the last minute and see. Ideally, I would like Tanvir Ahmad to be included in the squad to strengthen the fast bowling department. Shoaib Akhtar is a spent force and he has proved how ineffective he was in the first ODI, so is Sohail Tanvir. Since he earned that purple hat in the IPL, Sohail Tanvir’s attitude has changed and he has not been able to take wickets or contain the batsmen from taking runs. In fact he has been out of the team for more than a year and now he is back he is still very ineffective and expensive. The IPL success has gone so much into his head that in one of the interviews he was saying, “I am worth at least a million dollar.” I am sure he doesn’t know the meaning of ‘worth’ and the way he used it in his sentence sounds so paindooish.

    As regards congratulating us, a thank you is obligatory but, the team needs consistency. This is just one off performances and they need to repeat it on a more consistent and regular basis. Misbah must definitely be out of the WC he is a negative influence in the team. I would like to bring back Yousuf in his place. Younus Khan can still be considered for a 50 over match because, he will play better on the sub-continent pitches, especially in India.

  118. #118 by 420 on January 30, 2011 - 2:37 AM

    wow, that was a good win. .i remember the late 90s to 2003, pak used to make the max out of last 10 overs.
    may all the teams bring out their best. the WC heat is ON

  119. #119 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 30, 2011 - 6:01 AM

    420

    Just a week ago I was reading on cricinfo about the most destructive batsmen in the last ten overs, Afridi and Abdul Razzaq stands first and second.

    In this match Pakistan scored 129 runs in the last 10 overs. I wish at least a few of the WC games end up like this high scoring last 10 overs, it will be a treat to watch.

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/497612.html

  120. #120 by Mohammed Munir on January 30, 2011 - 12:31 PM

    Khansahab …

    I have read your reply to my earlier comments with interest.

    I liked your arguments on ‘Religion’ and ‘Morals’, and it seems you have laid a lot or significance on ‘morality’. So let me start my discussion from morals.

    More often then not, religion and morals go hand in hand, but as you have rightly pointed that there may be incidents of a certain religious persons being low on moral grounds and vice versa. The most interesting point here is that there is much more possibility of a moral person being non-religious then chances of a religious person having low morals. This is because, religion teaches you good morals but high morals does not teach you any thing about religion.

    Another equally noteworthy line of reasoning will be that morals don’t have a constant value and can be a set of different rules for different peoples. What I mean to say is that morals in Pakistan will be different from, may be, morals in England. For example, casual drinking, dating or taking sales commissions can be considered morally acceptable in one place but the very same actions may not be approved as good morals in a different society. This is not the case with religion.

    In an argument of religion and morals, a lot of peoples find is much easier to take side with morals when compared to religion, because religion is much more demanding and puts much wider restrictions. For Muslims, for example, praying 5 times a day, fasting for the month of Ramadan, paying obligatory charity (Zakat), etc. are an absolute must, which a lot of our so-called modern and educated Muslims find difficult to perform. So the solution in their minds is the next best thing, high morals. Not only do they start picking up on the religious guys for any low morals but they start believing that what is the need of religion without morals, so better have only morals whereas the religion part will be taken care by God. In my mind, this is false justification of one’s own un-religious behaviors.

    Please don’t think I am trying to pinpoint this discussion directly toward you or anyone person (as I know nothing about your religious duties and have no right in saying anything wrong on to you), but this is my general view of the so called modern, liberal, and open-minded Muslims who openly discard their obligatory religious duties while hiding themselves under the veil of high morals.

    I agree and yes you were right when you said that religion without good morals is a dangerous, but what would you have to say toward high morals without any religion

    Having clarified my point of view on the religion and moral discussion, I would now like to touch upon a few of your other points.

    I don’t like to once again go into much details about Shaaira Law, I believe that Sharia Law is broad or comprehensive enough to cater for the life as we know it in the present day, and we don’t need any consistency of Shaaria Law with the English Legal System. Both can and are working in their own successful way.

    When I mentioned about different treatment for Qazi Hussain, I did not mean because of his certain appearance, but what I meant was that Qazi should have “POLITELY” approached the President/ public rather then threatening them. Secondly, he is better equipped and practically higher authority to form an opinion on Islamic law then Salman Taseer, who with all due respect, is coming from a mixed-religion background.

    About Asia Bibi, I never said if she was right or wrong, in fact I mentioned somewhere in my comments that I don’t know if she was guilty or innocent. That being said, although, I have my sympathies for her, but I am sure my sympathies for Asia Bibi are way more then your feelings for Qadri. So while you remind me to be considerate of Asia Bibi’s situation, can I ask at least 5% of the same feelings from you for Qadri ❓

    It’s very unfortunate to note when you said, “We often know what answer a Scholar will give if we approach one.” and your further explained, “If I have a question regarding Quran and Hadith, I can read the translation and align the answer with what I consider is morally good.”

    This, to me at least, is a very dangerous approach, because you not only think but you believe that at age 20 something and still in college, you already fully know each and everything about Islam which any scholar knows. Not only this, but you further elaborate that you will yourself read the translations and “align the answer with what you consider is morally good.” A 20 something year old student of Law in UK thinks he can ALIGN ISLAM with WHAT HE CONSIDERS MORALLY GOOD ❓

    GREAT.

    So then, please enlighten us as to what do you morally think of cutting the hands of a thief or stoning of a rapist to death, “according to your considerations” ❓

    I would love to hear your views on this.

    I am really astonished at your logic of at least being a university graduate to be able to understand Islam better, because hundreds of Islamic scholars never go to UK universities, or any modern day universities for that matter, but they spend equal number of year or sometimes even more for reading and understanding of Quran (even Hifz at times), Ahaheeth, Fiqh and in-depth Islamic Shaaria.

    General Knowledge, University Degree, Good Morals, align-the-answer-with-what-I-consider, being-Good-Muslim-at-Heart, Non-practicing Muslim, Modern & Liberal Muslim, It-is-useless-being-Muslim-if-you-hurt-others, be-good-to-poors, be-good-to-all-human-beings, well these are all alternate excuses of a person who finds is hard to stick to his basic obligatory Muslim duties. That is to pray 5 times a day, fast during month of Ramadan (if healthy), pay Zakat (if meets the requirements), perform Hujj (if healthy and financially capable), Jehad, and others.

    And Shaitaan keeps the doubt in such person’s mind that you keep good morals and be good to other human beings, and Allah will forgive you for his own (religious obligatory duties) rights. Such a person can be a good citizen, good student, good father, brother, lover, husband, even a good human being, but NEVER a good Muslim. This is exactly like having a bag full of books but never studying in school and hoping that I will pass at the end of the year, because I had been good and socially helpful to all students/ teachers, so what is the need for studying. But this is absolutely wrong belief because …

    Amal Sey Zindagi Bunti Hai, Jannat Bhee Jahanum Bhee
    Yeh Khaaqi Apni Fitrat Mein Naan Noori Hai Naan Naari Hai.

  121. #121 by khansahab on January 30, 2011 - 4:34 PM

    Munir sahab

    The line of argument advocated by me establishes that although being religious is not synonomous with being moral, the end product of religious practices should be the imposition of morality. This is a process. It is possible for a religious person to be moral and it is possible for him to be immoral. In my view being “religious” merely attaches a set of beliefs to the individual- however, the question of morality arises when it comes to how the individual practises those beliefs.

    I agree with you that religion teaches you not to kill, lie, deceive, hurt, insult. These values are the end products of religious practices such as prayer, kalma, fasting etc. That what I have been trying to establish; prayer, fasting and Hajj without those end products are meaningless in my view. This is not because I have the power to judge anyone’s beliefs. This is simply because, there is no point embarking on a process, on a journey when one is not going to reach the destination.

    I disagree that religion is more demanding than morality. It is easier to pray, fast and book a ticket to Hajj than it is to be honest, fair, compassionate, analytical etc. There are many more Muslims who pray and fast than those who are honest, fair, reasonable, tolerant and judicious. In Pakistan even now most parents are focused on sending their children to madrassah’s rather than schools which in my view may be religious but it is not moral. It is very easy to flock to the mosque for Friday prayers but it is difficult trying to be totally honest, fair, judicious, compassionate and reasonable on Fridays.

    Since the objective of religion is to establish morality, a Muslim with morals but not religion in my view has attained the level of being the most religious Muslim. I have used “Muslim” here rather than any other religion, because I do not know in depth what other religions preach and what problems lie in other societies. Similarly, I do not see it fit to thrust non-religious people of the West within our arguments, because they are brought up believing that believing in God and following a religion leads to narrow mindedness. That is a completely different lifestyle fuelled by a completely different upbringing so let us not mention them.

    If a person believes that there is a God, that is is better to pray and fast than not, and that Hajj must be performed and that charity must be accounted for, then it is difficult to judge that person as “not religious”.

    I was suggesting that the British people developed a legal system which is more modern and efficient than Sharia Law. This system is modern and efficient because it can be amended and criticised without governments having to attach any religious significance to it. Hence, practically it is a “better” system. There is no country in the world where every legal activity is supervised by tenets of Sharia. Sharia Law does not say anything about what punishment computer hackers should receive, what different kinds of computer hacking offences are there, what the sanctions should be etc.

    Qazi Hussein may be more religious than Taseer but he is not necessarily a more moral individual. I do not want to criticise Qazi Hussein but he is not a very respected individual outside the Mullah community. I do not believe he is more equipped than Taseer to comment on Blasphemy Law. Taseer made a morally good, valid point that a person should not be hanged if they have insulted the Prophet SAW. He did not say that Asiya Bibi should walk away without any sanction. He merely said that to take a life on the basis of insulting the Prophet SAW is cruel and immoral.

    I don’t know what your point is when you mention that you have more sympathy for Bibi than I have for Qadri. Bibi, even if she has committed a criminal offence, has committed a crime of speech. Qadri has killed a man. How can you expect me to have similar feelings for both of them? Plus, not only has he killed a man, he is jubilant because he has killed a man. He has killed a leader of an Islamic country and the death of this leader affected the machinery of governance of this Islamic country. That man may have hailed from a mixed religion background (whatever significance one may attach to that- I don’t attach any) but he has a Muslim wife, Muslim children and Muslim family members. Thousands of Muslims saw him as an honest leader, thousands looked up to him. He must have employed thousands of people to work in his companies. So, many Muslims were benefited by him or were closely associated with him and they have all suffered.

    I have sympathy with every Christian, Hindu, Parsi, Sikh and Atheist who lives in Pakistan, a country where expressing criticism of a religious figure can lead to their death. But I have no sympathy with executioners and madmen like Qadri. In my mind he has no religion. A person who kills and then expresses such happiness killing, has no religion, no morality- he is the lowest of the low in Pakistan.

    You think it is unfortunate that a 20 something has said he interprets religion in line with what morally good. I think it is more unfortunate that you not only think that the validity or merit of an individual’s viewpoint should be judged by his age, but you would also make a personal attack on someone about their age. Your religion may teach you that it is reasonable to make personal attacks about personal characteristics to defend your opinion, but my standard of morality considers it very low, very cheap and very unreasonable to defend or attack a viewpoint by reference to personal attacks. I therefore cannot believe Islam teaches to use personal attacks because I cannot align it with what is morally good. I would therefore not resort to personal attacks about your age and background.

    My view on cutting the hands of a thief or stoning a rapist (or adulterer) to death is that, I see the merit in Islam striving to impose an absolute prohibition on crime and sexual immorality. However, whilst the idea may be meritorious, the implementation is not. Since I have never stolen anything from someone I cannot comment on what mindset an individual goes through when he steals. The reason why Sharia is inadequate is because, should the hands of a thief not be chopped off only if that person may steal repeatedly? What if the person is a juvenile; unable to make mature decisions? What if that person has been a victim of theft or burglary himself earlier on? What if that person suffers from a mental condition that impairs his ability to only commit morally good or neutral acts?

    I don’t think Sharia caters for all of these possibilites. If it does, please enlighten me- I may be wrong.

    Similarly, stoning someone who has committed rape (a very serious offence) depends on the mental state of the offender. If he is just pure evil incarnate, even then I don’t think his life should be taken. That is because he himself has not taken anyone’s life. Rape is one of the most serious offences in every legal system in the world and therefore a rapist in England or any Western country is not “let off” easily. The criminal sentencing for rape is many, many years, so it is reasonable to say that justice is usually done. Again, stoning that person to death is morally bad because of the implications it may have for the offender’s children, family etc.

    A civilised society is one where life gets it due value and one which realises that killing 1 person may lead to the lives of many being destroyed.

  122. #122 by khansahab on January 30, 2011 - 5:50 PM

    LOL @ Waqar Younis:

    “Test cricket is really a…. all about playing a lot of cricket!”

    ” The idea is to have a cricket in India” (IPL)

  123. #123 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 30, 2011 - 6:43 PM

    I like the debate going on between Munir and khansahab and on the subject of rape and stoning and cutting/chopping hands I would like to say something.

    First of all in case of a rape or adultery as far as I know, I may be wrong, the Sharia law states that 4 witnesses are required and they must confirm that they have actually seen the act and not on hearsay. Even if they say that they saw the couple closed the door and turned off the lights, is insufficient evidence. And, even the act has to be described in detail under oath (not just kissing and cuddling or body contact) but, the details of penetration. Which in most peoples (scholars) opinion is actually impossible to witness when someone is doing it behind closed doors and in dark. The significance of stoning is more of a deterant than the actual punishment. Deterant because, it will prohibit individuals from doing such crimes or, acts openly and in public. How many such punishments have actually taken place? I have no clue, if anyone has the statistics please feel free to quote them here.

    Similarly, the act of cutting or chopping off hands for stealing, there are different versions among different segments of the society stated by different scholars. In case of minors stealing something, there is definitely leniency in punishment and the same is for those stealing food items. Another view on this subject is, chopping off the hand from the wrist is a very harsh punishment because, the idea is not to make the person handicapped and make him a burden on the society but, to make him feel ashamed in the society, therefore, a small portion or crown of the small finger is chopped on repeated offence and that too, not the right hand or the hand which is more useful (in case of lefties). However, I have not come across anyone who has received this punishment.

  124. #124 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 30, 2011 - 6:53 PM

    Munir

    You cannot contain knowledge in numbers. In case of a few people knowledge is only experience multiplied by numbers. There may be no depth or substance in their views and yet they are respected because of their age, experience and appearance (especially those having a big beard). Therefore, I disagree on the point that being twenty something does not mean he is not qualified to comment. There are those who are super intelligent and acquire knowledge in a few years which others may not be able to accomplish in their whole life. There is an expression on the knowledge of youths and I would like to quote it. “Knowledge in youth is wisdom in age.” Of course, experience is the best teacher but, without knowledge and wisdom experience is only a number.

  125. #125 by khansahab on January 30, 2011 - 7:33 PM

    Javed A Khan

    Thank you for backing me and I am glad you see my side of the argument.

    Age should not have any significance whatsoever. If I am 20 or 40 it does not make any difference. I know how some people tend to associate a young age with immaturity and don’t take young people seriously. I could have lied to blog members and could have attempted to come across as much older. However I believe in doing my work with honesty and I can’t have good debates/discussion if I pretend to be someone I am not.

    I am a normal person with normal feelings, grievances and concerns. My views is not necessarily more intelligent or judicious than others. I am open to change and if I see a viewpoint which has depth and reason I will accept it. I also accept my mistakes and apologise quickly because I am not perfect and I am aware I can be wrong.

  126. #126 by khansahab on January 30, 2011 - 7:45 PM

    Ramiz Raja has started doing a World Cup show in which he invites cricketers and seeks their opinion on form, fitness and Pakistan’s WC prospects.

    The link I have pasted below features Mohammad Hafiz, but I have seen a clip where Raja is interviewing Inzamam, and I am amazed at how cheap Raja’s behaviour is. He can speak decent Urdu and English but his behaviour is totally uncouth and inappropriate.

    In the commentary box he relies more on style than substance and often his views are biased towards certain players. However after watching his behaviour with Inzamam I am convinced that we figured Raja out on this blog. I am really disappointed.

  127. #127 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 31, 2011 - 4:29 AM

    khansahab

    Its not that I am taking your sides but, what I wrote is, what I feel about something or someone. Even if there was someone else in your place I would have said the same thing. In my family I have nephews and nieces who have topped in their respective board exams and achieved scholarships and grants. As far as their academic knowledge is concerned there is no doubt that they are much ahead of I was at their age, but there is something that I possess i.e., knowledge (wisdom) and experience, that makes me a little wiser than them in worldly affairs. And, I see them analyzing things (and situations) better than most people who are twice their age. I don’t praise them on their face because, I know praise sometimes damage people if you do that on their face, especially in case of kids who are not matured enough. You are big and matured enough to understand what is right and what is wrong and you have a balanced head on your shoulders. Besides, I do criticize you when you and Omar Armani get out of hands when you see aunties twice your age. 😉

    By expressing my feelings about you, I am in no way undermining Munir‘s views. Over a period of time Munir too has matured a lot (i.e., compared to the PakSpin time) and his views are very balanced and have substance in them. In fact all our bloggers no matter how few they may be have great insight in many subjects and particularly about the game of cricket, they are much better than the so-called ex-greats who can’t even speak a sentence properly.

  128. #128 by Mohammed Munir on January 31, 2011 - 9:24 AM

    Javed Khan …

    I have addressed Khansahab on the age issue in details and I think the same shall adequately cover your points.

    Having said so, I still believe that Khansahab is actually super-intelligent and has acquired vast knowledge surely beyond his years. Nevertheless, it does not mean that any one, no matter smart or genius they may be, should start believing themselves that they have reached the levels where nothing more could be achieved because there is so much to study and find-out that no can afford to stop learning and developing till the day they die.

    I mentioned about Khansahab’s age in response to his comments when he said, “We often know what answer a Scholar will give if we approach one.” and he further elaborated on that by saying, “If I have a question regarding Quran and Hadith, I can read the translation and align the answer with what I consider is morally good.”

    I still don’t agree with this notion, even after taking age complete out of the equation.

    Lastly, I liked your quote … “Knowledge in youth is wisdom in age.” 😉

  129. #129 by Mohammed Munir on January 31, 2011 - 9:37 AM

    Khansahab …

    Morals and Religion seems to be an interesting, but endless debate.

    Nevertheless, being fair, compassionate, analytical, reasonable, tolerant, judicious and so on are all intangible and indistinguishable traits which differ from one person to another. One person’s values of being reasonable, fair, tolerant, judicious can be totally different from someone else and both would argue that they are morally on higher grounds. Similarly, as I have mentioned before, morals can be contrasting in different cultures and countries, because what is morally acceptable in Europe and America can not be allowed in Pakistan or Saudia. Being moral is more a state of mind rather then something quantifiable. As such there are higher tendencies of one’s taking shelters under ‘good morals’ in comparison to being practically religious which is easier said then done, and which requires mental as well as physical efforts and becomes all the more difficult to practice when one is residing in a non-Islamic (or lets call it less-Islamic) environment.

    Another point is that who would judge the consistency of ‘good morals’ and on what authority, is actually anybody’s guess.

    You said, “Since the objective of religion is to establish morality, a Muslim with morals but not religion in my view has attained the level of being the most religious Muslim.

    So you think a Muslim without religion (practically an Atheist) with good morals is a better Muslim ❓ Is this really is what you want to imply here ❓

    You further said, “If a person believes that there is a God, that is is better to pray and fast than not, and that Hajj must be performed and that charity must be accounted for, then it is difficult to judge that person as “not religious”.

    This was exactly the point in my earlier comments, that when peoples find it hard and impractical to perform their obligatory religious duties, they start thinking that only believing (not performing) in religion and carrying good morals shall be sufficient. <b<This is pure misapprehension.

    With regards to the parents in Pakistan who send their children to madrassah are actually the parents who can not afford schooling of their wards due to economic and other constraints, and I think we are fortunate enough to have availed expensive schooling and better living conditions. Secondly, there is a good possibility of these madarassah going children being instilled with good morals through religion. I agree that there may be a few unfortunate madrassah kids being used for other motives, but then which modern english school can guarantee cent-per-cent success rate of their students and even most expensive schooling may go on to produce unstable adults. We have to weigh and understand the options available to these underprivileged families who allow their children to go to a madrassah. Furthermore, this mainly done due to corrupt and “low morals” of political leadership who deprive them of equal opportunities.

    As you have rightly mentioned that law keeps changing and evolving with times, the same applies to Shaaira Law. I agree that Islamic Law can not be as flexible and compliant as any other human made law, but Islamic Law can surely have provisions of applications through Ijmah & Fatawa for meeting modern day maniacs like computer hackers, because hacking is surely a punishable crime in many Muslim countries.

    Khansahab, you are studying to become a lawyer, Inshallah, and so even if not for any religious affiliations but purely for your academic enrichments, it would be appropriate if you try to understand some parts of Islamic Shaaria. I am sure you would not only come to know weather Shaaria have provisions for juveniles, repeat offenders, mentally unfit, handicapped, or the state of a rapist’s mind but it will also help change your misconceptions about Shaaria. On my part, although, I am neither a religious scholar nor a law student, so my understanding of Shaaria may not be upto your standards. However, with whatever limited knowledge I have on Shaaria, I can say that Shaaira definitely have provisions and different punishments when (1) a rape is committed by force, or (2) when rapist are unmarried, or (3) when a married person commits a rape (like adultery, which may not even qualify as a punishable crime under some other laws) and so on.

    All said, I strongly believe that Shaaira provides a complete code of life meeting all our modern day requirements.

    On Issue of Age …

    First of all, I am deeply sorry to have hurt your feelings about your age. I never expected you to get so offended on this.

    I couldn’t even imagine that you are so very sensitive on such a trivial issue that you blame this on my religion. I am also surprised that you consider mentioning someone’s age as a personal-attack and compare it with attacking one’s background/ race. Although, I have respect for your ‘morals’, but on second thoughts when I relate your comments with what you have been writing on LS about, for example, Waqar Younis and making fun of his background, accent, commentary, etc. then it becomes hard for me to qualify all this as good morals. (But then again, it is none of my business and you must be having your own valid reasons for doing that). I quoted this only as an example.

    Secondly, I used age only to make my point that for someone who is still studying in college, can not have overall knowledge and experiences to fully interpret the entire religion adequately. My comments were similar to your own comments when you mentioned that, What if the person is a juvenile; unable to make mature decisions?” So this means that you also attach some importance to age and mature decisions, which is exactly I said.

    This means you think that a juvenile person has limitations of maturity, and so in the same manner maturity and wisdom will not have reached it’s ultimate peak in a person who has still not completed his university degree, and there is much scope for further growth, development and refined understanding with age.

    Thirdly, I remember very well that some time back you and me, we were having a different discussion and when I treated you like a complete adult and tried to make my arguments, you replied harshly back to me that if I would pass similar comments to my teenage son ❓ Which means that you got offended on me treating you like an adult and you wanted me to respect you and be polite with you the same way I would be to my son (young).

    In spite of all this, if you still believe that I was grossly mistaken to have related to you age, then I once again sincerely regret pointing toward your age.

    Finally, I still think it really is very unfortunate that a modern person (whose age I will not mention) 😉 has said he interprets religion in line with what he thinks is morally good.

  130. #130 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 31, 2011 - 12:00 PM

    Munir

    I did not support khansahab’s argument on the whole, I’ve defended only that age factor which appeared to me that he is being shunned because of his age. Secondly, I don’t believe that every person (including scholars) are always right because we are all humans. We accept those opinions from others which are closer to our belief (not the religious belief system) system but, the general belief system we as individuals have. I can discuss this separately later on.

    The debate on morality vs. religion is like chicken first or, egg first? And, it is hard for anyone to come up with a conclusion. However, if you look at the history of the Prophets – we believe they are chosen by God – before they declare Prophet-hood they were known to be extremely honest with very high morals. The problem we are facing today is, most of the religious people believe in form and not in the spirit. By form I mean the appearance, the way they dress, groom, talk, try to impress others by quoting verses from the Holy Book and they like to be seen and accepted the way they want to be, which makes them look more religious. But, when it comes to the spirit that the religion has provided us and emphasized so much, they are lacking in implementing it. And, that is where the morals come in and play an important part in separating them from the saints, sage, and a pseudo religious person.

    The most important point to remember is, a religion without morals is not really a religion but, a cult. What I understand from khansahab‘s view that you have quoted while addressing to me about aligning the answer is: He doesn’t trust some pseudo religious scholar interpreting the verses of the Holy Book or the teachings and sayings of the Prophet in his own way that does not appeal to his mind then, he would go for different opinions.

    It is just like one doctor may say a person’s leg needs to be amputated because, it is not curable. An educated patient will go for a different opinion, whereas an uneducated person who believes that his doctor is the ultimate savior of his life and if he is saying it needs to be amputated then he will believe in him considering there is no choice for him. God has given man the intellect and also the ability to do reasoning without challenging His existence. That is the reason He calls man “Ashraf-ul-Maqlooqat.” Or, The Best of His creations. By using the plural form He has cleared the doubts that Man is more superior than Angels and Jinns in fact from ALL other creations.

    To have a blind faith in religion is different from following a pseudo intellectual blindly is another. There is a point which I think in his comment number 107 khansahab mentioned something about religious scholars attending University in that particular subject (he mentioned science) to be able to talk with some authority. I will discuss this subject in another comment because, I do not want this comment to be too long.

  131. #131 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 31, 2011 - 12:57 PM

    Munir

    I continue my argument from the previous comment #130 about religious scholars passing comments on every subject with authority. As a banker I have faced this situation a few times and I am sure you being a banker will also understand my point of view.

    Most people think banking is not as complicated as Medicine especially in the field of neuro-surgery or cardiac thoracic surgery. They also think that banking is not a science (which isn’t) hence they can also take a dip in the Behti Ganga and claim themselves as an authority on banking. They know that they don’t know a tosh about the complex science and technology that is advancing the field of medicine from the crude desi “totkay” to complex laser surgeries. So, they don’t initiate arguments because they know they can be made shut up by a surgeon or a physician. Whereas, they challenge a banker by quoting from the Holy Books about the concept of Usury or Riba’a and stick to only one point that you cannot challenge the Holy Book. The point is not challenging but, understanding it in light of the various banking products that are in the market and not just the interest applied by loan sharks.

    I have always agreed that Usury is not only forbidden in our religion but, it is also an immoral act and is shunned by many other religions. However, in my opinion the confusion is between the word Usury and Interest. I have argued that these two are different. Usury is where the person who is need of money borrows a sum of money from the lender not only at a very high rate but, the compound interest rates makes it impossible in most cases to repay the loan. First, the lender lends for e.g. $80 and writes in his books as $100 and then applies the so-called interest rate on 100 and that too by applying compound interest rate. Whereas, the interest that banks or financial institutions are paying on deposits is not the same, it is something more like an inflationary factor or a compensation to meet the rising prises of the products over a period of time.

    The interest that the banks are paying today or, applying on borrowings in most cases are different from the amount lent by the loan sharks (except for the credit cards issued by the banks which are exorbitantly high and the way they sell or market these cards are immoral in my opinion.) First let us examine the interest rate we get from the banks on deposits.

    1. Interest on deposits: With time everything has changed, the volume of money, the population and lifestyles. Today, if you have a reasonable amount of money with you it is dangerous to keep it at home or to carry it with you. You are looted or, even get killed. So, first of all money in the bank is safe and so are your lives.

    2. You cannot lend your money to a friend who may be extremely honest and sincere but, may not have the ability to return it to you in case of losses. So, once again it is not safe to lend it to individuals. Even among the families when you lend money there is a blood bath between brothers on money matters and we all know about this.

    3. You lend money to someone today and get back the same amount after 2 years, the value of money is not the same anymore. For e.g., you could have bought a house for 50,000 two years ago and when you get back your money after 2 years, the house is for 60,000 hence you have lost that opportunity. Your friend or your brother may not give you 60,000. Whereas, a bank will you give you say 10% interest which acts like an inflationary factor and in 2 years you get almost 60,000 and you don’t have to invent the 10,000 to buy a house. House is just an example it applies on everything, food, clothing, shoes, furniture, fixture in short on all necessities.

    4. Besides, the bank is willingly giving you the interest on deposit on a fixed rate so that you know what you would be getting by the end of 2 years. A man with his religious belief asks: ‘how can you determine or fix a rate for 2 years?’ The risks are calculated and the rates are applied according to the market forces and the market information. They still don’t agree that a rate can be fixed, because in term deposit or time deposit rate is fixed in advance from 3 months to 3 years.

    5. I asked them is it acceptable to take interest if the market rate is changing on a daily basis? They said YES. I tell them that I keep my money in “Call Deposit Account” where, interest is calculated on a daily basis and it is not the same everyday. Most of them are not aware of such a deposit and they get confused and still don’t agree because the word INTEREST scares them. I had a lot of Baddoo customers who used to call it FAIDA instead of RIBAA and in English PROFIT instead of INTEREST and they used to take it.

    6. Some people argue that instead of keeping money in a bank where it lies IDLE we must give it to some business organization where they use it in their business and we share profit or loss and this is halal. Ignorance is bliss, money does not lie idle in a bank, the bank does business. Some say, yes they take money from you and lend your money to someone else at a higher interest rate. Yes, that is true, but now a days that is not the only thing the banks do. They finance business houses such as other banks and insurance companies, big technological organizations, projects, leasing such as aircrafts, oil refineries, pipeline projects, hydro electric projects, electrical sub-stations, desalination plants you name it and they are in it as lenders or as partners.

    The main objection from the religious point of view was money changing hands without much effort or risk is haram. But, most of them are not aware of the complex transactions that are made everyday in the field of banking.

    I asked someone, can I buy gold or silver and sell it the next day? He said, yes, you can and it is ‘tijarat’ perfectly halal. So, I asked how about I sell my dollars and buy pound sterling? He said, no it is money and it is not like gold and silver and there is no risk in it. All I could do is laugh or pull my hair, because money is also like a commodity specially foreign currency. Although in banking terms there is money market which involves only currencies to have a sharper focus on its movements in the market. And, there is stock market for shares and there is commodities market for gold, silver, Al2, copper, sugar, oil, cattle etc. etc.

    The risk of losing and taking profit in the money market is same as it is in the stock market and commodities. As a banker I have never bought shares and I am glad I didn’t. Also, in the money market I have never speculated i.e., played on margins. I did buy FC’s but with my own money and not on contracts. If you follow one or two currencies and if you play with your own money and not get greedy and play with 10% margin or, contracts not only you lose but, in my opinion it is speculation, sutta, juwwa, whatever and it is also haram.

    Will talk about Banks Lending Money for business and on mortgage later.……………….. I am not sure you agree with me on the points I have mentioned above but, the idea was to share my views and not to convince you. 😀

  132. #132 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 31, 2011 - 5:10 PM

    PAKISTAN CRICKET TEAM CAPTAIN FOR THE 2011 WC TO BE ANNOUNCED ON FEB. 04, 2011 – IJAZ BUTT

    Why on February 4th? Bakaoz on that day Ijaz Butt shall be circumcised

    Today he exposed the left side of his Butt and spoke to the media that, ” V shull A nonse thee Cap-tan on Furworry Four.” Period ! Kullo Jo Kalna Hai. 😀

  133. #133 by khansahab on January 31, 2011 - 6:56 PM

    Munir sahab

    When you say that,” because what is morally acceptable in Europe and America can not be allowed in Pakistan or Saudia” you seem to be hinting that the perception of human rights in the West is different to that of Pakistan. Firstly, Pakistan cannot be compared with Saudi because, in Saudi one cannot construct a place of worship of any religion other than Islam, but in Pakistan there is some recognition of minority religion rights. Secondly, all of the Muslims in Pakistan are not alike. You have Muslims like Taseer and you have Muslims like Qazi Hussein. So, I do not believe you should portray that only one type of Islam can be followed in Pakistan.
    Even if we take Islam out of the equation as just examine one’s morality, morally it may be acceptable to a Muslim to drink (whether in excess or not), do drugs (whether in control or not) etc. A Muslim who has been a casual drinker and has never drank so much in excess that he has lost control of himself- what is the moral position of this Muslim?

    When you speak about Pakistan being an Islamic country in which people like Taseer should not criticise any aspect of Sharia Law, which kind of Islam are you speaking about? The Sunni Islam or Shia Islam? Berelvi or Deobandi Islam? The Islam that preaches that religion should not have any business with the state or the Islam that preaches that the head of government should be a Muslim? The Islam that preaches that Eid should be observed in accordance with the preference of Saudis or the one that stresses the particularisation of the lunar position? If the moral standards of individuals can vary according to geographical positions, the religious standards can vary too. I would therefore submit that not just morality, but religiosity as well that is according to “state of the mind”.

    When I stated that a Muslim without religious can be a good Muslim, I did not mean that a Muslim disbelieving in God can be a good Muslim. It is an oxymoron to say that a MUSLIM can be a disbeliever. I was referring to your argument about practising Islam and your emphasis on religious practices.

    As to your point about a Fatwa for computer hackers, a legal system cannot just be premised upon Fatwas. How does Sharia define what the offence of computer hacking is? Here your use of the word, “fatwa” is just a religious order that XYZ should be punished. Punishment for offenders (and protection of victims/ protection of innocents) is the purpose of every legal system. Verily, even if you detach “law” from the argument, every religion of the world preaches that wrongdoers will get punished and gooddoers will be rewarded. So, there is no big deal in Sharia making scope for fatwas against computer hackers.

    I am indeed interested to know about Sharia. My only argument is that, firstly we cannot know exactly what the intent of the law is because it is communicated in an archaic language. Secondly, times have changed so rapidly that this law of 1400 years ago is inappropriate at best and incompatible at least in modern times. Thirdly, the “lawyers” of Sharia are the Mullahs and Scholars who are uneducated, bigoted, unreasonable and one dimensional in their approach. The lawyers of other legal systems are taught to be open, analytical and tolerant in their views but the lawyers of Islam are only taught that if someone disagrees with YOUR version of Islam, issue a Fatwa that they are Kaafir and declare them un-Islamic.

    Munir sahab, when I am having a serious discussion with you about the purpose of life, Islam and morality, I am not going to exercise my sense of humour and make fun of Waqar Younis. There is a time and place for everything. It may be immoral for me to make fun of Waqar, but if you analyse the literary construction of his comments, they are so funny. I am not issuing a Fatwa against him, just pointing out something that makes me giggle. You also make fun of my Shayari but it is done in light humour. I don’t think sensitively when you or Javed A Khan make fun of my Urdu or Shayari (I don’t think it is immoral of you or JAK to do that), because everything is done in humour.

    Whereas I attach importance to a juvenile’s mind when he commits a criminal offence, I also attach importance to a youngster who may think deeply and analytically about issues, so much so that his points may be valid or meritorious. So, I keep an open mind and I do not believe that age necessarily restricts the value of one’s opinion. However, with respect, that is what you are attempting to do when you say that a 20 something does not have enough experience to formulate a valid opinion. This 20 something has been speaking to 40 and 50 somethings almost everything on this blog for the past 3 years and I am sure that, if not anything else, has taught him plenty about life and about people. A 20 year old does not live in a shell, he speaks to people of all races, religions, ages etc. How much that 20 year old’s views are valuable, and how much merit one may attach to his views, should be judged by how he has figured out different people, concepts, ideas, processes etc. It should not just be judged by how many years he has lived.

    You say that you treated me like a complete adult when we had that last discussion. You were asking me about my sex life and that is inappropriate to discuss on a blog. I did not reply “harshly” back to you to ask if you would say the same to your children. Javed A Khan did that, although I did support his response to you.

    Of course it is wrong to criticise someone’s views by reference to their age. But, if age has such a significance, then surely this means all politicians in Pakistan should follow Pir Pagara who is very old. Imran Khan should follow Musharraf because Musharraf is older. Islam is one of the younger religions of the world, so should someone believe that Buddhism or Hinduism are “better” religions because they are “older”?

    What I didn’t like is that you attacked me personally. Like how you attacked my sex life previously. Let us not attack each other’s ages or backgrounds?

  134. #134 by khansahab on January 31, 2011 - 7:13 PM

    To expect Pakistan to fire in WC is a bit difficult: Abbas

    KARACHI: Former Pakistan captain Zaheer Abbas feels that players representing the country in the upcoming World Cup will have to play out of their skin if they are to reach the last four stage of the mega event.

    “Given the problems and issues Pakistan cricket has faced in the last one year and also the fact that we have lost three of our top players, it is difficult to see Pakistan among the top four in this World Cup,” Zaheer told reporters on the sidelines of an exhibition on Monday.

    “If Pakistan are to make the semifinals it will have to play extraordinarily and consistently well because I personally believe India, England, Australia and South Africa are the starting top four teams of the World Cup,” he said.

    The elegant batsman of the yesteryears said that Pakistan cricket had done well to slowly recover from problems like spot-fixing.

    “But this process will take time and it is good to see that the new players inducted in the team in place of Salman Butt, Mohammad Aamer and Mohammad Asif are shaping up well.

    “But to expect this team to fire in the World Cup is a bit difficult.”

    He said if Pakistan cricket authorities had acted on the match-fixing allegations years back and taken strict action, the sport would not have faced the crisis it is facing today.

    “Because we didn’t take action on the fixing allegations years back that today we are in a position where we have lost three very good and experienced players,” he said.

    Zaheer, who has backed Test captain Misbah-ul-Haq to lead the side in the World Cup, however felt that the board has delayed the captaincy issue for too long now.

    “I don’t think now with the World Cup just weeks away it would be wise to change the captain and Shahid Afridi, who is leading the team in the one-day series in New Zealand, should continue as captain for the World Cup.

    Zaheer also felt that Pakistan’s hopes of doing well in the World Cup would brighten if they win the remaining three matches against New Zealand.

    “So far they have not really dominated the New Zealand team, which to me, is weaker compared to us.

    “We should, on paper, beat them in all three matches and if this happens then Pakistan’s chances of doing well in the World Cup will improve,” he said.

    “We have already delayed our final World Cup preparations and plans compared to other teams, so, it is important we make the most of this series in New Zealand,” he said.

  135. #135 by khansahab on January 31, 2011 - 7:14 PM

    I have NEVER read one intelligent interview of Zaheer Abbas. He, like Ramiz Raja, only states the obvious.

  136. #136 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 31, 2011 - 7:46 PM

    khansahab

    What do you expect from a simpleton called Zaheer Abbass? It took him so long to understand that NZ is a weaker team than Pakistan. He said, “So far they have not really dominated the New Zealand team, which to me, is weaker compared to us.” 😆

    I was very young and, I used to listen to the commentary on radio when Zaheer used to play test matches for Pakistan in England, there was a lot of enthusiasm and British commentators like, John Arlott and Christopher Martin Jenkins used to create a lot of excitement, the roaring of the crowd in the background was tremendous. I always wanted to meet Zaheer, one day and it happened in Sharjah during the Champions Trophy. I remember Zaheer and I were sitting next to each other and watching that match Pakistan vs. West Indies in which Basit Ali scored a century and was hitting Curtley Ambrose and Courtney Walsh for huge sixes, I think it was a 69 ball 100. Zaheer and I were talking the whole day during the match and it was a big disappointment for me to know Zaheer personally. He is indeed a simpleton and very unimpressive person, I got extremely bored.

    I’ve met Ramiz Raja a few times in Sharjah and at one time we went on a long drive with Ramiz, my friend and I from Sharjah to a Strawberry farm. Ramiz appeared to be fairly intelligent and fluent in English unlike Zaheer, you can laugh in Ramiz’s company whereas you get bored in Zaheer’s company. After meeting a few times at home and in parties at friends house, I considered Ramiz as a fairly nice and balanced person. But, lately Ramiz has changed a lot, he has become more biased and his views are very jingoistic. Apart from that he does not appreciate the players from other provinces and never gives them the due they deserve. Whereas, anyone who is from Punjab he starts showering praises and accolades and also turns a blind eye and a deaf ear when they make blunders.

  137. #137 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 31, 2011 - 8:06 PM

    In history, sometimes along with human beings institutions also migrate. In the year 1947, one such institution, which migrated from Amritsar to Lahore was Muslim Anglo-Oriental (MAO) College. This college had a very famous Principal, who was also the first person from Punjab to get a PhD in English from Cambridge University of England.

    It was one day in the summer of 1937 that he, a bachelor, went for shopping in Hall Bazaar of Amritsar. As ill luck would have it, he forgot his purse in the shop and came back. A British lady by the name of Ms. Christable picked up the purse and went next day to return it to Prof. Mohammed Din in his college. Since the British lady had also been a Cambridge student, an instant friendship started. May be, that was love at first sight. Later, they decided to get married and their Nikah ceremony was performed by Sir Allama Iqbal.

    Prof. Mohammed Din had three children — two daughters followed by a son, who was born in 1946. Christable’s younger sister Alys also started visiting Amritsar and developed a liking for a lecturer of English at MAO College named Faiz Ahmed Faiz. The younger sister followed the elder one and married Faiz. At the time of Partition, most of the Muslim students and teachers of MAO College of Amritsar moved to Pakistan along with the college. The college itself got shifted to the premises of DAV College of Lahore located in the lower Mall. It still runs there.

    Prof Mohammed Din was handsome and a voracious reader, besides being a famous Urdu poet, with the surname of Taseer. He took over the Principalship of Islamia College, Lahore. Prof. Mohammed Din Taseer had an early death in the late 50s. His son and two daughters were brought up by his wife Christable — now converted to Islam with the new name Bilquees. The daughters settled in England after marriage in Muslim families and the son, Salman Taseer, became a chartered accountant. He later joined politics and became a famous leader of the Pakistan People’s Party. He became the Governor of Punjab province of Pakistan in May 2008 and was murdered a few days ago by a fanatic.

    Sometimes I think that had Prof Mohammed Din not lost his purse in the shop in Hall Bazaar, Amritsar, and had that not been found by the British damsel, many such events would not have happened. Salman Taseer was murdered because of his stand on the blasphemy law regarding Holy Prophet. There is a strange coincidence. His father too had praised, defended and arranged for the funeral of Ghazi Illamddin Shaheed in 1929 because Illamddin, who had killed Rajpal Malhotra, the owner of Hind Pocket Books and father of former Punjab Governor Surender Nath because of his comments on Holy Prophet.

  138. #138 by khansahab on January 31, 2011 - 8:18 PM

    First Ijaz Butt said captain will be announced after 4th ODI.

    Now he says it will be after 5th ODI.

    This has obviously happened because Pakistan beat NZ comfortably in 3rd ODI and Afridi performed commendably.

    Shame on Ijaz Butt.

  139. #139 by khansahab on January 31, 2011 - 10:33 PM

    Munir sahab

    I came across these videos on the Internet and the way this girl is appearing on Pakistan TV, she is just fostering the dirty mindset of Pakistani males. Whereas I do not want a Pakistan filled by Mullahs I also don’t think this dirty-mind “liberalism” is the way forward:




  140. #140 by JAVED A. KHAN on February 1, 2011 - 4:02 AM

    SOHAIL Tanvir should be dropped from the team, he is single handedly giving away the match to NZ on a silver platter. In 7 overs so far he has given away 47 runs. The pressure build up by other bowlers have clearly shifted the momentum in NZ favour. Its a shame that he is in the team. I understand Ajmal is injured but, Abdur Rahman would have been much better in terms of bowling and batting.

    Umar Gul, after getting involved in a row with Franklin is bowling wayward and not only that he missed a dolly run out chance. Ahmad Shahzad threw the ball at Umar Gul and Nathan McCullum was halfway on the pitch and Gul did not collect the ball cleanly and did not make a second attempt to pick the ball and try again, even then he would gotten the batsman out.

    Wahab is bowling good and took 3 wickets so far. Abdul Razzaq bowled his most economical spell of the tour with 3 maiden overs, one of them was a wicket maiden. NZ apparently were down after a good start of 38/0 in six overs were 77/5 and now they are 203/6 in 43 overs.

  141. #141 by JAVED A. KHAN on February 1, 2011 - 4:47 AM

    PATHETIC BOWLING FROM SOHAIL TANVIR……… he gave away 67 runs in 9 overs. Umar Gul was the second bad bowler he gave away 49 runs in 7 overs. Both went wicket less. New Zealand were 79 for 5 played well and added 184 more runs losing only 2 wickets. 263 is a competitive total for them to defend and Pakistan are vulnerable in the second innings, only miracles have saved them from losing. Abdul Razzaq perhaps got injured or tired that he did not bowl his last 3 overs. I am sure Sohail Tanvir will not be playing the next ODI. If Ajmal is not fit, they should play Abdur Rahman and NOT Rawalpindi Maal Gaari.

  142. #142 by Mohammed Munir on February 1, 2011 - 5:20 AM

    NZ from 79 for 5 has reached a respectable total of 262 for only 7 wickets, which will not only test the Pakistani batting lineup but has tilted the balance in NZ’s favour.

    Although they say the track is flat and the grounds in NZ are generally smaller, but 263 is a good target in NZ any day, specially chasing.

    Almost all the Pakistan bowlers got a bit of a stick, whereas Sohail Tanvir got hit for over 7 runs per over giving away 67 runs in only 9 overs. Abdul Razzaq was the most economical giving only 16 runs in 7 overs and bowling 3 maiden overs but he remained wicket-less, followed by Hafeez who gave 25 runs in 7 overs @ 3.57 rpo and took one wicket.

    I don’t understand why Afridi did not allow Abdul Razzaq or Hafeez to complete their quota, and I wonder why they didn’t play any specialist spinner in Abdul Rahman or Ajmal.

  143. #143 by Mohammed Munir on February 1, 2011 - 9:18 AM

    Pakistan has “somehow” won the game and although Misbah played an absolute gem of an innings (yet again), but I think Sohail Tanvir who was pissed with his own less then ordinary bowling performance earlier today, came with an agenda to stop Misbah from reaching his century. 😉

    Misbah went not out on 93, while Sohail smashed 14 of 6 balls with one more full over to spare.

    Ahmed Shahzeb, Younis Khan, Wahab Riaz along with Misbah put in good performances. 😀

    Umar Akmal, Shahid Afridi and Kamran Akmal (surely for his keeping) were below the mark. 😦

    All seems ok in the end as Pakistan goes one up.

  144. #144 by Mohammed Munir on February 1, 2011 - 9:28 AM

    Khansahab …

    I have read your comments above and I guess I can understand your views.

    I think that in our enthusiasm of discussions, we have come a long long way starting from Veena Malik to Salman Taseer, to Qadri, to Religion, to Morals and many related subjects in between. Now it seems to me that there is every possibility of further channeling into areas of i.e. Human Rights, sects in Islam, importance of Age and seniority, etc. etc.

    As much as I would like to continue this discussion with you, I find myself constrained with time, stamina, and interest in these new issues.

    That said, I would still like to answer a few of your direct questions from your last comment.

    To my mind, and I may be wrong here, but since we are talking about Morals and not Religion and Morals are flexible and subjective, I think a person who is a casual drinker and drinks within the set limits can be morally fine in Europe or America (because of culture, values and society of those countries), but he will be considered low on morals in Pakistan, Saudi and many Muslim countries. This could be because in Muslim societies, Morals are not fully detached from Religion and are always intertwined with the religious practices of the peoples. You may argue that so many peoples drink in these Muslim countries, and I will have to agree with you, but that still doesn’t change the fact, because so many peoples do things below morals and get away with that.

    Secondly, I absolutely have no objection, whatsoever, to a person of any age, formulating a valid opinion on any matter. However, my problem starts when a person of any age, starts to formulate an opinion on Religion matters as per his own likings.

    Khansahab, your exposure about Islam and Mullahs may be limited to Pakistan which in my opinion is not the most perfect Islamic country, or England/ West where Islam and Muslims are always portrayed in negative light.

    The Islam and its institutions and scholars in Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Malaysia, Indonesia, Iran, Turkey, etc. are much more successful, and modern. Now some of these countries may have corrupt political systems and unsuccessful government polices, but that doesn’t mean that Islam is responsible for this.

    How many peoples blame “Christianity” for America’s heavy-handed policies in the world ❓

    Similarly, no one talks about the religion of that white American guy who recently brutally murdered one of their politician lady, this would definitely not have been the case, if he was a Muslim, and we all know this very well.

  145. #145 by Mohammed Munir on February 1, 2011 - 9:36 AM

    Khansahab …

    I have seen both the clips you have posted and it seems to be some commercial local Pakistani TV channel, because I couldn’t recognize it.

    I would agree with you, excess of any one thing, be it too much ‘Mullahism’ or ‘Liberalism’ is not good. Whereas I would also go on to say that there is a fine line between what is called ‘liberalism’ and what becomes vulgar and lewd.

    In the second clip, that lady anchor was almost provoking the male-called by keep on say … Aur Aur Aur … untill he lost his mind and said what he said.

    He seemed to be ok when he started talking at first but he said something very vulgar and just imagine how many families and young kids must be watching it. The TV also did not try to stop/ censor it and the girl was also ‘cool’ about it.

    BTW, who would blame here, the anchor or the male-called ❓

    I think both are responcible, and may be the girl a bit more.

    Pakistan’s biggest problem is education of its population, and by that what I mean is that someone learned can see the same clip and understand and accept it as a normal thing, but the same clip can have devastating results on an uneducated and uncouth person who may go out and start misbehaving with opposite sex on the streets.

  146. #146 by Mohammed Munir on February 1, 2011 - 9:37 AM

    Oops … male-called = MALE-CALLER. 😛

  147. #147 by Mohammed Munir on February 1, 2011 - 9:42 AM

    Javed Khan …

    I absolutely liked your write up on banking and Islamic concept of interest and financial system as a whole.

    As I am a banker myself, not only did it make a lot of sense to me but it also helped me in taking ‘some’ burden off my conscience.

    I had been busy today and I would also like to read your comments once again in details before replying them.

    But they surely made a very interesting reading for me.

  148. #148 by JAVED A. KHAN on February 1, 2011 - 1:11 PM

    Afridi‘s captaincy in this match was very good but, he could do nothing to stop Sohail Tanvir and Umar Gul from bowling poorly otherwise NZ would not have made this many runs and the target would have been easy. However, Misbah is making his case for captaincy stronger by scoring runs, the goons at the PCB will not be looking into the aspect of captaincy but, who scores how many runs? Afridi, Hafeez and especially Abdul Razzaq bowled very well. The reason Abdul Razzaq did not complete his quota of 10 overs was not Afridi’s decision but, Razzaq’s choice. And, he did not use Hafeez because, bowling spinners in the death overs during batting power play was too risky. (Ajmal vs. Hussey is an example) Because, Razzaq couldn’t complete the quota, there was no choice but to use Sohail Tanvir who was pathetic and in my opinion he gave away at least 35 more runs. On top of that Pakistan gave away 33 in the extras department whereas, NZ gave only 8 runs.

  149. #149 by JAVED A. KHAN on February 1, 2011 - 1:21 PM

    Quote from cricinfo:

    Afridi: “Credit to the bowlers, keeping things quiet with the new ball on this great batting track. 265 is still not an easy total, but Shehzad started off well. The way Misbah and Younis took on the responsibility in the middle overs was crucial. Great knock from Misbah.”

    Misbah is Man of the Match: “Things have worked well for me in recent times. The wicket was really good today, I enjoyed batting here. I enjoy playing with Younis, even during the Tests and other ODIs in the past. The teamwork is coming through – the skipper is doing very well, the team is gelling well. We have a good vibe leading to the World Cup.”

    Who is that talking about cliques in the Pakistan team! Afridi is heaping praise on Misbah, and Misbah is returning the compliment. Between them, they have won Pakistan a couple of memorable games here and they will fancy their chance to close the series out in the next game

  150. #150 by JAVED A. KHAN on February 1, 2011 - 1:40 PM

    AFRIDI VS. MISBAH is an unnecessary debate and the PCB is responsible for creating this untimely chaotic condition. Misbah is in good batting form, although playing slow at times but, he seems to be accepting the fact that Afridi is also doing a great job as a captain (which is obvious from the comments pasted above from cricinfo). Disturbing the balance and harmony of the team which is gelling well (except for one fast bowler less in the team) and also winning two games in a row, shows that the team can improve further if stability remains and players are assured of their roles.

    Ijaz should scratch his BUTT and announce the captain before Feb.4th, the date he has set for no reason, which no one can understand, the interviews conducted by the media on the streets and shops of various cities in the country, even a layman is baffled at this decision of holding the announcement or appointment of a captain for the world cup which is only 18 days away! The recent polls (after the 4th ODI) conducted by the media shows Afridi has edge over Misbah in the captaincy issue and they all want this decision to be made yesterday.

  151. #151 by khansahab on February 1, 2011 - 8:05 PM

    Munir sahab

    I think the presence of that girl whose video I have pasted, or people like Taseer proves that people can have different moral alignments within one society. I also do not want to stretch this debate but, this has been an underlying theme of your comments because you appear to hold that only one type of mindset exists in Pakistan. You may be emphasising the majority of people, but the views of the minorities have to be catered for as well.

    In my opinion drinking itself is not immoral- what it immoral is drinking to excess that leads to behaviour Muslims may find “immoral”. However, since there is always a propensity that alcohol can be abused (like any medicine, drug, or even food) I think there should be a special caution against consumption of alcohol. I do not drink but I know people who drink regularly (casually) but never lose their inhibitions. Islam is not against the act of consuming alcohol. It is against the unpleasant behaviour that may arise from consumption of alcohol. Similarly, Islam is not against sex. It is against sex outside wedlock.

    You have observed that you do not have a problem with “age” and it is clear this is a complete U turn from your previous comment. I understand your problem is with people who start interpreting religion too subjectively. However with respect you are doing the same and the so called “religious minded” Muslims also do the same.

    I was not seeking to blame Islam for Pakistan’s political situation. In this debate about morality and religion I was just countering your point when you say moral standards vary from country to country. I asserted that religious standards can vary too.

    The Congresswoman who was shot in America did not die.

    Anyway I agree that if the shooter was a Muslim there would have been global condemnation of Islam.

  152. #152 by khansahab on February 1, 2011 - 8:28 PM

    Javed A Khan

    I don’t think Misbah is praising Afridi because he genuinely does not want captaincy. He is just portraying himself as a team man.

    Pakistan is beating NZ, but Australia, India, England and SA would have thrashed this NZ team.

    Pakistan’s bowling is a definite problem.

  153. #153 by khansahab on February 1, 2011 - 9:11 PM

    If the public of Egypt can cause a revolution why can’t Pakistanis?

    And why did the public come out against Musharraf but not Zardari or Nawaz Sharif?

  154. #154 by JAVED A. KHAN on February 1, 2011 - 9:23 PM

    khansahab

    On drinking you wrote that “In my opinion drinking itself is not immoral- what it immoral is drinking to excess that leads to behaviour Muslims may find “immoral”. I dunno if you remember my debate with Omer Armani, I have written several comments on this subject. I have heard a lot of people who drink they say, “Alcohol is good if you drink in moderation and it is good for health etc., etc.” Whether you drink in moderation or in excess, it still remains an evil and that is why it is forbidden in Islam. Morality or no morality it is forbidden so, period, there is no discussion. I am not trying to shun you but, the fact is, there is no excuse to commit or indulge in consuming alcohol. Someone said, alcohol is so good that you can preserve everything in it. A wise person my father knew him personally replied: “Yes, you can preserve everything in it, except your dignity.”

  155. #155 by JAVED A. KHAN on February 1, 2011 - 9:23 PM

    khansahab

    On drinking you wrote that “In my opinion drinking itself is not immoral- what it immoral is drinking to excess that leads to behaviour Muslims may find “immoral”. I dunno if you remember my debate with Omer Armani, I have written several comments on this subject. I have heard a lot of people who drink they say, “Alcohol is good if you drink in moderation and it is good for health etc., etc.” Whether you drink in moderation or in excess, it still remains an evil and that is why it is forbidden in Islam. Morality or no morality it is forbidden so, period, there is no discussion. I am not trying to shun you but, the fact is, there is no excuse to commit or indulge in consuming alcohol. Someone said, alcohol is so good that you can preserve everything in it. A wise person my father knew him personally replied: “Yes, you can preserve everything in it, except your dignity.”

  156. #156 by khansahab on February 1, 2011 - 10:46 PM

    Javed A Khan

    If I considered there was any benefit or morality in drinking I would drink myself. But, I do not.

    This is not necessarily from a moral point of view, save that I cannot be entirely sure I would be able to resist the temptation of excess.

    There are reasons for why “sins” are sins and why virtues are virtues. Alcoholism is sin because of the temptation of excess and the immorality that may stem from it.

    I am not defending alcoholism or encouraging anyone to drink. In my case prevention is better than cure and this is my recommendation to everyone.

  157. #157 by newguy on February 2, 2011 - 12:12 AM

    Hi Guys,

    I understand the religious connotation of drinking as evil in Islam. But really what is wrong in drinking a glass of wine with dinner once in a while, or having a beer or two, or even on a cold winter night having a stiff drink. I don’t see the evil. I don’t drink regularly, but I drink a glass or two of wine when I am at home and relaxed and have good food to go along, sometimes I enjoy having it while I am cooking. I also have a beer or two in summer when we have good food and a party going on. I never behaved out of control whether drinking or not.

    This is coming from a person who has seen the evil side of drinking and even suffered a bit, but it was not drinks that caused evil, it was a choice of the person who took the drinks to go evil after taking it. I never take drinks to go evil, I only take it when I am fully in control and relaxed and in happy situation.

    I fail to see why drinks are evil. Drinks like Wine do have health benefits, and in cold wintry places even hard drinks have a place to preserve life sometimes.

    Smoking on the other hand is evil and it has not benefits, it just kills people. I think Smoking should be called evil instead of drinking.

  158. #158 by newguy on February 2, 2011 - 12:20 AM

    Javed Khan,

    Misbah is not fooling anyone when he acts all team matey with Afridi and calls him a good captain. Same goes for Afridi. Both them have been given the party stand by management that you guys should show solidarity in front of public. It is clear that at this point that Afridi will remain captain because everyone knows the game by now if Misbah is made captain. Both of them have good showing now in consecutive matches as well.

    Misbah played a good innings, but his previous match scoring was below par, it remains to be seen whether he can do this type of a chase against quality opposition. I am not knocking the positives coming out of this tour for Pakistan, but it’s too soon to exchanges hugs and high fives.

  159. #159 by JAVED A. KHAN on February 2, 2011 - 2:02 AM

    newguy

    On the subject of drinking, one always defend it by citing personal examples. The reason it has been forbidden in Islam is, it is not for one or two or, a few individuals but, a majority of the people are not same as others who go by moderation. Most people lack in self control and that is when the evil side is obvious. I have seen some very nice, well behaved, gentle, humble people who in their normal life are full of humility, right in front of my eyes after a couple of drinks they started talking vulgar, started abusing those whom they otherwise respect a lot. And, later on, after they came back to their senses, they started crying and begging forgiveness. So, a rule is not for an individual or a group of people but for everyone. I hope you understand my point?

    During the early days of Islam people used to drink and reportedly one of the very important personalities got drunk and while praying and he made some serious mistakes in reciting the prayers (I have not read it anywhere, but I have heard it from a few people) so, one of the closest companions of the Prophet cited this example and begged him to forbid alcohol. Hence, after that it was revealed that consuming alcohol is forbidden. Here is a brief explanation with the verses from the Holy Qur’an:

    Intoxicants were forbidden in the Qur’an through several separate verses revealed at different times over a period of years. At first, it was forbidden for Muslims to attend to prayers while intoxicated (4:43). So, some people derived the meaning that it is forbidden ONLY when you attend to prayers.

    Then a later verse was revealed which said that alcohol contains some good and some evil, but the evil is greater than the good (2:219). This was the next step in turning people away from consumption of it. Some people still derived the meaning which they liked and continued drinking.

    Finally, another verse was revealed wherein, “intoxicants and games of chance” were called “abominations of Satan’s handiwork,” intended to turn people away from God and forget about prayer, and Muslims were ordered to abstain (5:90-91).

    The most important part of it is, The Prophet Muhammad instructed his followers, at the time, to avoid any intoxicating substances — (paraphrased) over the years, the list of intoxicating substances has come to include more modern street drugs and the like. “if it intoxicates in a large amount, it is forbidden even in a small amount.” For this reason, most observant Muslims avoid alcohol in any form, even small amounts.

    I agree with you that cigarette is definitely evil as millions of people die because of tobacco consumption and I would like to add it in the list of street drugs. The only difference between the street drugs and tobacco is, the later kills at a slow pace and not only kills the consumer but, also the second hand smoke inhalers. The Sheesha is also a misnomer which people think is clean. As the water in the hubble bubble purifies the smoke and retains the nicotine. This is rubbish. Smoking Sheesha for 1 hour is like smoking 20 cigarettes. Secondly, the warm water in the Sheesha is a perfect breeding place for bacteria like, hepatitis, diphtheria, TB and other contagious diseases. Some people use their plastic cap when their turn comes and assume it is safe! Ignorance is bliss.

  160. #160 by Sagaat on February 2, 2011 - 3:14 AM

    I can’t understand why they have chosen such a ridiculous format for the world cup. After a mammoth round robbin, 4 teams will qualify out of the 7 from each group to the quarterfinals. Having so many matches in the round robbin means that almost certainly the minnows will not qualify. Then no points will be carried over to the next stage and there would be quater-finals. In other words, in a 55 day world cup, 85-90 percent of the world cup matches will be rendered pointless. Then bam bam and its over. The whole process is quite remarkable. I am sure after the ordeal will be over, the crowds in India would never be fooled again by the ICC.

    If they just had semis after the round robbin, it would make much more sense.

  161. #161 by newguy on February 2, 2011 - 3:52 AM

    JAK,

    Yeah, I understand what you are saying about drinking as an evil as it applies to everyone. In fact I have extreme control over when where and what I drink and no one can ever get me to take a sip if I don’t want to. I can live without drinking for ever, I mean days, weeks, and months and nothing will ever happen. But a lot of people who drink are not like that. In this regard I think my personal experience is not applicable in this context.

  162. #162 by Mohammed Munir on February 2, 2011 - 6:22 AM

    Khansahab …

    In your above comment no. 151, you have passed two statements, which I not only totally I disagree to, but I can say with certain conviction that you are wrong.

    You said, Islam is not against the act of consuming alcohol. It is against the unpleasant behaviour that may arise from consumption of alcohol.

    Javed Khan has very clearly explained that alcohol is strictly prohibited in Islam, no matter whichever country you reside it and he has very rightly provided detailed Quranic Aayat in this regards. I also remember his discussion with Omer Admani on topic of drinking in Islam.

    To this I would like to add that alcohol is so strictly and severely prohibited in Islam that more Islamic Scholars are even restricting use of perfumes which contain some alcohol in them. Now this may not make sense to you, but recently I heard an Islamic Scholar who is Professor of Islamic Shaaria in a local university (so he is very highly educated, much beyond a normal university degree), has explained that in Islam alcohol is “Nijjis” and so it is appropriate to avoid perfumes which contain alcohol in it. He further explained that although some peoples argue that alcohol in perfumes ‘evaporates’ in air but the “Nijjasa” remains on person’s clothing. This scholar was a relatively liberal person and toward the end of his discussion he pointed that although some smaller number of Islamic Scholars have allowed limited use of perfumes, but it is still better to avoid, wherever possible.

    There is a Hadeeth, for which I don’t remember the reference no. now, and it says, “There are clear Halaals, and there are clear Harrams, and in between them lies the ‘area of doubts’. Don’t go near ‘doubt areas’ because these will make you astray”.

    May Allah save all Muslims from drinking.

    In your second statement, you said, In this debate about morality and religion I was just countering your point when you say moral standards vary from country to country. I asserted that religious standards can vary too.

    Religion does not vary from country to country, and if you ‘think’ so, then I am sorry to say that you are grossly mistaken.

    On Drinking and Islam …

    All I have to say is that Islam (even none of it’s sects) allow drinking/ casual drinking/ drinking in smallest quantities/ drinking anyone type of alcohol or drinking pure alcohol in any form or type.

    I am not a strictly very religious person and I have many faults in me but I, and this may sound strange to you, do not even eat any dishes cooked with alcohol or even any confectionery (chocolates, tiramisus, cakes, sweets, etc.) which contain alcohol, let alone even thinking about drinking. Although, I am very fond of perfumes and still use modern perfumes which contain some alcohol, however, after listening to this scholor’s explainations, I would like to ‘minimise’ my usage of modern perfumes, and increase using non-alcoholic ‘Atar’ or ‘Bakhoor’, which I was using less before.

    Comming back to topic of drinking, I have seen peoples in my family/ friends circles who are casual drinkers, but that does not mean that they have the right to justify their wrong actions.

    What I mean is that if any Muslim is bold enough to ignore Islam and Quran and drinks alcohol (no matter how small), he should be at least brave enough to confess his mistakes and face it’s consequences and should not look for lame excuses in justifying a wrong thing just because he is doing so.

    Furthermore, there are levels (Darajaat) of rewards and punishments in Islam for all Muslims. One person who drinks alcohol (although he surely commits a sin) may not have same punishments as another. Similarly, if someone lives in Saudi or any other Muslim country and he never drinks alcohol, he can not be compared with someone living in UK/ Europe or America who does not drink, because the one in a Muslim country doesn’t have it readily available plus he is in an environment where it is morally unacceptable and a crime to drink, whereas the second person makes a conscious choice and special efforts in restricting himself from drinking. So in my humble understanding, his reward for not drinking will be much more then the one living in a Muslim country.

    But these “Darajaat” or levels in rewards/ punishments are not decided or visible to us humans, and are for Allah Himself to Decide.

    (WaAllah-O-Aalam Bis Sawab … And Allah knows the best).

    May Allah guide us all to be good Muslim in every way.

  163. #163 by JAVED A. KHAN on February 2, 2011 - 2:56 PM

    Munir

    First of all the alcohol in perfumes is not the same alcohol which people drink. The fermented one is the one which intoxicates people when they drink. As regards alcohol in perfumes, colognes, deodorants etc., is synthetic also known as industrial alcohol and there is a big difference between the one which is fermented and the one that is synthetic and manufactured in industries. That Mullah whosoever he may be is perhaps naive and does not have enough knowledge or, he may be an extremist in the sense that the moment he heard the word alcohol he said, it is haraam. In Urdu we call alcohol as Sharaab but, in Arabic Sharaab means Sharbat whereas, Qamr means alcohol.

    Synthetic alcohol is NOT Najjis, it is also called denatured alcohol, which is industrial methylated spirit or surgical spirit (contains natural or synthesized ethanol and denaturing agent such as methanol or methylisobutyl ketone, which is a solvent and it is manufactured from acetone. IF, someone drinks it and get drunk, in that case glue sniffing, kerosene oil sniffing and consuming other street drugs manufactured processed in industries without fermentation, even their consumption is same as fermented alcohol.

    Use perfumes, colognes, deodorant for the purpose they are created for and don’t drink it or sniff it like glue and kerosene oil. 😀

    Secondly, on the punishment of consumption of alcohol for people living in Muslim countries and those in the UK or the USA all I can do is 😆 BAKAOZ who says it is not easily available in Dubai? Even in the KSA those who want it, they get it without any problem. There are reportedly more BIKINI wearing women in Dubai than in London or New York. There is more pornographic material and access to the internet for porn in these countries than other countries, am I wrong?

  164. #164 by JAVED A. KHAN on February 2, 2011 - 3:15 PM

    newguy

    thanks for understanding my point of view. 😀

    What is your view about Sagaat’s comments on the WC format? He made an interesting point. “I am agree”

    Australia defeated England once again, the good point is, there is no century maker from the Australian side but, a few from the top order contributed well and at a good strike rate. They did well by sending Johnson up the order.

    Pakistan should do this when the target is stiffer, they should send, Afridi, Razzaq and Umar Akmal up the order and push Misbah and Younus Khan down.

  165. #165 by newguy on February 2, 2011 - 6:00 PM

    Javed Khan,

    Regarding the WC format, everyone has a comment on how bad it is, there will always be a bad comment no matter what the format is, it was there even for the last WC. Several formats have been tried during the WC, league based, super six, so on .. But I am yet to see a comment on how to improve it, going directly to semi after a super eight is equally bad for minnows.

    This format of QF, SF, and F is the most popular and followed by the biggest WC of ever, the Football WC. FIFA has 32 teams in first round, then group of 16, then 8 teams in Qtr, and finally semis and finals. No one has prevented minnows from progessing from round of 32 to 16 and then to Qtr and semis in Football WC. There has been many surprises in all WC. If minnows are not qualifying in cricket WC then it is a problem with their game, not the format.

    This cricket WC can be compared to round of 16 for the first round, then you have 8 in QF, semis and finals. I am fine with this format. I like the aspect of three knockout games, that gives the top 8 teams equal chance at the cup if they can hold their nerves in 3 knockout games instead of just 2. It also eliminates chance of some team sneaking through on net run rate to semi then having only two games to win.

    In the end, no matter how you cut it there will always be some games that will be considered a waste, but it won’t be a waste if every team compete, unlike Football however in cricket this is not possible. One solution then is to eliminate minnows altogether, but the idea of including them in WC is not to make it very interesting, it is to give them participation and promotion of game.

    Let’s just enjoy the cricket.

  166. #166 by Sagaat on February 3, 2011 - 2:35 AM

    Newguy,

    You missed the point. The numerous round-robbin matches are there to discount the posssibility that minnows qualify to the quarterfinals. But to devote 85-90 percent of the world cup for that beggars belief. Can you explain what purpose does 85-90 percent of the world serve or what is there to play for, apart from hoping that a minnow doesn’t qualify?

    Think about it sthis way: For Canada to upset Pakistan, they would have to beat ALL the other minnows and Pakistan, and and hope that Pakistan lose to all the major teams.

    The criticism in the last world cup was that all it took was one match for a minnow to qualify. The idea of super-six’s was pretty good, but it turned out to be totally uncompetitive as two minnows qualified, thus leaving it “purposeless”. But this time it has been ensured that 85-90 percent of the world cup is purposeless. Last time it was misfortune.

  167. #167 by JAVED A. KHAN on February 3, 2011 - 4:44 AM

    Ahmad Shahzad’s century did not put NZ under pressure and in the last ten overs Pakistan were able to score only 63 runs as opposed to 129 in the previous match. The irony is none of the batsmen were able to read the slower ball and NZ bowlers bowled almost six slow balls in one over. Misbah’s 25 came at his usual strike rate of 56 and even Umar Akmal did not play to his potential, 32 runs in 32 balls is not good by his standards. Afridi was out on his usual ball a big skier to end his innings which was expected sooner than later.

    I dunno what Shoaib Akhtar would be able to do in today’s match? He is in the team and did not bat, so he should be fresh and must be able to bowl at least 5 decent overs. Vettori is not in the team but Jessey Ryder will be playing so they will have a good start. Pakistan should have scored 300 but they are 32 runs short. The match is on and it could be anyone’s game. Pakistan’s bowling is a big worry.

  168. #168 by Mohammed Munir on February 3, 2011 - 4:58 AM

    Pakistan team has messed it up towards the end.

    At one time they were definitely looking good for 300 + but they closed their innings only @ 268 for 8.

    What is the benefit of having so many hard hitters (Afridi, Razzaq, Umer Akmal, Kamran Akmal, Wahab Riaz, etc.) if none of them clicks when needed. 😦

    Ahmed Shehzad was exceptionally good and played fast, reaching his century. I guess this was his first. Other then Shehzad, no one contributed enough, and then second highest score was 32.

    Misbah, BTW, was the biggest culprit and he wasted 44 balls for his 25 runs and that too as a crucial stage when the accelerator needed to be pushed.

    There are more chances of loosing this game then winning as of now.

  169. #169 by Mohammed Munir on February 3, 2011 - 6:01 AM

    World Cup Format …

    Though, pretty unwarranted discussion for me, but I’ll still like to toss my own inflammatory two cents in: ICC is increasing the number of matches mainly to earn more money and keep the schedule longer by giving more games to minnows.

    Although it is good because the minnows will get more exposure, but at the same time many of the earlier stage games will be considered ‘dead-rubber’ and may not have real interest from fans.

    On the other hand, the current format shall suit Pakistan well because in the second stage it needs a team to have only three good (lucky) games to win the tournament and that is better for Pakistan team as our ‘boys’ can not consistently play good for longer periods. 😉

    BTW, have anyone noticed that immediately after finishing the ‘long’ World Cup, IPL Season starts and it may provide good relaxation to players as well as fans after the hectic World Cup. 😆

    Although students will have an overdose of cricket in their busy exams periods ( February/ March / April) in Asian countries.

  170. #170 by Mohammed Munir on February 3, 2011 - 6:16 AM

    Javed Khan …

    You are right about drinks being easily available in Dubai or many other Muslim countries, but my main point was that the person who is making extra efforts to restrict himself from committing a sin is the one who shall have higher rewards.

    Let’s take a hypothetical situation for discussion only and say there is absolutely no alcohol in Saudi, so if someone who lives in Saudi and says that I don’t drink, he is not doing anything special, but if the same person goes to UK or America where alcohol is easily available in abundance (even at grocery stores) and he still doesn’t drink then his reward in UK/ America shall be much higher then when he was in Saudi.

    Similarly, if someone have a medical condition and has been advised by the doctors not to drink at all, he shall be rewarded much less than another person who is fit and healthy and he doesn’t drink purely for religious reasons fearing Allah.

    What I basically meant was that there are levels (Darajaat) of rewards and punishments.

    On your other point, I must confess that my knowledge on alcohol and it’s different forms and technicalities is much less then yours, however, I know for sure that glue-sniffing is a crime in UAE and sale of glue to teenagers is banned. Because many teenagers are seen sniffing glue (specially the glue which is used under the carpets) and it also makes them ‘high’. I am sure they must be using industrial alcohol in a glue but it still have the ‘high’ effect.

    Secondly, I would consider ‘alcohol-in-perfumes’ as an “area of doubt” (referring to above Hadeeth), where it may not be totally Harram and it may also not be clearly Halaal, so in this condition it is better to be on the safe side and avoid it, or atleast use it in minimum quantities and keep looking for safer alternatives.

    Again I would emphasis on levels (Darajaat) of rewards and punishments and efforts one is doing to avoid them.

  171. #171 by JAVED A. KHAN on February 3, 2011 - 10:01 AM

    THE SAME OLD BAJA – RAMIZ RAJA

    “Former Captain Ramiz Raja on Wednesday said that Pakistan cricket team can reach in World Cup semi final, having improvement in its fielding.

    Talking to media here, Raja said that wining test series and lead in ODI against New Zealand is good sign for Pakistan despite of past controversies.

    He said that PCB has no choice besides Shahid Afridi for captain in world cup.”

  172. #172 by Mohammed Munir on February 3, 2011 - 10:23 AM

    Sahibzada Mohammed Shahid Khan Afridi sums it up after the Series Win …

    Afridi: “We have won after a long time, and it is good coming before the World Cup. What a talent Shehzad is! I thought 300+ was on, but the wicket was slow in the middle with the old ball. Hafeez is the best allrounder in my team, he’s done very well in recent times… All the fast bowlers did well. The first run out by Misbah was really good.”

    Wow … Afridi is oozing confidence all over, this is what a win can do for you.

    Ijaz &^%$@/^%$(!+?|# Butt Tera Moun Kala. 😉

  173. #173 by JAVED A. KHAN on February 3, 2011 - 10:25 AM

    Munir

    “The synthetic alcohol is produced through the hydration of ethylene or hydroxylation of ethyl sulphate to yield ethanol and regenerate the Sulfuric acid. Here, there is no fermentation process, thus, the synthetic alcohol is pure.

    Therefore, synthetic alcohol would be permissible to use and will not cause body or clothing become impure. However it is not permissible for oral intake.”

    Abdullah Muhammad al-Marbuqi al-Shāfiʿī

  174. #174 by JAVED A. KHAN on February 3, 2011 - 11:06 AM

    Munir

    There is a limit in going into extremes and finding a balance between the two. First of all why drink something which is not meant to be? I mean I am talking about perfumes made from synthetic alcohol, they are meant for fragrance and freshness of your dress code and attire.

    I understand the point about mouthwash that contains the same synthetic alcohol, people don’t want to put it in their mouth. In any case now a days there is alcohol free mouthwash available everywhere.

    As regards fermentation, don’t we eat bread made from yeast? “Khameeri Roti” The dough gets fermented because of yeast, but when it is cooked, it leaves no trace of any alcohol in it.

    Similarly, in vinegar there are six known basic vinegar and in all of them the intoxicating factors are destroyed by the microbial process of oxidation hence it becomes permissible to eat. Except in the wine vinegar which is produced from Burgandy wine and other wines. It retains a ruby color and wine like flavor. It is used in Oil-Vinegar Dressing and gourmet cooking and condiments. Whereas the others are typically distilled vinegars which contains 95% of water and rest is acetic acid as minor constituents, which we are using since centuries.

    As regards getting intoxicated, if you eat a lot of dates, very sweet mangoes, apples, grapes etc., even yummy desserts in huge quantities could lead to a certain degree of intoxication ( I never drink, so I have no idea how the effect of drunkenness comes into effect) this is what people have reported. But, certainly you get lazy, drowsy and like to sleep as your blood sugar level goes up. So, eating these goodies in moderation keeps one away from the effect of intoxication. The result is probably because these fruits start getting fermented in our own stomach and cause similar effect may be to a lesser degree. Therefore, eating in moderation is recommended.

    I am not sure where, but I have certainly read that among the miracles of God, one of them is about the production of milk in animals bodies such as cows, buffaloes etc., when they eat huge quantities of grass, hay etc., it starts fermenting in their bodies – the fermentation is much more than what humans can produce – and yet, from the same stomach milk is produced and i t is separated internally from the Nijasat and we all drink milk which is pure and halal.

    I think one should not impose on oneself the things which God has made halal for us and we call it or consider it as haram. I am not talking of synthetic alcohol here, but in general. Or, to go an extra step in trying to be more careful whereas, according to sunnah it is not necessary. For e.g., there is one Muslim community they don’t eat fish unless they find a live fish and slaughter it just like other animals are slaughtered. I am talking of F I S H and not shrimps, prawns, lobsters, crabs, clam chowder, octopus, ink fish, or any other shell fish which – if one doesn’t like it, doesn’t need to eat it.

  175. #175 by JAVED A. KHAN on February 3, 2011 - 11:11 AM

    “Ijaz &^%$@/^%$(!+?|# Butt Tera Moun Kala.” 😉

    Tay Chittar Coat Wee Kala.

  176. #176 by newguy on February 3, 2011 - 2:00 PM

    Saagat,

    You did not make any point in order for me to miss it. Everything you said has already been said by some writers and I found them pointless because they did not offer worthy alternatives. Do you have any suggestions for improvements? What is the format you will suggest and how will that improve competitiveness?

    You ask:

    “For Canada to upset Pakistan, they would have to beat ALL the other minnows and Pakistan, and and hope that Pakistan lose to all the major teams.”

    That is the game. If they want to win and qualify for knockout they have to beat the heavyweights. If not they participate, get some exposure, and more importantly ICC hopes that people will get interested in such countries by participation and they can promote games. OR as someone else said ICC simply wants to make money. Either way, people criticizing without offering worthy alternatives are no better than ICC in my view.

    As for me I would eliminate the minnows completely as countries like Canada will never become competent at Cricket, the reason being there is no indigenous growth for the game. I would make only the test playing nations play in WC in a super eight or league format consisting of two leagues then go to semi final. That way you will get your wish of all matches having some importance.

    But then again, would you want Olympic committee to leave out teams that never win a medal out of participating? because the games they participate is a waste of time? How about FIFA leaving out minnows and cutting out Football teams into only 16 top teams.

    I think WC has to be different than the 5 match and seven match ODI series as well as the mundane ICC events like Champions Trophy and Asia Cup. That is why people like to see other countries like Ireland, Kenya, and Canada play. They offer variety regardless of the outcome of the game. At the same time you do not want Ireland beating Pakistan when they had a bad day and then proceeding to super sixes where they can’t compete.

    No matter how you cut it, there will always be some games that are there for the fun part, think of it like a super eights when top teams are playing and consider the games against minnows as warm up games or even fun. This is the positive way to think rather than calling it a waste.

  177. #177 by newguy on February 3, 2011 - 2:13 PM

    Once again brilliant performance from Pakistan and congratulations for the series win.

    No matter what the quality of NZ team, they are still playing at home where they know the grounds and conditions well, so you expect them to be better than their show against Bangladesh and India. Besides Pakistan is looking like coming together as a team and many of the batsmen are running into some sort of form, which can only improve in the sub continent conditions.

    Pakistan will be a contender in my opinion in WC. As of now a lot of pundits from England, Australia, and South Africa are not including Pakistan in their WC contenders, while they place their own teams above. This is really silly in my view, first of all England is having a pathetic show against Australia, and South Africa barely managed to beat an under strength Indian team in their backyard. How are they going to be superior to Pakistan which has several genuine and dangerous match winners.

    I hope we get an exciting India vs. Pakistan game in the knockout, with a thrilling India win of course 🙂 I am sure you guys want it too, with the opposite result 🙂 Let’s hope for it.

  178. #178 by JAVED A. KHAN on February 3, 2011 - 3:08 PM

    newguy

    I haven’t yet checked the WC schedule so I have no clue as to which side is in which group and who will play against whom in the KO. Ideally, if it is a India vs. Pakistan final just like the first T20 WC then there is nothing like it. Both teams play with a lot of emotions. Obviously, India has advantage over Pakistan not only because of home ground and home crowd but, their batting is better than Pakistan. Pakistan may have had the edge if those two suttay baaz (Aamir & Asif) have been in the team. Without them, the bowling is not the same. As regards batting, on paper they have depth like Umar Akmal, Afridi and Abdul Razzaq but, you hae seen them today and b4 that also, they are lacking in consistency. And Misbah is consistent in playing with a dead bat and scoring not more than 56 runs per 100 balls just like he plays test cricket.

    I am sure now Butt & Cos., must have decided on appointing Afridi as captain of the team for the WC. But, you never know Butt. He is so full of surprises. What else do you expect from an eccentric, old man with brains 2-3 feet below the average height.

  179. #179 by khansahab on February 3, 2011 - 5:48 PM

    Shahid Afridi as captain for WC

    Ejaz Butt, the beleaguered chairman of Pakistan cricket board is returning from New Zealand later tonight and is expected to announce the captain for cricket world cup within next 24 hours. It is now believed that Shahid Afridi will be retained as captain for world Cup.
    According to sources, Chairman had one-to-one meetings with Misbah-ul-Haq and Shahid Afridi, despite marathon discussions over the much debated issue with Coach Waqar Younis and some senior cricketers including Shoaib Akhtar and Younis Khan.
    “After discussing all options with team management and senior players in New Zealand, the chairman has decided to retain Shahid Afridi as captain for cricket world cup commencing from 19th February,” said a source.
    The source added that chairman PCB was firm to announce Misbah as captain for the mega-event, but his meetings with few seniors’ forces him to change his mind.
    Some seniors were not willing to have Misbah as captain for the world cup, and that was the only point that forced Ejaz Butt to change his mind, not the team’s victory in One Day series,” said the source.

  180. #180 by khansahab on February 3, 2011 - 5:49 PM

    Imran Khan backs India to lift World Cup

    Former Pakistan captain Imran Khan feels India is the favourite to win the upcoming World Cup.

    Khan, who led Pakistan to a World Cup triumph in 1992, says “India stands the best chance” because of its depth in both batting and bowling.

    Conditions are also expected to help India, which plays five of its six league fixtures at home in the 14—nation tournament which begins on Feb. 19.

    India will co-host the tournament with Sri Lanka and Bangladesh.

  181. #181 by Sagaat on February 3, 2011 - 6:20 PM

    Newguy,

    The alternative could have been to have the semi-finals after the group stage. That way two teams from each group would have qualified, and all the matches would have been purposeful. I realize that some matches are for fun, but 56 matches matches will be played before the quarterfinals and most major teams will have nothing to play for. Then the quarterfinals will be 4, semi-finals will be, 2, and the final 1– 7 matches altogether. This sounds like a champions trophy except that the teams would practice for 56 matches before the champions trophy. If there is nothing to play for, then there is no fun watching. But you are right, the crowds will be there in India. After all, its the world cup. Maybe that is why it has been designed that way.

  182. #182 by khansahab on February 3, 2011 - 7:26 PM

    Pakistan’s victory has proved that firstly, Afridi is a good captain and can unite the team and secondly, that Pakistan can beat a minnow team without many problems.

    It seems Pakistan’s worries in the WC will be the inconsistent form of Umar Gul, Sohail Tanvir and Wahab Riaz. On the batting front there will be expectations from Misbah but he will probably fail to deliver.

    Waqar Younis needs to work on ensuring that Pakistani fast bowlers don’t let the opposition score 250+. In almost every match of this series NZ has scored around 230-240.

  183. #183 by khansahab on February 3, 2011 - 11:12 PM

    Munir sahab

    You have elicited disagreement on two points. The first in relation to alcoholism is one where I have made my position clear. I do not consider alcohol consumption to be moral or beneficial. If I did I would consume it myself. We are Muslims by upbringing and not necessarily by choice. In order to discuss religion amongst each other we do not need to go beyond what the principles of religion are. We say merely that one should not drink because it is prohibited. We explain the “sin” of drinking and quote from the Quran and the Hadith. Yet, we do not consider the rationale for why an act is a sin.

    If you were promoting Islam to a non-believer, you would not stop after saying that one should not drink. The non-believer will want to know why Islam is against the act of drinking. When that happens you will have to explain the rationale. You will have to explain my point that it is the danger of succumbing to excess which may lead to commission of morally bad acts, which is the possibility Islam seeks to circumvent. So, one way or the other, my rationale embodies the true spirit of why alcohol is forbidden. The non-believer will question why drinking in moderation is forbidden.

    Your second point is that I am wrong religion can vary from state to state. However, religion does vary from state to state. There is a “common morality” the interpretation of which is uniform across the world. This includes but is not limited to, moral standards such as, one should not lie, cheat, kill, hurt etc. Similarly, for argument’s sake one can say the religion is common too. So Islam has principles about belief in God, belief in the Prophet (SAW) etc that are acknowledged and adhered to in every Muslim country. If this is your point then I cannot disagree. However, you will have to credit the common morality as well, as there are common moral standards that are present in every country, race and religion. I am placing this argument before you to counter your point that moral standards vary from country to country but religious standards do not.

    If religion does not vary then please explain the following for me:

    – Why Pakistan’s Constitution declares that the Head of the Government should be a Muslim, but the Turkish Constitution does not. Who follows the correct Islam?

    – Why is Malaysia secular but Pakistan and Saudi, Islamist. Who follows Islam?

    – Why does Saudi celebrate Eid on one day and Pakistanis on another day. Which one follows Islam?

    – Why is Iran a Shia country and Pakistan a Sunni country? Which is the real Islam?

    – Why is there a Deobandi school of thought and a Berelvi school of thought. Why do their teachings conflict? And why does performance of Islamic rituals/acts differ according to sub- schools of thought like Hanafi etc?

    – Why does a country like Iran have such a “mazaar culture” where people pay tribute to saints believing their prayers will be answered, but other countries where this culture is seen less so? Why the division in the approach amongst Muslims about asking saints for wishes to be fulfilled?

    This is what I mean when I say that religious standards vary too from area to area, country to country.

  184. #184 by JAVED A. KHAN on February 4, 2011 - 7:04 PM

    So finally Afridi has been selected as captain for the WC and that ends the speculation created by Butt & co.

    khansahab pls email me the link for the admin. page

    Thanks

  185. #185 by khansahab on February 4, 2011 - 10:39 PM

    Munir sahab

    You asked about that girl on Pakistani TV whose sexy appearance and attitude has caused a stir.

    I would blame both, that girl and that guy too. It is clear from her reaction that he was surprised he would start talking dirty with her. This girl speaks broken Urdu and I think when she was saying, “Aur, aur, aur” she was not necessarily fishing for compliments, maybe just asking the guy to say something regarding the subject matter of the show.

    However, any girl who looks and dresses like that will invite sexual comments and attention in any part of the world.

    Strangely enough this news has caused a stir in the UK, the sexy wife of the Speaker of Parliament has done a photoshoot:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1353272/Sally-Bercow-posing-sheet-reveals-Speaker-husband-Johns-bedroom-secrets.html

  186. #186 by khansahab on February 4, 2011 - 10:41 PM

    I thought this news about Afridi being confirmed as captain may have warranted a new thread, but I am so fed up of PCB politics and Ijaz Butt that I have lost the will to write.

  187. #187 by khansahab on February 4, 2011 - 11:07 PM

    Pakistan cricketers to be charged over alleged match fixing

    The three leading Pakistan players at the centre of the match fixing row last summer were today told they would face criminal charges in a British court, becoming high-profile test cases for legislation introduced to prevent cheating at gambling.

    The former Test captain Salman Butt, fast bowler Mohammad Asif and the teenage sensation Mohammad Amir were informed that extradition orders would be sought if they did not return to London voluntarily, as they promised when they returned to Pakistan last September.

    The trio will also hear from an International Cricket Council tribunal in Qatar tomorrow whether they face lengthy or even life bans under its regulatory code.

    They must return to London next month to face charges of conspiracy to obtain and accept corrupt payments and also conspiracy to cheat. The charges, which carry maximum jail sentences of seven years and two years respectively, also apply to the alleged fixer, Mazhar Majeed. They all previously denied wrongdoing.

    Majeed, who acted as an agent to several Pakistan players including Butt, was alleged by the News of the World to have accepted payment in return for ordering no balls to be bowled at specific points.

    The offence of conspiracy to cheat, introduced under the 2005 Gambling Act, is untested. A parallel case, involving the former Essex bowler Mervyn Westfield, could be the first to reach trial. Westfield, who faces the same charges as the Pakistan trio but without the conspiracy element, is scheduled to appear in court again next week.

    Simon Clements, head of the Crown Prosecution Service’s special crime division, said: “These charges relate to allegations that Mr Majeed accepted money from a third party to arrange for the players to bowl ‘no balls’ on 26 and 27 August 2010, during Pakistan’s fourth Test at Lord’s.” He said the CPS had worked closely with the police. “We are satisfied there is sufficient evidence for a realistic prospect of conviction and it is in the public interest to prosecute.”

    Majeed was alleged to have accepted £150,000 from reporters posing as frontmen for a Far East gambling cartel and allegedly stated when the three no-balls would be bowled. His claims appeared to be borne out on the second day of the Test, when they were delivered as predicted.

    The four men will appear before the City of Westminster magistrates court on 17 March, but the case is unlikely to reach a full trial for over a year.

  188. #188 by khansahab on February 5, 2011 - 3:09 PM

    BREAKING NEWS

    Salman Butt banned for 10 years by ICC (will never play again), Mohammad Asif for 7 years (will never play again) and Aamer for 5 years.

  189. #189 by khansahab on February 5, 2011 - 3:15 PM

    I have just read that Butt and Asif’s sentences are suspended for 5 and 2 years respectively which means effectively they are only banned for 5 years, but if they are ever found guilty by ICC again they will get the suspended sentence over and above their sanction.

    Salman Butt gets ineligibility for 10 years which means he cannot be selected for an ICC event for 5 years, but after 5 years he can play domestic cricket.

  190. #190 by khansahab on February 6, 2011 - 11:22 AM

    Mohammad Aamer’s reaction after his ban:

    He does not look like an innocent 18 year old. Firstly I am sure he is 20 or over. Secondly, he sounds fairly mature and a person of his mindset should be able to distinguish between good and bad.

    I am ashamed that this reporter is holding Aamer out to be some kind of hero and how thousands of Pakistanis are claiming Aamer is still a hero for them. Aamer is an adult and made an adult decision to cheat and by doing that he has taken part in destroying his country’s reputation internationally.

    Pakistanis must not let these three cheats live in Pakistan.

  191. #191 by JAVED A. KHAN on February 6, 2011 - 3:07 PM

    khansahab

    I agree with you that Aamir should not be let loose because of his so-called AGE. An 18 year old is legally considered an adult and that is it. Whether he was lured by Salman Butt or Asif or he has acted on his own, an adult is an adult, period.

    It is good that they have been banned because, they have not only done something bad for themselves but, they have damaged the name of the country. I AM PLEASED THAT THEY GOT PUNISHED. Others should take note of this and stay away from doing illegal activities.

    About the last or the final match that Pakistan lost, in my opinion it is because of poor bowling especially from Sohail Tanvir. They should once again consider on how to included Tanvir Ahmad in the team.

    This man Naseen Rajput who interviewed Aamir is very stupid, he is trying to portray Aamir as a hero. This is Pakistan and the typical Paindoo mentality that a cheat is being promoted as a hero. I remember when Asif was held in Dubai jail, one of the senator’s from Pakistan said, that Asif is our celebrity and we MUST bring him back. Once a thief, always a thief and once an addict, always an addict, Asif has not stopped from cheating and or, using drugs. Aamir is acting innocent by saying for two no balls 5 years ban is very harsh. It is not just 2 no balls but, it is about match fixing, spot fixing and about taking money from the bookies. A crime is a crime. Now he should remember this for the rest of his life and tie a knot to his knees and not bowl no balls – but, not get involved in illegal activities. If he was careful then he wouldn’t have been standing there today and acting innocent. All this act that he is putting up now along with that idiot Rajput guy is shameless and hollow.

  192. #192 by khansahab on February 6, 2011 - 3:19 PM

    We have a new thread

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