1. #1 by JAVED A. KHAN on September 29, 2008 - 7:48 AM


    I think its good that you have created this new page to discuss religion, as we have been discussing religion, existence of God, the purpose of life and comparing religion with science etc. etc., and to have an exclusive page is something that we really need for our bloggers. Because, there might be a few who may not want to see or mix religion with cricket, can write their views here.

    If a handful of people (not “hand picked” as Yousuf Raza Gillani Pakistan’s current PM said) try to create terror in the name of religion or misinterpret the words or verses of the holy books and try to convince the uneducated masses to wage a war against the so-called infidels is the worst thing to do. Because NO religion preaches violence and terror.

    As a Muslim and with whatever knowledge that I have I would like to share and talk about Islam and I will be very happy to see others writing their views in the light of their own religion or from their point of view as they see it. This will be an opportunity for us not only to communicate but, also to clear the doubts and misunderstandings that have been created by these people and also by the Western media. Islam is derived from the Arabic root “Salema”: peace, purity, submission and obedience. In the religious sense, Islam means submission to God, service to humanity and mankind.

    Most of the uneducated and even a few educated but, conservative type of people believe that a common man, even if he is well educated is not competent enough to discuss religion. Only the scholars or men in authority (the Mullahs) have the right to talk about, because, we might mislead others? This is absurd, because none of these people especially the Mullah types are able to interpret the meanings correctly. And sometimes they interpret it the way they want it. And that is, because of the fact that Qur’an is in Arabic which is a foreign as well as a difficult language to master for non-Arabs.

    The other thing is some of the verses are mystical and even hard for the Arabs to understand the true meaning behind it, and it needs indepth analysis through Hadith, before making any interpretation especially according to one’s own perception.

    This comment might become too long and my objective was to thank khansahab for adding this page to the blog, as I was also feeling the same way as him. Therefore, to keep this first comment short, I will express my views more in detail in my next comment. But, in the meantime if anyone has any question, please feel free to ask.

  2. #2 by Varun Suri on September 29, 2008 - 11:26 PM


    Jay Jay Shiv Shankar
    Kantaa Lage Na Kankar
    Jo Pyaalaa Tere Naam Kaa Piyaa!!!!!!!!!


    Well this is what you think of your Religion when there is no Organisation or a Central Authority giving instructions and perhaps that is the reason why i am an AGNOSTIC on the path to become an ATHEIST!!!!

    Spent 1/3rd life in believing in him/her, Thought instead of searching for him/her anywhere and everywhere better do few things in life which maybe i won’t be able to do in After-Life or on Judgement day for that matter!

  3. #3 by khansahab on October 6, 2008 - 5:48 PM

    Can someone tell me why the Shia-Sunni conflict in Pakistan is so intense? There has been a suicide bombing at the house of a Shia minister recently in Punjab.

    Shias and Sunnis are everywhere but why is it in Pakistan that they are hellbent on killing each other?

  4. #4 by Mohammed Munir on October 9, 2008 - 8:03 AM

    Khan Sahab,

    A very good point raised and I totally agree that it’s such an unfortunate situation that there are millions of Shias and Sunnis all over the world, including Iran, Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, GCC, India, Europe and USA but of all the places they are fighting and killing each others only in Pakistan.

    Something is seriously wrong here 😦

  5. #5 by JAVED A. KHAN on October 9, 2008 - 1:43 PM


    You don’t have to go out to Mandir, Masjid, Girja or Gurdwara in search of Him.

    Whatever I will write here will be about how “we” as Muslims believe in Allah and how we perceive Him.

    First of all Islam is not Arab. It is not a religion. It is not a culture. It is not mosques or minarets or buildings. It is not the glorious of our past. You might call it the science of being human. It is based on two things: Worship of Allah and generosity towards your fellow men.

    The God in Islam is not a concept, not a divine authority figure, not a father in the sky. Allah is Reality itself. The one Who created everything and continues to do so and Who supports and sustains everything. Allah, there is no God but Him, the Living, the self subsistent. Drowsiness does not seize Him nor does sleep. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth. (2 : 255)

    Scientists have tried to explain everything away by breaking it all down into component parts. Knowing what makes up an eye has nothing to do with the reality of vision. Don’t be among those who are fooled when they see anything unusual they call it a miracle. Every time you look is a miracle, isn’t it?. All life is like that and our existence itself is a miracle. The revelation of Qur’an is the biggest miracle. Then why do we have to be amazed by other miracles?

    More latersssssssssssssssssssssss….. g2g

  6. #6 by khansahab on October 10, 2008 - 12:34 AM

    Opening the Book

    Renuka Narayanan, Hindustan Times

    Tere zameer pe jab tak na ho nuzool-e-kitab Girah kusha hai na Razi na sahebe Kashshaf (Until this Book has revealed itself to your heart, Not even Razi or Kashshaf [the first two commentators of the Quran] can make you understand) — Allama Iqbal.

    Terms like kafir (unbeliever), mushrik (idol-worshipper), jihad (to strive) and qital (killing in war), cited by several medieval invaders, buried the fact that well before their invasions, Arab Muslims had peaceful trade contacts with India’s long coasts. Jains and Hindus reportedly even built mosques for them. Today, when these words, through the acts perpetrated in their name, have demonised Islam worldwide, peaceful and learned Muslim clerics and commentators keep trying to explain that jihad signifies ‘striving’ to become a good human being.

    To try and understand what the Holy Quran actually means by these terms, I consulted Sadaquat Hussain Qasmi, a scholar in classical Arabic, graduate of the Falahi Madrasa in Azamgarh, UP, and of the universities of Dar-ul-Uloom in Deoband and Jamia Millia Islamia in New Delhi. (Qasmi, 35, has worked as a TV producer and film director for the last 10 years).

    Qital: The Holy Quran has Makkah Verses, spanning the first 13 years of the Messenger of Allah’s prophecy and Medina Verses spanning the next ten years, after the Hegira (departure to Medina in 622 CE). Many of the so-called jihad verses cited are from the Medina section. But, says Qasmi, such verses are about qital (literally fighting only in the course of war, moreover, war between two rulers/States/establishments) and not about jihad (which is ‘struggle’, an evolutionary journey that even incudes qital when required).

    However, no individual or private group is authorised by the Quran to commit acts of violence or war even against those who have harmed them directly or indirectly. Yes, Surah Tauba 9:13 says: Ala tuqatiluna qauman nakasu Aimaanahum… (Will ye not fight people Who violated their oaths…) Says part of footnote 1261 in a Mecca edition of the Quran:

    ‘An appeal is made to the Muslims on various grounds: 1. The shameless disregard of treaties by the enemy.

    2. The underhand plots to discredit the Holy Prophet, and turn him out of Medina as he had been turned out of Makkah. 3. The aggressive taken by the Quraish and their confederates in Medina after the Treaty of Hudaibia (February 628 CE).’ 9:14 says next: But fight them, And Allah will punish them By your hands And disgrace them, Help you to victory over them and Heal the breasts of Believers. Footnote 1262 says: “Heal the breasts of Believers: wounds that they may have sustained from the assaults, taunts and cruelty of the enemy.”

    Both these ayats (Quranic verses) and their footnotes refer to history as it happened to the Prophet’s followers in the Prophet’s lifetime. Long-term, they specify qital as a process of war between two declared enemies who have even signed a political treaty. Qatilu here signifies hostile Makkans and the Munafiqin, the Hypocrites of Medina, who pretended friendship with the Prophet’s followers but were secretly allied with the (then) enemy Makkans.

    Whereas in the Quran they express God’s anger with those people, unfortunately, these verses are used to inspire terrorists today.

    Ayat 16 of the same surah and Surah al-Ankabut (The Spider) 29:1-2 reinforce this point. n Jihad: Says Surah Al-Furqan 25:51-52: Had it been our will We could have sent a warner to every town Therefore, listen not To the Unbelievers, but strive Against them with the utmost Strenuousness (with the Quran)/ Wa jahid hum bihi jihadan kabira…

    This is where the first mention of jihad appears in the Quran, now cited by militants as a Divine commandment. But having sent His prophet with His message, God says, now spread My message through peaceful and exemplary conduct. It was through this attitude that the Makkan enemies of the Prophet were won over. “Islam’s decline really began when some Muslims mistook the pristine meaning of the Quran’s revelation and used its words to conquer lands instead of hearts as the Prophet had done with the Makkans,” says Qasmi.

    Kafir: In Arabic, kufr, meaning ‘to conceal the truth’, is used for a farmer who ‘hides’ seeds in the ground. Also look at Surah al Baqarah 2:146. It refers to those Arabs who knew the Prophet and his message as well as they knew their own sons but concealed the fact that they knew, because it did not suit their commercial or political interests in those times to honourably acknowledge him. ‘Unbelievers’ does not mean Hindus, declares Qasmi.

    Surah Insaan or Dahr (Time) 76:3 says: Inna hadaina hu-s-sabeela Imma shaakiraun wa’imma kafura (We showed him the way Whether he be grateful Or ungrateful).

    The meaning of kafir is made clear here: those ungrateful for God’s gifts. By this ayat, no one is a believer or unbeliever by birth. Kafir is an adjective, denoting the nature of a person. “Even an outwardly practising Muslim who is ungrateful is technically a kafir in the Quranic sense,” says Qasmi, for this deep adjectival import of kafura is often not fully understood.

    Hindus are not Mushrikeen: Surah Tauba 9:5 says: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them, beleaguer them and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war).

    The context: Makkah is won, with a peaceful entry accorded to the Prophet and his followers. But there remain some antagonistic Arabs who are still idol-worshippers in the 7th century CE Arab sense (also see Surah Zumar 39:3). But these ‘Mushrikeen-e-Arab’ had no revealed text, like Hindus have the Vedas, that sees God as the One Truth (Satyam, meaning al Haq, one of the 99 Names of Allah). Muslims in general don’t know this vital difference, nor is it understood and explained by many Muslims clerics, says Qasmi, whereas this realisation would help many.

  7. #7 by JAVED A. KHAN on October 10, 2008 - 4:22 AM


    Apparently Qasmi’s interpretation seems to be good. It certainly looks like a new way explaining the verses and the concepts of Qu’ran. But it needs an in-depth study and analysis of his interpretation to view and compare it in light of what exactly the views of other Ulma-e-deen are. I must give credit to this lady Renuka Narayanan, she did a good research and presented a very unbiased view.

    Atheists and humanists ask: If God exists, why doesn’t He show Himself? The answer is, God does not represent some finite, material energy. Our limited ability to experiment and conceptualize is incapable of defining Him. Like I wrote above: “The God in Islam is not a concept, not a divine authority figure, not a father in the sky. Allah is Reality itself.”

    Belief in the existence of God is a matter of the heart, although science may prove Him to be the prime and ultimate cause and thus indirectly reinforce the belief of the heart. Faith is to believe what we do not see and the reward of this faith is what we believe.

    Mankind passes its life in ignorance and unknowing, not realizing that the human physical make-up cannot lead a person to realities or that the five senses mislead him at every point The only instruments which can lead man to realities are reason, thought, and precision.

  8. #8 by Shah on October 28, 2008 - 3:30 PM

    Javed & Khansahab

    Must say it is a relieve finally to see a website which is discussing Islam without any dogmas and fanaticism.Religion is not sacred and pious in a way that we keep Quran wrapped up and close on the top shelf and only open it during the month of Ramadan.

    Religion gives us values as a human being .

    Fasting is for my own good ,but than it is left to me to judge if in case I am sick would I be able to manage to be hungry for 12 hours.
    Unfortunately instead of judging such things on our own we keep running to a maulvi.Now even if someone asks me regarding should I fast today or not?Who am I to say no.
    Allah has ordered ,you are to follow.

    In Islam there are two approaches to it on following:

    1.Mans approach to God
    2.Gods approach to man

    You would be surprised ,our Creator so much want us to recognise HIM ,to realise HIM and to approach HIM.That he has sent us five books and a chain of prophets .

    Mans approach to God is sufisim,how a human percieve and approach HIM and built a relation with him.

    Gods approach to man is to follow the principals as laid in the book.How Allah wants to be remembered and followed.

    Thus you find this difference in followers of Islam .It is just the way we approach.

    Sufism is more liberal and creative.It is a way of love with your CREATOR.Thus you find sufi poetry full of pain and pangs of separation.Death in Sufism is considered as a wedding because at last the lover is recieved by the Creator.
    That is why death of sufi saints is celebrated like an “URS” and their grave is decorated with garlands.

    Please note Quran is a prescribed text book and Shariat laws are to be observed .
    Shariat is not only the name of chopping off hands and feet of people.But Shariat is a line drawn .DO NOT TRESSPASS INTENTIONALLY.
    If you do than repent and always remember
    God is most Gracious and Merciful.
    He is most BEAUTIFUL as well.
    Creator is beautiful,
    ISLAM IS UNIQUE in a way that in other religions human have created a shape and a form but
    Light is energy and purest form of energy

    If we study physics and quantom theory of relativity after all we understand why Physicists are so convinced of GOD.

    I like to keep it simple,so

    KNOW THY SELF.In only knowing ones self ,one comes to realise HIM.

    Your debate is intellectual .I appreciate it.Before I comment on your thoughts I wanted to give some introduction about how I percieve Islam.


  9. #9 by JAVED A. KHAN on October 28, 2008 - 4:06 PM


    Its good to see that you have mentioned about LIGHT and without mentioning the name of the Surah NOOR, you have hinted at the verse by saying LIGHT UPON LIGHT (Allah is the Light) In our previous debate on religion on the cricket page, I have mentioned this and I would like to repeat it again here because this is a more apt forum for religion and thats the reason this page has been created for discussion.

    The Qura’an is full of descriptions which corresponds to them and I would like to quote the English translation of the Surah Noor: “God is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The likeness of His light is a niche wherein is a lamp, the lamp in a glass, the glass as if it were a glittering star, kindled from a blessed tree, an olive which is neither of the East nor the West whose oil would practically shine even if no fire touched it. Light upon light. God guides to His light whomever He will” (24:35) Sura Noor
    If you ask an uneducated Mullah to translate or explain the meaning of the above verse, he would ramble and blab and provide a mediocre explanation according to his limited knowledge and education. A more scientific and meaningful explanation of the above verse which an Astrophysicist would express, explain and substantiate his views is in the words of Ayesha Abdur Rahman Al Tarjumana, which is:

    “The oil must be the photons which do not divide into particle/anti-particle (East/West). When two electrons come near each other, one of them gives off a photon which is absorbed by the other electron. The two electrons have not touched, but the unit of electromagnetic energy is produced. Fire has not touched it. The interconnectedness of the reactions in the electromagnetic field is described by the picture of the lamp in the niche and the lamp in the glass.”

    There are also some oaths at the beginning of some of the earlier verses in the Qura’an which seem to give a ravishing description of the activity of the subatomic world. This is, of course only one of the many levels which exist in every verse of the Qura’an).

    Pay attention to the following verses I am quoting below and see how the scientific meaning is derived from it and how it helped some of the scientists who have acknowledged it as a great break through in the development of science and technology:

    “By the scatters scattering, by those carrying a heavy burden, by those running and flowing easily, by those who subdivide a matter” (ref. 51)

    Surely one aspect of these verses is the description of the subatomic world. First, we have the particles scattering and meeting and the cascade of collision, and decay which arises as cosmic rays and other particles hit the earth’s atmosphere. This is true of high-energy collisions, and it is also true of the photo-electric effect when the photons of ultra-violet light knock electrons out of metal surfaces.

    “Those carrying a heavy burden” are the nuclear particles with their incredible mass. Almost the entire mass of the atom is condensed in the nucleus and it is fantastically dense. The photons run easily being light, and high energy particles subdivide others. Amazing isn’t it?

    The Qura’an further says:

    “By the released ones in succession, then raging violently, and those who scatter in open propagation, and by those who split into parts, and by those casting a reminder in excuse or warning.” (Qura’an 77)

    Again we have a picture of the activity of the sub-atomic world. Particles released in strong nuclear interactions have tremendous energy. Particles scatter in open propagation as they form their cascade of increasing secondary particles, and some of them split up. Once again, amazing isn’t it?
    AND AGAIN: “By those who extract completely, by those who move briskly, by those who swim along and float, by those who go ahead suddenly, by those who manage an affair”. (Qura’an 79)

    So we have a whole range of the types of interacting forces. Furthermore, it speaks of ‘heavens with all its tracks’ (Qura’an 51) This is like the picture of the activity of the patterns of behavior in the interaction of these particles. All we see are their tracks, their traces, their effects.

    Not only the scientists but the Sufis through their mysticism have talked about the same things using a different terminology or words. Ibn-al-Arabi, the renowned scholar and a Sufi, has also quoted the Quranic verses and he said:

    The singularity belonged to the sea of before-time, gatherdness to the sea of after-time, and duality to the inter-space of man.

    About the Universe, its expansion and the day it will come to a crunch, as it is contained in the Qura’an not once, but in so many verses:

    “Faatir us Samawadi wal Aaradi” We exploded the Heavens and the Earth. (Thats reference to the Big Bang Theory.)

    “He increases, creation as He wills” (35:1) (That is the Universe is expanding)

    “Upon the day when heaven spins dizzily and the mountains are in motion “(52:9-10) (Thats about the Big Crunch.)

    “When the stars shall be utterly extinguished and obliterated, when the heaven shall be split, when the mountains shall be scattered.” (77:8-10)

    “When the sun shall be darkened, when the stars shall be thrown down, when the mountains shall be set moving. “(81:1-3)

    This is the picture of the Last Day, when all is obliterated. Then God will bring everyone back at the Gathering. He will recreate everyone, as the black hole is finally an emitter of endless energy in the form of gamma rays.

    Tawhid (unification) is the singularity. All vanishes into that singularity, and at that point, all becomes one. Unity is total, like a vast ocean. Like the moth going around the flame of the candle and when you enter the flame, you are the flame and your identity vanishes.

    The singularity remains and it is something which cannot be viewed from the outside. It is only when you pass the event-horizon and enter it, that it becomes perceivable. Then you are it, so what is there to perceive? Who remains who is perceiving?

  10. #10 by Shah on October 28, 2008 - 7:29 PM

    What art though?and how dare you quoted surrah Noor before me.I cannot forgive this.
    I was at work so I thought after going home I will quote from Quran so that I do not quote wrong.These are my favourite Ayaat.But you did it before me.
    (intellectual grudge is not good for my skin so you are forgiven)

    Regarding your theories of physics,I am a bit taken a back.I thought it is too complex to discuss.

    Beautiful cannot appreciate enough your approach to religion.To understand and to contemplate and to apply rationale and to live it is TRUE ISLAM.

    So all muslims are not just offering Namaz like a drill some are contemplating and exploring.
    Thank you for hosting this webpage and hope like minded people will join in.

    I would like to point out when we study Quran with the help of science,if science turns out to be wrong it does not mean Quran is wrong.

    Quran is a timeless book.It is we the human being who tried to apply science to explore Quran.

    Thank you for the beautiful exploration of Surrah Noor.

  11. #11 by Shah on October 28, 2008 - 9:02 PM

    ALLAH describes Himself in Surrah Noor as my friend Javed has qouted above.These ayaat are special one.The more I contemplate on these ,the more I am consumed .In one of my meditations on these verses,i felt peace and everything was white yet there was nothing and in that whiteness I saw white shooting stars and than the fireworks all white.It was so beautiful.
    I tried to make a painting of it but failed now I tried to get different shades of white but you have to mix different mediums and than the texture spoils the image.
    This is how closely I can explain it.Allah cannot be touched but only by Inspiration and perception.
    But SURRAH NOOR is so special,I feel Allah has described Himself.
    is another one such Ayat in which we are told Allah is the light of Heaven and the Earth.This Ayat is also the part of Surrah Noor .
    Self emitting light……yet no object.ENERGY can neither be created nor destroyed.
    Light is actually a form of energy .So I percieve Allah is a light.Noor is one of His Names.

    When we read surrah , ONENESS
    Say :God is One ,the Eternal God.He begot none,nor was He begotten.None is equal to Him”

    He begot none nor was He begotten it is so close to energy can neither be created nor distroyed.


    This is how Sufi percieve Allah.This light is very special .The more you polish your heart with ziker the more this light glows in your heart and it glows on your face .

    Again in Quran this light is emphasised that rightful one will be guided by this light and there faces will be glowing with light.

    In the same surrah it is further said,”His light is further found in temples which God has sanctioned to be built for the remembrance of His name.In them morning and evening,His praise is sung by men whom neither trade nor profit can divert from remembering Him,from offering prayers,or from giving alms……”

    HIS LIGHT IS FURTHER FOUND IN TEMPLES,please note the word used is not mosques is Temples.

    From temples I understand the Cinigogs of Jews and The Churches of Christians and of course the mosques.

    So anyone who is consumed by the light and remembrance of God is one practice which guides a man towards the source The Creator.Light is also the books of God and the prophets because it is knowledge .

    Ignorance is darkness and Illumination and realisation of Creator is Light

    There are so many interpretations of these Ayyat.
    I am always facinated by the church candles.In West Minister Abbey they still use chandaliers bearing candles.

    I have not visit Turkey and Egypt yet to see the mosques.
    I think Egyption mosque has a Glass Chandalier which is illuminated with candles.But the beauty of Chandlier is that the cases are made of Glass on which in beautiful calligraphy it is painted,
    ALLah is the Light of Heavens and Earth.
    Before I go I wish to add :
    Nirvana by Sidharatha or Buddha is nothing else apart from seeing this light.

    In order to look into our image we need to have Light,so when we say know thyself means see yourself in the light,know yuor self,percieve your image for when you see you will see Creator …………….

    So it is upto evryone when they are ready to see themselves.

  12. #12 by shah on October 28, 2008 - 10:35 PM

    Can we have the picture of Budha as well .The head or the starving one.If anyone fancies reading about Buddha
    I would recomend ,”HERMAN HESSE ‘s Sidhartha”

  13. #13 by farrah, k.raja on November 8, 2008 - 2:43 PM

    Sufism in Pakistan in 21st Century
    Ahmad Rafique Akhtar is a Sufi phenomenon of our times.
    You can have religious scholars ,Rumi’s poetry lovers, saint’s shrines crowded with the followers but it is extremely rare that someone in twenty first century had this genuine hunger to know God,to understand His message and than decided to live a SUFI LIFE. That is what is so unique about Professor Ahmad Rafique Akhtar.He is not only a scholar in the sense that he has read the Sufi Saints ,Quran and Hadith but he had opted to live a Sufi life. He has not become famous because he delivers lectures only but because he preaches Islam like hundreds of years ago Sufi Saints used to do. His style his decorum is modern so it is excuseable for people of his time to mistake him just as a TEACHER or Religious scholar but in essence he is a SUFI ,in the way of Sufism. He has a gift to change the making of people ,he does not do the mirracle of making you rich,young and happy but he does prescribe you the Tasbeeh (repetation of Allah’s Name) which works with your personality in such a way that the inner struggle or the strife disappears overa period of time. One finds the balance and feels at ease with ones own self.One finds the strength to standup and find a direction for ones self and claim the innerpeace and hold of desires. His command and expression in Urdu and English Language both are deep rooted and strong and so is his thought.His words are not deriven from the books only he has gained wisdom by thinking hard on religious teachings of Quran ,Hadith and Sufi Maters. His approach towards Islam is not of a blind faith only but faith convinced of the TRUTH of ONENESS OF ALLAH. He has approached Quran first as an intellectual and than as a word of God and thirdly as a scholar.His approach towards Islam is from a man towards God. His world is not a world of Mullah but try to be one with your Creator,try to know Him,Try to love Him and try to approach Him. That is what is so beautiful about him,the message ,the book “QURAN” the love,”ALLAH” is UNIVERSAL. His style is SO ORIENTAL,it is so Deep Rooted,it is so ethnic and Authentic. If anybody wants to know SUFISM and wants to meet a real sufi in twenty first century,PROFESSOR AHMED RAFIQUE IS THE one.

    “God must be the top priority of Mind and Heart”. (Prof.Ahmad Rafique AKhtar)

    I feel quite previleged to know Profesor Ahmad Rafique Akhtar.He lives near Pindi in a city called Gujar Khan.Must say in the intellectual scene of Lahore in 1995 till 2000 Professor was the only one who inspired me intllectually.I am so glad I met him.Thanks to Mr.Bilal (NCA).Soon afterwards my book was published by sang-e-meel publications and I was destined for UK.
    To live the life which I advocated in the book.Looking back no regrets,for it brought so much peace and serenity within me with time passing I am so ready to grow old and there is no better way to grow old than to follow the Sufi Path and style of living.
    The biggest challenge is in modern times people mistake the humbleness and gratitude as a synonyme for stupid.
    As long as I am satisfied with my innerself ,I do not care how people percieve me .
    This freedom is sufism.
    When I am tired all I have to do is shut out the world and go for a walk,journey is always good be it mental,spiritual or a walk in the woods for it unties many knots and brings re-conciliation in its own way.
    A student is never absent from a sufi lesson as long as the heart is present.
    Profesor Ahmed Rafique said to me ,”A good teacher will never let you fall”
    I am glad I have not one but two Teachers.As long as I can see their faces I am not afraid of the darkness or the end.

  14. #14 by farrah, k.raja on November 8, 2008 - 2:52 PM

    Does not matter what faith you belong to ;below are the names of Allah ,which were given to me by Professor to read .
    Names of Allah are actually His qualities by repeating these qualities we aspire to achieve those qualities.
    I have found slow but steady progress by repeating these names.I just repeat these names in my heart while walking down the street or going to work or watching TV.
    These are excellent to calm ones self down and get rid of negativity of our own ego and beautiful to sleep peacefully.
    Never in life again you will feel lonely or sad ,difficulties will come and pass and you will keep smiling.Now this is what I call a cure for a battered sole in materialistic world of 21 century:
    Ya Salaam,Ya Mumin ,Ya Allah hu x300
    Ya Rahman,Ya Rahim,Ya Karim x300
    Ya Wali ,Ya Nasir x300

  15. #15 by JAVED A. KHAN on November 8, 2008 - 6:10 PM


    With reference to the last para of your comment number 13, I quote it here, “A student is never absent from a Sufi lesson as long as the heart is present.” Professor Ahmed Rafique said to me, (and),”A good teacher will never let you fall.”

    If you call Sufism as a separate religion then, its another subject but, Sufism in Arabic and in Turkish has a meaning called, “Tassawuf” and in Farsi it is “Sufigari” that is what we in our language use it as Sufism.

    It is known to be the inner mystical dimension of our self and those who practice it called as Sufis and the term is not only applied for those practitioners who have attained the goals of the Sufi tradition but, there is another term that we also use is “Dervish” or Darvaish, Fakir, Wali, Pir etc., etc.

    And, I am not here to teach you or make you feel that I know more or I know better. Its just my point that how I feel about it, that I would like to narrate, rather share.

    I do not want to go into the historical details of how the Sufi culture evolved all over the world and how people consider it as a science in purifying and cleansing their heart. On the subject of heart, I will write something later. But, coming to the point of your quote, me too I used to think the same way but in different words that, “A student is never absent from a Sufi lesson as long as the heart is present.”

    This should NOT let us find an excuse in extending prayers for the Almighty. A lot of people who believe in this, say: I don’t need the “form” I need the “spirit” and the form they refer is the way we say our prayers. They say, we can pray whichever way we like and it is between me and my Allah.

    This is where they are faltering and I was faltering too. But, after meeting and discussing with a few scholars and talking to them on the subject and also by reading some stuff, I came to the conclusion that, I was wrong. The form too is needed along with the spirit.

    For example; if someone calls me and tells me that they are coming to my house and when they arrive, I greet them in my night suit pajamas, unshaved, uncombed, un-brushed etc., etc., but I am hospitable. It gives the impression that I am not giving them full respect they deserve. Likewise, if someone invites me to their place I go there in a similar way also means the same.

    When I go to my office to work, I wear Giorgio Armani suits and Swiss Bally shoes, Stephano Conti shirt and Nazerano Gaberilli silk ties or, I do the same when I go to a party, if I am over doing it, it will appear as “I am showing off” but, if I keep it simple and clean it appears as I am showing respect to my job or to the people I work with and for the people who invited me for the party.

    I cannot say that I don’t care about the material world and it means nothing to me. Because, Islam does not want me to become a parasite, Islam preaches me to keep a balance between the material world and the spiritual world. It emphasizes a lot on cleanliness and hygiene and that is one of the reasons the concept of Wudu or ablution is there.

    The reason the prayers have to be said in a particular way that is by prostrating in front of Allah (ignore the minor differences of how to and where to keep your feet or fold your hands) is to show Allah that we respect Him. Actually, Allah is not at our mercy to get respect from us, but He teaches us a way to show respect towards Him so that we learn how to respect others. Hence the form is important as much as the spirit is important.

    Although one might argue that while saying our prayers, our heart is somewhere else, like Iqbal did:

    Tera dil tou hai sanam ashna tujhay kya milay ga namaaz may

    Kabhee aye hiqeeqat-e-muntazar nazar aa libas-e-majaz may

    Well, even the Buddhist prayers are inscribed on the wheel and the person saying his prayers need to rotate the wheel and is allowed to think of anything like, when he needs to go to the barber to get his head shaved clean again or get his Saffron coloured dress to the laundry etc. As long as the wheel is in motions the emotions will catch up. Well, I am not an expert on Buddhism but, I know this much how they pray. But, they too have a form, like the Christians and the Jews they have to kneel down and fold their arms / palms and say their prayers, Muslims have their own way.

    I know that the procedure of saying Namaz is not written in the Qur’an and argue on the subject that it is not there in the Quran. But, how to say my prayers is being practiced since the time of our Prophet so I have to believe in him and the way he taught us how to pray or say namaz. So, the form is important and I cannot say that I can close my eyes and I am with my Allah. Yes, I can be, but that is not my prayers according to Islam.

    And Islam is a very flexible religion and it allows me to say my prayers while I am sitting on a chair or a sofa i.e., if I am unable to stand due to illness or injury. I am also allowed to say while I am lying in my bed if I am sick. If I cannot raise my hands or my finger then I am allowed to use my mind about the process in which namaz is said. The mind then performs the role in fulfilling the form but, my heart is always there to keep the spiritual aspect alive throughout.

    But, as long as I am healthy and able to walk and move freely I have to practice the way it has been told to us and the way it is being practiced since the last 1400 years.

    I enjoy the mystic Sufi poetry “Sufiana Kalaam” like Qawali or Mehfil-e-Sama, and I do respect the Sufis, Saints, Wali’s of the past as learned men, great scholars like Rumi etc., but, I don’t believe in prostrating in front of the graves or Mazaars of anyone of these people. If I need to ask anything, I will ask from my Allah. C’est tout.

  16. #16 by farrah, k.raja on November 8, 2008 - 7:10 PM

    Good to see you!
    Quran is a text book for sufi life and yes without puncutality of prayers and fasting one is not sub ordinate to the Creator.
    In my personal life I have learnt these things are for my own sanity and Allah does not need my prayers.Definitely Allah cannot be recognised without knowing and following the life of prophet PBUH.
    That is why I appreciate Islam so much it does not deny any right be it physical or spiritual.
    To be tasteful in dressing and to look good is not forbidden.
    Remembrance of Allah and recitation of Quran is not easy when done with dedication.It does consume energy and it does take its toll.
    Dervesh,faqir,wali and Pir are different ways to approach Allah.
    Dervesh and faqir are the one who have given up the life of pleasure or comfort,it is not compulsory but as I said it is just one’s own passion in the way of LOVE towards Allah.
    Pir is diffrent now Pir is the one who is responsible for the way taken up by a novice.
    Pir is responsible to ensure that the novice does get accross the stream of life despite the personal failures and short commings of a person.
    Wali is a step higher than Pir,Qutab,Abdal ,Ghaus these are all different stages of sufism.
    That is why SHEIKH ABDUL QADIR GILLANI is known as Ghuas Ul Azam Dastgir,he is the teacher of teachers (pirs) so all sufi chains lead up to him .
    Prophet Muhammad and ALLAH this is how an ordinary person progresses in sufi way.
    Look at the names Data Sahab,this is the name given to him by people.It is not that the grave of the saint gives you something.It is when you offer prayer after that you converse with your teacher explain him your difficulties and ask for a solution or guidance.
    I go to the Mizar of my Pir sahab ,and Data Darbar and have travelled extensively in Pakistan to the Darbars of saints.I love to see the roses,petals,tears in peoples eyes ,the desperation,and acceptance in people that they are weak and they need help and that spiritual strength and help is provided.
    This is a thing to be experienced .Anyway when I go to Data Darbar or any such place the vibe and purity,humbleness,sub-ordination and tears of helplessness
    and to be one with ordinary people ,who are there for the same reason,I become one of them, I forget my status,my life,my education or the carpets,the woman I am sitting next to is humble and helpless as am I infront of the Will of Allah and so is the sufi saint,we all wait with patiance
    for the Mercy.
    This is my personal sufi experience or understanding .This feeling where ever it comes from be it the Mizar of Rumi or Ajmair shrief.
    It is against the sufi tradition to let someone go without having something .Blessed are the ones who get purity of heart and spiritual guidance.
    Physical absence is nothing as long as heart is burning with the LIGHT

  17. #17 by farrah, k.raja on November 8, 2008 - 7:11 PM

    REF 15:JK
    by the way your article was good

  18. #18 by farrah, k.raja on November 8, 2008 - 9:45 PM

    Sufi music
    Is beautiful experience one should approach it with openness .It is difficult often to understand the wording because the singers mostly use the poetry of Sufi masters, which carry the world of meaning,inside each word ,veil after veil after veil of Hidden Beauty the Creator and the hidden self of ones own being,door upon door and each time one listens to the verse the meaning of verse as per human situation at the time changes.
    Bhullah Shah,Waris Shah ,Abdul Lateif Bhittai ,Shehbaz Qalandar,Ajmeir Shrief,Pak Patan all these Sufi Masters chose poetry to express their feelings and pangs and pains of this lonely journey called life.
    Yet the expression is full of similes derived from Quran,life of prophets and the times through which these Sufi masters lived.
    That is one aspect of sufi music,the poetry it self.
    The wording is often changed in the hands of singing masters ,the same poem written by one Sufi master is sung over and over by the different singers.Even the same singer cannot sing the same poem in the same tune as sung before.Why?
    Because Sufi music is a music of soul,it comes from soul,while singing and listening one is always absorbed into the poetry and who else can feel it more than the singer.
    There are many Sufi Qawals ,Sufi music is changing and instruments are always adding up.
    Some Sufi singers mix up the verses of different poets to- gather,even with their own poetry and further add Quranic Ayyat to it.
    Mostly Sufi music is regarding Supreme Love and carries the Pain of to be united with the Creator.Sufi music is also a way to show love and devotion to Prophet Muhammad .
    From Alam Lohar ,Hamid Ali Bella,Pathana Khan,Muhammad Jumman,Ghulam Farid Sabri,Aziz Mian Qawal till the modern day Sufi music evolved in the hands of Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan and experimentation of Abida Parveen with French and Iranian musicians are transforming the music of Sufi World and are taking it to the supreme height of quality.
    Her work with Lotfi Bouchnak and expression in Akbaroo is a work of art in itself.
    Sufi music is so alive, so evolving , so transforming and so transcendental ,so limitless like the Universe. It is a thing not to be read about it is an experience of trance, which carries whole different meaning to everyone.
    Sufi dance is a tradition set by Rumi.Dervesh dressed in white cloaks keep one hand pointed down towards the centre of earth and other hand lifted towards the sky ,pointing towards Creator and thus the whirling starts gently. First the hands are crossed on the heart and dervish starts to whirl slowly and than he opens his arms to the energy and flow of light of heart and dances on the beat of heart ,he moves round in circles ,pointing out that a Sufi journey is a circle and one ends up where he started united with the Creator. This whirl dance is a meditation in action.
    Note : All the above articles are my own thoughts ,it is not necessary that everyone agrees with it.Feel free to copy and distribute the message of Sufi love which in its essence is LOVE OF CREATOR AND ITS CREATION ;THE HUMANITY
    Do add to the list of your favourite work of SUFI SINGERS.My apology if I have left anyone out it is not intentional.It is purely down to my ignorance.
    JK be kind enough to provide some links to the work of SUFI Singers.

  19. #19 by JAVED A. KHAN on November 8, 2008 - 9:56 PM


    The last paragraph of your comment #16 once again touches the subject of heart. And I said, I will write on this subject separately. May be, I may have written this before on this blog. But, there is no harm in repetition because whatever was said earlier is somewhere in the archives.

    The question always arises, what the heart is all about? The answer is it is not a piece of flesh in our body – but the centre of all our feelings, emotions, motives, rives, aspirations, remembrance and attention.

    It is the hearts which soften or harden and become stony. It is they which go blind and refuse to recognize the truth for it is their function to reason and understand. In hearts lie the roots of all outward diseases, they are the seat of all inner ills. Hearts are the abode of faith and hypocrisy.

    It is the hearts again which are the centre of every good and every bad thing. Whether it is the contentment of peace, the strength to face afflictions, mercy, brotherly love, or doubt, hesitation, regrets, anger etc. Even in the holy books and as well as in reality, the emphasis is on heart and heart only.

    Because it is the heart for which we shall be accountable before Allah. A sound and whole heart will deserve to be saved from the evils and to the fire of the hell. Allah will not take us to task for a slip, but He will take us to task for what our heart earned.

    “The Day when neither wealth nor children shall profit, only he who comes before Allah with a sound heart will be saved.”

    All we need is the dynamic of inner participation and we should understand that well. How is our heart seized by truth?

    First, you come to know the truth.
    Second, you recognize and accept it as the truth and as relevant to your life.
    Third, you remember the truth, as much as often as you can.
    Fourth, you absorb it until it soaks into the deepest recesses of your inner self.

    The truth, thus becomes an ever-alive state of consciousness, an enduring posture of heart. Once a truth so permeates your inner world, it must pour out in the world of words & deeds as well.

    It is also important to remember here what we do outwardly, by tongue and limbs interacts with what we are inwardly. It is possible that words and deeds may be false witness to the state of inner self. But an inner state, like faith must necessarily find expression in words and deeds, which in turn must help in engraving our knowledge in our consciousness and turn it onto an abiding condition.

    Mind will make mistakes – feelings will not.

    In my opinion feelings are the synthesis of environments, whereas, ego, perception, sentiments, imagination and comprehension are the components of our feelings.
    What is the source of our feelings and where does it reside? In the mind or in our heart?

    The condition of our mind is influenced by the environments. Environments live in the fold of change. Mind will change, yes, but it does not have the capacity to see what will happen tomorrow.

    But feelings or vision can foresee the future. The gut feeling comes from our heart and not from our mind. The sixth sense is not in our mind it is our heart. Where does the soul reside? In our mind or in our heart? Obviously the Heart.

    As regards your approach in experiencing God that you have to go to a Sufi’s Mazar or places like Data Darbar and Ajmer Shareef to become one and then experience God, mine is different. Because, none of those Sufis, Walis, Saints have claimed that they are superior beings, they kept saying like our Prophet did, that we are ordinary people just like you. But, we know that our Prophet was not an ordinary person, it was his humility that he never claimed to be a superior person. If you look at his teachings, he has always emphasized that whatever you want you must ask Allah and not anyone else. Seek refuge in Allah and not under the Mazars of those people who are no more there.

    It is only Allah who is Omni potent, Omni present and Omniscient and no one else. So, to have this belief that those people who are buried there in those graves are still alive or present and we should ask through them is against the teachings of Islam. I am not a Wahabi but, my perception is very clear about this and, whenever I need to repent or ask for forgiveness or for blessings or anything for myself or for anyone else whom I want to be blessed by Allah, I approach only Allah and no one but Allah. I don’t need any intermediate to help my case, because Allah has created all human beings equal.

    If I do something good for someone, even if I feed a dog or a cat it is Allah who is going to reward me for that and of course if I do something good for my fellow human beings, first I feel that it is my duty to fulfill that need being a human being – I may or may not have done that only Allah knows best – and then that person might say or pray for me and that dua comes from the bottom of his/her heart and Allah does pay attention to that and bless me for that. But, I don’t do it with the intention of getting blessed, Allah knows my intentions and therefore, I would like to approach HIM directly and not through anyone.

    The thing that our people call it is “WASTA” or ZARIA that we are asking Data Saheb or Piranay Pir Dastagir or Khwaja Ajmeri or Nizamuddin Aowlia etc., because if we can please them then they can recommend our case to Allah and because those people were so close to Allah and they are so dear to Allah, Allah will not refuse their request. Well, this way we are putting them ahead of Allah, naozobillah thats not right.

    Allah is Ghafoor, Karim, Rahim, Rahman, Quddoos and He will forgive us if we spend so much time in repenting for our sins and asking for forgiveness from Him.

    You know who is a WA’EZ ? The person who gives WAAZ or sermon and our Moulvis often scare us from the fire of hell.

    Khawaja Mir Dard, a well known poet responded to the call of a Wa’ez by saying:

    Wa’ez Kisay Daraway hai Youm-el-Hisaab say
    Girya mera tou nama-e-Amaal dho gaya !

    Girya = rona, weeping …. I cried to the extent that my Amaal Nama got washed away.

    I need to send mine for Dry Cleaning 😉

  20. #20 by JAVED A. KHAN on November 8, 2008 - 10:09 PM


    “JK be kind enough to provide some links to the work of SUFI Singers.”

    I told you b4, honestly speaking that I dont know anyone else except Farid Ayaz and his brother Abu Mohammad and I have heard them in person a few times because they were here. Other than them I don’t know anyone.

    If you can Google or check on you tube you will find their numbers and I like that Amir Khusroo’s

    Chaapp Tilk sab cheeni ray mo say naina milaiye kay

    And, Mun Kul tou Maola, Ali Maola, Moala, Ali Maola
    And, Mera Pia Ghar aya. Pia Ghar aya sanoo Allah bi laya…

    The only problem is the quality on you tube is not the same as it is on CD. Also, not all their CD’s are good. But, the one I have ……..which were recorded in the concert hall by a professional with 8 tracks is very good and I listen to those CD’s in my car as my car has premium sound system with 13 Harmon Kardom speakers whereas my home audio system with 6 Mirage speakers is out of order and the only other is a small one with tiny bose speakers. Therefore, listening music in my car is a real pleasure.

    I g2g now and khansahab is here to update the comments.

    sana, I am happy that you have dropped charges against me. Thank you me Lord.

  21. #21 by farrah, k.raja on November 8, 2008 - 10:49 PM

    Good work JK.Sufism is a personal journey all the ways lead to HIM.
    Best of Luck sincerity in the way of God is bigger than the deed.

  22. #22 by farrah, k.raja on November 8, 2008 - 10:55 PM

    translation of IBNE ARABI work:

    “Incredible!A garden among fires,
    My heart turns to all forms,
    It has become
    a meadow where gazelles graze
    a monastery where monks pray;
    a temple for idol statues
    a cube for circumambulating pilgrims;
    both Torah scroll and bound volume of Quran
    where loves’s camels lead,
    there is my religion and there are my faith

  23. #23 by farrah, k.raja on November 8, 2008 - 10:57 PM


    MAnSur Al-Hallaj claimed the purity and containing of supreme Truth in the above words

  24. #24 by farrah, k.raja on November 8, 2008 - 11:06 PM

    by Shaikh Farid commonly known as Ganj-e-Shekar.

    O Farid
    I am dressed from head to toe
    in pious black
    I wander around,full of sin,
    yet people call me saint

    O Farid
    I thought I was alone in my pain
    but the whole world is suffering
    When I look down from the roof
    I see the same fire in every house.

  25. #25 by farrah, k.raja on November 8, 2008 - 11:11 PM

    in the context of heart Master Rumi says

    There is no salvation for the soul
    But to fall in love
    Only lovers can escape
    From these two worlds
    This was written in creation
    Only from the heart
    Can you reach the sky
    The rose of Glory
    Can only be grown in the heart

  26. #26 by farrah, k.raja on November 8, 2008 - 11:20 PM

    Rumi on Heart
    (taken from the work of Eryk Hanut and MicheleWetherbee)

    In the words of Rumi:

    “Polish your heart and you will soarabove all color and perfume.YOu will contemplate beauty ceaselesslyfrom heaven….you will receive,continuously ,hundreds of impressions.Why do I sayimpressions?I mean the direct vision of God”

    Polish the heart with a name of God
    Polish the heart with a prayer
    Polish the heart with devoted silence.

  27. #27 by farrah, k.raja on November 8, 2008 - 11:30 PM

    Beautiful imagery of Heaven described by Rumi:
    The world grows green again
    and runs with gardens
    Jewels from the mines glitter in each tree
    Souls open like suns and link with one another

    Each night ,the Moon kisses secretly the lover who counts the stars

    It is certain that an atom of goodness on the path of faith is never lost

    With this pain, you are digging a path for yourself.

    Say with each breath,”Make me humbler,make me humbler”
    When you are small as an atom,you will know His Glory

    After despair ,many hopes flourish
    Just as after darknes,
    Thousands of Suns open and
    Start to shine.”

  28. #28 by farrah, k.raja on November 9, 2008 - 11:41 AM

    Response to 19
    Mir and Dard two famous Urdu poets,often two terms are used to express their work,”wah” and “Aah” ka kalam.
    When we were students in school we would not understand this “wah” and “AaH”.
    Few months back I was having a disscussion with my friend she is masters in Urdu Literature,she explaine dto me that these terms are applied to these poets because they lived a sufi life.
    “Wah” and “Aah” is a maqam in sufi journey where these poets reached.
    Apart from Urdu literature I have never heard of these terms.These terms are authentic and for future ref instead of sending stuff to dry cleaning put it on radiator to dry.

  29. #29 by JAVED A. KHAN on November 9, 2008 - 4:02 PM


    As far as the use of the word “Aah” is concerned not only Mir Taqi Mir or Khawaja Mir Dard, but many other poets have used it, here is an example from Ghalib:

    Aah koh chahiyeh ek umer honay tak
    Kaun jeeta hai teri zulf kay saher honay tak

    Wah is an expression which is very common in poetry and it comes especially from the audience side when they appreciate the poetry and it is repead wah, wah, kya baat hai. Or, simply a ‘wah’ just like wow. And, I have not come across this word ‘wah’ in poetry except for a few light songs like,

    wah, kya teri baatain hain OR, on TV ads.

    WAH ! Lux kya scene hai?

    wah jee wah …

    Please enlighten me where WAH is used in a more serious way other than wah, wah, in appreciating poetry.

    Btw, the verse from Kh. Mir Dard that I have mentioned above:

    Wa’aez kisay daravay hai youm-al-hisaab say?
    Girya mera toh nama-e-aamaal dho gaya

    Here is a similar type of Sher, na jaanay kis ka hai, laikin hai hum wazan.

    Ronay say aur ishq may bay baak ho gayeh
    Dhoye gayeh ham aisay kay, bas paak ho gayeh

    There was a time, I used to collect “Ek jaisay Sher” meanings jinki similar hon words different.


    Har dil faraib cheez Nazar ka ghubaar hai
    Nazrain Haseen ho tou Khizaan bhee bahar hai


    Jalway kahan jo zaoq-e-nazara nahee shakeel
    Nazrain chalee gayeen tou nazaray chalay gaye

    and……. laters

  30. #30 by farrah, k.raja on November 9, 2008 - 6:01 PM

    Hi JK
    It is not that wah as of exclamation of excellent.
    in Sufi terms as used in Urdu literature is a maqam where the person reaches theplace where one realises that human life is nothing and all existance is just a waiting to meet the Creator.
    The next step is to realise and unite with creator,Wisal not in death but in present life.
    So we see many faqir at the maqam of “Ah” agony and pain in search of truth.
    Wah is a maqam where one feels the excitement of discovering the presence of Supreme in everything and one is not separated but enjoys the Supreme presence at all times.

  31. #31 by farrah, k.raja on November 9, 2008 - 6:53 PM

    Recomended books for sufism

    1.Kashaf -ul-Mahjoob

    Written by Syed Ali Bin Usman Al HAjweri commonly known as Data Gunj Bukash his Masoleum is situated at Lahore.Surrounded by beautiful mosque.

    Regarding this book ,Hazrat Nizam Ud Din Aulliya said,”
    “A person who has no spirtual guide ,will get one after reading the book ,Kashaf ul Mahjoob”

    The verse below explains the height of spiritual attainment of Data Sahib:

    GUNJ BAKHSH FAIZ-E-Alam,Mazhar-e-Noor-Khuda
    Naqsan ra pir kamil,Kamilan Rahnuma.

    Hazrat Nizam ud din Ulliya did an Aitkaaf in a Hujra during the times Usman Al Hajwari was alive.That Hujra is still there.

    Also in the vicinity of the mosque is the water fountain which as per traditions have miracles attached to it.

    The book is excellent read for rarely a saint came so close in disscussing the making of the saint .The search,union,separation and waiting and lamenting experiences are discussed indetail and how to avoid the over indulgence and dillusions.

    In his book he states the manerism and decorum of Sufism.
    Tt is a scientific study of emotional pattern and I found nothing irrationale or unrealistic .all the experiences are explained with extreme rationale as feelings .

    I would relate attiquete for listening to SAMA(Qawali):

    Translated from his book KASHAF UL MAHJUB

    Beware the mannerism of SAMAA are following:
    1.Untill you miss it do not listen to the Samaa
    2.Do not make it a habbit.
    3.Listen to it after long intervals so that its greatness always inspire you.
    4.In a Mehfil-e-Sama the pir should be present.
    5.Ordinary people should not come to Samma
    6.The singer Qawal should have grace
    7.The listeners should not be thinking about world but instead concentrating on poetry.
    8.Listen until one can bear it.
    9.when one feels like overtaken by the emotions do not suppress it
    also when there are no such emotions do not try to get into such feeling wait if it comes on its own.
    10.If you feel like moving than do move otherwise dont, so that you can get in touch with inner feelings and can differenciate between getting into trance or connection with higher self.
    11.One who is listening to SAMAA should have this much development that he can accept the experience of Truth and Blessing of Truth(Creator)
    do not try to exagerate or underestimate the experience.
    12.If one comes into trance,one should not seek help nor refuse help.
    13.If the singer is singing a good piece of poetry do not appreciate it and if it is bad do not condemn it and do not insist that deliver it better because it causes discouragement to the singers heart.
    Do not keep a grudge in your heart and do not relate to the singer instead try to relate it to the Creator.

    14.If the others get into trance but you do not ,the one who doesnot should try to concentrate why he is not able to reach to this stage of emotion.

    and I Usman ul Jalabi understand that a sick person should be stopped from listening to Sama so that he does not get upset.Also the woman who listen to the Sama from the rooftops should be stopped because it deviates the attention of listeners.
    Also children under the age of eighteen should not attend to Samma.Only ignorant sufis have adopted this as common practice.
    God save us from all such mal practices.

    Translated by Farrah K.Raja in a hope that who ever is practising Sufism and wants to get in touch with the higher self will get guidance through this.

  32. #32 by farrah, k.raja on November 9, 2008 - 7:32 PM

    daring to share some of my mystical poetry
    although it does not reach the loftiness of my mystics….
    but love like rose is always a rose
    be it sunshine or rain
    We are candles
    In order to live
    We have to burn
    Best burningis in love
    With passion

    Live like a butterfly
    Cocoon like a puppa
    Wait through misery of life
    for spring
    One day roses will bloom
    and you will get the wings.

    Follow your dreams
    like intution
    they are destiny

    Prayer is bigger than all sins
    Mercy of God
    Falls like rain
    For all human beings
    It runs like Oceans
    Without restraint
    repentance oozes from heart
    like a water spring

    Wait for passion
    to provoke you
    than to invade you
    than to burn you in fire
    than to consume you like ashes
    than it will free your heart like a hawk
    to set sails for skies
    or to dive to the bottom of sea
    World is an oyster
    truth is the pearl
    hold it still in your heart
    like a fliker of a fire.

    6.Be a verse
    Be a rose
    Be an inspiration
    Like a bee
    Suck the nector
    and set polen free
    for germination.
    For Truth is rare to breed.

    7.Like a rose
    I never die
    In every spring
    I come back
    with new dreams

  33. #33 by farrah, k.raja on November 9, 2008 - 7:58 PM

    Tribute to Rummi
    How beautiful you must be
    Essence ——of purity
    For to hold a glimpse of Beauty
    You have to have clearity of purity
    than to dispers
    that glimpse of Light
    in all directions
    Untill Eternity
    Now hat is what I call
    Prophetic Beauty
    Touch my heart tonight
    And Bless my intution
    With the light of Eternal Beauty.

    Rummi is the essence of Sufism like musk is to rose.

  34. #34 by farrah, k.raja on November 9, 2008 - 8:00 PM

    I met Rummi
    and asked him
    Where has my pain gone?
    He replied with a smile:
    In the city of Chriest Which pain you are talking off?

  35. #35 by farrah, k.raja on November 9, 2008 - 8:02 PM

    Modern Woman
    I am a Rummi poem
    I burn like heat
    Comming out of desert sands
    I am the dance of the dunes
    Under the stars
    I am I at last
    Like the moon,like the sun
    like the desert ,like the rain.

  36. #36 by farrah, k.raja on November 9, 2008 - 8:22 PM

    Jk Iam sorry I have invaded your religion page with my more poetry from me.
    AANKH gar houtee tou Qatrai main Sumandar dekhta

  37. #37 by JAVED A. KHAN on November 9, 2008 - 8:48 PM

    Aankh gar hoti tou qatray may samander dekhta?

    Hur ghari mujh say ulajhta hai samander mera
    Mai hee kashti hoon, mujhee may hai samander mera

    Muddatain beet gayeen khwaab sohanay dekhay
    Jaagta rehta hai har neend may bister mera

    Hum Pathan log tou Naam Samandar Khan rekh letay hain
    Moonh dhonay ko paani ka qatra nahee, khali hai lota mera

    I am being modest by saying Moonh. 🙂

    Ahmad Faraz said:

    Apnay aansoo, apni aankhaon may rehain tou Mehr-O-Mah
    Gir kay duniya kee nazar may aabroo paye to kya?

    Issi liyeh kehtay hain:

    rona, kabhee nahee rona
    chahay toot jai koi khilona ……
    Khiloonaaa, Ronaaaa

  38. #38 by farrah, k.raja on November 9, 2008 - 9:09 PM

    19.Javed sahab
    Sufism Ishq ka naam hai kahan aaqal lara rahai hain?

    Seenai dai wich na samaeyee hai yaar dadhi ishq atish.

    from Al-Niffari a sufi mystic ( year 966)

    at the door step of death:

    Deeds came to me and I saw in them hidden illusion,that turned to dust
    There was no help except the mercy of my Lord

    He said to me
    Where is your science? I saw the fire
    Where are your deeds?I saw the fire
    Where is your intution?I saw the fire
    And He unveiled to me His sources of knowing.So the fire died down.
    He said to me,

    I am your protector and friend;so I stood firm
    I am your intutio;so I spoke out
    I want you”So I went forth.

    when you sleep before that clear your mind of all things and think about Creator
    Allah says ,”He is closer to man than his jagular vein.”
    What can be closer than jagular vein,the breath inside it.
    At such moment close your eyes and say
    Allah -ho
    Allah while taking the breath in ,breath in Allah ,the Noor
    “Ho “while exhalling direct towards heart.It opens energy cahnels.
    It is authentic breathing exercise for meditation in Yoga.
    In Sufism it is to polish the heart.
    Best of luck.

  39. #39 by farrah, k.raja on November 9, 2008 - 9:14 PM

    37 .Pehlai do ashaar aachai hain

    Chaap talak saab cheenee rai mousai nainah milaikai

    In other words ,although it i swritten behind every rickshaw and truck in Pakistan I love it

    Kithay Mehar Ali
    Kithay meree sanaa
    Gustakh akhiyaan kithai ja laryian.

  40. #40 by farrah, k.raja on November 9, 2008 - 9:14 PM

    tell me how is my poetry

  41. #41 by farrah, k.raja on November 10, 2008 - 3:44 PM

    The Wings of Love —-FILM
    Produced and directed by Shems Friedlander
    Narrated by Peter Boyle

    A film made on RUMI including the discussion of Martin Lings and ,Sufi Dance and the Masoleum of Rumi

  42. #42 by farrah, k.raja on November 10, 2008 - 4:13 PM

    Regarding Dalai Lama I have to write one sentence only :

    He always makes me more human ,more humble

    Below are some quotes by Dalai Lama:read them in peace and let them touch your soul,allow the healing from inside you to grow and take over all the anger,pain and negativity:

    We can live without religion and meditation, but we cannot survive without human affection.

    All major religious traditions carry basically the same message, that is love, compassion and forgiveness the important thing is they should be part of our daily lives.

    Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions.

    In the practice of tolerance, one’s enemy is the best teacher.

    I find hope in the darkest of days, and focus in the brightest. I do not judge the universe.

    We can never obtain peace in the outer world until we make peace with ourselves.

    Sleep is the best meditation.

    Spend some time alone every day.

    This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness.

    With realization of one’s own potential and self-confidence in one’s ability, one can build a better world.

    Open your arms to change, but don’t let go of your values.

    The purpose of our lives is to be happy.

  43. #43 by farrah, k.raja on November 10, 2008 - 4:16 PM

    About Dalai Lama

    Source: Les Prix Nobel, 1989

    His Holiness the Dalai Lama (Tenzin Gyatso) is the spiritual leader of the Tibetan people.

    He was born in a small village called Takster in northeastern Tibet. Born to a peasant family, His Holiness was recognized at the age of two, in accordance with Tibetan tradition, as the reincarnation of his predecessor the 13th Dalai Lama. The Dalai Lamas are the manifestations of the Bodhisattva of Compassion, who chose to reincarnate to serve the people. Dalai Lama means Ocean of Wisdom. Tibetans normally refer to His Holiness as Yeshin Norbu, the Wish-fulfilling Gem, or simply, Kundun, meaning The Presence.

    Dalai Lama has resided in exile in Dharamsala, India, since 1959. His tireless efforts on behalf of world peace and human rights have brought him international recognition, including the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989.

    His Views on HAPPINESS:

    Happiness can be achieved through training the mind.

    The fact that there is always a positive side to life is the one thing that gives me a lot of happiness.

    Beliefs and Values

    The need of the day is a warm heart and some sense of humanity.

    My religion is very simple. My religion is kindness.

    Unlike science, the religious tradition teaches the concept of forgiveness, tolerance and compassion. Scientists cannot help you change your emotion, only religion can.

    Knowledge, Learning

    I learn as much from a turtle as from a religious text.

    You might consider things like old age and death as negative, unwanted, and simply try to forget about them. But eventually those things will come anyway.


    The need for simple human-to-human relationships is becoming increasingly urgent … Today the world is smaller and more interdependent. One nation’s problems can no longer be solved by itself completely. Thus, without a sense of universal responsibility, our very survival becomes threatened. Basically, universal responsibility is feeling for other people’s suffering just as we feel our own. It is the realization that even our enemy is entirely motivated by the quest for happiness. We must recognize that all beings want the same thing that we want. This is the way to achieve a true understanding, unfettered by artificial consideration.

  44. #44 by farrah, k.raja on November 11, 2008 - 9:52 PM

    link for Dalai Lama teachings and photographes

  45. #45 by farrah, k.raja on November 11, 2008 - 10:06 PM

    link for Rumi

  46. #46 by farrah, k.raja on November 16, 2008 - 6:48 PM

    LOVE:Can we do without it !
    Surprisingly …no.
    We never stop loving;Love is the only emotion which changes its name and face over and again and comes and stands infront of us and overtake us.
    This love emotion is so beautiful and it has so many faces,we love Creator,we love our parents,we love our brothers and sisters and we love our children and we love our friends and we love the opposite sex.
    In life we never stop loving.At different times this love is for different people .Going to a nursery one falls in love with a teacher,growing up we love our parents.We hate our brothers and sisters ,we pick up most fights with them,despite all the fights and hair pulling we love them.Than we fall in love with a film star and than maybe a next door neighbour and than a tension builds up because your mum and dad never like your pick and you give up that bond with parents and choose the object of your affection to love.
    Than in marriage if you started with love but than you drifted apart ,we start to love our children and when they grow up and find their love somewhere else we start loving our grand children.
    Isnt it Beautiful we never stop loving .Only when we are hurt we change our affection to the ones who need it most.

  47. #47 by farrah, k.raja on November 16, 2008 - 7:04 PM

    Love is inborn quality ,everyone has it but some have it in abundance and others just never acknowledge it.
    As I have grown up in my life I have realised there is better thing than love and
    that is companionship.
    A good company or a company of like minded person is a must.When two people can really have a converstaion and when two people can really share each other without prejudice and when they allow each other to open up and when they have this mutual trust that they are being cared for ,that is beautiful.This relationship can be with any memeber of the family,a childhood friend,a colleague anyone.
    This companionship is so beautiful ,it heals all wounds,it takes away the tiredness,the ailment,the sickness.It fills you with vitality and positivity and you can take the crap of whole world.
    A comapny of a good friend and I am blessed with quite a few,after having a converstaion one feels like you have swallowed stars and you are bursting with energy ,charisma,thoughts,ideas,love and at other times one just feels like a late summer after noon sitting by a stream,under a shaddy tree watching the sun beams filtering through leaves and your brain is free of thoughts and you have no words to say anything but you are so content.
    Well ! it is not very often that one gets this from other people but than I have cultivated myself in such a way that I ensure I get this quality time out of my own company for myself.
    Heal yourself and love your self so that you can give it to others.

  48. #48 by farrah, k.raja on November 16, 2008 - 8:54 PM

    no matter how many barriers we put up no matter how much we allianate ourselves love is within us ,it oozes and gushes through our veins at times it floods out like tears and at others it becomes a permanent silent smile on our lips and people around us look in surprise.What is that?Who is that you are thinking of?It sparks in eyes like tousand suns it glitters in the smile and the skin shines and we get the charm of life.
    and by God that life is beautiful.
    one is drunk without drinking
    one is full without eating
    one is rich without wallet
    one is warm without blanket
    That is called BLESSING of love

  49. #49 by farrah, k.raja on November 16, 2008 - 9:02 PM

    and one must read Paulo Coelho!
    At least THE ALCHEMIST.
    whenever one is lost ,one should know
    there is a way they have to look within
    listen to your heart ……..
    and beware your heart often betrays you
    it is the most treachreous friend!!!
    We are always decieved by our own hearts and yet we blame others
    As we grow old ,heart should grow younger
    for it knows no fear and no limits
    the universe is within us
    why we look around?

  50. #50 by farrah, k.raja on November 17, 2008 - 12:04 AM

    and in this Christmas season I believe in Santa and I believe in prayers and I believe in wishes come true.
    And I love the surprises ,and the nature offers me so many when I am least expecting them,like a sun shinning bright,or a pouring rain and when I least expect a snow fall.
    How good it is things do not go as we plan,otherwise what would be the fun of living.

  51. #51 by farrah, k.raja on November 17, 2008 - 11:09 PM

    Can we grow beyond our egos
    fears and insecurities
    can we connect on the human level
    beyond the walls of religion,cast,creed and
    matrial boudaries and petty disputes
    Yes ! We can

  52. #52 by Awas on November 20, 2008 - 10:55 AM


    The following is an actual question given on a University of
    Washington chemistry mid term.

    The answer by one student was so ‘profound’ that the professor shared
    it with colleagues, via the Internet, which is, of course, why we now
    have the pleasure of enjoying it as well :

    Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic
    (absorbs heat)?

    Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle’s Law
    (gas cools when it expands and heats when it is compressed) or some

    One student, however, wrote the following:

    First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we
    need to know the rate at which souls are moving into Hell and the rate
    at which they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once
    a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are
    leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let’s look at the
    different religions that exist in the world today.

    Most of these religions state that if you are not a member of their
    religion, you will go to Hell. Since there is more than one of these
    religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we
    can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as
    they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase
    exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in
    Hell because Boyle’s Law states that in order for the temperature and
    pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand
    proportionately as souls are added.

    This gives two possibilities:

    1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls
    enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase
    until all Hell breaks loose.

    2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in
    Hell,then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes

    So which is it?

    If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa during my Freshman
    year that, ‘It will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you,’
    and take into account the fact that I slept with her last night, then
    number two must be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic
    and has already frozen over. The corollary of this theory is that
    since Hell has frozen over, it follows that it is not accepting any
    more souls and is therefore, extinct……leaving only Heaven, thereby
    proving the existence of a divine being which explains why, last
    night, Teresa kept shouting ‘Oh my God.’


  53. #53 by Amit. P on November 20, 2008 - 2:41 PM


    LOL. Classic example of lateral thinking. This world need more Teresa to prove existence of divinity. 😀

  54. #54 by Awas on November 20, 2008 - 3:18 PM

    Amit. P

    Definitely…I agree with you…we do need existence of divinity that is easily proven with our interaction with pretty souls (Teresa). No wonder khansahab and Omar are smitten by the likes of Belluccis 🙂

  55. #55 by farrah, k.raja on December 3, 2008 - 10:30 PM

    Fasting cleanse the spirit and provides means to slow down to reflect and connect to the Creator.
    Fasting is common to all religions as is contemplation.
    Three days before EID UL HADHA is a good oppertunity to observe fasting,particularly that in these days HAJJ is performed .IT is a good time to take a break from world and reunite with inner self.Also to catch up with the fasting if we have missed any during Ramadan.
    Whole of world is so positive at present whole of ISlamic world is praying and Meccah is lit with the repentant hearts and ecstacy of being present before ALLAH .EUROPE is extremely positive full of THANKSGIVING AND CHRISTMASS SPIRT , let us use all positivity and believe in our prayers.LET US BELIVE IN IMPOSSIBLE,POSSIBILITY IS WITHIN

  56. #56 by Mohammed Munir on December 15, 2008 - 6:51 AM

    Sura No. 33, Al-Ahzab (The Clans, The Combined Forces) – Madinah.

    Arabic (English):

    “Inna Allaha wamala-ikatahu yusalloonaAAala alnnabiyyi ya ayyuha allatheenaamanoo salloo AAalayhi wasallimoo tasleeman”.


    [33:56] Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet: O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect.


    (Lo! Allah and His angels shower blessings on the Prophet. O ye who believe! Ask blessings on him) pray for him (and salute him with a worthy salutation) and resign yourselves to his command.

  57. #57 by farrah, k.raja on December 18, 2008 - 8:54 PM

    Translation seems to be from Marmaduke Pikthal,I have never come accross such a beautiful and absolute translation .Definitely Marmaduke is the best.
    Seven years ago I wanted to read his essays ,now is the time .Thanks for reminding.

  58. #58 by farrah, k.raja on December 26, 2008 - 9:48 PM

    In quest of truth or power?
    By Dr Asghar Ali Engineer (Dawn)
    THERE is great confusion worldwide as to the significance of religion in one’s life. For instance, does religion urge its followers to engage in a quest for truth or for power? Most middle class and upper-middle class people use religion as an instrument of power instead of seeing it as an instrument in the quest for truth.

    If religion signifies that quest it becomes a great boon for humanity; whenever it has been used as a tool of power it has brought war and bloodshed.

    All religions have put great emphasis on the truth. The Quran also maintains that all prophets came with the truth from Allah and hence it accepts the validity of earlier prophets’ message though followers may have distorted it later. In the Quran one of Allah’s names is Haq i.e. Truth. All prophets, including the Prophet of Islam (PBUH), were greatly disturbed by the prevailing conditions, especially the moral degradation of the rich and the powerful and their oppression. Through the power of truth they challenged the rich and powerful.

    Opposition to Prophet Mohammad also came mainly from the rich and the powerful of Makkah who were highly disturbed by the message of truth, justice and peace and began to persecute him. The Prophet and his followers faced oppression from these quarters but they remained steadfast and determined. They never gave in, and made sacrifices for establishing a just and peaceful society where all could live in freedom and dignity, believing in one God and fearing none but Him. The Prophet and his followers were seriously engaged against injustice in society.

    It is for this reason the Quran condemns the accumulation of wealth (chapter 104) and shows great sympathy with orphans, widows, the poor (masakin) and other weaker sections of society (chapter 107). Social dynamics in the Quran consist of a constant struggle between the oppressed and the oppressor (mustad’ifun and mustakbirun) and Allah’s sympathies are of course with mustad’ifun (28:5).

    Thus it becomes clear that Islam and the Holy Prophet were never in search for power but in a constant quest for the truth. It is also a fact that the quest for truth makes a person humble and the quest for power makes a person arrogant. A society dominated by the urge for truth will never become a cause for conflict, but a people in search for power can even become Hitler in extreme cases.

    Sufis in Islamic history also represent the quest for truth whereas sultans and kings represent that of power. While Sufis attracted the masses and brought about inner peace to many, kings and sultans brought wars and bloodshed. One dynasty of rulers fought the other. Sons fought against fathers, and brother against brother.

    Also, ulema who did not align themselves with rulers — like Imam Abu Hanifa and several others — never became an instrument of consolidating a ruler’s power. The Abbasids, for their own reasons, upheld the doctrine of createdness of the Quran (mainly for support from the Mu’tazilites) but ulema like Abu Hanifa refused to endorse the doctrine and were flogged. Imam Hanifa even refused to become the chief qazi, fearing he might be required to support the rulers’ political doctrines which may not have conformed to the teachings of Islam.

    Such ulema tried to uphold the truth (haq) because they understood Islam as a quest for the truth, not for power. The sultans shed much blood and even their governors, like Hajjaj bin Yusuf, were notorious for slaughter. He is reported to have killed some 100,000 Muslims and imprisoned more than that number; he also kept some 50,000 women in prison. Yazid got the grandson of the Prophet martyred for the sake of power, whereas the imam remained steadfast in his conviction of the truth. Yazid was on the side of power and Hussain on the side of truth.

    Coming to our own times, religion has been often misused in the quest for power by dictators, sheikhs and kings. Even Islamisation became a political tool in the quest for power for rulers like Ziaul Haq. No dictator who talked of Islamisation ever made an effort to usher in a just society, free of oppression and exploitation of the weak, which was the goal of Islam.

    The dearest thing to the Prophet of Islam was justice, not power. Even before he became the Prophet he had set up hilf al-fudul (society of the meritorious) to do justice by those who were wronged by the unscrupulous. It was truth and justice, not power, that the Prophet strived for. That was his real jihad; one that never sought power.

    Thus establishment of haq, not iqtidar, is the goal of religion.

    The writer heads the Centre for Study of Society and Secularism, Mumbai.

  59. #59 by theossa on January 7, 2009 - 2:46 PM

    The Cosmology Theories

    I just wanted to provide something for the food of thought. Before people start bashing them I want to say that these are just theories based of Einstein’s Theory of General Relativity. The theory of relativity does not explain the beginning or ending of the universe or the current rate of acceleration of our universe so these theories are quite interesting in this regard. Let me start with the good old Big Bang Theory who most of you are familiar with. I’ll keep it as short as I can.

    The Big Bang Theory

    Our universe sprang into existence as “singularity” around 13.7 billion years ago. What is a “singularity” and where does it come from? Science doesn’t know for sure. Singularities are zones which defy our current understanding of physics. They are thought to exist at the core of “black holes.” Black holes are areas of intense gravitational pressure. The pressure is thought to be so intense that finite matter is actually squished into infinite density. These zones of infinite density are called “singularitie”.

    After its initial appearance, the universe apparently inflated (the “Big Bang”), expanded and cooled, going from very, very small and very, very hot, to the size and temperature of our current universe. It continues to expand and cool to this day and we are inside of it. There are Super Massive Black Holes at the core of each galaxy. Our Milky Way contains approximately 200 billion stars and there are billions galaxies like ours in the universe.

    There are many misconceptions surrounding the Big Bang theory. For example, we tend to imagine a giant explosion. Experts however say that there was no explosion; there was (and continues to be) an expansion. Another misconception is that we tend to image the singularity as a little fireball appearing somewhere in space. According to scientists, time and space had a finite beginning that corresponded to the origin of matter and energy. The singularity didn’t appear in space; rather, space began inside of the singularity.

    The Ekpyrotic Universe Theory

    Our conventional view of 3-D physical space, along with time, makes up the four known dimensions. The Ekpyrotic Universe Theory describes that our current universe is a four-dimensional membrane embedded in a five-dimensional ‘bulk’ space, something like a sheet of paper in ordinary three-dimensional space. Our universe was created when two parallel “membranes” collided cataclysmically after evolving slowly in five-dimensional space over an exceedingly long period of time. Even scientists admit they find this hard to picture intuitively. The idea then is that another membrane collided with ours, releasing energy and heat and leading to the expansion of our universe.

    While the new theory is full of complex math and obscure concepts, it is a somewhat soothing idea for anyone who has ever wondered what the heck lies beyond our universe.

    The Big Rip Theory

    It wasn’t long ago that many cosmologists believed that our universe might reverse course, that normal gravity would win, and that everything would fall back. But solid astronomical observations made in the late 1990s concluded that the universe is expanding at an ever-increasing pace, and that something unknown is vacuuming everything outward. This can’t be explained by the law of physics and given the known matter and energy that exists. To account for the acceleration, theorists have conjured a product they call dark energy, which supposedly repels things rather than attracting, as gravity does.

    It is not clear if the dark energy driving expansion is a force not currently described by physics, or if it is merely a different manifestation of gravity over huge distances. The repulsion could be a response to dark matter, invisible stuff that is known to comprise 23 percent of the universe, based on firm observations. Dark matter has unknown properties, and it may be related to dark energy. Einstein considered that gravity might work repulsively, in a manner consistent with his Theory of General Relativity.

    Dark energy, being quantified only recently, tends to be discussed as some strange new force, in addition to the four fundamental forces: gravity, electromagnetism, and the strong and weak nuclear forces that govern atoms.
    The Big Rip theory has dark energy’s prowess increasing with time, until it’s an out-of-control phantom energy. This most exotic cosmological theory states that the expansion of the universe will become so fast that it will literally rip apart all bound objects. It will rip apart clusters of galaxies. It will rip apart stars. It will rip apart planets and solar systems. And it will eventually rip apart all matter and would even overwhelm the normal, trusted effects of gravity right down to the local level. Even the nuclear forces that bind things in the subatomic world will cease to be effective. And all that will take approximately 20 billion years.

    Big Rip Theory brings Sci-fi ideas like wormholes and time travel to the realm of hard science. All of this could sort itself out pretty soon. Observations over the next few years may actually show if this phantom energy is behind the accelerated expansion of the universe.

    Does the universe recycle itself after the big rip? Is there something after nothing? By the face of it would be end of time.

    So where is God in all this?

    Any discussion about the cosmological theories would be incomplete without asking the question, what about God? This is because cosmogony (the study of the origin of the universe) is an area where science and theology meet. Creation was a supernatural event. That is, it took place outside of the natural realm. This fact begs the question: is there anything else which exists outside of the natural realm? Specifically, is there a master Architect out there? We know that this universe had a beginning. Was God the “First Cause”? Why all holy books take Planet Earth as the center of the Universe and us human beings as supreme living things for which all the universe is created in the first place? I won’t attempt to answer that question and I just ask the questions -:)

  60. #60 by Awas on January 7, 2009 - 3:23 PM


    Good theological thoughts!

    On your question “is there anything else which exists outside of the natural realm”?

    The answer is…aliens.

    When I came in the UK first the immigration authorities handed me a piece of paper which stated I was an alien. So, people on earth do believe aliens exist. 🙂

  61. #61 by Mohammed Munir on January 7, 2009 - 3:36 PM

    Awas …

    They would have seen your other picture with double zero 😀

  62. #62 by Awas on January 7, 2009 - 3:47 PM


    How did you know that 🙂

  63. #63 by theossa on January 7, 2009 - 3:51 PM

    LOL Awas, yeah I was a resident alien once upon a time but now I transformed into a human being. Jokes aside, I find it very hard to believe that this gigantic universe was created to please human beings. We are totally flawed creatures with very limited intelligence. We kill each other and other living things around us (that includes me -:). The planet Earth is supposed to hug Sun in approximately 5 billion years which is way before the demise of universe. As a star sun will die one day and so will we. Or even before that, all it will take a 5 square mile asteroid to hit Earth and that will do the trick. We are not even a tiny dot in the enormous universe and to think that we are the center of universe, everything was created for us and will be destroyed because we won’t exist anymore is very naive. There might be God but probably not that human like simpleton described in holy books that will punish people who defy him and is very sensitive about what we human do. I sometime think God is just creation of our imagination because we needed an answer for our existence. The possibility of other living beings just in our galaxy Milkyway is very high, seven Earth like planets have been identified so far in our galaxy and that too with a weasel space scope like Hubble. Hey, may be God and some other very intelligent Alien life is reading all this and laughing out loud -:)

  64. #64 by theossa on January 7, 2009 - 4:03 PM

    It’s funny, when I was little and when I read that Sora-e-Ikhlaas stating that God is a unity and has been forever and will be forever, I thought that God must bored to death. He created us so that he can watch us do all kind of stuff and he finds it amusing just like when we watch TV. LOL

  65. #65 by Awas on January 7, 2009 - 4:27 PM


    Einstein, very interesting and admirable what you say here…thoughts of a free mind…but I reserve my thoughts of agreement or disagreement. Some good scholars have mentioned a lot here on LS, before it started to veer to a different course.

    I especially like:

    “intelligent Alien life is reading all this and laughing out loud”

    “He created us so that he can watch us do all kind of stuff and he finds it amusing just like when we watch TV”.

  66. #66 by theossa on January 7, 2009 - 4:43 PM

    Awas, I presented similar thoughts before that I have a weak faith in religions. I’m open to the idea of God and believe in one but religions don’t impress me. Sometimes I get into this questioning mood and vent out what I think and today was one of those days. Like one of my most favorite and respected sufi, philosopher, and theologian Hazrat Baba Bulleh Shah R.A. questions:

    The soil is in ferment, O friend
    Behold the diversity.
    The soil is the horse, so is the rider
    The soil chases the soil, and we hear the clanging of soil
    The soil kills the soil, with weapons of the soil.
    That soil with more on it, is arrogance
    The soil is the garden so is its beauty
    The soil admires the soil in all its wondrous forms
    After the circle of life is done it returns to the soil
    Answer the riddle O Bulleh, and take this burden off my head.”

  67. #67 by Vanilla Pod on January 11, 2009 - 4:05 PM

    They say ‘seeing is believing’ and I think that is the main reason why people do not believe in God or get doubts about a higher power’s existence.

    We have been made ashraful makhlukaats (superior of other life forms) because we can think, invent and discover as we evolve. The Quran asks us to think (gor-o-fikar karo) and educate ourselves to start making sense of our surroundings. This could be true of other religions too but I can only speak of my religion as I am not aware fully of the teachings of other religions. But I can say that all religions guide their followers to lead a good, peaceful life.

    For me, my belief becomes strong when I think of the scientific discoveries made based on the ideas and hints provided to us by the religious books, such as the Quran. Some of the earliest, most important discoveries were made by people who were scholars, who read the Quran and got ideas from there. I keep mentioning Quran because that’s what I have some knowledge about, other books like the bible may have been used too.

    We know that Quran is the only text in this world which is still in its original text and unchanged, even though there have been many different interpretations of the book. If this book, which was compiled a long time ago, can contain references to the solar system, the earth, formation of foetus and other things, it suggests the existence of God. Otherwise only that who could travel in time to the future, use high quality equipment and then go back to write the findings could have written them, which is highly unlikely.

    One example which is coming to me now is about the shape of the earth. By the 9th century, Muslim scholars believed that earth was spherical. Galileo proved this 500 years later. Even though Galileo is said to be belonging to the Illuminati, the original idea came from those who were believers.

    Voila! Here you have something to ponder upon…

  68. #68 by Awas on January 11, 2009 - 4:18 PM


    Fist comment on a serious subject…very impressive. This indeed is very good coming from a scientist expressed in a logical thoughtful manner.

    You must watch 2nd episode tomorrow about Islam and Science on BBC 4 which I think is at 9pm. That Cambridge professor was very learned and presented the 1st episode in a very nice way with input from many scholars from all over the world.

  69. #69 by Vanilla Pod on January 11, 2009 - 4:27 PM


    thank you for encouraging me and also for reminding me to watch the second episode of Science and Islam. Unfortunately i missed the first episode as i was cooking chicken tikka masala, which tasted like something else…

  70. #70 by Awas on January 11, 2009 - 4:31 PM


    Loll @ “chicken tikka masala, which tasted like something else…” I can just visulise it if it was prepared like a laboratory type thing 🙂

  71. #71 by Vanilla Pod on January 11, 2009 - 4:34 PM

    when theo said earth will meet the sun and thats when it will be destroyed as we know the orbits are becoming smaller and smaller, i recall hearing the transalation of some surah about the Qayamat wala din that sun will be lurking on our heads and the mountains will erupt etc. which does not literally mean that it will be right above our heads but that it will be so near that earth life will feel like becoming fried.

  72. #72 by Awas on January 11, 2009 - 4:43 PM


    That I think is Sura Al-Falaq…

    Humm! If you can convince Theo that would be a miracle.

    His theology is different and likeable it may be too as he seems more inclined towards mysticism.

  73. #73 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 11, 2009 - 7:10 PM


    I am glad to see you posting something here on this page. On the last paragraph of your comment you mentioned that by 9th Century Muslim scholars ………….. So, let me give you a specific example and its not just my view but on Jan. 4th 2009 on BBC there was an article on Al-Hassan Ibn al-Haytham, the renowned Muslim Scholar.

    Please read the article by clicking the link below:

  74. #74 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 11, 2009 - 7:14 PM


    Its in Surah Yasin…. i.e., when the Sun will be obliterated and………..

    And about the Big Bang Theory…….. you must read my earlier comments on this page where I have quoted Ayesha Abdur Rahman Al Tarjumana’s work on the sub-atomic world in Qur’an and also on Surah Al- Noor, The Light.

    There is a verse in Qur’an

    Faatir us Samawadi Wal Aradi

    Meaning, WE exploded the Heavens and the Earth.

  75. #75 by Vanilla Pod on January 11, 2009 - 7:26 PM


    Thank you for the link, it was a very good read.

  76. #76 by Steeler on January 14, 2009 - 6:01 PM

    Vanilla iPod @ 71

    Earth meeting the sun or an asteroid hitting the planet earth does not mean the end of the universe, at most it would mean end of our solar system. Remember our galaxy has approximately 200 billion stars and death of Sun would not even result in a supernova due to its small size. So the destruction of entire universe would be an absurd idea and even most of our Milkyway galaxy would not be affected.

    The Aryan and Egyptian were extremely good at Astrology way before the dawn of religions of book.

  77. #77 by Vanilla Pod on January 14, 2009 - 7:15 PM


    I dont remember writing the ‘universe’ will get destroyed…i was only writing about the earth and when i said orbits are becoming smaller, it meant planets in the solar system.
    so i dont know where u got the ‘absurd idea’ idea from 🙂

  78. #78 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 14, 2009 - 9:05 PM


    Sitaraon kay aagay Jahan aur bhee hain
    Theo kay ishq kay imtehaan aur bhee hain

    Theo is not in love with Theology or Astronomy but NataliOnomy!

  79. #79 by Steeler on January 16, 2009 - 1:19 PM

    Vanilla IPod @ 77

    My bad about the comments,

    But I thought you were referring to “Qayamat” as a universal phenomenon not a local one at solar level. When you mentioned human being as “Ashraful Mukhloqaat”, did you mean at the universal level or at local level? I personally believe we might be Supreme Being just at local level. I don’t see human race as the Masters of Universe. Thanks for supporting the idea of Evolution when you said, “We have been made ashraful makhlukaats (superior of other life forms) because we can think, invent and discover as we evolve”. Now you are on right track.

    At your other quote, “They say ‘seeing is believing’ and I think that is the main reason why people do not believe in God or get doubts about a higher power’s existence”. I have to reply you with a saying, “In God we trust. All others shall provide objective evidence” -:)

  80. #80 by Awas on January 16, 2009 - 1:35 PM


    I like your radical theological ideas.

    But why have you turned a perfectly decent looking being into an iPod?

  81. #81 by Steeler on January 16, 2009 - 1:45 PM

    Awas, what you would rather have, a Vanilla Pod or a Vanilla colored iPod?

  82. #82 by Awas on January 16, 2009 - 1:46 PM


    Now you got me thinking 🙂

  83. #83 by Vanilla pod on January 16, 2009 - 5:35 PM

    Theo xbox
    (theo is thinking outside the box, space marked by x)

  84. #84 by Steeler on January 16, 2009 - 7:34 PM

    Vanilla iPod

    LOL, I’m sure my free thinking “x box” will take me to a beautiful little place called Hell, LOL. By the way I’m an avid video gamer, own Xbox 360 and loves first person shooters like Gears of War, Halo series, Rainbow Six, and Call of Duty, series. Why am I telling you all this? Ma ta na de pata.

  85. #85 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 17, 2009 - 4:23 AM

    Theo your comment # 79

    Man is “Ashraf ul Maqlooq” or superior being this concept needs more explanation.

    God has said in Surah At Tin or The Fig Chapter 95: “Surely WE created man of the best stature. Then WE reduced him to the lowest of the low.”

    Best stature: It is not only among the living creatures such as animals or birds but, among the other forms of life such as the Angels and the Jinns.

    A lot of people believe that “Shaitaan” or Iblees was a Farishtah before. They are wrong, he was a Jinn and that’s a long story if you want to hear or read it, I can write about that in detail.

    Man has been bestowed potentialities to acquire knowledge of how everything else in the universe functions (2:33, The Qur’an).

    Now it is up to him to utilize these potentialities and conquer/harness all that lies in the universe.

    In this universe, man is the only creature who is given choice and discretion. He may obey the laws of Allah or may not; this discretion isn’t given to any other creature. And that is why Man is Ashraf ul Maqlooq.

  86. #86 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 17, 2009 - 5:06 AM

    Theo # 59 I want you to read this carefully please.

    You have given various examples above by quoting Einstein’s theories and what not.

    I don’t deny man’s achievements in fact I applaud whats done by the great people like Einstein and others. And even our religion emphasizes the need for acquiring knowledge and education. There is a Hadith saying, “Seek knowledge though it be in China,” meaning, even if you have to go as far as China. In those days it was extremely difficult to go to China. Anyways…..

    The science of modern cosmology, observational and theoretical, clearly indicates that, at one point in time, the whole universe was nothing but, a cloud of “smoke” i.e. an opaque highly dense and hot gaseous composition. This is one of the undisputed principles of standard modern cosmology, agreed? Scientists now can observe new stars forming out of the remnants of that “smoke”, agreed or not?

    The illuminating stars we see at night were just as was the whole universe, in that “smoke” material. God has said in the Quran:

    Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke… (Quran, 41:11)

    Because the earth and the heavens above (the sun, the moon, stars, planets, galaxies, etc.) have been formed from this same “smoke,” we conclude that the earth and the heavens were one connected entity.

    In your comment #76 to iPOD you have said:

    “So the destruction of entire universe would be an absurd idea and even most of our Milkyway galaxy would not be affected.”

    Your perception is based on Man’s limited knowledge and the laws of Physics that man has made which are not yet perfect and new scientists keep on bringing new theories which are always challenged and proved either wrong or, imperfect.

    Whereas, the Creator of this Universe is Perfect. He did not create the Universe in bits and bobs. It was all done at the same time and He created everything to perfection. Do you see anything imperfect in this Universe?

    Hence, the destruction would also be the way He describes and not the way you think it would not affect the Milky Way or other Galaxies in the Universe would be affected.

    To make it more clear to you once again I am using the same verse 41:11 above, then out of this homogeneous “smoke,” they formed and separated from each other.

    God has said in the Quran to make it more clear:

    “Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?… (Quran, 21:30)”

    On the subject of singularity please read my comment # 9 above. Or, let me copy paste the last paragraph here for Your Laziness. 🙂

    ” Tawhid (unification) is the singularity. All vanishes into that singularity, and at that point, all becomes one. Unity is total, like a vast ocean. Like the moth going around the flame of the candle and when you enter the flame, you are the flame and your identity vanishes.

    The singularity remains and it is something which cannot be viewed from the outside. It is only when you pass the event-horizon and enter it, that it becomes perceivable. Then you are it, so what is there to perceive? Who remains who is perceiving?”


  87. #87 by Steeler on January 20, 2009 - 2:15 PM

    Javed, good analogy and good references, but like I said in my posts any scientific theory can be proved or disregarded upon further evidence and progresses in science but the idea of God and religion is something that is based on “Faith” and thus remain suspicious. I cannot reply to your references because I want to keep a glimpse of faith and it’s sensitive to most but as we all discuss Islam would you and I or the others would still be Muslims if we were not born Muslims? Same goes for other religions.

  88. #88 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 20, 2009 - 3:57 PM

    Theo, I will get back to you on this, but right now as I said the Obama Celebrations are going to be live on TV …….. so laterz dude.

  89. #89 by Vanilla pod on January 21, 2009 - 12:59 PM

    I somewhat agree with Theo that if i were born in a family with another religion, it would be very hard for me to explore other religions such as islam. people from all religions think theirs is the best religion like how we think ours is the best and i would really not even think of changing mine.

    the other thing is that in islam, it is said that only muslims will enter jannat, all the rest will have their jannat in this world. but i know a lot of people from other religions and even athiests who perform good deeds to help others but they are not exactly living in conditions that could be classed as having jannat on earth. according to me, they should be allowed to enter jannat too. and what about the babies from other religions that die and children who are too young to understand religion, where will they go?

    maybe Javed can help me with this.

  90. #90 by Awas on January 21, 2009 - 2:23 PM


    Good posers from you too. I have never found Theo’s theology outright disdainful or unpalatable as generally we all often think like that or at least some anyway.

    As intelligent beings, thoughts like that come to us naturally and these are matters that need sensible discussion involving logical thought process. Some Mullahas will have you believe, NO…if Quran says that then that’s it, no ifs and butts and would even quote you some verses. But that attitude is ignorance and unnatural. As humans we always yearn for more of everything even more knowledge. Hence it is said-in the quest for knowledge go to even China if you have to.

    I’m not sending you to China by the way, unless Theo is feeling generous 🙂 , just making a point that such questions do come in our mind. Not only that people of other religions think that theirs is the best religion but atheists think “religion” what nonsense? So, all have their own convictions.

    Basically each community wherever they were living in all corners of the earth had some kind of their own rules, laws, ethics, fears etc to create some kind of order for all. Some became religions; some just whatever the tribal chief said, became law. Pharaohs and Caesars were themselves considered Gods. Personally, I wouldn’t mind being one of those 🙂 In remote Amazon and some other corners of the world, there are still tribes who still don’t know about any other religion even though some missionaries have taken hold of some tribes by offering them tobacco and drink.

    Anyways, to answer your question “what about babies”? Well we say they are always born Muslim until they start to get taught any different. So, there you go…I hope you feel better now!!!

    One more question. As there are very few Muslims (I mean good ones), is Jannat a very small place? Size of a blue lagoon in Bora Bora comes to mind 🙂 Is Dosugh big enough to accommodate many billions that are likely to go there and even many more billions who are already dead? Mind you reincarnators don’t have that problem as for them what goes just comes back in another shape. Interesting!

  91. #91 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 21, 2009 - 3:25 PM


    Thanks for saying maybe Javed can help me with this……. LOL… Javed is neither a Mullah nor an authority on this subject. But, bakaoz you have placed so much trust and confidence in me, I will try to share whatever knowledge I have ……

    1. First, you must know the meaning of a revert. In Islam, a non-Muslim who converts and becomes a Muslim, should not be referred as a convert, but a revert. Because, according to the Islamic Faith ALL children are deemed to be Allah’s children and by virtue of that they are Muslims. And, knowingly, consciously when they embrace Islam they are reverts. That is, they have come back to see the Light that Allah want’s them to see.

    2. As regards innocent children, babies or even ignorant blokes (living in wilderness or in places where there is no one to tell them about Islam) if they remain nice in this world and do good deeds and, if they have not been taught or enlightened about Islam by someone or anyone and they keep practicing another religion, or remain Atheists, who do not believe in God and, those who were born prior to the advent of Islam and, they have done good deeds and never harmed other fellow human beings, surely Allah understands ALL this, and it is He Who decides who shall be rewarded or punished.

    Therefore, it would be wrong to assume that they will not enter Jannat or they will go to hell. Only Allah knows best about it.

    As regards owning and practicing a religion in which you are born. Yes, it is a very difficult and a very daunting decision to think about changing one’s religion. Because, the early age is the most impressionable age where the psyche of a child is imbued in the dye that he / she has dealt with since childhood and it is not easy to change religion. But, once again in this world and in this age where most people have access to almost everything in terms of acquiring knowledge in almost every sphere, then it is also one’s own moral responsibility to find out about other religions, study and compare the differences between them and see which one is more appealing to them.

    Unfortunately, people do not pay much heed towards religion, even we as Muslims do not bother to study the Qur’an in depth and understand the true meanings and the bounties that are offered by the Creator. We are lost in the material world.

    “Rivalry in the material world has distracted you until ye came to the graves.”

    Surah 102 AT-TAKATHUR … Read the whole Surah with meanings and you will get the answer.


    About ALL children are deemed to be Allah’s children and by virtue of that they are Muslims. I will write separately about it.

  92. #92 by Vanilla pod on January 21, 2009 - 3:49 PM

    Thank you Javed and Awas

  93. #93 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 22, 2009 - 5:52 AM


    There is one more thing that I forgot to mention above which a few schools of thought have talk about and they have difference of opinion on this subject, and they talk about it thus:

    Under the common law, which is a man made law, “ignorance of the law is no excuse.” And, even the children and the ignorant are punished if they commit a crime and are dealt with according to and under the Juvenile penal codes etc.

    Their argument is under the man made laws you don’t pardon even the children if they commit a crime or break the law. So, how do you expect God to forgive you or pardon you or let you go unpunished if you break His law? Surely, God is more merciful and He does pardon everyone whoever seeks for forgiveness from Him. Therefore, we do not know to what extent one gets his punishment or rewards in such cases.

  94. #94 by Vanilla pod on January 22, 2009 - 11:34 AM


    thank you for the maidaan-e-Arafat incident and other comments, very interesting and thought provoking. have definitely cleared up some doubts that i had before.

  95. #95 by farrah k raja on January 22, 2009 - 11:48 AM

    ALL children are deemed to be Allah’s children and by virtue of that they are Muslims.

    Excuse me since when have Muslims become children of ALLAH?

    We are all Children of Adam and following the same belief as Abraham .
    Allah is a Creator,He is neither the father nor the mother .He is alone.

  96. #96 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 22, 2009 - 7:05 AM

    ALL children are deemed to be Allah’s children and by virtue of that they are Muslims. Not in the physical sense which is clear in Surah Al Ikhlas, “He begotten NOT, nor was begotten.” But, in the sense we are creations of Allah and as children we are very pure i.e. b4 the malice gets into us that we acquire in this world via greed, lust, that Shaitaan brings in us.

    To explain this, I need to go back, when I went to perform my Hajj. At the grounds of Arafaat where every single person has to be present in person, which is one of the essential Arakaans of Hajj, the others such as stoning or sacrifice etc., can be delegated to someone else to do it on your behalf. And, if you are not present at Arafaat, your Hajj is not complete.

    The Arafaat scene is a very touching moment in one’s life it is so realistic so powerful that you don’t think of anything else when you are there except for asking Allah to forgive your sins. I am sure no one can forget the Arafaat scene and the feelings that emerge after being there on the Hajj day. Some say it is similar to the Day of Judgment.

    The Imam who was leading our Asr prayers gave a sermon and I would like to share it here, it may not be his exact words but, whatever I remember I will narrate it, he said:

    When Prophet Ibrahim made the Kabbah, Allah s.w.a.t., asked him to give Adhaan – call for prayers – and he looked around there was no one there for miles and miles and reluctantly he asked, ‘Oh, Allah there is no one here to whom shall I call here to come for prayers?’ Allah s.w.a.t., replied your job is to make a call for prayers and my job is to bring the people. So, he went ahead and gave the Adhaan, called people for prayers.

    When Hz. Ibrahim Alai Al-Salaam gave Adhaan, he had faith in Allah and we see today that more than 3 million people perform Hajj each year, this is a matter of faith and conviction. SubhanAllah, faith is to believe what we do not see and the reward of this faith is what we believe.

    According to the Imam at Arafaat, (he was substantiating his narrations with some references from various Al Hadith by saying that) at the time when Ibrahim Alaih Al-Salaam gave Adhaan, every single soul on this universe heard it and responded by saying: Labbaik Allahumma Labbaik. “O My Lord I am here.” Hence, every single soul which includes the unborn children have also heard it and said, Labbaik Allahuma Labbaik.

    Therefore, whoever in his/her life time says ‘Labbaik Allahuma Labbaik’ from the bottom of his heart would be able to go to Hajj-e-Baitullah. It is a matter of Niyyah (intention) if your Niyyah is pure you will definitely be the privileged one to go there. Hence it is not restricted to any particular race, sect but, for those who have faith in Allah and He is the one who makes everything possible for you and He is the one who forgives all our sins.

    Since Obama has been elected as the new President of America, I see every single black American is saying with firm belief and conviction that, “In this country if you have a dream and you work for it, you can achieve your dreams come true.” Obviously before Obama it was unthinkable to have a black President for the USA.

    So, in a man made country, with man made laws it is possible to achieve your goals & ambitions, then why is it not possible for anyone to achieve anything they want to be in this world? And, this world has been created for us by our Creator and He made everything possible for us, its a matter of not only asking but, working for it in the right direction according to the guidelines He has provided us in His Book. It is for us to Believe it or NOT.

  97. #97 by Awas on January 22, 2009 - 1:33 PM

    ALL children are deemed to be Allah’s children and by virtue of that they are Muslims”.

    Yeah, sounds a bit similar to what the Christians say that “Jesus is the son of God”.

    However, what Javed must have meant was what I said above: “they are always born Muslim until they start to get taught any different

    By the way, you didn’t answer the question (that I was hoping from a scientific angle) that I posed in the last paragraph of my comment 90? Maybe Theo can?

  98. #98 by Steeler on January 22, 2009 - 2:00 PM

    Awas @ 90
    Awas, it’s an interesting question! I think in Islam all Muslims will go to heaven sooner or later but they have to pay their “dues” in Hell first. Initially “Dosugh” sure will be huge in size. In business terms the construction of a huge “Jannat” is not an economical or optimum idea, so I would think God will add phases to it as more people will be allowed to enter and I think in the similar fashion “Dosugh” will be phased out.

    Evolution of Religion

    Some scholars say religion is primarily a search for security and not a search for truth. Religion is what we so often use to bank the fires of our anxiety. That is why religion tends toward becoming excessive, neurotic, controlling and even evil. That is why a religious government is always a cruel government. People need to understand that questioning and doubting are healthy, human activities to be encouraged not to be feared.

    Through the bulk of human evolution, humans lived in small nomadic bands practicing a hunter gatherer lifestyle. The religious practices of hunter gatherers revolve around shamanism, ancestor worship and animism. The emergence of complex and organized religions can be traced to the period when humans abandoned their nomadic hunter gatherer lifestyles in order to begin farming during the Neolithic period. Humans began domesticating crops and animals around 10,000 BCE. Crop production led to the emergence of the first villages, chiefdoms, states, nations and empires. The societies born out of the Neolithic revolution were characterized by high population densities, complex labor diversification, trading economies, centralized administrations and political structures, and hierarchical ideologies.

    Organized religion served to justify the central authority, which in turn possessed the right to collect taxes in return for providing social and security services to the state. The empires of Ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia were theocracies with chiefs, kings and emperors playing dual roles of political and spiritual leaders. Virtually all state societies and chiefdoms around the world have similar political structures where political authority is justified by divine sanction

    Today, most people follow either:
    A monotheistic religion, in which a single male god is worshipped, or
    A henotheistic religion — a religion which recognizes a single main deity, but which recognizes other gods and goddesses, heroes, or saints as facets or manifestations or aspects of that supreme God.

    Most religions teach that they were directly revealed by their deity/deities to humanity, and are unrelated to other world religions. However there is considerable historical evidence from ancient times that religions in the area from India to the Middle East shared many religious beliefs. One example of this are:

    The many passages in the Hebrew Scriptures which contain concepts or passages taken from Egyptian, Babylonian and other nearby Pagan religions.

    Many of the events in the life of Jesus as recorded in the Christian Scriptures (New Testament) appear to have been derived from earlier Hinduism and other Pagan religious sources.

  99. #99 by Steeler on January 22, 2009 - 2:01 PM

    Morality, does it come from religions?

    Human morality may be grown out of primate sociality. Though morality is a unique human trait, many social animals, such as primates, dolphins and whales, have been known to exhibit pre-moral sentiments. The characteristics that are shared by humans and other social animals, particularly the great apes include, attachment and bonding, cooperation and mutual aid, sympathy and empathy, conflict resolution and peacemaking, deception and deception detection, community concern and caring about what others think about you, and awareness of and response to the social rules of the group.

    All social animals have had to restrain or alter their behavior for group living to be worthwhile. Pre-moral sentiments evolved in primate societies as a method of restraining individual selfishness and building more cooperative groups. For any social species, the benefits of being part of an altruistic group should outweigh the benefits of individualism. For example, lack of group cohesion could make individuals more vulnerable to attack from outsiders. Being part of group may also improve the chances of finding food. This is evident among animals that hunt in packs to take down large or dangerous prey.

    All social animals have hierarchical societies in which each member knows its own place. Social order is maintained by certain rules of expected behavior and dominant group members enforce order through punishment. However, higher order primates also have a sense of reciprocity and fairness. Chimpanzees remember who did them favors and who did them wrong. For example, chimpanzees are more likely to share food with individuals who have previously groomed them.

    Humans enforce their society’s moral codes much more rigorously with rewards, punishments and reputation building. People also apply a degree of judgment and reason, not seen in the animal kingdom. Religion emerged after morality and built upon morality by expanding the social scrutiny of individual behavior to include supernatural agents. By including ever-watchful ancestors, spirits and gods in the social realm, humans discovered an effective strategy for restraining selfishness and building more cooperative groups. The adaptive value of religion would have enhanced group survival.

  100. #100 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 22, 2009 - 2:24 PM

    I stand corrected on the confusion about the word, “All Children are Allah’s Children” it should have been as “All Children are Allah’s Creation” Awas is right that I wasn’t using it in the sense that it is making an obvious and literal interpretation like the Christian faith where Jesus is son of God. No, that was not the way I wanted to use it.

    Yes, as Muslims we do have faith that, Allah is the One and Only. He begotten not and nor was begotten and there is none comparable unto Him. But, in dealing with this English language we do use the this expression Man is God’s creation and we arrive in this world as children, hence we are God’s children. But, the main purpose was not to create confusion but, to highlight the point that, according to Islamic faith every child before he/she is born is a Muslim. Every soul that is yet to born is a Muslim.

    In any case ALL creation belongs to Allah and He is the Creator of these Universe and, there is no doubt or dispute about it.

  101. #101 by Awas on January 22, 2009 - 2:25 PM


    Nice thoughts there…more later, but…

    I think in Islam all Muslims will go to heaven sooner or later

    You really got wishful thinking there…for the likes you and me there is no chance…burn in hell they would say…stick together buddy…that’s all we can do 🙂

  102. #102 by farrah k raja on January 22, 2009 - 2:35 PM

    Awas!Just we have to be careful about our wording in particular to God and Prophet Muhammad .
    I disagree that all people are born Muslim.All people are born with good nature ,this life and human being is just a balance of good and evil.
    I do not think Satan is something outside it is inside our needs our thoughts.
    Religion controls us subjugates us.That is why West has discarded it .Human Being is the Crown of creation and it is the Will of Man which makes him feel omnipotent.When he is not.This very thought is the whole concept of Milton’s Paradise Lost.

  103. #103 by farrah k raja on January 22, 2009 - 2:40 PM

    Of course I understand the intent of using the sentence I didnot think for a second that it meant in a Christian way.
    In present times I am just surprised how much Jews are influencing and emphasising ,”that Jesus Chriest was a Jew”.Yes he was but no he meant end of Judaism and begining of Bible and Christianity.
    There are very delicate differences between these three religions.Particularly regarding Jesus being son of God or not,I just wanted to draw the attention.

  104. #104 by JAVED A. KHAN on January 22, 2009 - 3:25 PM


    Your question: “Morality, does it come from religions?” Followed by statements mainly comparing Man with Animals.

    We have talked about this subject that humans are Ashraful Maqlooq. I will quote again: Surah At Tin, chapter 95 – 4 and 95 – 5

    Surely We created Man of the best stature
    Then We reduced him to the lowest of the low.

    I will touch this animal and man subject in the end because, the subject of Shaitan needs to be cleared first, which is also related to this topic of Ashraf ul Maqlooq or Maqlooqaat.

    The general belief even among some of the Muslims that, Shaitan / Iblees was once a Farishta or an Angel is wrong. That is the Christian faith or belief that they think he was an Angel. According to Islamic faith he was, rather he is a Jinn.

    The difference between Jinn and Farishtay is, the later have been created solely for the purpose of worshiping Allah whereas, among the Jinns there are good ones and bad ones. Some of them worship Allah and some don’t. Shaitan or Iblees was known to be a very good Jinn and he used to do good deeds and also used to praise Allah all the time like, Farishtay. And he even used to move among the Farishtay. BUT, he is still a Jinn and his status has not changed.

    When Allah created Adam and later Eve, He ordered all his Angels and the good Jinns to bow or prostate before Adam. ALL but, Iblees refused. Because of this rebellious nature, it is said in Chapter 7:12, The Qur’an that he was born out of fire. Since feelings of human beings remain hidden, Iblees/Shaitan is referred as a Jinn in the Holy Qur’an Chapter 18:50. And Jinn means one who is hidden (Raghib).

    Along with the feelings or emotions, the man is also given the discretion by virtue of which he is capable of disobedience at the time of his birth and these accompany him through his life span (15:36, The Qur’an).

    The Qur’an has termed Iblees / Shaitan as the two faces of the same to the foreground. These are termed as projection, repression, fantasy, denial of reality, rationalization, intellectualism and reaction formation. All these varieties of adjustive mechanisms have the underlying roots in disappointment. And a feeling of rebellion or aggression closely follows this.

    In this way there is clearly a direct and deep-rooted connection between the feelings of rebellion and disappointment experienced by a person. This is also exemplified as “Iblees and Shaitan relationship”.

    You have talked about ‘social orders’ among animals. But, you fail to see that the Qur’an also wants to establish such a social order, where chances of disappointments don’t occur (39:53, The Qur’an), as His resources of nourishment are boundless for everything and abundant throughout the Universe (7:156, The Qur’an). So in the Qur’anic Social Order, the feelings of Iblisiat or Satanism cannot overcome anyone; particularly in respect of those who follow His laws (15:43, The Qur’an).

    You are defending your point by giving a logical reasoning that animals possess this degree of moral and ethical codes before humans were created. YES, I don’t deny that, it is there in their genes because, Allah has created every single thing in this Universe. We don’t know that the birds when they fly and stretch their wings, they are glorifying Allah.

    BUT, when He created Man, He said, this is the best of ALL my creations. To discuss and compare these aspects between Man and Animals, I need to start a fresh comment. But, before I end, I would like to clear the doubts about rewards and punishment that you have talked about.

    The Qur’an has described the results of misdeeds as the torturing fire! As the fire burns everything, so the bad deeds burn the human personality and stop its growth.

    According to the Qur’an, life is a continuous process and has to go a long way. If life is led according to the laws given by its Creator, Allah, then its latent potentialities are developed and enable it (life) to continue progressing and going from one stage to another. But if the potentialities/capacities are not developed, it doesn’t have the strength to travel or grow further and stops at one stage or point. This process of stoppage is called Al-Jaheem in the Qur’anic terminology.

    Life is like an ever-flowing stream, the moment it stops, it turns into a pond, then gets stagnant. Out of dust rose Adam, and out of good deeds would rise the Man for the world hereafter…………………… More later.

  105. #105 by Vanilla pod on January 22, 2009 - 3:54 PM


    I agree with you on the thought that people are not born muslim. I think the criteria of being muslim is when you are born in a muslim family and then later on you accept kalma-e-shahada. or maybe i am wrong…Javed help! and i also agree with Javed that Allah is the most merciful and its up to Him to decide whether he will accept the innocent children in heaven (which is likely that He will)and that we are Allah creation, His property.


    Theo has answered your question very well indeed. i dont have anything scientific to say to you. but i do think that heaven will expand as more people enter it and price of bad deeds will have to be paid first cos jannat is the ultimate place of residence. But i do know that there are seven ‘darjay’ of jannat. those who are very pious will go to jannat-e-firdous, which is the best one out of the other ones.
    Also when u said that u and Theo may not be entered in jannat cos of your sinful deeds (God knows what sins u both hav committed :D) i am sure u will be able to enter jannat cos there must be some sort of naikis that you may perform. e.g. when i joined LS, you welcomed me and made me feel like a part the crew, i was very pleased and thankful, surely that was a naiki.
    When we are concerned about someone, or even do things for our family, children, that is all naiki and the farishtay that note good deeds down, note a naiki the very moment this thought comes into mind, even if the deed has not been peformed. but when we think of taunting sumone or being bad, the farishtay dont write it until you have committed that deed. so u see, how much Allah wants us to be good and is pleased when we do good.

  106. #106 by Vanilla pod on January 22, 2009 - 4:03 PM


    i read somewhere, i think it was Jane Eyre, that conventionality is not morality and self-righteousness is not religion. and i also said earlier people who do not believe in God or those who do not belong to a religion also do good deeds. they prolly dont have a concept of entering jannat if they do so but that makes them feel good.and what do they get by doing good and getting nuthing in return? thats morality. but he who has a religion may always want to do good but the one who doesnt will have nuthing to fear even if he does bad things!

  107. #107 by farrah k raja on January 22, 2009 - 4:46 PM

    Hi Vanilla!
    What I appreciate about Islam most is ,it does not segregate among its believers.Weather they are born Muslims or weather they accept Islam at latter stage .
    Islam is very simple,the major Haddood or lines which are drawn for human,do not transgress that.
    If you do Transgress, do repent sincerely.Try to avoid breaking it deliberately at least.
    Islam is a very rationale religion as well ,so the biggest sin is Shirik.So a person who believes in KAlama Tayabah is basically a Muslim.Rest are just different aspects of being Muslim.This recognition of Allah being one and only ,for this recognition God has bestowed us this free will and brain.
    So when intelligent people have a choice to make a decision and they decide that no they have no Creater and they are intelligent or architect of themselves,that is the unpardonable transgression in the principals of Theology.
    So the question comes to basic why all muslims will go to Heaven.It is for this reason they will go to Heaven they recognise that God is one .I believe not only Muslims ,Christians and Jews would be there as well.
    I believe God is Beautiful and Merciful.
    Morality and principals are for our own good.

  108. #108 by Steeler on January 22, 2009 - 4:50 PM

    Vanilla iPod

    Good points there! For most people Religion does instill a sense of security, peace of mind security, and order in life. Regardless how these ideas were originated, religions provide a way to live the life and also a sense of purpose.

    To follow up on what you wrote about who goes to heaven and who doesn’t, I wonder how God can punish us when he loves us 70 times more than a mother. I mean my mother won’t punish or think ill for me no matter how rebellious or bad I get. So sometime I think God will be more merciful than what we are leaded to believe.

    To me, morality is a relative term. If one is subjected to certain circumstances, and survival becomes the sole purpose, people do all kind of things to survive as their survival instinct takes over. I’m not talking about life and death situation; I see it in every facet of life. Like I said in my previous posts certain attribute of morality may be offspring of human evolution process. It will be plain generalization if I say all people of faith have morals and all who don’t believe have no morals. It depends on the person. Sometime I think us being good and bad in the World could be just because of our genetic makeup. With that I mean we become good, bad, or in between by “default” just like having certain gene could cause cancer and other diseases. Just like the diseases which are caused by exposure to certain agents, if we are subjected to certain situations we might become “morally ill”. It’s a wild thought but then again I have a wild imagination -:)

  109. #109 by Steeler on January 22, 2009 - 4:51 PM

    Vanilla iPod

    Good points there! For most people Religion does instill a sense of security, peace of mind, and order in life. Regardless how these ideas were originated, religions provide a way to live the life and also a sense of purpose.

    To follow up on what you wrote about who goes to heaven and who doesn’t, I wonder how God can punish us when he loves us 70 times more than a mother. I mean my mother won’t punish or think ill for me no matter how rebellious or bad I get. So sometime I think God will be more merciful than what we are leaded to believe.
    o me, morality is a relative term. If one is subjected to certain circumstances, and survival becomes the sole purpose, people do all kind of things to survive as their survival instinct takes over. I’m not talking about life and death situation; I see it in every facet of life. Like I said in my previous posts certain attribute of morality may be offspring of human evolution process. It will be plain generalization if I say all people of faith have morals and all who don’t believe have no morals. It depends on the person. Sometime I think us being good and bad in the World could be just because of our genetic makeup. With that I mean we become good, bad, or in between by “default” just like having certain gene could cause cancer and other diseases. Just like the diseases which are caused by exposure to certain agents, if we are subjected to certain situations we might become “morally ill”. It’s a wild thought but then again I have a wild imagination -:)

  110. #110 by Steeler on January 22, 2009 - 4:52 PM

    Vanilla iPod

    Good points there! For most people Religion does instill a sense of security, peace of mind, and order in life. Regardless how these ideas were originated, religions provide a way to live the life and also a sense of purpose.

    To follow up on what you wrote about who goes to heaven and who doesn’t, I wonder how God can punish us when he loves us 70 times more than a mother. I mean my mother won’t punish or think ill for me no matter how rebellious or bad I get. So sometime I think God will be more merciful than what we are leaded to believe.

    To me, morality is a relative term. If one is subjected to certain circumstances, and survival becomes the sole purpose, people do all kind of things to survive as their survival instinct takes over. I’m not talking about life and death situation; I see it in every facet of life. Like I said in my previous posts certain attribute of morality may be offspring of human evolution process. It will be plain generalization if I say all people of faith have morals and all who don’t believe have no morals. It depends on the person. Sometime I think us being good and bad in the World could be just because of our genetic makeup. With that I mean we become good, bad, or in between by “default” just like having certain gene could cause cancer and other diseases. Just like the diseases which are caused by exposure to certain agents, if we are subjected to certain situations we might become “morally ill”. It’s a wild thought but then again I have a wild imagination -:)

  111. #111 by farrah k raja on January 22, 2009 - 4:54 PM

    like the way you have developed the arguement I mean social and moral aspect of religion.I have spent a lot of my life alone.I have discovered that we need religion or belief for our personal self.
    For example it is very important for me when ever I resign or am tired I believe there is Higher Source which will Help me out.also when things go wrong ,I believe they will go right because there is ALlah who has the power to set things right.
    Also it is very strange phenomenon to offer prayer,one does not feel alone because in prayers you are conversing,you are obedient and you are expecting.
    This is most shocking for me to have this bonding with the abstract.
    Anyway this is my personal view ,agreement on this is not necessary.

  112. #112 by Vanilla pod on January 22, 2009 - 5:12 PM


    dont tell me ur mum never sent u to the naughty corner or gave u a thappar when u were naughty 😀

  113. #113 by Steeler on January 22, 2009 - 5:14 PM


    I feel the same way sometime. I feel bad when I do something bad and feel good when I do something good. I thank God when I’m happy and complain when I’m in trouble. Is it something “built in”? I don’t know. However, when I look at my life I tend to believe the notion that, “everything happen for a reason”. I mean my whole life is a chain of events that are interconnected, some I had control over and some I didn’t. So we’ll find out when we die, won’t we -:)

  114. #114 by Steeler on January 22, 2009 - 5:17 PM


    No the “thupper” and whipping part was the specialty of “Hot Tempered” Pathan dad, LOL. But point taken none the less.

  115. #115 by Awas on January 22, 2009 - 7:25 PM


    Good contributions all round…very interesting.

    Theo’s middle name must be Logic…

    I guess it applies to us all to feel good with good deeds and wish for nice things to happen in bad times.

    VP, it was good of you to remind us about 7 darjay of Jannat…

    The reason I said probably hell is for many reasons, like:
    – rare nimaz, roza, zikaat etc
    – not to thank God as much as one should
    – disobeying maan/baap when growing up
    – greed of worldly goods and desires
    – not telling khansahab off when he talks dirty 🙂
    – having a go at Abdul-Ghani (sometimes)

    Good deeds:
    – welcoming you here and making you feel better (only one!)
    – what else?

    Its hard to think of many, other than generally being nice to people, kind and having a good heart…that’s all 😦

    Does it count for Jannat comparing to that Imaam I know in the Mosque?

  116. #116 by Vanilla pod on January 22, 2009 - 8:06 PM


    aww dont feel bad…being nice to people, kind and having a good heart, makes u do lots of good things and the niyyat of doing good things is what counts! and u know like Farrah said Allah is most forgiving and ofcourse you will go to heaven (after some time).

    Also, if you repent with a pure heart then ur sins can be forgiven, but repeating those sins again after repenting may be a bit tricky.

  117. #117 by Awas on January 22, 2009 - 8:12 PM

    You are just trying to make me feel better… 🙂


  118. #118 by Vanilla pod on January 22, 2009 - 8:15 PM

    U r welcome 😀

  119. #119 by khansahab on January 22, 2009 - 8:25 PM


    I believe for people like you, the test is more than merely whether we have performed the 5 basic tenets of our Deen physically as well as in spirit, and having a good heart and being open and tolerant towards others.

    There is an added requirement and added responsibility, perhaps because of people like you becoming a victim of their own success. This is to reason, to look at 2 arbitrary situations and distinguish one from the other (I have alluded to this prior as well). Judiciousness, and the ability to understand the character of another, is also very important.

    There are certain rare values contained within rare people and these values do not come from having a degree, going to a school, coming from a certain socio economic background, or being brought up in a certain way necessarily. It is probably a mixture of everything, but maturity, reason and judiciousness acquired from a young age is a necessity.

    Here I am not suggesting these people are intellectuals who will become scientists and discover cures for diseases or other planets. I am only suggesting that one adopts a certain thinking pattern that one exercises on a daily basis. The exercise of this thinking pattern, in my opinion, is a virtue that is priceless, and that places of opinions of these rare individuals higher, more reasonable, more judicious and more mature than of other people. Unfortunately, these other people often don’t realise this, for a variety of reasons.

    I think this maturity, reasonableness and judiciousness cannot possibly be linked to anything that upsets God or deviates from religion. Of course, with these qualities, there is a higher responsibility for people like us to influence public opinion. I think one of the things we might be held accountable for in the Afterlife, is that due to these qualities, how did we benefit 1) Islam 2)Pakistan 3) The World?

  120. #120 by Awas on January 22, 2009 - 8:48 PM


    Really wonderful thoughts there…and all vey true.

    I think what most people forget is that there is a lot more importance given to Haqooq-il-Ibaad than Haqooq-Ullah.

    I know many people who religiously perform all 5 tenants and then taunt others to do the same but most of the time all they do is back-biting, wishing ill-will for others, intolerant and injudicious, lie, and all that stuff. They often don’t realise that how they misbehave in their normal daily life with other mankind (Haqooq-il-Ibaad) cancels out their religious good deeds. I find such people the worst.

  121. #121 by farrah, k.raja on January 22, 2009 - 9:06 PM

    I have served my purpose of life and intellect ,that is to realise Allah.Rest is as you said He loves us more than 70 mothers,yes I do believe in that.But I think when I thank Him for everything and I wish to be guided by Him in everything of course He will forgive me my intentional and unintentional transgressions at the end I am just a human being .He is Most Gracious,Merciful,Beneficient I beleive whatever my sins are His Merci and Generocity is bigger than that.So I am always assured we will rest in peace here and afterwards.
    Good thought,essence is try to be a good human being.
    More than influence I beleive to touch people’s life for that all we have to do is to be kind to people .Kindness,Merci,Compassion and Love are not adjectives these are principals of life and it pays you hugely.This is the real wealth.
    Anyway Blessed are the people who follow Abraham and Prophet and remember he is peace for the world and so are his followers.Prophet Muhammad PBUH.

  122. #122 by khansahab on January 22, 2009 - 9:07 PM


    I agree with you.

    I hope not to offend Allah tala by saying this, but from my observation people who follow the 5 arkaan zealously are mostly highly biased and bigoted people.

  123. #123 by Dimple Rosy Cheeks on February 12, 2009 - 1:01 AM

    You guys can all help me this semester. One of the modules I have picked is ‘Introduction to Islamic Law’. We will be having 2 hours lectures and then a 2hour seminar every Friday, starting from this week.

    I have just received my textbooks for this module, and I think for the first time in my degree, I am actually going to enjoy a module.

    We will be starting with discussions on Islamic Jurisprudence and emphasis upon the Hanafi, Malaki, Shafih and Hanbali school of thoughts.

    I am hoping to impart knowledge on you guys 😀 and you can share your ideas with me too.

  124. #124 by Vanilla pod on February 13, 2009 - 9:36 PM


    Sure, we will help you out with whatever we can 🙂

  125. #125 by farrah, k.raja on February 14, 2009 - 12:26 AM

    My peice of advice actually is that with Islamic Shariat Law ,we have to be extremely careful.Saudia is best example of it and do not hesitate to critise Talibaan the worst example of Shariat.
    What Zia implemented was half cooked.
    Shariat law needs the support of whole society it can not be implemented half way.
    shariat law in Pakistan and Afghanistan meant exactly opposite of what law is meant to do,to provide Justice.
    Shariat law needs alot of new clauses if implemented in countries like Pakistan and
    It is based absolutely on witness and evidence in absence of that ,there is no case.So the cases where extreme Shariat punishments were decreed against women victim were absolutely miscarriage of Justice.
    Asma Jahangir book on Hadood Ordinance is extremely important to see how it can affects adversely .
    You would probably be concentrating on marriage and divorce matters.Men should not be allowed to marry twice at the same time,unless
    1.the wife is terminally ill
    2.First wife has strong illness or cannot produce children.
    feel free to discuss I am interested and do enlighten me,I have not read the Imams but know that they were men.
    After the imaams religion ha sfell into the hands of Mullahs and have done a lot of demage.
    Shiate are quite good in interpretting religion ,keeping in line with the most recent challenges to Islam.
    Stem cells research is going on big time in Iran for heart transplant etc.
    Approach everything with caution particularly new laws which do make “Muatta” legal and apply your personal wisdom and rationale to deliver justice.

  126. #126 by Dimple Rosy Cheeks on March 8, 2009 - 4:18 PM

    Honour Killings

    There is nothing ‘honourable’ about such killings. Such killings are not just confined to the Asian sub continent. They are universal but say if a Muslim woman is killed it is automatically categorised as an ‘honour’ killing. If one looks towards the wider society, one will also see that such killings are more prevalent. For example, a Caucasian husband who kills his wife of a suspected affair would be deemed to be acting out a ‘crime of passion’. Yet is not one and the same thing? This begs one to ask the question why there are so many discrepancies between the ways in which such similar killings are categorised so differently.

    Speaking from a Muslim perspective, one can highlight the notion of ‘honour’ killings is a prime example of going against the fundamental teachings of the Quran. There is an effective body of law (Sharia) already in practice which deals with cases where illicit sexual relations have occurred. Islam does not teach us to take the law into our hands. Most ‘honour’ killings are based upon mere presumptions that a woman (in the majority of these cases it is the woman who are killed) has indulged in illicit sexual relations. The notion of honour is emphasised in the Quran and punishment for indulging in such actions are punishable as per the punishment laid down in the Quran. There is no mention whatsoever in the Quran, to kill the accused parties by taking the law into one’s own hands.

    Islamic law places heavy reliance upon the importance of witnesses. For the accused party to be held guilty there is a need for four witnesses to witness the ‘dishonourable’ act. “. The accused will then be punished accordingly. The provisions for such punishment and acts are signified in Surah Nur (Chapter 24). Equally, it is important to note, that there are implications for those who slander or attempt to taint a woman’s honour. If one refers to the following Quranic citation, one can see these implications as being, “And those who accuse chaste women, and produce not four witnesses, flog them with eighty stripes, and reject their testimony forever, they indeed are the Fasiqun (liars, rebellious, disobedient to Allah)..” (as per 24:2-Surah Nur). Surely this also condemns the idea of honour killings? Are these same beings not going against the very fundamentals of their religion? These questions can be further reinforced by considering an example of the Beloved Prophet (pbuh). It is recorded that Aisha (RA), the Prophet’s (pbuh) wife had misplaced a necklace and had gone back into the wilderness in an attempt to find it. It had become late and time had passed (some believe it to be a couple of days) before Aisha (RA) returned to the camp where the Prophet (pbuh) was residing, accompanied by a member of the Prophet’s (pbuh) followers, who had attempted to go find Aisha (RA). Rumours were generated as per what had occurred between the two. The Prophet (pbuh) was deeply hurt by the rumours; however we should learn from this example, by considering the actions of the Prophet (pbuh). The Prophet (pbuh) despite being hurt by the rumours did not inflict hurt upon Aisha (RA). This example is also cited in Surah Nur “Verily! Those who brought forth the slander (against ‘Aishah (may Allah be pleased with her) the wife of the Prophet- pbuh) are a group among you. Consider it not a bad thing for you. Nay, it is good for you. Unto every man among them will be paid that which he had earned of the sin, and as for him among them who had the greater share therein, his will be a great torment” (as per 24:11).

    In conjunction with the above citation, there are numerous other citations which emphasise how frowned upon slander and rumours are. One will now highlight a few of these notable examples.

    Verily, those who accuse chaste women, who never even think of anything touching their chastity and are good believers, are cursed in this life and in the Hereafter, and for them will be a great torment, (as per Surah Nur 24:23)

    On the Day when their tongues, their hands, and their legs or feet will bear witness against them as to what they used to do. (as per Surah Nur 24:24)

    On that Day Allah will pay them the recompense of their deeds in full, and they will know that Allah, He is the Manifest Truth. (as per Surah Nur 24:25)

    Bad statements are for bad people (or bad women for bad men) and bad people for bad statements (or bad men for bad women). Good statements are for good people (or good women for good men) and good people for good statements (or good men for good women), such (good people) are innocent of (each and every) bad statement which they say, for them is Forgiveness, and Rizqun Karim (generous provision i.e.Paradise). (as per Surah Nur 24:26)

    One has attempted to highlight, that there are no Quranic provisions which encourage honour killings. Honour killings are allied with Islam, yet this is wholly a misconception, based upon cultural practices rather than Quranic or Sunnah teachings. In fact, there is a procedure in place to deal with cases of illicit sexual relations, which are not based upon presumption. Whether this is an effective practice, is another question. However, one can conclude that the practice of honour killings is not encouraged by Islamic teaching. Those who do partake in honour killings are misinformed of the teachings and therefore greater awareness needs to be availed in order to put an end to this dishonourable practice.

  127. #127 by Dimple Rosy Cheeks on March 8, 2009 - 4:20 PM


    Thank you for suggesting the work of Asma Jehangir. Currently in lectures we have discussed hadd/hudood laws and sanctions. Therefore this particular book will give some much needed further insight.

  128. #128 by JAVED A. KHAN on March 9, 2009 - 11:50 AM

    DRC – this is the same Asma Jehangir who went to India after the Mumbai Attack and to please Bal Thackery the leader of the Hindu Fundamentalist Party Shiv Sena, she wore the same saffron colour dress as Bal Thackery was wearing and sat next to him. And, that son of a gun, who openly says to all the Muslims in India, “either go to Pakistan or go to Khabrastan” and he doesn’t want any Pakistani to step on the soil of India which will make Bharat Mata (Mother India) impure.

    He allowed Asma Jehangir to interview him, WHY? Because, that MF wanted to be heard in Pakistan and also want to show it to Pakistanis that if their women come to India they must be dressed like him and respect him like she did.

    It was such a shameful and disgraceful act on part of Asma Jehangir to stoop at that level to please him for getting attention and recognition from the masses by whichever cheap way she can get. I have no respect for Asma Jehangir or, for those who admire and emulate her. Period.

  129. #129 by khansahab on March 9, 2009 - 11:58 AM

    This is the same Asma Jehangir who came in front of police near the Supreme Court is Islamabad and said to them, “Maar saktey ho mujhey? Maaro!” She was inciting civil disobedience and I am very happy she was not beaten up by the police because she would have blamed it on Musharraf and defamed him across the media.

    This is the same Asma Jehangir who was a guest in Burkha Dutt’s show in front of extremist Hindus who were saying India should go to war with Pakistan. Asma kept quiet about it, and instead told the Indians never to treat Pervez Musharraf “like a prince” because he was a dictator.

    Her country was being insulted, abused and irrationally blamed on that show, yet all she wanted to discuss was hatred for Musharraf, not terrorism, not Mumbai attacks, not the extremist reactions of the audience.

  130. #130 by JAVED A. KHAN on March 9, 2009 - 12:06 PM

    Asma Jehangir is hungry of attention, so let us not discuss that insignificant piece of trash.

  131. #131 by Dimple Rosy Cheeks on March 9, 2009 - 6:27 PM

    I agree with the Khansahab and Javed’s sentiments. I just want to acquaint myself with various writings on Hudood law in Pakistan and as Farrah suggested that particular piece I thought why not.

    I do agree that after Asma’s stunts in India, all respect for her was lost.

    What did you guys think to the piece on honour killings? I might concentrate on women rights and honour killings for my assessed essay..hmmmm.

  132. #132 by JAVED A. KHAN on March 9, 2009 - 8:26 PM

    DRC there is plenty of material on the Internet about Hudood law and also about honour killings. You may check out this website:

    This is my sister-in-law and her work is recognized by many. Let me know later.

  133. #133 by Dimple Rosy Cheeks on March 11, 2009 - 11:20 PM

    Thanks Javed!

  134. #134 by Mohammed Munir on August 30, 2009 - 7:37 AM

    In the name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful …


    Most Muslims who fast Ramadan focus on the benefits and rewards of it. But in doing so, we often make mistakes that instead of adding to our experience actually detract from it. Mistakes that can make us commercialize Ramadan as so many other religions have commercialized their sacred days. Insh’Allah the following serves as a reminder to myself first and to all Muslims. May Allah help us to spend our time wisely this Ramadan and help us to avoid these mistakes. ameen

    1. Taking Ramadaan as a ritual

    For many of us Ramadaan has lost its spirituality and has become more of a ritual than a form of Ibaadah. We fast from morning to night like a zombie just because everyone around us is fasting too. We forget that its a time to purify our hearts and our souls from all evil….we forget to make dua, forget to beseech Allaah to forgive us and ask Him to save us from the Fire. Sure we stay away from food and drink but that’s about all.

    Although the Prophet (Sal Allaahu Alaiyhi wa Sallam) said:
    ‘Jibreel said to me, ‘May Allaah rub his nose in the dust, that person to who Ramadaan comes and his sins are not forgiven,’ and I said, ‘Ameen’. Then he said, ‘May Allaah rub his nose in the dust, that person who lives to see his parents grow old, one or both of them, but he does not enter Paradise (by not serving them) and I said, ‘Ameen’. Then he said, ‘May Allaah rub his nose in the dust, that person in whose presence you are mentioned and he does not send blessings upon you,’ and I said, ‘Ameen.” (Tirmidhi, Ahmad, others. Saheeh by al-Albaani).

    2. Too much stress on food and drink

    For some people, the entire month of Ramadaan revolves around food. They spend the ENTIRE day planning, cooking, shopping and thinking about only food, instead of concentrating on Salaah, Quraan and other acts of worship. All they can think of is FOOD. So much so that they turn the month of ‘fasting’ into the month of ‘feasting’. Come Iftaar time, their table is a sight to see, with the multitudes and varieties of food, sweets and drinks.. They are missing the very purpose of fasting, and thus, increase in their greed and desires instead of learning to control them. It is also a kind of waste & extravagance.

    ‘…..and eat and drink but waste not by extravagance, certainly He (Allaah) likes not Al-Musrifoon (those who waste by extravagance) ‘ [al-Araaf :31]

    3. Spending all day cooking

    Some of the sisters (either by their own choice or forced by their husbands) are cooking ALL day and ALL night, so that by the end of the day, they are too tired to even pray Ishaa, let alone pray Taraweeh or Tahajjud or even read Quraan. This is the month of mercy and forgiveness. So turn off that stove and turn on your Imaan!

    4. Eating too much

    Some people stuff themselves at Suhoor until they are ready to burst, because they think this is the way to not feel hungry during the day and some people eat at Iftaar, like there is no tomorrow, trying to ‘make up for the food missed.’ However, this is completely against the Sunnah. Moderation is the key to everything.

    The Prophet (Sal Allaahu Alaiyhi wa Sallam) said: ‘The son of Adam does not fill any vessel worse than his stomach; for the son of Adam a few mouthfuls are sufficient to keep his back straight. If you must fill it, then one-third for food, one-third for drink and one-third for air.’ (Tirmidhi, Ibn Maajah. saheeh by al-Albaani).

    Too much food distracts a person from many deeds of obedience=2 0and worship, makes him lazy and also makes the heart heedless.
    It was said to Imam Ahmad: Does a man find any softness and humility in his heart when he is full? He said, I do not think so.

    5. Sleeping all day

    Some people spend their entire day (or a major part of it) ‘sleeping away their fast’. Is this what is really required of us during this noble month? These people also are missing the purpose of fasting and are slaves to their desires of comfort and ease. They cannot ‘bear’ to be awake and face a little hunger or exert a little self-control. For a fasting person to spend most of the day asleep is nothing but, negligence on his part.

    6. Wasting time

    The month of Ramadaan is a precious, precious time, so much so that Allaah calls this month ‘Ayyamum Ma’doodaat’ (A fixed number of days). Before we know it, this month of mercy and forgiveness will be over. We should try and spend every moment possible in the worship of Allaah so that we can make the most of this blessing. However, there are some of us who waste away their day playing video games, or worse still, watching TV, movies or even listening to music. Subha an Allaah! Trying to obey Allaah by DISOBEYING him!

    7. Fasting but not giving up evil

    Some of us fast but do not give up lying, cursing, fighting, backbiting, etc. and some of us fast but do not give up cheating, stealing, dealing in haraam, buying lotto tickets, selling alcohol, fornication, etc. and all kinds of impermissible things without realizing that the purpose of fasting is to not stay away from food and drink; rather the aim behind it is to fear Allaah.

    ‘O you who believe! Fasting is prescribed for you as it was prescribed for those before you, that you may become Al-Muttaqoon (the pious)’ [al-Baqarah 2:183]

    The Prophet (Sal Allaahu Alaiyhi wa Sallam) said: ‘Whoever does not give up false speech and acting upon it, and ignorance, Allaah has no need of him giving up his food and drink.’ (Bukhaari)

    8. Skipping Suhoor (sehri)

    The Prophet (Sal Allaahu Alaiyhi wa Sallam) said: ‘Eat suhoor for in suhoor there is blessing.'(Bukhaari, Muslim).
    And he (Sal Allaahu Alaiyhi wa Sallam) said: ‘The thing that differentiates between our fasting and the fasting of the People of the Book is eating suhoor.’ (Muslim)

    9. Stopping Suhoor at ‘Imsaak’

    Some people stop eating Suhoor 10-15 minutes earlier than the time of Fajr to observe ‘Imsaak’.
    Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen said: This is a kind of bidah (innovation) which has no basis in the Sunnah. Rather the Sunnah is to do the opposite. Allaah allows us to eat until dawn: ‘and eat and drink until the white thread (light) of dawn appears to you distinct from the black thread (darkness of night)’ [al-Baqarah 2:187]

    And the Prophet (pbuh) said: ‘….eat and drink until you hear the adhaan of Ibn Umm Maktoom, for he does not give the adhaan until dawn comes.’

    This ‘imsaak’ which some of the people do is an addition to what Allaah has prescribed, so it is false. It is a kind of extremism in religion, and the Prophet (Sal Allaahu Alaiyhi wa Sallam) said:
    ‘Those who go to extremes are doomed, those who go to extremes are doomed, those who go to extremes are doomed.’ (Muslim)

    10. Not fasting if they missed Suhoor

    Some people are too scared to fast if they miss Suhoor. However, this is a kind of cowardice and love of ease. What is the big deal if you missed a few morsels of food? It’s not like you will die. Remember, obedience to Allaah overcomes everything.

    Saying the intention to fast ‘out loud’ or saying a specific dua to start fasting

    The intention is an action of the heart. We should resolve in our heart that we are going to fast tomorrow. That is all we need. It is not prescribed by the Shari’ah for us to say out loud, ‘I intend to fast’, ‘I will fast tomorrow’ or other phrases that have been innovated by some people. Also, there is no specific dua to be recited at the time of starting the fast in the correct Sunnah. Whatever ‘dua’ you may see on some papers or Ramadaan calendars, etc. is a Bid’ah.

    11. Delaying in breaking (opening) fast

    Some people wait until the adhaan finishes or even several minutes after that, just to be ‘on the safe side’. However, the Sunnah is to hasten to open the fast, which me ans opening fast whenever the adhaan starts, right after the sun has set. Aa’ishah (RA) said: This is what the Messenger of Allaah (Sal Allaahu Alaiyhi wa Sallam) used to do. (Muslim)

    The Prophet (Sal Allaahu Alaiyhi wa Sallam) said: ‘The people will continue to do well so long as they hasten to open the fast.’ (Bukhaari, Muslim)

    Determine to the best of your ability, the accuracy of your clock, calendar, etc. and then have tawakkul (trust) on Allaah swt and break your fast exactly on time.

    12. Eating continuously until the time for Maghrib is up

    Some people put so much food in their plates when breaking their fast and continue eating, enjoying dessert, drinking tea, etc., until they miss Maghrib. That is obviously not right. The Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh) was that once he broke his fast with some dates, them he would hasten to the prayer. Once you are done with the prayer, you can always go back and eat some more if you wish.

    13. Missing the golden chance of having your Dua accepted

    The prayer of the fasting person is guaranteed to be accepted at the ti me of breaking fast.
    The Prophet (Sal Allaahu Alaiyhi wa Sallam) said: ‘Three prayers are not rejected: the prayer of a father, the prayer of a fasting person, and the prayer of a traveler.’ (al-Bayhaqi, saheeh by al-Albaani).

    Instead of sitting down and making Dua at this precious time, some people forego this beautiful chance, and are too busy frying samosas, talking, setting the food, filling their plates and glasses, etc. Think about it….Is food more important than the chance to have your sins forgiven or the fulfillment of your Duas.

    14. Fasting but not praying

    The fasting of one who does not pray WILL NOT BE ACCEPTED. This is because not praying constitutes kufr as the Prophet (Sal Allaahu Alaiyhi wa Sallam) said: ‘Between a man and shirk and kufr there stands his giving up prayer.’ (Muslim)

    In fact, NONE of his good deeds will be accepted; rather, they are all annulled.
    ‘Whoever does not pray ‘Asr, his good deeds will be annulled.’ (Bukhaari)

    15. Fasting and not wearing Hijaab

    Not wearing the Hijaab is a major sin as it is obligatory for Muslim women. (See Surah Nur, Surah Ahzaab). So fasting and not wearing hijaab certainly takes away enormously from the rewards of fasting, even if does not invalidate it.

    16. Not fasting because of exams or work

    Exams or work is NOT one of the excuses allowed by the Shariah to not fast. You can do your studying and revision at night if it is too hard to do that during the day. Also remember that pleasing and obeying Allaah is much more important than ‘good grades’. Besides, if you will fulfil your obligation to fast, even if you have to study, Allaah will make it easy for you and help you in everything you do.
    ‘Whosoever fears Allah, He will appoint for him a way out and provide for him from where he does not expect, Allah is Sufficient for whosoever puts his trust in Him.’ (Surah at-Talaaq 2-3)

    17. Mixing fasting and dieting

    DO NOT make the mistake of fasting with the intention to diet. That is one of the biggest mistakes some of us make (esp. sisters). Fasting is an act of worship and can only be for the sake of Allah al one. Otherwise, mixing it with the intention of dieting may become a form of (minor) Shirk.

    18. Praying ONLY on the night of the 27th

    Some people pray ONLY on the 27th to seek Lailat ul-Qadr, neglecting all other odd nights, although the Prophet (Sal Allaahu Alaiyhi wa Sallam) said: ‘Seek Lailat ul-Qadr among the odd numbered nights of the last ten nights of Ramadaan.’ (Bukhaari, Muslim).

    19. Wasting the last part of Ramadaan preparing for Eid

    Some people waste the entire last 10 days of Ramadaan preparing for Eid, shopping and frequenting malls, etc. neglecting Ibadah and Lailatul Qadr. although, the Prophet (Sal Allaahu Alaiyhi wa Sallam) used to strive the hardest during the last ten days of Ramadaan in worship (Ahmad, Muslim) and not in shopping. Buy whatever you need for Eid before Ramadaan so that you can utilize the time in Ramadaan to the max.
    Aa’ishah (RA) said: ‘When the (last) ten nights began, the Messenger of Allaah (Sal Allaahu Alaiyhi wa Sallam)) would tighten his waist-wrapper (i.e., strive hard in worship or refrain from intimacy with his wives), stay awake at night and wake his family.’ (Bukhaari and Muslim).

    20. Iftaar parties

    Although inviting each other for breaking fast is something good and encouraged, some people go to extremes with lavish ‘Iftaar parties’ with all sorts of disobedience to Allaah, from flirting, mixing of the sexes and hijaab-less women, to show-off and extravagance, to heedlessness to Salaah, and Taraweeh to even music and dancing.

    It’s not too late to rectify ones mistake and do good for the sake of Allah. Allah say, “Inform My servants that I am the Forgiver, Most Merciful”. [15:49]

  135. #135 by Mohammed Munir on September 3, 2009 - 7:10 AM

    Khansahab …

    I was looking for this confirmed Hadees for sometime and here it is. It clearly mentions about the special and higher ‘Rewards’ specially during the month of Ramadan:

    The Prophet (pbuh) said, “If someone draws near to Allah during Ramadan with some good act he will be like one who fulfils an obligatory duty in another month, and he who fulfils an obligatory duty in it will be like one who fulfils seventy obligatory duties in another month”. (Tirmidhi Hadith 1965)

    What I understand from the above Hadees (in simple words) is that any additional prayers or good deeds/ charities (Nafil Ibaadaat) during the month of Ramadan equals to the obligatory prayers (Farz Ibadaat) outside Ramadan, while any obligatory prayers in the month of Ramadan equals to seventy times (in Rewards) of obligatory prayers (Farz Ibadaat) in any another month.

    Secondly, about “Seventy Times” as there was some discussion (I guess Javed Khan mentioned) that why it is always (rewards or even punishments) seventy times, seventy thousands, etc. and why not more or less. Well, the answer to this is that during those time, “Seventy” was considered as a ‘figure of speech’ for many/ limitless figures. Something, like we say ‘hundreds’ and ‘thousands’ today. For example, we say ‘there were thousands of peoples in the stadium’ or ‘I told you a hundred times’ but what we really mean is that these figures (hundreds and thousands) are indicative and used as a ‘figure of speech’. Similarly, in early Islam days, ‘seventy’ was mentioned to represent ‘limitless or countless’ times.

  136. #136 by khansahab on September 3, 2009 - 7:23 AM

    Munir sahab

    Thank you for finding the Hadees.

  137. #137 by khansahab on April 7, 2010 - 6:09 PM

    Jem from Egyot

    We don’t support anyone making inciting and inflammatory comments, hence your comment has not been approved.

  138. #138 by Mohammed Munir on July 6, 2011 - 9:26 AM

    I have prepared the below detailed comment for another blog and in response to the subject of “Veil in Islam” for Muslim women. The emphasis of this comment is to relate the significance of Ahdeeth & Sunnah of Prophet Mohammed (Peace Be Upon Him) along with the Quran.

    A point was argued on another blog that Quran is not very specific about the instruction of veil for Muslim women, however, we all know that Quran provides a wider guidance which was practically shown and implemented by the Prophet PBUH himself by his Sayings, Actions, Instructions, Approvals, and Judgments which all form part of Ahdeeth and Sunnah and they form an integral part of Islamic Law, along with the Quran.

    One more reason of my taking liberty of publishing the whole comment here on LS is that we all know that here on LS we don’t have any restrictions of space (word count) or expressions, which is not the case with many other blogs.

    Anyways, below is the full message, which one can read only for personal interest.


    In the Name of Allah, The Most Beneficent, The Most Merciful.

    This is a nice bolg and though I don’t necessarily agree with the contents or the author’s independent views, but the quality of the bloggers and the subsequent arguments put forth are surely worth appreciating. Although, the source article is addressing the general patriarchy views and several related issues faced by the Muslim women, however, for a first time reader of this blog, the issue relating to veil comes out prominent than others matters, or at least so I presume.

    Veil, inheritance, divorcing and other related topics need broader discussions by wider audiences, and tackling them in one comment, one article or even one book for that matter shall not justify the significance of these vital issues in Islam. On related thoughts, it is also unfortunate to note that no reference, whatsoever, is being made to any of the Ahdeeth (sayings of Prophet Mohammed PBUH) while discussing the subjects and again the importance of Ahdeeth on these topics can never be ignored. Generally speaking, no Muslim can deny the paramount stature of Quran in Islam, and similarly, Ahdeeth are also considered an integral part of understanding Islam/ Muslims.

    Reading and understanding Quran is the easier part and thus preferred of the two (Quran & Sunnah), whereas studies of Ahdeeth and Sunnah is a much wider subject and so usually avoided. We Muslims religiously teach our children Quran in Arabic and at times also read and explain it’s translations for better understanding which is the right way, however, even staunch Muslim families rarely make sincere efforts of understand the Ahdeeth and Sunnah and it’s underlying significance in Islam. It is absolutely uncommon that we teach our children Ahdeeth and Sunnah and even those who read them, do it in their own/ translated languages and never in Arabic. Most Muslims, read only few Ahdeeth here and there and quote what they heard others saying, and as a result Quran is considered the only authenticated source and Ahdeeth and Sunnah looses their due significance. This is unfortunate, but true.

    With respect to the writer and my fellow bloggers, I shall be slightly deviating from the main topic and wish to start my discussions by signifying the “Indispensability of Ahdeeth” and “Following the Messenger of Allah” in Islam, which shall help understand the main topics. I agree that this blog is not about Ahdeeth and a few bloggers who have tried to relate any Ahdeeth or Sunnah with the subject have been politely but firmly sidelined, nevertheless, this doesn’t diminish the importance of Ahdeeth in understanding the subject. All I can request from the readers of my extensive and rather lengthy comment is ‘patience’.

    The Significance of Ahdeeth and Sunnah

    Allah, says in His Book (Quran) … Say: “Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, but if you turn away, he (Messenger Muhammad PBUH) is only responsible for the duty placed on him (i.e. to convey Allah’s Message) and you for that placed on you. If you obey him, you shall be on the right guidance. The Messenger’s duty is only to convey (the message) in a clear way (i.e. to preach in a plain way).” (Surah An-Nur 24:54).

    The Quran also tells us to obey the Prophet Mohammad (Surah An-Nisa 4 verse 59), to take what he allows and refrain from what he prohibits (Surah Al-Hashr 59 verse 7), to follow his judgments (Surah An-Nisa 4 verse 65), and to abide by his decisions (Surah Al-Ahzab 33 verse 36). It also tells us that some of its verses are ambiguous in meaning (Surah Aal-Imran 3 verse 7), and that the Prophet Mohammed will explain the meaning of the revelation (Surah An-Nahl 16 verse 44). All of this is the domain of the Sunnah. The Sunnah records what the Prophet Mohammed said, did, and silently allowed. It shows us how he put the Quran into action. It tells us what he commanded, allowed, prohibited, judged, and decided. And it informs us how he explained the Quran. The Sunnah is an important and necessary source of Islamic law.

    I have quoted a few Surahs and Verses from Quran above, which shall preferably be read in details for full understanding.

    The Qur’an contains dozens of reminders of the important position of the Prophet. For instance the Qur’an says:

    It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in to a plain error. (Surah Al-Ahzab 33:36)

    In another verse he has been made a ‘Hakam’ for the Muslims by Allah Almighty. No one remains Muslim if he does not accept the Prophet’s decisions and judgments:

    “But no, by thy Lord, they can have no real faith until they make thee judge in all disputes between them and find in their souls no resistance against thy decisions but accept them with the fullest conviction.” (Surah An-Nisa: 4:65).

    While explaining the qualities of Muslims the Quran says:

    “The answer of the believers, when summoned to Allah and His apostle, in order that He may judge between them, is no other than this: They say: we hear and we obey.” (Surah An-Nur: 24:51).

    In many places the Quran has given its clear verdict on this issue. The Quran clearly says:

    O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger (SAW), if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination. (Surah An-Nisa 4:59).


    “Whatever the Messenger giveth you take it and whatever he forbiddeth abstain from it.” (Surah Al-Hashr: 59:7).

    Quran is very evident in expressing its view on the position of the Prophet Mohammed PBUH. According to the Quran, the Prophet has four capacities and he must be obeyed in every capacity. He is a “Muaallim wa Murabbee”, he is “Shaaree” (one who explains the Book), he is a law-giver and judge, and he is a ruler. In all these capacities he is an ideal example for the Muslims to follow. I am quoting a few more verses of the Holy Book just to give a hint of this important topic.

    “Allah did confer a great favour on the believers when He sent among them an apostle from among themselves rehearsing unto them the signs of Allah, sanctifying them in scripture and wisdom while, before that, they had been in manifest error.” (Surah Aal-Imran: 3:164).

    With clear signs and Books (We sent the Messengers). And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad SAW) the Dhikr [the reminder and the advice (the Quran)], that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought. (Surah An-Nahl: 16:44).

    Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e. Muhammad SAW) whom they find written with them in the Tarot (Torah) (Deut, xviii 15) and the Intel (Gospel) (John xiv, 16)[], – he commands them for Al-Maraud (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam has ordained); and forbids them from Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism of all kinds, and all that Islam has forbidden); he allows them as lawful At-Tayyibat (i.e. all good and lawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons, foods), and prohibits them as unlawful Al-Khabaith (i.e. all evil and unlawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons and foods), he releases them from their heavy burdens (of Allah’s Covenant with the children of Israel), and from the fetters (bindings) that were upon them. So those who believe in him (Muhammad SAW), honour him, help him, and follow the light (the Quran) which has been sent down with him, it is they who will be successful. (Surah Al-Araf: 7:157).

    “It is not fitting for a believer, man or woman when a matter has been decided by Allah and His apostle to have any option about their decision. If any one disobeys Allah and His apostle, he is indeed on a clearly wrong path.” (Al-Ahzab: 33:36).

    In all these verses, the Quran has explained various aspects of the Prophets personality. One can judge the absolutely significance of the Prophet Mohammed PBUH from these few verses.

    The Quran while pressing the Muslims to obey the Prophet goes a step further when it announces that the Prophethood of Mohammed PBUH is above all the limitations of time and space. He is the last Prophet and is a Messenger of Allah for the whole of humanity for all time to come.

    Thus Ahdeeth are nothing but a reflection of the personality of the Prophet, who is to be obeyed at every cost. Any student of the Quran will see that the Holy Book generally deals with the broad principles or essentials of religion, going into details in very rare cases. These details were generously supplied by the Prophet himself, either by showing in his practice how an injunction shall be carried out, or by giving an explanation in words. The Sunnah or Ahdeeth of the Holy Prophet was not, as is generally supposed, a thing of which the need may have been felt only after his death, for it was very much needed in his lifetime.

    Here I would like to mention as example that, the two most important religious institutions of Islam are Salaat (prayer) and Zakat; yet when the injunction relating to prayer and Zakat were delivered, and they were repeatedly revealed in both Mecca and Madina, no details were supplied. Keep up prayers (Aqimoo as-Salaah the Quranic injunction and it was the Prophet himself who by his own actions gave details of the prayer and said: (Salloo Kama Raaytamoonee Usaallee) “Pray as you see me praying.”

    Similarly, payment of Zakah is again an injunction frequently repeated in the Qur’an yet it was the Prophet PBUH who gave the rules and regulations for its payments and collections. These are but two examples; since Islam covers the entire sphere of human activities, hundreds of points had to be explained by the Prophet Mohammed PBUH by his examples in actions and in words.

    The Muslim scholars have discussed the question of Hadith in all detail as a “wahyun khafee” and prophetic wisdom. I do not want to go into the details, but one thing must be stated clearly that there were cases when the Prophet, not having received a revelation, made a personal effort to formulate opinion through his own wisdom. Either it was corrected by revelation or it was approved. The importance of the Sunnah even as a second source of Islam was a settled issue for the Companions (Sahaba) of the Prophet.

    The man, therefore, who embraced Islam stood in need of both the Qur’an and the Sunnah. Actually Hadith is so important that without it one cannot fully understand the Holy Book and Islam or be able to apply it to one’s life and practice.

    Allah also made it clear to us that the duty of Prophet PBUH is to clarify the truth to people when there is a dispute:

    And We have not sent down the Book (the Quran) to you (O Muhammad SAW), except that you may explain clearly unto them those things in which they differ, and (as) a guidance and a mercy for a folk who believe. (Surah An-Nahl 16:64).

    Further, we are obligated to follow any ruling by Rasoolullaah Mohammed PBUH in any dispute, as detailed in Quran (Surah An-Nisa 4:65), mentioned above. Similarly, Allah also mentioned in Quran (Surah Aal-Imran 3:164) that Prophet Mohammed was given the Quran and Wisdom to teach people the regulations of their religion.

    To clarify the concept of Sunnah and our obligation to follow it, I will once again refer to the verse from Surah Al-Araf 7:157 (translation above), which clearly explains that the Prophet PBUH allows what is lawful and prohibits from what is bad/ wrong and those (Muslims) who believe in him, honour him, and follow the light sent on him are the one will prosper.

    Below are a few of the verses taken from various Surahs in Quran, which further emphasis the importance of Ahdeeth and Sunnah of Prophet Mohammed PBUH in Islam. I have also kept the references of Surah names and Aayat numbers and if anyone is interested then they can further read and explore.

    “O ye who believe! give your response to Allah and His Messenger, when He calleth you to that which will give you life.” (Surah Al-Anfal 8:24).

    “He who obeys the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), has indeed obeyed Allah, but he who turns away, then we have not sent you (O Muhammad SAW) as a watcher over them”. (Surah An-Nisa 4:80).

    Say (O Muhammad SAW to mankind): “If you (really) love Allah then follow me (i.e. accept Islamic Monotheism, follow the Quran and the Sunnah), Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” (Surah Aal-Imran 3:31).

    A strict and clear warning:

    Make not the calling of the Messenger (Mohammed SAW) among you as your calling one of another. Allah knows those of you who slip away under shelter (of some excuse without taking the permission to leave, from the Messenger SAW). And let those who oppose the Messenger’s (Muhammad SAW) commandment (i.e. his Sunnah— legal ways, orders, acts of worship, statements) (among the sects) beware, lest some Fitnah (disbelief, trials, afflictions, earthquakes, killing, overpowered by a tyrant) should befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them. (Surah An-Nur 24:63) (This translation is by Dr. Mohsin Khan).

    In another place, not only warning, but Allah told us Muslims that disobeying Rasoolullaah PBUH is as Kufr (disbelief):

    Say (O Muhammad SAW): “Obey Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad SAW).” But if they turn away, then Allah does not like the disbelievers [] (Surah Aal-Imran 3:32).

    In this relation, I would also like to detail below an incident which shall assist us in understanding the importance of Ahdeeth & Sunnah in addition to Quran.

    Once a woman came to a companion (Sahabi) Ibn-e-Masud (Allah be please with him) and told him: “Aye Ibn-e-Masun, are you the one who says: May Allah’s curse be on Al-Namisat (a woman who plucks hers or others eye-brows – to be a thin line – to seek beauty. Such an act is forbidden. It is a mean to change the form of Allah’s creation) and Al-Motanamisat (a woman who asks others to do it for her) and those who tatoo.”

    Ibn-e-Masud replied: “Yes.”

    That woman said, “I read the Book of Allah (Al-Quran) from its beginning to its end, I did not find what you have said.”

    Ibn-e-Masud told her: “If you have read it (the Quran), you would have found it. As for your reading what the Messenger teaches you, take it, and what he forbids you, avoid doing it.” She said: “Certainly”.

    He said: “I have heard the Messenger of Allah PBUH says: “May Allah’s curse be on Al-Namisat.”
    (This incident is quoted in Bukhari & Muslim).

    Further, it is also in Quran that:

    Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Quran) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption) (Surah Al-Hijjr 15:9)

    The above verse is obviously fulfilled in the undisputed purity of the Quranic text throughout the fourteen centuries since its revelation. However, what is sometimes forgotten or ignored is that the divine promise also includes, by necessity, the Sunnah and Ahdeeth of the Prophet Mohammed PBUH, because neither the Quran nor the Sunnah can be understood correctly without the other.

    Allah preserved the Sunnah and Ahdeeth by enabling the companions (Sahaba) and those after them (Taabayeen) to memorize, write down and pass on the statements of the Prophet, and the descriptions of his ways, as well as to continue the blessings of practicing the Sunnah.

    Quran further says:

    Your companion (Muhammad PBUH) has neither gone astray nor has erred. (2) Nor does he speak of (his own) desire. (3) It is only a Revelation revealed. (4) He has been taught (this Quran) by one mighty in power [Jibril (Gabriel)] (Surah An-Najm 53, verses 2 to 4).

    Therefore, Ahdeeth represents a personal source of divine guidance which Allah granted His Prophet PBUH which was similar in its nature to the Quran itself, so much so, that Quran explains that the Prophet Mohammed does not speak of his own desire, and this is why that at no point do we see any of the Ahdeeth contrasting the teachings of Quran, rather they are explaining/ clarifying them in additional details.

    Ahdeeth and Sunnah is needed even for clarification/ explanation of Obligatory Duties (Farad)

    As mentioned earlier, even the Islam’s most important obligatory duties such as Salat (Prayer), Zakat (Tax System), Hajj (Pilgrimage) and Soum (Fasting) require detailed explanations and clarifications from Ahdeeth and Sunnah as provided by the Prophet Mohammed PBUH, and it will not be totally out of place to state that these vital pillars of Islam are incomplete without the practical knowledge and procedural details of Sunnah Ahdeeth.

    To elaborate my point, I would like to point that the Companions (Sahaba) of the Prophet PBUH used to take the ruling on different matters in their lives from the Quran, which they use to learn from the Prophet himself. In many instances, the Aayaat (verses) of the Quran treat a subject in a general manner without a specific condition. Sometimes the Aayaat will come as an absolute ruling without any precondition or limitation required by time, place, etc. As an example of what came in a general way in the Quran is the Salaat/ Namaz (Prayer). The Quran does not mention how many Rakaah (units of prayer) we should make, or how to physically move during prayer, or the exact time for prayers. Similarly, the Quran does not mention the minimum amount of money to possess before giving Zakaat (charity) or the conditions by which to pay it. Many of our Ibaadaat cannot be performed without stopping at the explanations related to the regulations, pillars, and conditions of nullification. It is thus a must to return to Ahdeeth and Sunnah to know the rules in a comprehensive and clear manner.

    So if the main Pillars of Islam and Obligatory (Farad) duties are clearly incomplete without the inputs from Adeeth/ Sunnah teachings, then how can we derive the full and final meanings of veil (Hijab/ Burqa) by completely ignoring any Ahdeeth/ Sunnah ?

    Many times, the Companions faced incidents in which the Quran which had no ruling, and there was a need to return to the Prophet Mohammed PBHU to know the ruling of such matters. It was the Prophet who was ordered by Allah to teach the humanity, and it is the Prophet who is the most knowledgeable of mankind about what Allah expects from us.

    Quran says:

    With clear signs and Books (We sent the Messengers). And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad SAW) the Dhikr [the reminder and the advice (the Quran)], that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought. (An-Nahal 16:44).

    Since the Prophet PBUH was guided by revelation in his personal life, his character and social interactions became prime examples of moral conduct for Muslims until the Last Day. In this regards, the Quran clearly states:

    Attention was drawn to this fact in the following Quranic verse:

    Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad SAW) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes for (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much. (Surah Al-Ahzab 33:21)

    Consequently, the daily life of the Prophet Mohammed as recorded in Ahdeeth and Sunnah represents an ideal code of good conduct for all Muslims men and women. In fact, when the Prophet’s wife, ‘Aaaishah (RA), was asked about his conduct, she replied, “His (Mohammed’s) character was the Quran.”

    I once again regret for prolonging and lengthening the discussion but I think the gravity of the topic and it’s overall impact demanded a thorough explanation giving suitable references wherever possible. I am of the opinion that the initial object of establishing the significance of Ahdeeth and Sunnah in Islam in general and their specific relation with regards to the veil/ Hijab is thus for proved.

    Veil in Other Religions

    I would once again slightly deviate from the direct topic of ‘Veil in Islam’, and would like point out the issue of veil in other religions, more specifically, Christianity and Judaism. Christians and Jews are at times collectively addressed as “Aahlil Qitab” in Quran, which means (the peoples of book/ scriptures), referring to the Bible and Torah respectively. It may come as a surprise to many that the concept of veil is very much present in Christianity as well as Judaism. One look at even a present day Christian nun in any of the given Christian churches, whether Catholic, Protestant, or others, shall provide ample proof to everyone as to how well these nuns are actually covered. Whereas similarly, the Jewish community also have a notion of modesty, saintliness and general morality attached to veil for their women. These practices, specially, for Christian nuns, are not only restricted to their churches and cathedrals but are actually a part of almost all their religious events and even, at times, everyday life.

    Please see the below two links which relate to this discussion:

    And …

    The topic of “Veil in Christianity” or “Veil in Judaism” or even any other religions for that matter can be easily searched on internet for personal interests.

    Here, an interesting question comes to mind that if veil had been part of earlier Christianity and Jewish histories, then why these religions have abandoned the concept of veil today. Well the answer to this is two folds, firstly, Christianity is around 600 older than Islam and have thus depleted overtime with the so-called liberations and modernizations. Similarly, Judaism was established much earlier than Christianity and Jews have been likewise affected and they too have gradually outworn the old-fashioned concept of veil and have substituted it with more modern and liberal outlook. Give Islam another 600 years or so and trust me, it will be very rare that we may see many veiled Muslim women around, this will be more or less in line with the present days Christianity and Jewish veil.

    Secondly, no matter whichever way we see, the perception of veil have not completely vanished from Christianity and Judaism, and we even today see some traditional and conservative Christian women, excluding the nuns, observing veil to some degree. While on the other hand, many orthodox Jews draw a sense of modesty and decency from the veil.

    No Compulsion in Islam

    The Quran say:

    O ye who believe! spend out of (the bounties) We have provided for you before the Day comes when no bargaining (will avail) nor friendship nor intercession. Those who reject faith they are the wrong-doers. (254) Allah! there is no Allah but He―the living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures as) Before or After or Behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. For He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory). (255) Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth stands out clear from Error; whoever rejects Evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (256) Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness, He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the Evil Ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (for ever). (257) –– (Surah Al-Baqara 2: verses 254 to 257, the translation is done by Eng. Yusuf Ali).

    As it is mentioned in the above verses, Islam is not forced upon peoples and Allah and His Messenger Prophet Mohammed PBUH have clarified the right from wrong and now it is up to peoples to accept it or not. Nevertheless, those who accept and practice it will be rewarded by Allah, while those who reject it ‘may’ be punished.

    Another point is that in Islam there are levels (Darjaat) of rewards (Ajjar/ Thawab) for all the good deeds, for example if a Muslim man prays his obligatory 5 daily prayers in mosque and with due heed he will have higher levels of rewards, whereas a second Muslim who prays 5 prayers at home then his reward shall be less comparing to first person, but even he may be better compensated then a third person who skips 1 or 2 prayers or someone who misses them all.

    Similarly, there shall be different levels of rewards and punishments for Muslim women observing veil and those who do not believe in veil at all. In fact within the women who are practicing veil there shall again be levels of who is practicing veil purely for sake of Allah and those who do it merely because of their cultural and social obligations. This is more like doing a good deed by force, e.g. a criminal not committing a crime for direct fear of police or someone avoiding it at the first place purely on voluntarily basis.

    Coming back to the point of no compulsion in Islam, I would like to quote an Arabic phrase and it say:

    “Al-Abd Hurr Izza Kfar, Wal Hurr Abd Izza Salum”.

    Vague explanation: A labuorer or a servant is free to oppose or defy his owner, but even a free man becomes a servant if he surrenders or submits to his owner.

    It’s a lot similar in Islam because the right and wrong paths have been clearly shown by Allah and now it is upon human to either accept or reject them. in this world, Muslims like all other humans beings are free to exercise their own choice in many ways as we are made “Saaheb-e-Ikhtiyar” in certain areas, however, we all know that we will be answerable for our choices and actions in the hereafter. For example we, unfortunately, see many Muslims who drink alcohol, gamble, womanize, and don’t pray or pay Zakat, and similarly avoid many other obligatory duties of Islam or do the restricted ‘Zanoob’. What’s more regrettable is that many of us Muslims do wrong things in spite of being very well aware that it is restricted in Islam but we still continue to do them. This is a choice which some of us make and they will be surely answerable for their actions.

    Few related Ahdeeth and ‘Tafseer’ (Explanatory Commentary of Quran) by Islamic Scholars

    Quran is an overall guide and a wider code of life for all Muslim men and women to follow, whereas Ahdeeth and Sunnah are the practical applications of Quranic orders as shown by the Prophet Mohammed PBHU himself. It shall appropriate to mention here that Quran contains certain Aayaats (verses) which are definitely beyond human understandability and our worldly knowledge and as such even after over 1,400 years of it’s descending, not a single Muslim, rather no human being, have understood these Aayaats of Quran till today and never will. The fact is that Quran is a direct word of Allah, and understanding Quran without the assistance of Ahdeeth and Quran is simply impossible.

    This topic can again be a lengthy one, however, I will try to keep it very concise and to-the-point. There are many Ahdeeth which are indirectly related with the subject of veil and they give wider details about modesty and decency for Muslim women, further, there are several weak or ‘unconfirmed’ Ahdeeth on the veil, keeping all those Ahdeeth aside, I would like to quote only the authenticated and directly related Ahdeeth below:

    Hadith – Abu Dawud, Narrated Dihyah ibn Khalifah al-Kalbi…
    “The Apostle of Allah PBUH was brought some pieces of fine Egyptian linen and he gave me one and said: Divide it into two; cut one of the pieces into a shirt and give the other to your wife for veil. Then when he turned away, he said: And order your wife to wear a garment below it and not show her figure”.

    Hadith – Abu Dawud, narrated Aisha, Ummul Muminin …
    [This Hadith is also recorded al-Tirmidhi, Ahmad, and ibn Majah. Al-Albani says it is sahih. Al-Albani, Sahih al-Jami, vol. 2, p. 1280.]
    “The Prophet PBUH said: Allah does not accept the prayer of a woman who has reached puberty unless she wears a Khimaar”.

    Hadith – Al-Tirmidhi no. 3109, narrated Abdullah ibn Masud [Tirmidhi transmitted it.] …
    “The Prophet PBUH said, “A woman should be concealed, for when she goes out the devil looks at her.”

    In addition to these Ahdeeth, I would also like to give a brief account of the ‘Tafseer’ of the Quran, which is explained by well-know and highly reputed Islamic scholars:

    Below are the “Prescribed Methods of Covering by Islamic Scholars”, as given in ‘Tafseer of Quran’.

    Tafseer – Ibn Katheer
    “Allah commanded the Muslim women to cover this sheet on top of them to cover their bodies except one eye, when it is necessary for them to come out of their homes.”

    Tafseer – Commentary by Ibn Jarir and Ahkam-ul-Quran, Vol.III, p.457
    Imam Muhammad bin Sirin said: “When I asked Ubaida bin Sufyan bin al-Harith (ra) the meaning of this verse and how the Jalbaab was to worn, he demonstrated it to me by pulling a sheet of cloth over his head to cover his entire body, leaving the left eye uncovered. This was also the explanation of the word ‘Alaihinna in this verse”

    Tafseer – Alusi, Rul-ul-Maani, Vol. 22, p. 89
    “Ibn Jarir Tabari and Ibn Al-Mundhir described the method of wearing the Jalbaab according to Ibn Abbas (ra) and Qatadah (ra). The sheet should be wrapped around from the top, covering the forehead, then bringing one side of the sheet to cover the face below the eyes so that most of the face and the upper body is covered. This will leave both eyes uncovered (which is allowed in necessity).

    I have kept the reference attached to these ‘Tafseer’ so anyone can check them up, if needed.

    Closing Discussions and Finer Details

    A Muslim woman should wear Hijab for the simple reason that God has commanded it in the Quran and Sunnah. As Muslims we make the testimony “Mohammed is the messenger of God”. The Prophet Mohammed PBUH would not be a messenger if he did not come with a message, and his message is the Quran. Therefore, we are really saying “The Quran is the message of God”. Our faith in God motivates us to obey God’s message and that is why we follow what God has commanded in the Quran.

    So what do the Quran and Sunnah have to say about women’s dress? Here I will again the main two verses (which have already been mentioned before) that deal with the subject of veil. These are Surah An-Nur 24 verse 31 and Surah Al-Ahzab 33 verse 59.

    Surah An-Nur 24 verse 31 reads:

    And say to the faithful women to lower their gazes, and to guard their private parts, and not to display their beauty except what is apparent of it, and to extend their head-coverings (Khimars) to cover their bosoms, and not to display their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband’s fathers, or their sons, or their husband’s sons, or their brothers, or their brothers’ sons, or their sisters’ sons, or their womenfolk, or what their right hands rule (slaves), or the followers from the men who do not feel sexual desire, or the small children to whom the nakedness of women is not apparent, and not to strike their feet (on the ground) so as to make known what they hide of their adornments. And turn in repentance to God together, O you the faithful, in order that you are successful.

    Surah Al-Ahzab 33 verse 59 reads:

    O Prophet! Say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the faithful to draw their outer-garments (Jilbabs) close around them; that is better that they will be recognized and not annoyed. And God is ever Forgiving, Gentle.

    These verses contain a total of seven commands for women. Three are related to behavior, which are:

    – “to lower their gazes”
    – “to guard their private parts”
    – “not to strike their feet (on the ground) so as to make known of what they hide of their adornments”

    Lowering the gaze refers to not looking at what is forbidden to be seen of men or of other women. According to the Sunnah, “what is forbidden to be seen of men” refers to the region from the navel to the knees, while “what is forbidden to be seen of other women” refers to the region from the upper chest to the knees. Guarding the private parts means that the private parts should not be seen or touched except by the spouse. Again, the “private parts” of a woman are from her upper chest to her knees, so this is what should only be seen and touched by her husband. Striking the feet on the ground refers to a practice of the pre-Islamic Arab women that they would walk in such a manner that their ankle bracelets would jangle. More generally, it refers to any kind of posturing that gives knowledge what is hidden.

    Note: Surah An-Nur 24 verse 30 commands men to lower their gazes and guard their private parts. As well, the provocative way of walking mentioned for women is a kind of “showing off”. The Sunnah indicates that “showing off” for men includes wearing gold, silk, or entirely red garments, and letting the garments trail conceitedly on the ground. So in fact, both men and women have been given similar commands in regard to modest behavior and avoiding “showing off”.

    In addition to the commands about behavior, there are also four commands for women in regard to dress:

    – “not to display their beauty except what is apparent of it”
    – “to extend their head-coverings (Khimars) to cover their bosoms”
    – “not to display their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers…”
    – “to draw their outer-garments (Jilbabs) close around themselves”

    The commands “not to display their beauty except what is apparent of it” and “not to display their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers…” are actually two parts of the same command, which is “not to display their beauty beyond what is apparent of it except to the people listed in the verse”. So what does “what is apparent of it” mean? This is one of the passages in the Quran that is not clear, and that the Prophet Mohammed PBUH needs to explain. His explanation, as given in the Sunnah, is that it refers to the face and the hands. Thus, this command means that when they are around men who are not related to them, women should cover everything but their faces and their hands. This is the basic rule of Hijab. Obviously, since the hair is not part of the face or the hands, the hair must be covered, so that is why Muslim women cover their hairs.

    The Quran has also mentioned extending the head-covering (Khimar) to cover the bosom. According to the historical records that have been preserved, the pre-Islamic Arab women wore a head-covering called “Khimar” which was like a ‘Kaffiyah’. It covered part of their hair, but left their forelocks, ears, necks, and upper chests uncovered. Thus the command “to extend their Khimars to cover their bosoms” involved drawing the Khimar securely around the circle of the face and fastening it under the chin so that the ends fell down towards the bosom. This would cover all of the hair, the ears, the neck, and the upper chest. And this is where the headscarf comes from. Muslim women have already been commanded to cover their hair, ears (considered part of the head), necks, and upper chests because none of these are part of the face or the hands, and they are specifically commanded by this clause to use a headscarf (Khimar) to accomplish the covering of these parts.

    The final command relating to dress is the outer-garment (Jilbab). Since most people wear coats or other outer-garments outdoors, it is not surprising that Muslim women are commanded to wear very modest outer-garments outdoors. The Jilbab is the very long coat, which covers from the shoulders to the ankles.

    Last Word

    I would like to finish my very lengthy comment (for which I have already rendered my sincere apologies) with a genuine prayer that Allah allows all Muslims men and women to follow and practically apply Quran, Ahdeeth and Sunnah in our everyday life.

    Furthermore, in my foregoing comment, I have been quoting various Quranic verses which are taken from different sources/ commentaries/ books/ etc. as such please forgive me in case I have referred to a few specific Quran verses more then once. I think it was necessary and vital to keep referring to the Quran and specially a certain directly related verses which I have mentioned more then once.

    Thirdly, though I have checked all the Quranic references (Surah & Verses) but still there is a possibility of human-error. In such chase, I request the readers to kindly point it to me so I can correct it.

  139. #139 by Arbab Mohammed on February 9, 2012 - 4:22 PM

    @ Munir Quote: the “private parts” of a woman are from her upper chest to her knees, so this is what should only be seen and touched by her husband. Unquote

    I am sure private parts of a woman as stipulated in Islamic Shariah are her ENTIRE BODY except he face and hands.

    By what you have written, it can be misleadingly deducted that feet, calves, arms, shoulders, neck etc of a woman are not to be covered (not private).

  140. #140 by JAVED A. KHAN on February 9, 2012 - 6:38 PM


    About the curse on Al Namisat, which you have mentioned in your comment #138

    I am not sure if it is a Mustanad Al-Hadith that women if they pluck their eyebrows, there is a curse from Allah? Because, a woman is allowed to do make up on her face to look beautiful as long as she is doing it for her husband and not coming out in public and displaying her face with added make up in public. Because, there is also a Hadith narrating an incident that, one man asked Prophet s.a.s. is it wrong IF, I want to dress up in good clothes? He said, NO. Then he asked is it wrong for me to apply Atar (frangrance) he said NO. He asked is it wrong when I dress, I tie my Jambia (dagger) on the side of my waist as an ornament and a thing of beauty? He said, NO. These are not the exact wordings but, the man asked numerous questions about his dress code and for which the Prophet gave replies by saying there is nothing wrong in dressing up nicely to look good. He however warned him, IF by wearing all these things, you are trying to display TAKKABUR i.e., ‘pride with arrogance’ and trying to look down upon others as inferior to you, then it is very wrong.

    SO, if a Man is allowed to dress up nicely and look good (except refrain from Takkabur) then why is a woman not allowed to dress up nicely and do make-up or, pluck her eyebrows and wear fragrance on her body and clothes to please her husband in the privacy of her house? Fragrance is also a part of the make up and not that you are born with a fragrance of Dahn-al-Oodh for all your life.

    To say: “It is a mean to change the form of Allah’s creation”, (this is from the same Hadith you have quoted in #138) I am not sure plucking of an eyebrow or shortening of hair is considered the same as Tattoo because, hair always grow back but, Tattoos were permanent (now they can be removed by laser) and I am not discussing about Tattoos and I don’t approve them because that’s another subject and lets not discuss it.

    And, what about “braces”? An Orthodontist can alter the “Tera Binga Teeth” and make them look nice and well arranged, is it a change from Allah’s creation? And, what about children born with deformities such as deformed limbs? If they are corrected through surgeries is it a change from Allah’s creation? If men can go and get laser surgery on their scalp and get new hair it is allowed, is it a change from Allah’s creation and it is NOT allowed? If a Moulvi dyes his hair with Heena and apply soorma in his eyes it is OK? And, it is not a change from Allah’s creation? Man is born naked, wearing clothes is a change from Allah’s creation? We all know that most Al-Hadith are not Mustanad and one needs to see them from the perspective of its authenticity and clarified by learned scholars i.e., Alims and Muftis.

  141. #141 by Mohammed Munir on February 12, 2012 - 10:21 AM

    Javed Khan …

    Please read, (This incident (The one about Namisat) is quoted in Bukhari & Muslim).

    Secondly, sorry I am not an authority to go into further details on your other questions, which needs to be reffered to an authority who can answer.

  142. #142 by Mohammed Munir on February 12, 2012 - 12:07 PM

    Arbab Mohammed …

    Please try to read the full comment in it’s totality rather then picking and selecting parts, which may alter the overall understandings.

    In most of my above comment I have tried not to quote things from my own side and as much as I have mentioned what is given in Quran and Ahdeeth. The simple reason is that I am not authorized to say things on Islam/ Fatawa.

    Please also read this below Aayat, although, it is not directly related with the topic but it explains that there are clearly marked instructions in Quran and then there are few not-so-clear instructions, and for us as Muslims, it is not advisable to go into too much of these “hidden meanings” because “none knows its hidden meaning save Allah”.

    Surah Al-E-Imran (Surah no. 3, Aayat no. 7) …

    Translation by Dr. Mohsin Khan

    “It is He Who has sent down to you (Muhammad SAW) the Book (this Qur’ân). In it are Verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book [and those are the Verses of Al-Ahkâm (commandments), Al-Farâ’id (obligatory duties) and Al-Hudud (legal laws for the punishment of thieves, adulterers)]; and others not entirely clear. So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation (from the truth) they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof, seeking Al-Fitnah (polytheism and trials), and seeking for its hidden meanings, but none knows its hidden meanings save Allâh. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: “We believe in it; the whole of it (clear and unclear Verses) are from our Lord.” And none receive admonition except men of understanding. (Tafsir At-Tabarî)”.

  143. #143 by JAVED A. KHAN on February 12, 2012 - 6:24 PM


    I know this is a standard thing among us, especially the Muslims of the sub-continent that we quote something, spread the word even when we are not sure about its authenticity and genuineness without verifying it with people of authority and then say: “We are not authority to go into further details.” This is not just you but, many people do this. In that case it is better in the first instance NOT to post such comments or spread the word without verifying especially if there is a doubt about it. Or, at least one can add a line by saying: Although this is in Bukhari, Tirmidhi, Muslim # so and so, which I am not sure is Mustanad or not and needs citation from scholars because, in light of such and such things it creates doubts!

    Because, the point that was highlighted was about plucking eyebrows (is forbidden) because, it alters the look of a person from the original version. So, also dying of hair and beard, cutting and trimming of hair and beard. So also straightening of teeth by the Orthodontist or setting up twisted and deformed legs by an Orthopedic surgeon. If one is born with a deformed leg, should he/she remain like that for the rest of their life assuming that this is how Allah has created them and this is how they should remain like this?

    Some people have very thick eyebrows and what is wrong if they pluck a few to make them thin? Like people with thick hair likes to make their hair thin, it is considered as fine. Anyways, I know you will not agree with me and neither will I.

  144. #144 by JAVED A. KHAN on February 12, 2012 - 6:55 PM

    As regards translation by D. Mohsin Khan from Surah Ale- Imran. The subject of Faith is not under discussion here, no one is denying about the hidden or clear meanings contained in Quran. But, as Man has evolved the scientific progress and the progress in medicine and technology has broadened his vision, which scholars of the past did not have this privilege. Hence today we have a better understanding of certain meanings which in the past were beyond comprehension were considered as hidden meanings have now become clear.

    Allah Himself has said that: “Verily, We created Man of the best stature.” “Laqad Khalaq nal insaan fi ahsoni taqwimin.” That means Man is the best among Allah’s creation, he gave him Aqal-e-Saleem, he is known as Ashraf-ul-Maqlooqaat — not just maqlooq but maqlooqat — So, now Man is beginning to understand the so-called hidden and obscure meanings better because of the knowledge that he possess today as compared to the past several hundred years ago. It is also a fact that the Arabic language is vast, “loghat ul Arabi Wasee’un” and meanings change with every little variation or according to the context in which it is said. The root may be the same but, the words that come out from the roots bear different meanings.

    Example: I better quote the link instead of copy pasting the whole thing or writing it myself. It is authentic because it is Ibne Kathir’s.

    The point here that I want to explain is about the Power of Allah mentioned in this: “Faatir us Samawati wal Ardi.” Please first read the contents in the link that I have copy pasted above and then read this.

    When the scientists started talking about the creation of the universe they talked about the Big Bang Theory. And, some of the Islamic scholars pointed out “Faatir us Samawati wal Ardi.” as “WE exploded the Heavens and the Earth.” So, the Big Bang Theory is already contained in the Quran but, we were not aware of it because of our limited knowledge.

    Now, very recently after a lot of research some of the scientists have tried to explain that the universe was NOT created with an explosion. Because, any explosion that takes place, after a while the effects of the explosions starts to slow down and disappear gradually. Whereas, the Universe is expanding and it will keep on expanding. So, the Big Bang Theory has a flaw in it? Then “Faatir us Samawati wal Aradi” is also wrong? No, it isn’t. It is our limited knowledge and understanding is faulty and we need to correct it. To cut the long story short. Some of the linguistic experts of Arabic after doing considerable research have come up with this.

    The word Faatir is from Tafjeer and the word Fajr (morning) is from it. Based on that they said, in this context it is not the explosion that is referred. But, it is Tafjeer. If you see how the day breaks, the light of the Sun does not appear with an explosion but, it starts spreading and goes on spreading as the day progresses. Similarly the Universe is spreading and expanding but, not with an explosion as it will ultimately phase off. Whereas, the light when it starts spreading at day break, does not disappear totally and completely. It is only that we cannot see the sun after a certain time, but in other parts of the world people can see it. So, what we see and what we believe is different from what the reality is.

    There is a personal observation that I made about the Day of Judgement and I will write in another comment because this is already too long.

  145. #145 by JAVED A. KHAN on February 12, 2012 - 7:16 PM

    About the personal observation about the Day of Judgement that I’ve mentioned above …… it was a question that was on my mind ever since I was a child i.e., when my grandmother used to read the Surah Al Yasin and narrate the scene of Qaiyamat ” kay Farishtay ek soor purh ker phoonkaingay aur Pahaar (mountains) roiee kay galon (cotton balls) ki terha urenge.” I used to ask her how it is possible to blow up the mountains that will fly like cotton balls? My grandmother did not knew how and she used to ask me to shut up and she used to say, ‘tum bahot bay tukay saval kertay ho.’ Yes, it was a bay tuka saval but, it was still a saval which no one at that time answered.

    Years later when I went to Fujairah (UAE) our bank was willing to finance The Rock Wool Factory which makes rook wool which is used for insulation of A/C ducting and the good thing was that their product was fire proof. I asked, are all these mountains fire proof? The CEO replied, no just one mountain is like that. Then I asked how long will that mountain last? He replied, right now we are doing 2 shifts of 8 hours each and if we do 3 shifts and work continuously 365 days, it will last for 10,000 years! Good enough for me to know that they will not be out of raw material.

    Then, I asked them to explain me how the make rock wool? They told me that the blow the mountain areas with dynamite and then bring the big rock pieces in dump trucks and they have a stone crushing plant in which they crush the big rocks into gravel and then the gravel is poured into a blast furnace which has a heat of 1500 degrees Celsius and the stone melts like lava erupting from a volcano — I saw all that step by step — the red hot lava was spinning in the blast furnace ….. and then there is a tiny hole in the furnace when the open it, from there the lava is released with a lot of pressure into a freezing chamber (all this can be seen as there is a glass wall) and when it comes out in the freezing chamber which has a -80C temp the lava looks like shaving foam coming out of a canister (foam not gel) and it is flying in that freezing chamber.

    The moment I saw that, it came to my mind. “Pahaar rooie kay gaalon ki terha urenge” Oh, my God I said to myself here is the answer to my question. If Man can do this, Allah is the Creator and Destroyer of the Universe He can do it. I should have thought about it earlier i.e., when I saw the videos of Atom Bomb explosions i.e., how the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were blown and flattened by the bomb? But, the pattern in my mind did not click, because there was no reference of mountains and the way they are blown up and used for some very different purpose.

    Anyways, that foam when it settles down goes through a slot which has rollers and it presses that foam into a 4″ thick sheet and then it comes out into another chamber where they are rolled up and ready for distribution and export.

    So, my point is meanings and words in Quran are hidden as long as your mind is closed but, once you open it you can discover its meaning. Someone has rightly said, our minds are like parachutes they work only when they are open.

    There is one more observation from the same Surah and I will write it separately.

  146. #146 by JAVED A. KHAN on February 12, 2012 - 7:30 PM

    The second personal observation:

    In surah Al Yasin there is a verse which says: “And WE have recorded everything in this Open Book.” My bay tuka question to my grandmother was what is this Open Book and where is it? And, she would say “Book? It means, the Holy Book, this Book, the Book of Allah and Rasul, The Holy Quran.” But, I was not convinced because, to my knowledge we only open the Book when we read it otherwise it is closed and kept on the highest shelf in the room.

    A few years ago, I was reading a news item in a scientific journal, can’t remember whether it was Nature or The Lancet? Anyways, there was a report from one of the researchers that, our voice i.e., when we speak the words, they don’t disappear after it is spoken, it stays in the space in this Universe. All we need is to find out the frequency of that wave (of our voice) and a gadget to receive those waves. It is just like the radio waves and the waves that we get from Satellite TV and the TV receiver receives it and reproduce it on the screen.

    Amazing isn’t it? This Universe is The Open Book !! If a Man can reproduce not only sound but pictures from a different continent, once again Allah Who is the Creator of this Universe can do that. That is why some of the people say by quoting from Al Hadith that on the Day of Judgement, if we lie by saying I did not do this then, our hands and feet and our tongue will give Shahadat that we went to such and such place and we took or did such and such thing or we said such and such thing. So, the lost voice that is wandering somewhere in the space will be heard and the place where we went, shall be shown to us as an image, so the lying and denying of our sins cannot remain obscured from Allah, because He knows everything.

  147. #147 by JAVED ALI KHAN (@badnoc) on July 13, 2012 - 4:09 PM

    Recently on twitter, one of the tweeps “AKC” a journo from PK said: “This is Pakistan, why do ppl say Allah Hafiz instead of Khuda Hafiz, Ramadan instead of Ramzan, Salaat instead of Namaaz?” I responded by asking him what is wrong with it? In fact Khuda is Persian for God but, Allah is Arabic and its more apt to use Allah’s name. Similarly Ramadan and Salaat are also Arabic words so there is nothing wrong and why is he feeling so offended by these words?

    My message was retweeted to a few people and I got engaged into a discussion with someone else “AIK” from the UK and she asked me, how about RAB? I responded by saying, Rab is Arabic and even in Quran it is mentioned Rab ul Alameen, Rab ul Mashriqain Va Rab ul Maghribain and in duas we say Rabbana (Aataiyna fi duniya….) so it is perfectly alright to even say Rab Rakkha. I thought the question was answered and c’est ca. But, after exchanging a few more tweets I realized that she was disagreeing with me by saying that some Pakistanis who have gone to the Middle East in the 80’s started using these Arabic words and this is like shunning history & culture b/c they think it makes them more Islamic but it doesn’t.

    IMO, its not a matter of more Islamic or less Islamic its just the habit that you develop and it comes naturally and spontaneously. I have lived in PK, Dxb and CA and I haven’t seen anyone objecting to Khudahafiz, Salaat or Ramadan until 2 days ago on twitter and that too from a Pakistani Muslim feeling so offended, and I was a bit shocked that why people raise objections on such trivial matters?

    I responded by saying that the Mughuls when they came to India used to speak Persian and because of them there was more Persian influence on our society, they changed the culture which Mohd Bin Qasim & others brought into Sindh much b4 the Moghuls. Now, Urdu in India as well as in Pakistan has changed a lot. There are so many words that are not used now, like “kya maajra hai?” Now, “Kya Chakkar hai?” Or, “Kya problem hai.” Just look at the signboards of govt. offices, I was shocked, and it took me a while to understand that Department of Forest is written in Urdu instead of Mohakma-e-Junglaat. “Diye-Rec-Tur Aaf FaiNaance” in Urdu? Why bother, write it in English then. The French here write, ASS. Director for Assistant also use the word ASS for Associate, Dr. Boissy et Ass.

    Anyways, change always happen whether we accept or not we cannot stop it, especially if the majority is using it. And, I mentioned that even in English language they are stuffing Sanskrit words like Guru, Mantra, Karma etc. and people not only accepted it but use it very often. Likewise the French started using English vocabulary like, Parking instead of Stationment, Bonne Fete Semaine is now nice week-end. The English use French words like à la carte instead of on the menu, bon appétit and bon voyage etc.

    So, why do people get offended when Arabic words are used instead of Farsi? Culture and history or heritage cannot be changed by a few words in any language, it is the people and their attitude that changes the culture. Indian Hindu culture especially before the partition was different and it changed in many ways now, their women also used to cover their head with sarees or with ghunghat now the Bollywoodians have gone to another extreme. Since 911 a lot of Muslim women all over the world have started wearing Hijaab whatever the reason may be, either its a retaliation or more awareness or, follow the joneses but, change is evident as we see it now.

    These are just examples of change and coming back to the same subject of Khuda Hafiz and Allah Hafiz, despite growing up in Dubai I STILL say Khuda Hafiz and sometimes I also say Allah Hafiz, it depends on whom I am talking to? Its only among Pakistanis that I say Khuda/Allah Hafiz whereas, when I am talking to Arabs I say, “MaSalama” or MaSalama il al Liqa’a which is equivalent to Au Revoir. And, I often say Au Revoir not only to French people but when I am talking to non-French speaking people.

    The discussion with the lady was, there are more than 3000 names of Allah (99 known to us in Quran) and may be Khuda is also one of the names of Allah? And, even the word Allah is pre-Islamic, yes it is pre-Islamic but, Allah chose Arabic language to reveal the Quran, if HE wanted to reveal it in Farsi, or any other language HE could have done that but, HE did not. We Urdu speaking people use the word Khuda because of Persian influence now accept it that there is more Arabic influence, for me personally its not a problem. But, I won’t be saying Khuda HO Akbar but Allah HO Akbar. You may find numerous copies of Quran in Persian language only but, I would prefer to read it in Arabic because that is the language in which Allah has revealed Quran.

    As regards Ramadan and Ramzan we have this SWAD or DWAD pronunciation problem since ages, I remember it from school times when we used to pray some ppl used to say WaladZawaleen and some used to say WaladDwaleen. Now, almost everyone says Dwaleen. Secondly in Arabic language if you change the zayre, zabar, pesh or Al-damma, Al-Kasara the meaning changes completely. It may be acceptable to many people when it is used in a day to day life but, when it comes to religion especially in translating Quran, you cannot do that.

    Besides, in Arabic, the basic source of all the forms of a verb is called the “root” of the verb or jazrul fail.The root is not a real word, rather it is a sequence of three consonants that can be found in all the words that are related to it. Most roots are composed of three letters, very few are of four or five letters The root can be easily obtained from the 3rd person masculine singular past form (the perfective) of the verb. The root is not a word; it is just a sequence of consonants. The consonants of the root are separated by different vowels in different words. They can also be separated by other extra consonants that do not belong to the root.The root is used to make all the forms of a verb. It is used to make nouns as well.

    I don’t mean to give a lecture on languages or religion and I am neither a linguist nor a clergyman I am just an ordinary person who believes in Allah, His Quran, His Rasul and His teachings. I think we have lost our patience and tolerance when dealing with people. I am not saying I like the Arab culture mainly because of Islam, the current bunch of new generation Arabs and their hypocrisy in dealing with non-Arabs is shameless, in fact I hate their behavior. They are not superior to any Ajami or non-Arab but, they display this superiority very openly and blatantly, especially in their own countries instead of calling them by an individual’s name they call them “A Hindi” or “Oye Bakistani”. And in discussions they say, Hindi Miskeen (meek) and Bakistani Jinjaal (trouble-maker) but, when they meet us here they call us brother, brother brother.

    Its a shame that some Pakistani youth love to imitate this new generation of Arabs with attitude, especially they admire their appearance and imitate by wearing an Utanga (silly) above the Tuqna (ankle) DishDash and a Gatra on top of their head and with a bushy beard. They have no morals, no mannerism, no morality, no respect for elders and yet they think they are the only perfect Muslims whereas, the rest of us are Kafir because we shave and we wear jeans, trousers, suits etc. This kinda culture needs to be shunned because Muslim identity is not by their appearance but by their actions with good deeds and Taqwa i.e., fear of Allah and obedience of Allah and, according to the Quran and the teachings of our Rasool Mohammad S.A.S. and the Al-hadith, which talks a lot about morality, honesty, sincerity, humility, love and compassion.

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